what do you think about zimmerman

[fstroupe]

I wasn't going to put my .02 in, but this thread has gotten pretty wild.

What do I think about Zimmerman? Does it really matter what any of us think about Zimmerman?

I do not know all of the facts about what happened that night. None of us do. Hopefully the Jury will, but that is neither here nor there.

Really, I only care about one fact: "Neighborhood WATCH". Not paid security guard (armed or unarmed). Not LEO either on or off duty. Not even any training for either, just a weapons safety class to attempt to keep him from accidentally putting a bullet in his or someone else's head, and the fact that he wants to be a cop. Neither was he part of an organized watch, though that doesn't even matter. (I have a picture in my head of Death Wish 3, with Paul Kersey and his Wildey Magnum, and Rodriguez with his zip gun walking down the street)

Except in the case of someone's life being in immediate danger, does anyone really have any business getting in anyone else's face? So what if Trayvon wasn't supposed to be there? (which I assume that Zimmerman thought) As far as I know he was not threatening or harming anyone, which would be the only possible reason someone on a neighborhood watch would be justified to directly confront someone, gated community or not, organized watch or someone who takes it upon himself to "patrol" the neighborhood.

911 had been called. Cops were on the way. If Trayvon was up to no good, he was about to be confronted by the people who get paid to confront. Even if Trayvon was in the process of breaking into a house, or stealing a car, which as far as I know he wasn't, LEOs were coming.

So what if it was you instead of Trayvon? Has anyone really put themselves in his place?

You just walked to the store to pick up something (probably not Skittles and tea). Really doesn't matter what time of day or night, raining or not, wearing a hoodie or nothing but speedos (yuk). You notice some moron in a car following you. And though probably everyone here would say that it would not matter, let's say the guy was a different race than you. He's really following you. Like up your butt following you. (personally about this time I likely would be calling 911, or at least seriously considering it, and definitely thinking about the hours I have put in practicing with my sidearm for a situation exactly like this, my fight or flight part of the brain getting my system ready for whatever is about to happen)

The guy confronts you, either in or out of the car. He sounds like he has an attitude. Most everyone here has said that they wouldn't give direct answers to a LEO if they were in the right and minding their own business, so I know they aren't going to answer this guy yelling out of his car window. And most everyone here has some kind of attitude....myself included....so he probably is going to get some kind of smart-azz answer.

The guy gets out of his car and confronts you directly. No badge, no creds, just some Joe who has now invaded your space.

How many of us wouldn't by this time be fully prepared to pull out the sidearm we are carrying? I mean, do you really know this guy isn't here to harm YOU? He's yelling at you, wanting to know why you are here and what you are doing. (I assume that is what Zimmerman did after exiting the vehicle)

Then he gets into your face. Have you pulled your sidearm yet? If you haven't, why are you carrying one? This is the reason you got a carry card in the first place, to protect yourself from some moron who appears to be about to harm you.

I'd say at this point, if most of us were Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman would be lying on the ground with some holes in him. In my case, he probably would have two .45 ACP rounds somewhere in the vicinity of the center of his chest, and I'd be standing there really freaked out because I just killed another human being.

In my eyes, nothing else matters here, unless there is some glaring fact in the case that has never been released to the public, such as Treyvon reaching in Zimmerman's car window and yanking him from behind the wheel.

 

[Seeya]

@bluesstinger.
FL statues 776.041
If I'm reading it correctly, deadly force is not justifiable on someone escaping or if you provoked the initial confrontation

Do you know for a fact that those are the circumstanse's? Were you there? Assumptions please do not include other's in the first part of the word assumption.

 

[Seeya]

Newbie's & join date, Robby3006 5/11/2012, Shoobee 5/26/2012, NickFro 5/14/2012, this tells a story initself.

 

[SR40c]

Can sure tell which people in here are only getting their information from the left wing media. You people need to read the 186 page police report that was released last month. It's very redundant but doesn't take long at all to read. At the very least, or most, depending on your point of view, one with a little common sense would probably see that judgement should be withheld until after a trail.

There was nothing in those reports that indicated to me that Zimmerman was "an aggressor". Personally, I think Zimmerman is a moron, but even a moron has the right to protect them self.

