Open carry confrontations

[UrbanArmed]

Because you just got off work and the bus don't stop in those neighborhoods after dark?

That's totally understandable. But for those who don't live in the inner cities, OC is not a problem. These blanket statements are nothing but rhetoric because the reality is everyone lives in different environments.

 

[SouthernBoy]

That's totally understandable. But for those who don't live in the inner cities, OC is not a problem. These blanket statements are nothing but rhetoric because the reality is everyone lives in different environments.

Precisely what I have written a number of times on other gun websites. What does or may take place in one state or county is no reflection of what might occur in another state or country. In my state, OC'ing is a no-brainer and rarely causes any concerns. Yes, you have the occasional MWAG call or comments, but more than likely those come from out-of-staters which we seem to have a multitude of here... probably due to our close proximity to Washington, DC.

I have OC'd everywhere from police stations to banks to restaurants which serve alcohol for consumption on the premise to our state legislators' offices to you name it. And only once in six years of doing this have I ever had a negative encounter. And that was from a customer in a McDonald's in 2009. He claimed he was a retired LEO but judging from his accent, he was not a native Virginian. Most likely from somewhere in the northeast. We just don't see any problems here in Virginia carrying openly.

 

[gejoslin]

Precisely what I have written a number of times on other gun websites. What does or may take place in one state or county is no reflection of what might occur in another state or country. In my state, OC'ing is a no-brainer and rarely causes any concerns. Yes, you have the occasional MWAG call or comments, but more than likely those come from out-of-staters which we seem to have a multitude of here... probably due to our close proximity to Washington, DC.

I have OC'd everywhere from police stations to banks to restaurants which serve alcohol for consumption on the premise to our state legislators' offices to you name it. And only once in six years of doing this have I ever had a negative encounter. And that was from a customer in a McDonald's in 2009. He claimed he was a retired LEO but judging from his accent, he was not a native Virginian. Most likely from somewhere in the northeast. We just don't see any problems here in Virginia carrying openly.

Color me jealous in Arkansas! We made many advances this year but no OC...YET!

 

[SouthernBoy]

Color me jealous in Arkansas! We made many advances this year but no OC...YET!

In Virginia, there are no laws respecting open carry which is why it is the normal, default/standard, mode of carry here.

 

[kwimby]

Do you fully support and celebrate both modes of carry and see it as a personal decision taken by the individual?

Of course! The problem is the never-ending supply of idiots not smart enough to make rational decisions. They fail to distinguinguish environmental nuances or appropriateness and/or seek to enjoin confrontation. Fools.


People living in fear tend to make bad choices. You can either recognize that society and our country is changing or not. Your signature clearly indicates this trait. Pull your head(s) out.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Of course! The problem is the never-ending supply of idiots not smart enough to make rational decisions. They fail to distinguinguish environmental nuances or appropriateness and/or seek to enjoin confrontation. Fools.


People living in fear tend to make bad choices. You can either recognize that society and our country is changing or not. Your signature clearly indicates this trait. Pull your head(s) out.

Oh boy, here we go with "rational" and "appropriateness." Why not throw in "common sense", "acceptable", "compromise", and "reasonable," while you are at it.

It's funny, you like to throw **** from your side of the yard into our yard, and it's not even the **** that you throw that bothers me, it's that those in your yard have failed to look around and see that in order for you guys to hurl your "politically correct" actions all the time, your yard has to be FULL of **** to begin with. But in the end, we all live in the same neighborhood, so while you think your neighbors are a never ending supply of idiots, you too are a never ending pain in the ass idiot to your neighbor. Gotta love the world we live in.

 

[Bikenut]

Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
And what your statement really shows is an anti open carry bias.

Well, at least you got that part right. I forgot to mention, OC also proffers others the opportunity to play with the OC'ers gun, as well.

Some may be interested only in the "confrontation" aspect. Some others, well that has already been clearly outlined for anyone wishing to observe the "facts."

Present actual facts with cites and/or links that support your negative statements concerning open carry... any of the negative statements you have made in this discussion (including the one above) and maybe that would lend some credibility to your statements.

Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
Do you fully support and celebrate both modes of carry and see it as a personal decision taken by the individual?

Of course! The problem is the never-ending supply of idiots not smart enough to make rational decisions. They fail to distinguinguish environmental nuances or appropriateness and/or seek to enjoin confrontation. Fools.


