what do you think about zimmerman

While what you say is exactly right, some consideration should also be given for the actions of Z leading up to the confrontation. There seems to be some agreement among all but the most racist and most ultra pro gun groups that Z should never have gotten out of his car. In addition it seems to me he made other really big mistakes. Mistakes + homicide = manslaughter in most cases that go to trial.

Where on God's green Earth do you get "racist" out of anything that's been said here? No one but you has made reference to race at all here.

And if being pro-law is synonymous with being "ultra-pro-gun," then guilty as charged. The law is what lays out the parameters for the legal use of firearms, not the analyst's affiliation with the NRA or any other pro-gun group. And I already burst your idiocy-laden conjecture bubble by informing you that I'm not even pro NRA, much less a member or otherwise affiliated with them.

I know everyone has a side in this they are cheering for. The trial will eventually end all that. A trial is all that the parents were asking for.

What do the parents' wishes have to do with taking this travesty to trial? You're advocating for a purely political and emotion-based crucifixion, not a trial. You ignore the law, count on the overly emotional considerations of the parents as justification for a kangaroo-court proceeding that has the potential to put a man who may well have not broken a single law behind bars for the rest of his life, and you expect to be taken seriously in this thread? Or anywhere else on this forum after some of the truly brainless tripe you have spewed since the second you arrived?

On the ignore list indeed. Buh-bye.

Blues
 

That sums up my thoughts on the Zimmerman case. Most known evidence points towards Zimmermans innocence.

This false racism that the media had created Is ludacris.
 
Ultimately, I believe that Zimmerman will plead to a Manslaughter charge.

I seriously doubt he's going to take a plea. Even if it was in his best interests to, he has already shown a predilection for demanding his side be heard when he took the stand in the bond hearing.

He has some areas of jeopardy that were realized by the original detective on the case.

This is true. So how's it going to go over with the jury when the SA that made the decision to overrule that detective's wish to bring charges is brought as a witness for the defense to counter whatever he has to say? I'd say the SA trumps the detective on that point.

Zimmerman does have a "history" of making unfavorable comments. On Myspace he used profanity laced, aggressive, language to communicate his feelings. His attorney O'Mara coomments as follows: "A statement posted on a Zimmerman defense site run by O’Mara concedes that the comments “will cast Mr. Zimmerman in a less-than-favorable light. O'Mara even concedes it could be used as evidence in the case. His statement says there will be no comment on the MySpace statements for that reason."

Martin has a web-presence history too, and there's at least one source out there that claims to have screen-capped some of his writings before FaceBook and/or his family and/or Corey scrubbed it literally out of existence that purports to show he knew of Zimmerman long before the events that led to his death, and had plans ahead of time to harass him. I can't authenticate the screen-cap, but surely O'Mara can with the help of the Court issuing subpoenas, and if it is authenticated to a jury's satisfaction, that's Check, and Check Mate for the Defense.

Even absent that questionable source though, Martin's social media activities don't put him in a particularly likable light either. That's probably a wash in the jury's eyes.

The case will be decided on Zimmerman leaving his car and his actions up to the altercation with Martin.

Absolutely false. Unless and until someone comes up with a statute that codifies the state viewing simply following someone as a threat to their well-being in and of itself, then only the altercation will be considered, not the decision to leave the car and follow. The only thing that could change that is if an unknown witness shows up at trial who says they saw or heard aggressive actions/words from Zimmerman. If all Corey can do is establish that there was some period of time that Zimmerman followed Martin, but that no interaction took place during that time, I doubt leaving the car or following will be more than an insignificant factoid in the trial. It definitely won't be an element she needs to establish any of the crimes he's charged with, unless some never-before-known statute magically appears from the State Archives basement.

If he had not left the car and waited for LEO's then there is a different ending.

I believe this is true. That doesn't, however, make it illegal to follow at a distance and observe someone you think is acting suspicious.

A jury will be presented the fact that Martin was pursued by an unknown aggressive acting person, in the dark and close to his home.

And where will the evidence to establish this so-called fact come from? The only person who we know about that heard the first words spoken between the two men is Martin's girlfriend, who says that Martin spoke the first words. She reported him saying something to the effect of, "You got a problem?" She also reported hearing the man he was talking to say, "No, I don't have a problem." Sounds real "aggressive" doesn't it though? So far, this young woman is the only publically-known source for who contacted whom first and in what manner. You really need to be able to distinguish between fact, probability, and pure conjecture.

He had every right to defend himself from bodily harm.

Not unless he was actually threatened with bodily harm he didn't. "No, I don't have a problem" doesn't come anywhere close to establishing such a basic threshold for the legal use of violent action on Martin's part, and does even less to suggest that Zimmerman initiated the violence.

