what do I do?

[RPB]

A note on judging a book by it's cover and the "look" of the guy...
In College I rode a motorcycle and wore jeans and had a BIG beard and walked up to a car to ask what time it was, the guy in the car pulled a knife out ... not because he intended to attack, but because he was scared of me and had hoped to defend himself if I had bad intentions.

I decided to shave and change my look because I didn't want everyone scared of me.
After shaving and getting a haircut, I noticed while walking to classes or anywhere that LOTS of people were bumping into me all the time, something that never happened to me in years, because they all had been walking on the other side of the street I guess.

Anyway, many many years later I decided I was tired of people bumping into me, (almost like they were agressive bullies?) and later, I was also not real comfortable with some of today's aggressive teen gangs, so I grew my old "look" back .... now people don't bump into me, they leave me alone, and 100% of the "scary looking biker gang looking guys" now nod to me and some even compliment my beard etc, and those are guys who would have scared ME, except they are smiling and nodding and saying "nice accessories" to me.

I've seen feeble old men attacked while walking out of a bank, they "looked" like an "easy target" .... sometimes a scary looking guy is merely using HIS "look" as a preventative self-defense measure to avoid confrontation in the first place. (but is peaceful as a lamb)

I've never been in prison or hung out with motorcycle gangs, I don;t use drugs and I don't even drink at all, not even beer ... in fact my bike was a Honda Automatic Transmission and I drive a mini-Toyota, worked at a law firm for 25 years, was accepted to law school etc ...

My "look" was merely to avoid confrontation from REAL "bad guys"

Well, Maybe I shouldn't have told y'all this, now you'll push me off the sidewalk <grin>

.... Just pointing that out.

 

[The Dude]

not to read to much into ones image, or get too far off topic, but someones image can send mixed signals to people, especially this day and age. in my line of work, i go to many different homes and see many different people. about 70% of them do get the wrong vibe from me. but once they hear me open my mouth and actually start talking, they realize that im not a rude or disrespectful young punk thats out to harm them. i say sir and ma'am treat my customers with the highest respect and that def. plays an important role for my company. and just yesterday i scared a little old lady who was behind me when i was buying a pack of smokes that she stayed about 7ft back from me, so i turned around and initiated conversation to put her at ease. within seconds she closed the huge barrier that vibe was gone. but as far is this thread goes, just do what you feel comfortable with doing. everyone has different feelings about how to go about different scenarios.

 

[JJFlash]

OK, this is REALLY off-topic, but it might save someone some heartache, so here goes: If you ever do run into an "outlaw" MC, do NOT refer to them as members of a "gang". This is a real sore spot with one-percenters (look it up). MC stands for Motorcylce CLUB.

BTW, you ever get in a jam of some sort, and "outlaw" club members are around, they might be your best allies. There are many Patriots among these clubs whose membership includes a lot of vets and active-duty military. Treat 'em with respect and you get respect back in spades.

Told you this was way off-topic.

 

[kelcarry]

Hey JJ: Per your last post, I recently was on a cruise with 4000 passengers (Freedom of the Seas). Over 1500 of the passengers were part of a Harley club. Their idea of "formal night" was leather chaps. Guess what, they drank a lot, had a lot of tatoos (and that was the women) and were having a good time, and, in the process, raised over $100,000 for kidney dialysis units. Like you said, looks can be VERY deceiving and as I said, that guy coming toward you who you think may be a bad guy may, in fact, be a first class citizen or even an undercover LEO who is also be looking at you with suspicion as you reach into your pocket and show a "hint" of a firearm. It would seem that the prepopnderance of replies would seem to indicate that you try walking away in some fashion from a direct interraction with the guy (cross the street)---if he also crosses the street now we are in a different scenario. IMO, any talking on your part is not a good idea--it escalates the situation by having him respond as he gets closer to you. He still has every right to not only respond but continue to come closer to you--he has not done anything wrong except have the wrong look in your mind's eyes and you still have no right to even hint at a firearm.

 

[hollie1]

Its unlikely they want to pet the little doggie!
Make eye contact,
Call the law while,that way they can hear whats happening,
Crossing the street while watching them!
I'd have that weapon ready to use just don't show it,till needed!
If they are coming for you, drop the phone , Shoot the Thug!
Tell cops he was coming at ya & wouldn't answer what he wanted,or why he were focused on you!
When your in fear for your life,you have a right to protect it

 

[Ga9mm]

This is something a friend of mine told me about when she was in college. She went to a school in Brooklyn, NY. After class one night, someone started following her. She crossed a few streets, and moved a bit faster. Her tail followed suit. She said she wasn't where she could go inside somewhere, she had to keep walking. She took out her cell phone, called 911, and just held it in her hand. With her other hand she tried opening car doors, banging on them, doing anything and everything she could to set off car alarms. Police came by, saw the tail, questioned him, and ended up arresting him for two or three counts of rape that had occured in the previous weeks. That kind of thing goes to show - be aware of your environment, and take advantage of everything possible.