People living in fear tend to make bad choices. You can either recognize that society and our country is changing or not. Your signature clearly indicates this trait. Pull your head(s) out.

Seems to me it would be rather difficult to fully support both modes of carry if you admit to an anti open carry bias....

Let me see.... you have decided you are qualified to judge others to be not smart enough to make rational decisions because they don't distinguish environmental nuances or what is appropriate the way you think they should and/or seek confrontations because you don't think they should do that. And anyone who doesn't meet your criteria of what is "appropriate" are "fools".

So basically anyone who carries in a way you don't agree with for reasons you don't agree with in places you don't agree with... is a fool?

Edited to add:
When it comes to exercising a right, any right, in a manner that is legal what people think of how it's done, where it's done, why it's done, and whether or not who did it should have done it is immaterial.

Whether to legally open carry or not is an individual personal decision. However, if a person wants to present the premise that open carry is not wise or is dangerous or will negatively affect public opinion about the right to bear arms to have any validity or credibility.... then they should be prepared to offer actual facts supported by cites and/or links to support their argument.

 

[whodat2710]

Regarding "kwimby"; never mud wrestle with a pig...you both get dirty but the pig loves it.

 

[SouthernBoy]

Of course! The problem is the never-ending supply of idiots not smart enough to make rational decisions. They fail to distinguinguish environmental nuances or appropriateness and/or seek to enjoin confrontation. Fools.


People living in fear tend to make bad choices. You can either recognize that society and our country is changing or not. Your signature clearly indicates this trait. Pull your head(s) out.

"Your signature clearly indicates this trait."
I'm afraid I don't appreciate or understand your meaning with this one. My sig merely asks what one might choose between two options in a extreme encounter.

"Pull your head(s) out."
I know this one was not aimed at me so I am free to ignore.... right?

 

[kwimby]

We have the nicest yard in the neighborhood and biker nutcase is starting to sound like a broken record.

Of course neither of those things have anything more to do with the issue than the authors of the yard poop and fact beggar can muster. Stupid analogies and willful ignorance are words of the day in this thread.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Then perhaps you should bow out. Feel free to take your stupid analogies and willful ignorance with you.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[Gr8gunz]

I have been following this discussion for awhile and have come to the conclusion that Mr. Kwimby is a Harry Reid elitist who happens to CC a gun. He argues like a liberal ignoring facts and ducking any responsibility to present anything that will support his position. The only thing that matters is that HE doesn't like OC so therefore neither should you. It doesn't matter one bit that his reasons have zero basis in fact. Does that remind you of anyone???? Chucky Schumer, DI DI Feinstein and Joey Biden leap to the forefront for me.

 

[Firefighterchen]

We have the nicest yard in the neighborhood and biker nutcase is starting to sound like a broken record.

Of course neither of those things have anything more to do with the issue than the authors of the yard poop and fact beggar can muster. Stupid analogies and willful ignorance are words of the day in this thread.

Asinine comparison and willful retardation are the only characteristics I can see coming from your arguments. Ignorance would make sense if we ignored facts, but it seems it's only you who is ignoring facts or trying to get people misguided by articles you brought up to begin with.

Let's take a concealed carry incident and blame open carriers...you must have voted for Obama.

Your yard looks like a Brady bbq is going on, your record isn't broken, you forgot to plug it in and turn it on.

 

[Bikenut]

We have the nicest yard in the neighborhood and biker nutcase is starting to sound like a broken record.

Of course neither of those things have anything more to do with the issue than the authors of the yard poop and fact beggar can muster. Stupid analogies and willful ignorance are words of the day in this thread.

How about not attempting to use insults and ridicule to avoid providing cites and/or links to actual researchable facts that support your negative statements about open carry... and just provide some actual facts?

I mean... this is an opportunity to convince everyone here that your assessment of OC is the one true Holy Grail... and convince everyone here to either stop open carrying or never start open carrying... and all you have to do is avoid using insults and ridicule and back up your negative statements with cites and/or links to actual facts.

I respectfully wait to be enlightened...

 

[gunnerbob]

I don't remember if we've discussed this before but... are we sure that kwimby isn't shoobee? I know you guys remember that idiot!

You guys should skip on over the the Politics section, find the thread "Economic Collapse" and read the last few pages where kwimby tried to deny that anything was wrong in AmeriKa's economic world. He used the same tactic there that he's been using here... ignorance. He seems to really like being ignorant and I really enjoy laughing at him being ignorant... so it's a win-win for us all!