 

[SGB]

I wasn't going to put my .02 in, but this thread has gotten pretty wild.

What do I think about Zimmerman? Does it really matter what any of us think about Zimmerman?

I do not know all of the facts about what happened that night. None of us do. Hopefully the Jury will, but that is neither here nor there.

Really, I only care about one fact: "Neighborhood WATCH". Not paid security guard (armed or unarmed). Not LEO either on or off duty. Not even any training for either, just a weapons safety class to attempt to keep him from accidentally putting a bullet in his or someone else's head, and the fact that he wants to be a cop. Neither was he part of an organized watch, though that doesn't even matter. (I have a picture in my head of Death Wish 3, with Paul Kersey and his Wildey Magnum, and Rodriguez with his zip gun walking down the street)

Except in the case of someone's life being in immediate danger, does anyone really have any business getting in anyone else's face? So what if Trayvon wasn't supposed to be there? (which I assume that Zimmerman thought) As far as I know he was not threatening or harming anyone, which would be the only possible reason someone on a neighborhood watch would be justified to directly confront someone, gated community or not, organized watch or someone who takes it upon himself to "patrol" the neighborhood.

911 had been called. Cops were on the way. If Trayvon was up to no good, he was about to be confronted by the people who get paid to confront. Even if Trayvon was in the process of breaking into a house, or stealing a car, which as far as I know he wasn't, LEOs were coming.

So what if it was you instead of Trayvon? Has anyone really put themselves in his place?

You just walked to the store to pick up something (probably not Skittles and tea). Really doesn't matter what time of day or night, raining or not, wearing a hoodie or nothing but speedos (yuk). You notice some moron in a car following you. And though probably everyone here would say that it would not matter, let's say the guy was a different race than you. He's really following you. Like up your butt following you. (personally about this time I likely would be calling 911, or at least seriously considering it, and definitely thinking about the hours I have put in practicing with my sidearm for a situation exactly like this, my fight or flight part of the brain getting my system ready for whatever is about to happen)

The guy confronts you, either in or out of the car. He sounds like he has an attitude. Most everyone here has said that they wouldn't give direct answers to a LEO if they were in the right and minding their own business, so I know they aren't going to answer this guy yelling out of his car window. And most everyone here has some kind of attitude....myself included....so he probably is going to get some kind of smart-azz answer.

The guy gets out of his car and confronts you directly. No badge, no creds, just some Joe who has now invaded your space.

How many of us wouldn't by this time be fully prepared to pull out the sidearm we are carrying? I mean, do you really know this guy isn't here to harm YOU? He's yelling at you, wanting to know why you are here and what you are doing. (I assume that is what Zimmerman did after exiting the vehicle)

Then he gets into your face. Have you pulled your sidearm yet? If you haven't, why are you carrying one? This is the reason you got a carry card in the first place, to protect yourself from some moron who appears to be about to harm you.

I'd say at this point, if most of us were Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman would be lying on the ground with some holes in him. In my case, he probably would have two .45 ACP rounds somewhere in the vicinity of the center of his chest, and I'd be standing there really freaked out because I just killed another human being.

In my eyes, nothing else matters here, unless there is some glaring fact in the case that has never been released to the public, such as Treyvon reaching in Zimmerman's car window and yanking him from behind the wheel.

Loads of conjecture that don't fit with the known facts ....... the police have already admitted under oath they have no evidence that Zimmerman assaulted Martin. Following someone while giving LE directions to intercept a person perceived as suspicious isn't a crime and anyone who would assault someone because of being followed is in the wrong morally and legally.

 

[SGB]

Newbie's & join date, Robby3006 5/11/2012, Shoobee 5/26/2012, NickFro 5/14/2012, this tells a story initself.

Troll heard .............. ?

 

[fstroupe]

Loads of conjecture that don't fit with the known facts ....... the police have already admitted under oath they have no evidence that Zimmerman assaulted Martin. Following someone while giving LE directions to intercept a person perceived as suspicious isn't a crime and anyone who would assault someone because of being followed is in the wrong morally and legally.

I don't think that I said anywhere that Zimmerman started the physical part of the confrontation. Following someone is one thing. Again, I have not heard that TM yanked Zimmerman out from behind the wheel. Zimmerman was out of the car for some reason. That is my issue.