There are poor quality cell phone recordings that depict someone asking for help. These could play a huge role in a jury trial.

Uh, yeah, there are the recordings. But there's also an eye-witness who puts Zimmerman ("...the guy on the bottom, who I believe had a red sweater on...") on the bottom and Martin, "The person who was on top, beating up the other guy." That witness was only feet away from the fight. He has "moderated" his version of events since the incident, but the "beating up the other guy" by Martin utterance was made less than 24 hours after the fight while it was as fresh as it was ever going to be in his mind.

As I said in a previous post, Martin's own father excluded Trayvon as the source of the voice screaming for help when the cops played the the tapes they had from different sources for him.

Whatever the outcome, it is not worth destroying your life over.

And let me guess.....Just like the Waffle House shooting, this is going to ruin Zimmerman's life because of the financial costs associated with using a gun, even in a legal case of self-defense, right? SGB posted the statute just a few posts back. I'd check on that if I were you.

Now, if you're past that, and are only referring to the potential for the psychological costs of killing another human being, you might be right. That's between Zimmerman, his doctors, his family support system and God. Some people's lives are ruined by that kind of cost, and some aren't. That's not what any of us need to determine though. We're talking about the legalities involved in this case, not the psychology of the aftermath.

Blues
 
I agree Zimmerman isn't the brightest bulb in the package but as the prosecutions "evidence" comes to light their case gets weaker and weaker. I strongly doubt this will even make it to a jury.

If a judge dismisses the case summarily, it could affect his/her re-election.

The smartest thing for a judge is to let the jury decide. Then they get the blame, not the judge.

Politics 101.
 
Finally we have an area of agreement :)

Although we seldom agree, I do appreciate the time and thought you put into many of your posts.

Ultimately, I believe that Zimmerman will plead to a Manslaughter charge. He has some areas of jeopardy that were realized by the original detective on the case.

Zimmerman does have a "history" of making unfavorable comments. On Myspace he used profanity laced, aggressive, language to communicate his feelings. His attorney O'Mara coomments as follows: "A statement posted on a Zimmerman defense site run by O’Mara concedes that the comments “will cast Mr. Zimmerman in a less-than-favorable light. O'Mara even concedes it could be used as evidence in the case. His statement says there will be no comment on the MySpace statements for that reason."

The case will be decided on Zimmerman leaving his car and his actions up to the altercation with Martin. If he had not left the car and waited for LEO's then there is a different ending. A jury will be presented the fact that Martin was pursued by an unknown aggressive acting person, in the dark and close to his home. He had every right to defend himself from bodily harm. There are poor quality cell phone recordings that depict someone asking for help. These could play a huge role in a jury trial.

Whatever the outcome, it is not worth destroying your life over.

Most of the professional commentators (trial attorneys and judges) seem to predict Z will cop to a plea of some kind.

That would be really disappointing to everybody though, the NRA-right, the NAACP-left, and everyone else with their popcorn and cocacola ready to watch it on tv.

I hope it goes to trial. I gots lotza popcorn ready fo it.

And then there is braggin rights. If I iz right and it comes out manslaughter, I can come back to these right wing rascals and say I done tole y'all so.

:D
 
shoobee i love ya but condo commandos are just doing what they feel is best in keeping their neighborhood safe. they used to question my guests often if they saw them whilst making their daily walks and not one of my friends disrespected them as obnoxious as commandos can be at times about.

I hope all the condo-commandos across the USA learn something from Zim v Martin --

- stay in yo car

- dont confront

- dont play make-believe cop

- dont pull yo piece (especially if yo iz a one-trick pony and the piece is yo only trick)
 
I hope all the condo-commandos across the USA learn something from Zim v Martin --

- stay in yo car=can't check out much in your community in a car as there are easements cars can't drive through like behind buildings and between them where crooks have easy access to apt units

- dont confront=our commandos always confronted peeps they didn't know as living in the community they would ask folks they didn't know as belonging in the area whose guest they were and if they couldn't prove it they were asked to leave and rightfully so as insurance don't cover non guests

- dont play make-believe cop=commandos job is to 'police' the area in other words watch to see if any suspicious characters are walking about or using the amenities that are for residents only the will ask non invited guests to leave and they should they do call police if necessary to remove a person being stubborn and not respecting the community

- dont pull yo piece (especially if yo iz a one-trick pony and the piece is yo only trick)
=i don't think our commandos carried but if they did they certainly have a right to defend themselves if necessary
 
Robby3006:317490 said:
The outlaw your a tool. This forum is so easy to troll its ******* funny. All you guys getting upset keep raging im laughing. And if you think i believe anything iv posted you gotta be ******* stupid im just here to get a rise out of a couple of you liberal loving pussys.