 

[tricolordad]

I don't remember if we've discussed this before but... are we sure that kwimby isn't shoobee? I know you guys remember that idiot!

You guys should skip on over the the Politics section, find the thread "Economic Collapse" and read the last few pages where kwimby tried to deny that anything was wrong in AmeriKa's economic world. He used the same tactic there that he's been using here... ignorance. He seems to really like being ignorant and I really enjoy laughing at him being ignorant... so it's a win-win for us all!

Knowlege bomb. :nhl_checking:

 

[Gr8gunz]

Do you fully support and celebrate both modes of carry and see it as a personal decision taken by the individual?

Of course! The problem is the never-ending supply of idiots not smart enough to make rational decisions. They fail to distinguinguish environmental nuances or appropriateness and/or seek to enjoin confrontation. Fools.

People living in fear tend to make bad choices. You can either recognize that society and our country is changing or not. Your signature clearly indicates this trait. Pull your head(s) out.

This just doesn't sound like support to me!

 

[Teufel]

I agree with you for the most part.

For those that do OC, and officers respond I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect to be ID'd and checked out given the current climate and series of events.

If you're good to go, you're good to go.

wmodavis, I like what you said about attitude determining outcome.

Of course there are some officers who will escalate situations beyond what they need to be at just as there are some idiots in every work place or group.

 

[gejoslin]

Veteran Arrested for 'Rudely Displaying' Gun

• 
• Todd Starnes

Apr 16, 2013
A decorated war veteran on a Boy Scout hike with his 15-year-old son was arrested alongside a Texas country road after a police officer accused him of “rudely displaying” a firearm.
Army Master Sgt. C.J. Grisham told Fox News he was illegally disarmed by members of the Temple Police Dept. - even though he held the proper permits to carry his weapons.
Grisham and his son were on a 10-mile hike in a rural area populated by wild boars and cougars. He was carrying an AR-15 rifle and a .45 caliber pistol.
He was charged with resisting arrest - even though video his son filmed of the incident clearly showed that Grisham did not resist arrest. Police later reduced the charges to interfering with a peace officer while performing a duty - a class B misdemeanor.
“I’m still frankly and honestly 100 percent confused about what I’m being charged with,” Grisham said.
Temple Police Link Removed that the Fort Hood soldier refused to hand of his weapon - leading to his arrest. However, the video shows that Grisham complied with their demands.
One of the officers told Grisham that anyone holding a gun is considered dangerous, according to a 15-minute video obtained by Fox News.
“In this day and age people are alarmed when they see someone with what you have,” one of the officers told a handcuffed Grisham. “They don’t care what the law is.”
At one point in the video Grisham asked the officers why they failed to ask to see his carry and conceal permit.
The video shows the arresting officer telling the Fort Hood soldier that he was "rudely displaying" the AR-15
<font color="#000000"><span style="font-family: arial">[video=youtube;A8r4MK3R4PI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=A8r4MK3R4PI[/video].
Grisham, who is a “huge Constitutionalist,” then asked the officer if he cared what the law is.
“The easy wrong would have been to surrender my rights and allow the cops to disarm me,” he said. “That’s the easy wrong to me. The hard right is putting ourselves on the line knowing that something could happen.”
Grisham told Fox News he plans on fighting the charges and suing the police department for what he considered to be an illegal arrest and violating his Constitutional rights.
“For the first time in my life, I had to sit in jail,” he said. “I’ve never been in jail -- never been accused of a crime. I was treated like a street thug.”
A pre-trial hearing has been set for May 29th.
Grisham, a well-known military blogger, is a decorated veteran of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. He’s served in the military for more than 18 years and was awarded the Bronze Star with Valor. But he came under fire within the military for a blog posting that was critical of President Obama. Columnist Michelle Malkin once wrote about Grisham's plight.
The master sergeant, his wife and their three children live on a farm in Temple -- about two miles from where he was arrested.
Grisham’s trouble with the law started in mid-March. His son Chris was working on one of the final merit badges he needed to become an Eagle Scout. Chris had chosen hiking.
Father and son grabbed their gear and headed out on a blustery Saturday morning to hike about 10 miles. They were midway through the trip when Grisham turned around and saw a police car.
“At that point I heard him tell us to hold on a second and he motioned for me and my son to come back,” Grisham said. “He didn’t have his lights on. Everything was calm and casual. He asked what we were doing.”
Grisham had his AR-15 slung around the front of his body -- a rifle he’s been using since he joined the military.
At some point the officer pulled his pistol on the father and son and grabbed Grisham’s AR-15.
“He slammed me onto the hood of the car,” he said. “I had my hands straight up and that’s when I saw our camera - and turned it on.”
For the next 15 minutes, Grisham’s son recorded the entire incident.
“I wanted to make sure that we had everything on film,” he said. “Everything that happened that day was manufactured by the police officer. We weren’t out there to make a statement. Our intention was to hike 10 miles and go home.”
By all indications, Grisham was arrested just because he was legally carrying his firearms.
And as bad as he was treated, Grisham said he is furious over how the police treated his son.
Chris followed his dad’s instructions to keep the videotape going -- even though it’s clear the incident took an emotional toll on the boy. As the officers put Grisham in the back of the car, the video picked up sounds of Chris crying.
The officers told Grisham they would take the boy home.
“I told him not to answer any questions,” Grisham said. “I told him not to answer a single question until his mother was there -- and she would answer the questions for him.”
But that’s not what happened.
Chris told Fox News that the police officer refused to let him out of the car until he answered a series of questions. The boy had not been arrested.
“The officer told me that I wasn’t getting out of the patrol car until I answered his questions,” Chris said. “He said I didn’t have a choice. I was scared.”
Grisham said his boy was traumatized by the incident.
“Every time he sees a police officer he has a panic attack,” he said. “That’s unfortunate because we always taught our kids to respect police officers. My wife and I are angry about it.”
He said he explained to his son that they did nothing wrong on that day.
“My son has his own copy of the Constitution,” Grisham said. “He understands his rights. He understands the concept of choosing the hard right over the easy wrong.”
Chris told Fox News that he looks up to his father -- and admires him for what he did on the side of that road.
“When I grow up, I want to be like him -- he inspires me,” the 15-year-old said.
Grisham said the events of last month have led him to question why he is still in the military.
“It doesn’t seem like our rights are being respected,” he said. “For me, it’s a difficult turning point. I wonder what it is that I’m fighting for. If our basic rights are being violated this way -- what is my purpose?”
And as Grisham awaits his court date, Chris is gearing up to start his Eagle Scout project. The teenager will be working on a local historic cemetery - repairing headstones and replacing signs.
But the young boy wonders what will happen to his dad.
“He didn't do anything wrong at all,” he said.
Veteran Arrested for 'Rudely Displaying' Gun - Todd Starnes - [page]