I'm sure that you and Blues have had a long detailed discussion on this, so it is stupid for you and I to do the same.

I just ask you this....knowing what of the facts that you do, what would you have done if you were walking down the street and the same situation happened to you? (assuming that TM did not physically attack Zimmerman while in his car or immediately as he exited the car, which I'm sure you wouldn't do)

 

[SR40c]

If you are referring to me, I quit listening to any reports at all, left wing or otherwise.

I am not judging at all. I personally don't know or care if Zimmerman committed any crime as far as FL statute. The jury will obviously decide that.

I will admit that it is an assumption on my part that Zimmerman was an aggressor or appeared to be one. I have not heard that Trayvon yanked Zimmerman out of the car, nor immediately attacked him as he exited the car. IMO, if I was walking down the street and someone I didn't know jumped out of their car and confronted me, I would consider them an aggressor.

If your comments weren't directed towards me, just consider this further clarification of my position.

Actually, no. I was not referring to you specifically. You actually explain your position. The others that I was referring to simply regurgitate the same crap that the left wing media and race hustlers spew. We may not agree totally, but have no problem with what you posted.

 

[SGB]

I don't think that I said anywhere that Zimmerman started the physical part of the confrontation. Following someone is one thing. Again, I have not heard that TM yanked Zimmerman out from behind the wheel. Zimmerman was out of the car for some reason. That is my issue.

I'm sure that you and Blues have had a long detailed discussion on this, so it is stupid for you and I to do the same.

I just ask you this....knowing what of the facts that you do, what would you have done if you were walking down the street and the same situation happened to you?

Continue walking and maintain distance while I called 911 to report someone following me ........... instead of talking to my ex girlfriend.

 

[fstroupe]

Actually, no. I was not referring to you specifically. You actually explain your position. The others that I was referring to simply regurgitate the same crap that the left wing media and race hustlers spew. We may not agree totally, but have no problem with what you posted.

Yeah...we're stepping on each other...too quick on the draw lol. I actually deleted the post when I saw that it wasn't directed towards my post.

 

[SR40c]

Yeah...we're stepping on each other...too quick on the draw lol. I actually deleted the post when I saw that it wasn't directed towards my post.

Sometimes, I should be more specific. It's all good. Let the spirited debate continue. After all, this thing is a long way from over.

 

[stovepipe]

SGB you are an Instructor in Florida so you should be the best source to set me straight on Florida's SYG Law and have better information than those of us that don't even live in Florida.
From what I have been lead to understand part of the reason this law was made was to protect a victim from having to spend a gallizion dollars and losing everything they have in court costs and attorneys fees in a justifiable shooting,and this was to be determined by the LEO's.
The first report I heard on TV was the LEO's on the scene had ruled this as a justifiable shooting,if so would I be wrong in thinking that the Florida AG ,DA,Governor and Legislature are ignoring their own states law?And quite possibly only because of political pressure?
I haven't mentioned any names because I just want to know if I have any sort of understanding of what is going on with the law and I know you are not to shy to straighten me out and explain the way it is.

 

[S&W645]

SGB you are an Instructor in Florida so you should be the best source to set me straight on Florida's SYG Law and have better information than those of us that don't even live in Florida.
From what I have been lead to understand part of the reason this law was made was to protect a victim from having to spend a gallizion dollars and losing everything they have in court costs and attorneys fees in a justifiable shooting,and this was to be determined by the LEO's.
The first report I heard on TV was the LEO's on the scene had ruled this as a justifiable shooting,if so would I be wrong in thinking that the Florida AG ,DA,Governor and Legislature are ignoring their own states law?And quite possibly only because of political pressure?
I haven't mentioned any names because I just want to know if I have any sort of understanding of what is going on with the law and I know you are not to shy to straighten me out and explain the way it is.

The laws were written so that there were a number of places where the accused could be found in the right. The police are just one part of that process. The SA can refuse to charge is a second. The judge can refuse to try the case if they determine that the accused acted in self-defense. All before there even is a trial. The judge or jury in the trial can also find for the accused. The laws are written so that a person who has a right to defend themselves because they had a right to be there, don't have to try to figure out a way to escape first. And failing that ability, only then would be able to defend themselves. It puts the burden on the attacker, not the person attacked.