End of discussion.

Go ahead and make jokes about my spelling and see if i give a ****

This thread should be locked after this post. The member should also be banned. Forwarding it to Luke.
 
Blues, I retract my earlier statement....I am pretty satisfied of the SPD's accounts for the time I questioned.

I know everyone has a side in this they are cheering for.
I'm really not cheering for anyone.

This thread is just weird.

It isn't that uncommon for my opinion to be in the minority, but it is pretty uncommon for me to differ with people that I agree on pretty much everything else.

I guess that I should say here that I don't care very much for neighborhood watch people doing anything more than wander around the neighborhood showing that they are there and watching, or riding around in some kind of very conspicuous vehicle doing the same. And if there is trouble, they should do nothing other than call 911. I don't even know how much of a good idea it is for them to try to stop a life or death situation, though I'm pretty sure that I would. I would never want a neighborhood watch person to attempt to stop someone from breaking into my house, other than maybe pulling their car into my driveway and blowing the horn, AFTER they have called 911. Everything I have can be replaced, and I have homeowners' insurance. I would rather lose everything I have than have someone lose their life attempting to stop an armed burglar. And besides, the guy would probably not go past the front door because my four dogs would be raising holy hell when they heard his feet come within 20 feet of the house. And they would be just behind whichever door or window that he was outside of.

Probably, more accurately, I don't think very much of neighborhood watch period....unless they are well organized, and work very closely with the LEOs, mainly so the LEOs can keep an eye on them.

Zimmerman was a fool for exiting the car. Sure, he didn't expect TM to double back on him. But he had admitted that he thought he was in the presence of a BG. So he is going to get out of the car to beat the bushes or whatever looking for this guy who he just told the operator that he thought was up to no good. For that reason I feel that he and he alone created this whole unnecessary situation.

I dunno. Maybe I am too close to TM's side of the coin to see him as anything but the victim. I have a 16 y/o mixed (black/Caucasian) grandson that lives with me. He has probably 5 black friends that he hangs out with constantly. They spend hours wandering aimlessly around town usually with a cell phone glued to their ear, both alone and as a group. It is a very common thing for my grandson to walk the 250 or so yards alone to the convenience store, to buy....what else....Arizona iced tea and as often as not a bag of Skittles, $0.99 each. In the winter, he would be wearing a hoodie, surely with the hood up if it were raining.

No, my home is not a gated community, but a tiny town. And the Sheriff's department does know all of the kids, they all go to school, all are on the honor roll, and all but my grandson play varsity sports. (he suffered a pretty bad ligament tear injury last year and he decided not to any more) And I don't doubt that a urinalysis would probably find trace amounts of THC or THC COOH on most of them at any given time. (I'm kind of glad they didn't give them 38 years ago lol)

But George Zimmerman probably wouldn't know them.

Any one of them would likely run if being followed by someone they didn't know. I guess that the real question would be would they double-back to confront the guy. I really don't know. I do know that I probably would when I was that age, and ask him the exact same question TM asked Zimmerman. I was pretty bold at that age, especially when I wasn't breaking the law and wasn't afraid of being arrested.

I have known George Zimmermans my whole life. Guys that want to be cops but aren't for whatever reason. Usually due to having a record or being too fat. Some just didn't have the 'nads to go all the way, so they were just LEO groupies.

Usually they volunteered to be auxiliary deputies....pay 300-400 bucks for the uniform and hang out with the real thing...for no pay. They were not allowed to be armed or to confront anyone, because the county's insurance did not cover them as they would a real LEO. I think that the program went away when the state started requiring them to go to the police academy.

Anyway, I pray for George Zimmerman, and for the family of Trayvon Martin. Whatever the outcome of this, whoever was really at fault, the lives of two families are permanently changed for the worse, all because a kid decided to walk to the store.
 
I have been doing neighborhood watch for several decades now. In that time I have learned what works and what does not work.

I have done it armed, and unarmed, CCW, and OC, middle of the afternoon, and late at night.

In my experience Z made a lot of mistakes.

His first mistake, in his case, was patrolling alone. He was not cut out to do this kind of work alone.

His second mistake was patrolling around the dinner hour. Everyone is home around the dinner hour so very little crime ever takes place then. Criminals are not stupid.

His third mistake was patrolling in the rain. Criminals do not like to get wet, same as the rest of us. Whenever it rains the criminals are usually in a warm bar someplace drinking it up.