 

[Bikenut]

I agree with you for the most part.

For those that do OC, and officers respond I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect to be ID'd and checked out given the current climate and series of events.

If you're good to go, you're good to go.

wmodavis, I like what you said about attitude determining outcome.

Of course there are some officers who will escalate situations beyond what they need to be at just as there are some idiots in every work place or group.

And of course there will always be those folks who are willing to bend over and allow those in authority, the police, to demand they, the citizen, prove their innocence.

Why would it be "perfectly reasonable" to be required to provide ID for exercising a right in a legal manner? Any right? Any right at all? The fact that the right in question happens to involve a firearm should have no bearing on the fact that it is still a right being exercised in a legal manner.

How about folks think it is "reasonable" to expect to be ID'd if they are talking on the street corner.

How about folks think it is "reasonable" to expect to be ID'd if they want to pray before eating a meal at a restuarant.

Why would I have to expect it to be "reasonable" to identify myself to the police when I am exercising a right, any right.. any right at all whether it involves a firearm or not, in a perfectly legal activity?

How about folks think it is "reasonable" to expect to have to produce ID... as in "Papers please!"... no matter where they go for whatever reason they go there?

Where does it end? And exactly why does the fact that the right in question involves a firearm make it any different than any other rights that "we the people" have told "them the government" to keep their hands off in the Bill of Rights?

Never forget that the Bill of Rights is NOT a list of things the government "allows" the people to do .... but is a list of things that "we the people" have told "them the government" not to mess with.

I think it is high time folks understood that the police have no duty to protect anyone... no duty what so ever... none... zip... nada... the duty of the police is to show up and write a report before investigating and arresting the perpetrator. Protecting the victim is NOT part of that equation.

How about a link to an article from the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0

Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone

By LINDA GREENHOUSE
Published: June 28, 2005

WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.

The police have NO duty to protect!!!! None!!!! You, and I, and everyone, is on our own.... because the police do NOT have any duty to be our knights in shining armor.