 

[smith714]

This case just proves that you are not innocent until proven guilty. Justice is supposed to be blind and balanced, but in this case she has blinders on. Angela cory just wants to crucify zimmerman for political gain.

 

[BluesStringer]

.....Snipped.....

In my eyes, nothing else matters here, unless there is some glaring fact in the case that has never been released to the public, such as Treyvon reaching in Zimmerman's car window and yanking him from behind the wheel.

I *think* I get where you're coming from here, fstroupe. Tell me if I have your bottom line right or not, OK? Bottom line is that the shooting happened because Zimmerman got out of the vehicle, right?

I guess I'll wait for you to answer that question before replying further, so as not to confuse that issue with something else that might be at your bottom line analysis.

I will say only this though. There's not a single eye or ear witness that puts Zimmerman in his vehicle when Martin became aware of him. They were both on foot for the duration of both of them being aware of each other* as far as anyone with first-hand or second-hand (Martin's girlfriend on the phone) knowledge has reported. That may or may not bode well for Zimmerman in some folks' minds, but we don't need to deal with hypotheticals about Martin yanking Zimmerman out from behind the wheel to analyze the facts that we do have in the context of how they relate to the relevant statutes.

Blues

*Edited for clarity. I replaced the phrase, "each of them being aware of the other" with "both of them being aware of each other." Minor change, but Zimmerman was in his vehicle when he became aware of Martin, but by the time that they were both aware of each other, he was out of the vehicle.

 

[NickFro]

Everybody's views on this case are assumptions. We don't know who was the initial aggressor, and we probably never will.

And who cares if someone's new to this forum? If you feel superior because you've been on a discussion website longer then someone else, that's pretty sad.

 

[BluesStringer]

Everybody's views on this case are assumptions. We don't know who was the initial aggressor, and we probably never will.

And who cares if someone's new to this forum? If you feel superior because you've been on a discussion website longer then someone else, that's pretty sad.

So can we take this as a sign that you've given up on trying to understand how the known facts comport with the relevant statutes? Bummer. You were so close.

You're right, it doesn't matter if someone is new here or not, generally-speaking. But if they're new and just come in acting like they know what they're talking about when they clearly don't, it tends to register with folks who have already weighed the issues involved against the law, and come to opinions based in knowledge rather than bias-driven conjecture as just trolling. I tried to give you a path to build credibility here, new or otherwise. So far, you have chosen another path. It's not necessarily too late though. Up to you, but if it were me, I'd continue doing some research. Link Removed

Blues

 

[BC1]

I don't of any poster who is in possession of all evidence, facts, witness statements, etc. Without that one can have an opinion but it's merely that. Early on I was of the opinion that Z committed some crime but was convinced by posters to withhold judgment as I, and all of us, really don't know what happened that evening. Judgment either way is impossible.

 

[The_Outlaw]

Thats a million doller question. I see alota posts about george zimmerman but do you think he was right in what he did? I say no he wasnt right. You do not take ur gun out in a fist fight.

I was not there that night, so I cannot answer the question with 100% certainty.

But I will tell you this, If someone physically attacked me, overpowered me and then proceeded to pound my skull into the pavement, I would most definately be in fear for my life and I would probably use my sidearm in self defense.

Plenty of people can kill you with just their bare hands, that's a fact.

 

[fstroupe]

Bottom line is that the shooting happened because Zimmerman got out of the vehicle, right?

Yeah, that's the bottom line. The rest of my rambling is my typical long drawn out way of saying IMO he had no business doing any more than keeping the guy in sight from a distance until the cops got there. Without knowing the rest of the details and the statutes, I don't consider myself qualified to do more than that.

I stuck in the deal about pulling Zimmerman out of the car because IMO that is pretty much the only reason Zimmerman had for being out of the car. He had been told not to follow, but I'm sure that he thought that he was helping the LEOs.

Though not one of us here would even know about this incident, Al Sharpton, the New Black Panthers, and the president turned this into something totally different from what the question should be. My personal questions are less about Zimmerman and more about the PD and their actions from the time of the 911 call to the time Police Chief Bill Lee submitted his resignation. (and not about why they did not arrest Zimmerman immediately)