His fourth mistake was profiling T.M. just because of his clothing and race. This caused him to completely overlook the possibility that T.M. was indeed staying or residing in the neighborhood.

His fifth mistake he freely has already admitted, that he misjudged T.M.'s age and though T.M. was actually older, not realizing he was a juvenile instead.

His sixth mistake was getting out of his car, which served as a safe cocoon for him as it would for anyone else.

His seventh mistake was pursuing T.M. This is a violation of T.M.s privacy and civil liberties.

His eighth mistake was getting into a confrontation with T.M. without properly backing off and away. We don't know what started the fistfight, but I would be willing to bet T.M. would not have mixed it up with a polite person.

His nineth mistake was shooting center mass. Of course that is what all the NRA classes teach novices, and Z was a novice for sure. Still it was a huge mistake.

He probably made quite a few more mistakes that we still don't know of.

Lying to the judge about his financial resources was his most recent mistake.

It never ends with this guy.

Whenever your mistakes lead to the death of another it is normally adjudicated to be manslaughter. We will have to wait and see how the actual trial goes.

The police were initially told not to charge him. That cost their police chief his job. That was the second casualty in this drama.

I would not be surprised if Z's freedom and right to keep and bear arms becomes the final casualty.

Sorry I have to disagree with you on two points you made.
The hoodie wearing black guy who pulled a gun on me
Thursday night was walking in the rain.
He also wasn't the brightest crayon in the box. He didn't take the money under the till.
Until you have been on the wrong side of a gun, then you aren't going to agree with
profiling is what I understand from most people. But now I have done a 180 and I will
profile. It seems like most thugs like to wear hoodies. It would be a good thing if the
clothing industry stopped making those.
 
Sorry I have to disagree with you on two points you made.
The hoodie wearing black guy who pulled a gun on me
Thursday night was walking in the rain.
He also wasn't the brightest crayon in the box. He didn't take the money under the till.
Until you have been on the wrong side of a gun, then you aren't going to agree with
profiling is what I understand from most people. But now I have done a 180 and I will
profile. It seems like most thugs like to wear hoodies. It would be a good thing if the
clothing industry stopped making those.

The hoodie sweatshirt jackets are very fashionable these days.

And like Will Smith said in Men In Black, it be raining black people everywhere, including the suburbs.

It does not make sense to profile. In Z's case his urge to profile was driven by his prescription meds for his paranoia condition.

Neighborhood watch is supposed to watch. That's all.

Not stalk.

Not harass.

Not call-in to 911 based on on paranoid suspicions.

I have been on the other side of a gun btw. I took the gun away.
 
Shoobee:317703 said:
Sorry I have to disagree with you on two points you made.
The hoodie wearing black guy who pulled a gun on me
Thursday night was walking in the rain.
He also wasn't the brightest crayon in the box. He didn't take the money under the till.
Until you have been on the wrong side of a gun, then you aren't going to agree with
profiling is what I understand from most people. But now I have done a 180 and I will
profile. It seems like most thugs like to wear hoodies. It would be a good thing if the
clothing industry stopped making those.

The hoodie sweatshirt jackets are very fashionable these days.

And like Will Smith said in Men In Black, it be raining black people everywhere, including the suburbs.

It does not make sense to profile. In Z's case his urge to profile was driven by his prescription meds for his paranoia condition.

Neighborhood watch is supposed to watch. That's all.

Not stalk.

Not harass.

Not call-in to 911 based on on paranoid suspicions.

I have been on the other side of a gun btw. I took the gun away.

The Israeli airport security profiles, and they do so very efficiently and effectively. There is a place to profile. I do not believe GZ profiled based on the hoodie though, or the bag of skittles, but rather how TM was acting, hence the "he is acting very suspicious." No where, have I read, "He is dressed suspiciously."
 
Sorry I have to disagree with you on two points you made.
The hoodie wearing black guy who pulled a gun on me
Thursday night was walking in the rain.
He also wasn't the brightest crayon in the box. He didn't take the money under the till.
Until you have been on the wrong side of a gun, then you aren't going to agree with
profiling is what I understand from most people. But now I have done a 180 and I will
profile. It seems like most thugs like to wear hoodies. It would be a good thing if the
clothing industry stopped making those.



About a week after this Zimmerman/Martin thing blew up, I was out for a ride around town on the bike. As I was putt putt-ing down a small side street, I see these two guys coming around the corner where I was heading. As I started to slow down approaching the stop sign, these two mutts, and I do mean mutts, give me the "stinkeye". Came to a stop, looked back at them, and they were turned around walking backwards still stinkin' me up. I just laughed at them and took off. Neither of them looked to be 21. Both had baggy pants on, crotch to their knees. One was wearing a Bears jersey with a ballcap sideways and the other, a red hoodie.

