Insult my wife

[dstressman]

alot of what if's, how many times has anyone actually had someone just walk up and spit on them or someone their with ?

 

[6shootercarry]

alot of what if's, how many times has anyone actually had someone just walk up and spit on them or someone their with ?

I think the “point in time” with regards to the spitting question was in the case of a verbal argument in which the aggressor decides to escalate the situation by spitting.
I have to say that would get me to act. LEO would consider that assault…
There was a case in our town of some teenagers who were in front of a local convenience store and were swearing when customers were entering and leaving trying to start a fight.
My friend (LEO in town) told me that one... Why???
The topic being addressed here in this thread is: When insult happens (and you will least expect it) how will you react? Most of the folks that frequent this site will be armed. How do you handle it when you have a weapon on your hip that could save your life or bring you trouble like you have never reckoned? The intent in my opinion:
Just try to get people that read this (FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE THREAD PLEASE!!!!) to think “What would I do if faced with this "test from God”. Your immediate reaction could be your undoing or it could keep peace…

 

[kelcarry]

Spitting is assault but it is not a precursor to deadly intentions; it is not a reason for the presentation of a CCW but it is a reason to call LEO or get away from the situation if you are CC. All the "what ifs", even if they are repetitive, are interesting to read; each of them, although repetitive to a great degree, have little differences that add to my forum experience. If the repetitveness is getting you tired, there are plenty of other threads to exercise your CCW learning experience besides this long-running thread. Thanks guys for your input.

 

[BamaBoy]

The courts recognize "fighting words." If you say to someone, "Nice parking job, you stupid idiot," and he slugs you, he's in trouble. If you say, "Nice parking job, you stupid n****r," you have uttered "fighting words," and the situation is now very different. Spitting can fall into that category.

 

[JJFlash]

Ok, I'm still posting here even tho I said I was done; I'm weak, what can I say?

It occurs to me that we train for the "moment of truth"; at least I did at Frontsight. In this case, it's do or die: you're in imminent danger, you need to get the weapon out, and you need to effectively stop the threat. Assuming you "win" (using the term loosely), the BG's down (dead?), his weapon is right by his body, witnesses step forward to back up your story. This is the optimal scenario insofar as you're still living, no charges are being pressed and you are at ease in your mind that you did the right thing.

But life is rarely that black and white, is it? What if, what if, what if...it's endless. And we don't train for the "what ifs", do we? How do you do THAT? Doesn't appear necessary to fire any bullets, and fire bullets is what we do when we train.

In this case, guy insults your wife (for whatever reason), you ignore it. Guy spits on your wife. Who the hell is gonna ignore that? I'm not. Now, it's a problem, cause I'm carrying. How do you say or do ANYTHING when you're carrying without fear of escalation? Do we lose our right to verbally address a "wrong" because it may escalate?

I don't know...it seems sometimes that concealed carry is a lot more trouble than it's worth. You gotta be a marksman, a tactician, a diplomat, a lawyer...cause if you're not, you're hurt, dead, in jail, broke.

Right now, I'm thinking that Mainsail was right: the solution to escalation problems is prevention thru open carry. Is someone gonna spit on you or your wife if they SEE you're carrying? Odds are definitely lower. Maybe he's got a point...

 

[kelcarry]

Hey JJFlash: As you said in your last post--you're weak--guess what--so am I. I guess we are two old guys who have a good time discussing something we find to be very important. As to your comments--spitting is simple assault and the police should be handling it---not you, particularly if you are CC. In my heart, and I am not the calmest guy out there, I would like nothing better that shove the gun down the idiot's throat and ask him to spit on the gun, but it will only give me untold legal grief.

 

[JJFlash]

Hey JJFlash: As you said in your last post--you're weak--guess what--so am I. I guess we are two old guys who have a good time discussing something we find to be very important. As to your comments--spitting is simple assault and the police should be handling it---not you, particularly if you are CC. In my heart, and I am not the calmest guy out there, I would like nothing better that shove the gun down the idiot's throat and ask him to spit on the gun, but it will only give me untold legal grief.

You're right all across the board, Kelcarry. You know, I've carried off and on for almost 30 years. Like you, I have never even THOUGHT about pulling my weapon. Common sense goes a long way iin avoiding conflict (so does being 6'2'', 280). I generally get along with just about everybody, in a wide range of circles (outlaw bikers, cops, plumbers, college professors). So, I finally get some real training and now all I can think is that if you ever do pull this weapon, you're in for a ton of crap: legal, emotional, financial. So, I really do appreciate thinking and discussing these "what ifs"; it's gotta be done. Our younger and/or more agressive brothers need to take heed; using that weapon is about the LAST thing you want to do. Hopefully, given the legalities, we're all fast enough to use it when we need to, cause we aren't gonna have a lot of time to think about it. Oh yeah, and apparentlly, we need to be keeping our mouths shut and walking away from just about everything except dire threats. Gonna be tough for some of us.

 

[6shootercarry]

You're right all across the board, Kelcarry. You know, I've carried off and on for almost 30 years. Like you, I have never even THOUGHT about pulling my weapon. Common sense goes a long way iin avoiding conflict (so does being 6'2'', 280). I generally get along with just about everybody, in a wide range of circles (outlaw bikers, cops, plumbers, college professors). So, I finally get some real training and now all I can think is that if you ever do pull this weapon, you're in for a ton of crap: legal, emotional, financial. So, I really do appreciate thinking and discussing these "what ifs"; it's gotta be done. Our younger and/or more agressive brothers need to take heed; using that weapon is about the LAST thing you want to do. Hopefully, given the legalities, we're all fast enough to use it when we need to, cause we aren't gonna have a lot of time to think about it. Oh yeah, and apparentlly, we need to be keeping our mouths shut and walking away from just about everything except dire threats. Gonna be tough for some of us.

I figured you were gonna come back for one more... Made it a good one... Well said...

Freedom always comes with a cost...That's the truth...

 

[BamaBoy]

OK, guys and gals. Here's what the lawyers said about somebody insulting your wife, spitting on you, and so on.

When you are armed, it is your responsibility to try to de-escalate any situation. If somebody insults you (in such a way as to pick a fight), ignore it and leave the area. If somebody spits on you or your wife, get out of there and call the police. Since the person was obviously looking for violence and trying to goad you into confronting him, you will be better off not contributing in any way to an escalating situation. So retreat if possible. At this point, if the jerk now comes after you and eventually forces you to draw your weapon, you will look very good in court, and he will look very bad even if he is very dead.

However, the lawyers cautioned that even if you are in the right, if you end up drawing your weapon, the prosecutor (especially in states where the political climate is hostile to gun owners) will try to make out as if you were out there looking for trouble. They also said that juries cannot be trusted; many people today think that anybody who owns a gun must be some kind of evil monster. They asked whether you really want to spent $15,000 to prove yourself right. So when armed be as peaceful as possible. You enjoy carrying the power to counter a deadly threat, but the price is that you have to be as thick-skinned and composed as a police officer or other professional. (I guess umpiring all those years has given me practice.) When you are carrying, though you are not a police officer, you're also no longer just a regular citizen.

The lawyers emphasized that the political climate makes a big difference because there are so many gray areas in which there is simply no case law, and state laws vary widely. They said that in Alabama, nobody is even certain whether open carry is legal or not. They recommend not to do it, and the expert in firearms tactics chipped in that, strategically, you're much better off carrying concealed (he gave several examples of why).

The lawyers certainly were unequivocal that you should never answer police questions after an incident. Give your name and produce whatever ID they ask for, but do not answer any questions about what happened. Do not even say, "He came at me with an axe. I had to shoot him." Say that you cannot make any comment without your lawyer present. Yes, you will spend some time at the station, but they said that no one ever regretted invoking his right to remain silent.

It was interesting that the responses the lawyers' gave to most of the "what if" questions were tempered with caution that there are many, many factors that enter into deadly-force cases. They were always saying, "It depends on this, and if this, and if that." And the more examples they gave of cases they had defended, the more I thought, "I'm not touching that gun unless there's no other choice."