My point isn't the encounter for I have already shared this story a while back in the forum. My point is actually this... If the race baiting hustlers and their sheep do not want people to think that everyone who dresses like that is a thug or criminal, then quit dressing and playing the part. The truth is, they want to do exactly that. They want to dress the part and play the part without consequence. These jackasses want to express their culture, then cry foul when it blows up in their face. The Cracker is in a no win situation.

superprincess, with all due respect, I agree 95% with your post. But to blame the hoodie, in my opinion, is no different than blaming the gun in any crime. Please reconsider. :smile:
 
First you post this...

I hope all the condo-commandos across the USA learn something from Zim v Martin --

- stay in yo car

- dont confront

- dont play make-believe cop

- dont pull yo piece (especially if yo iz a one-trick pony and the piece is yo only trick)

Then this...

The hoodie sweatshirt jackets are very fashionable these days.

And like Will Smith said in Men In Black, it be raining black people everywhere, including the suburbs.

It does not make sense to profile. In Z's case his urge to profile was driven by his prescription meds for his paranoia condition.

Neighborhood watch is supposed to watch. That's all.

Not stalk.

Not harass.

Not call-in to 911 based on on paranoid suspicions.

I have been on the other side of a gun btw. I took the gun away.

...and we are supposed to take you serious? :drag:
 
NYC profiles every minute of the day with their stop and frisk policy. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with the policy, but it is done all the time. This argument about TM being smaller, lighter and younger as a reason that GZ shouldn't have defended himself is bull. My son when he was growing up in his teen years was a 6 ft 170 lb slim kid. Looked like a defenseless wimp. Ask his buddy, a 6'7 270 lb player on the Jets what happened to him when he said the wrong thing about his sister.
 
NYC profiles every minute of the day with their stop and frisk policy. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with the policy, but it is done all the time. This argument about TM being smaller, lighter and younger as a reason that GZ shouldn't have defended himself is bull. My son when he was growing up in his teen years was a 6 ft 170 lb slim kid. Looked like a defenseless wimp. Ask his buddy, a 6'7 270 lb player on the Jets what happened to him when he said the wrong thing about his sister.

Happens everywhere all the time in fact. Profiling makes perfect sense. It's accurate and effective. The only people who do not like it are criminals, relatives of criminals, and the people who benefit from criminals (lawyers, politicians, and "other" race hustlers).
 
Sorry I have to disagree with you on two points you made.
The hoodie wearing black guy who pulled a gun on me
Thursday night was walking in the rain.

Sorry you got robbed. I don't think that the guy put on a hoodie and the hoodie made him decide to rob you. I would say the reason was you looked like an easy mark.

Until you have been on the wrong side of a gun, then you aren't going to agree with
profiling is what I understand from most people. But now I have done a 180 and I will
profile.

"Profiling" is just another term created by the race baiters to make bleeding hearts ashamed of being white. Oh, they may have gotten it from a LEO manual somewhere, but no one else used it before they discovered it. It is a BS argument...."profiling" is good police work by LEOs, and "being aware of your surroundings" in the civilian world.

Why would you spend all of your attention watching people who are least likely to commit a crime? Yeah, I know, it sounds "unfair". BS!!!!! Life isn't fair. If you are black or hispanic, and you don't like being singled out when you walk in a store or are walking down the street, get off your azz and clean up your race! If the entire good lawful citizen black community turned on black criminals, worked with LEOs, defended themselves, if the blacks that have gotten rich off of racism used their power and influence against black criminals, if they stopped protesting against profiling, the death penalty, etc, the lives of the people of an entire race in this country would be better. Racism and prejudice will never end, but would get infinitely better.

But when you have a president that among all of the other things he is, is also a race baiter, it ain't gonna happen. NO, it didn't start with him. But the situation has noticeably escalated since he began campaigning for president.

It seems like most thugs like to wear hoodies. It would be a good thing if the
clothing industry stopped making those.
I am a 53 year old white middle class man who has never been in trouble with the law. I have only had four tickets since I started driving in 1974.

I like to wear hoodies, and for the past couple of years, they are what I wear in lieu of a coat probably 75% of the winter.

I also work on the refrigerated side of a huge grocery warehouse. The warmest part is 58F, the coldest is -30F. There are about 400 employees that work on the "cold side", people of all ages and several ethnic backgrounds. I am fairly sure that every person owns multiple hoodies, I own six or seven. I have been wearing them since the mid 1980s, when I joined the US Army. Actually, my 79 year old dad often wears one when he goes walking.

Please stop and think how ridiculous your statement actually is.
 

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