Sometime in the new year, the tactical expert is giving a course in how to handle various situations after you have decided that deadly force has actually become necessary. I think I'm going to sign up for it.

 

[JJFlash]

BamaBoy, You are to be commended for getting back on this, as you said you would. Thanks, man.

What a wealth of information...and a lot to think about.

 

[kelcarry]

hey bamaboy: I do not think, after reading your last post, that there is any further reason to contribute to this thread. You said it all and said it well. Sure any of us would love nothing better than to put our CCW down the idiot's throat and tell him to apologize but it will be the last time you do such a thiing; anyone who wants to argue over what you said had better take a good look at themselves and think twice about CC--if they do not, they will find nothing but grief, legal, and financial woes at the end of their tunnel.

 

[6shootercarry]

Bamaboy, Thank you for keeping to your word... That very action speaks volumes about character. Good info. So, for all who have read (the entire thread) and who have posted thoughts, both angry and peaceful, heed the advice and warnings by all and choose to use the tool wisely as it is just that, a tool. Not a magic shield or “Easy Button”. I hope that by the blessing of “God” none of us has to make that choice, and all die as old men and women in bed with light hearts and clear conscience…
Conscience - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[superdutydave]

It amazes me how many people on both sides don't realize the fact that no matter how right or badass etc. you think you are....there is most likely someone better or just plain meaner and/or crazier.

I am dumbfounded by the individuals that flip people off at the drop of a hat, or bump into someone without a thought or are just unbelievably rude to people they don't know. Most times they get away with it.....but there will be a time where they do it to the wrong person and the result can or will be traumatic to say the least.

Any one of those people can be a mad-dog killer, psychopath, mean sob or just a good guy having a really bad week and you end up being the straw breaking his back and causing him to snap draw and shoot.

I carry, I am a L.E.O., and I am polite to all and avoid any type of confrontation if at all humanly possible....not worth it unless your life or someone else’s is on the line. Insults/spit not worth it.

Dave

 

[RyanDro45]

Mine's pretty much the same, but I have the feeling that someday she's going to write a check that I may have to cash! I dread the day, but I fear it's coming. (Not when I'm carrying, though!)

Im right there with you guys but shes not my wife and she is on the way out. She is always starting S*** no matter where we are: Movies, Parents house, Formal dinner etc....Just crazy man...My new years resolution is to get healthy. Stress= not healthy... Crazy G/F= Stress.. Hmmm

 

[kelcarry]

Hey superdutydave: Glad to feel good about your comments. My son in law is an LEO and Army National Guard and has the personality of a pussy-cat. It is a shame that many of the posts on the LEO forum topic indicate that there are some LEOs out there who probably should not be LEOs and that many of the posts on the "show your CCWP or not to an LEO" illustrate some of the distrust that many have with the "system". Be safe superdutydave.

 

[superdutydave]

Kel

thanks for the comments.....guess some of it is age....been there seen it.....ego gets you in trouble more than anything else.

I am paid to be professional and I act accordingly....but regardless....you can be right and still be wrong...both physically and legally.

I for one have too much to loose not to error on the side of caution.....more need to do the same.

Just because you have a weapon doesn't mean you should use it...even if you are right.

Cheers

Dave

 

[RyanDro45]

True Normally you do have to have age but im only 23 and have already realized you HAVE to let things go. If you get into it with every idiot you encounter then your gonna be going to jail alot maybe worse. Plus when your out places where these encounters are most of the time your just trying to have fun anyways. I dont know why people wanna ruin it but thats just how some people are. So just walk away, walk away , walk away, untill you CAN NOT walk away anymore
HERES A LINK TO A VIDEO ABOUT THIS EXACT TOPIC...Watch it untill the end these guys get what they deserve
YouTube - Be careful who you mess with

 

[GabbyDP]

As a female, I thought some perspective would be of help. I agree with the majority of comments and opinions stated. Two scenarios I would like to introduce:

I'm walking down the road with a good friend of mine, also female, and my father is with us (we are heading to have breakfast). A guy sitting on the corner of the street calls out some disrespectful remarks. I can't recall exactly what was stated, something along the lines of "hey sexy", whistling, etc. I'm not sure if those were the kinds of remarks you were referring to, but in that instance it made more sense to walk away from the situation. Had the guy approached us, it obviously would have been a different story; but it's not worth a physical, or verbal argument for that matter. In my opinion, the best way to go about it is to walk away, remove your wife and yourself from the situation. As long as she is aware that should a physical issue arise, you would have the ability to protect her (as I'm more than sure she is aware of), I think that is often enough. For me, the only time that remarks being made are an issue is when I am walking alone and I feel that should he approach me, I am physically unable to defend myself. I'm sure wives' and girlfriends' are more than content acknowledging that should an issue arise that you would be able to defend her :yes4:

A scenario where I personally believe that it is justified to, approach the individual lets say: Granted, this shouldn't be happening at all, but seeing as it did, I'm going to take the opportunity to share my frustration. A friend of a very close friend of mine was at someone's house (whom she knew) having dinner and a few drinks, and a large group of people were there. She was also there with her boyfriend. Later on in the night she began to feel really sick (faint, nauseous, the like) and seeing as she had not had anything alcoholic to drink, this was out of the ordinary. Her boyfriend, who had had way too much to drink and was under no condition to drive, decided that he needed to get her somewhere safe as he was under the assumption that someone had drugged whatever she had been drinking. Being an overly intelligent young man (as so many are today) he decided to drive her back anyway. On the way home she became unconscious. After making it back (a miracle in itself) he called another friend of his to "look after her" seeing as he found the situation all so hilarious as she continued throwing up the remainder of the night. I suppose I have a question along with this scenario. After dumping the current boyfriend (that would be my first approach, other thoughts?), with a very good indication of who was responsible for drugging the girlfriend, how would you approach this matter? Would you approach the individual personally, or would you contact the police? I am very curious to hear some suggestions. I've spoken to some other students (I'm currently in college) with regard to this, and I've received a lot of responses along the lines of "That really sucks", "all part of college" and quite frankly I feel much more strongly towards this issue than a casual "it's all so unfortunate". Am I alone in this?

 

[JJFlash]

Gabby, here's maybe a response that you and others are gonna fault, but whatever. If that happened to my daughter and I knew definitely who the culprit was, I would consider that a serious assault on her and would react accordingly. In the heat of the moment, there very well could be serious physical consequences for the culprit as dealt out by me. If time has passed, and cooler heads have prevailed, a legal (vs. physical) response would occur. Not everyone will agree with this response but I ferociously love my children and woe betide anyone who seriously threatens them in this way. And make no mistake, this is a very serious situation.

 

[GabbyDP]

Gabby, here's maybe a response that you and others are gonna fault, but whatever. If that happened to my daughter and I knew definitely who the culprit was, I would consider that a serious assault on her and would react accordingly. In the heat of the moment, there very well could be serious physical consequences for the culprit as dealt out by me. If time has passed, and cooler heads have prevailed, a legal (vs. physical) response would occur. Not everyone will agree with this response but I ferociously love my children and woe betide anyone who seriously threatens them in this way. And make no mistake, this is a very serious situation.

I fear that I would have a similar response. I believe that I would have the ability to process the situation and contact the police first, provided that there was not a physical altercation with concern to the suspect and girlfriend. Not only have I lost any and all respect for the way her boyfriend handled the situation (he shouldn't have been behind the wheel, she really should have been brought to a hospital seeing as they didn't know what she had been drugged with and she was in and out of consciousness all night), but to me it's a major threat. His obvious intentions were to rape her. Fortunately her boyfriend was there to remove her from the situation, regardless of how poorly I feel about his other decisions, I am grateful that he was with her. I appreciate your concern. I'm pretty alarmed that other students don't share the same concern. For those who chose to attend parties and clubs on a regular basis seem to encounter this fairly frequently, maybe it's a matter of "becoming accustomed". I can only be thankful that I don't place myself in those situations!