 

[gunsite]

Training teaches you how Assessing a situation enhances your ability to identify a Target/targets. Because your armed and chambered doesn't mean you should be fearless, the last thing your want to do is shoot someone, or have someone shoot you. A good strategy is avoidance, escape, and retreat if possible, as a last resort... you shoot.

The sooner you assess and identify, the sooner you can take action. If your walk down the street and its dark, and you see someone on your side of the street walking towards you at 100-200 feet away, cross to the other side of the street, then start assessing, don't wait till your distance closes.

 

[kelcarry]

Hey gunsite: Your second sentence in your last post says it all and I absolutely agree with it. IMO there are many posts that clearly suggest the mindset of some posters that are way to "macho" and, quite frankly, are scary. The very last thing you want to do in any situation is confront anybody, anything at anytime. In SC we have the "do not retreat" arm of our regs but it does not mean you just stand there waiting to blast away because the law says you can (in a way). Thanks for your continuing and very informative and sane comments throughout this forum.

 

[gunsite]

Hey gunsite: Your second sentence in your last post says it all and I absolutely agree with it. IMO there are many posts that clearly suggest the mindset of some posters that are way to "macho" and, quite frankly, are scary. The very last thing you want to do in any situation is confront anybody, anything at anytime. In SC we have the "do not retreat" arm of our regs but it does not mean you just stand there waiting to blast away because the law says you can (in a way). Thanks for your continuing and very informative and sane comments throughout this forum.

Thanks,
Training a private citizen... the key is, how to survive/prevent a confrontation, and how to react with deadly force.

 

[The Dude]

i dont avoid people just because i have a gun. i didnt do so before i started carrying nor would i do so now. like i said, if someone has a problem or an intent, then its going to be initiated regardless.

 

[JJFlash]

i dont avoid people just because i have a gun. i didnt do so before i started carrying nor would i do so now. like i said, if someone has a problem or an intent, then its going to be initiated regardless.

Yeah, but do you want it initiated from 40 feet away or 6 feet away? If the potential BG turns into the street as I do from 40 feet away, I have far more options than I do if he's 6 feet away and decides to engage with me...

Nobody's saying to "avoid people", what we're talking about is assessing potential threats.

 

[gunsite]

A city/suburban block is 300-500 feet for the sake of this scenario, the reason i would cross the street to the other side at my first glance of someone approaching me at 200 feet, or soon as possible because, if your target is up to NO GOOD, i want him/her to commit themselves as soon as possible.

Variables can always be thrown in here, but lets say.... its dark, no one around, it may be late at night, i want to assess a situation as soon as possible.

Your carrying, you cross the street to avoid your targets approach at 200 feet, and then he crosses to your side at 150 feet... now what... what do you do.

 

[MichealWhelan]

There is nothing better than distance and using our brain before our pistol. Instincts serve us well if we observe and not make assumptions. A hoodie, T-shirt, and a few tats do not make a bad person, just a bad sense of wardrobe. It is the actions :fie: that go with it that should make us really pay attention.

 

[Spartacus]

Hopefully if the situation goes south you will drop the "leash and the bag of dog do" because you have a potentially serious situation unfolding right before you. The last of your worries should be the dog.

I like the crossing the street idea (if you can), and if he follows you need to firmly ask questions and use verbal commands to stop the person, and figure out his intentions. IF you have time dial 911 at this point.

If you don't think that the 21 foot rule will allow you enough time to draw your weapon, how will you have enough time to call 911?

 

[kelcarry]

Hey Y'all: Well I just read the comment by the The Dude and is there anything else to be said that I did not say in my previous post. If someone cannot understand that the correct action to take is non-confrontation, instead of a mindset of "lets get it on" because it will happen regardless of whatever actions he takes---nothing more can be said except I wish him safety, good health, and never facing up to a real "what if"--eventually he will find himself in a heap of trouble with that kind of attitude. I apologize, Dude, if my words are taken in a personal way--they are meant to be a more general appreciation, IMO, of what this defensive carry and CC is all about.

 

[PX4storm]

This avoidance / appearance thing can go many different ways .......

First, my girlfriend says I have a very bold looking face, heck ... I just see a face that needs a shave in the morning ????

I used to wear my hair down to the middle of my back with a goatee, friends and family said the long hair made me appear softer and or more feminine ...... Whatever ! ! ! Then 8-years ago I was planning a two-week motorcycle trip down to Bryce, Zion, and the Grand Canyon's. I researched the weather in those areas for the end of August and decided to cut my hair very, very short due to the heat in those areas. Since then I have kept my short hair cut because it is so darn EZ to take care of. Now, friends and family say I have a Bad-Azz cop military look ... AGAIN ! whatever ! But I do notice people avoid me in the grocery store since I have been sporting this style, go figure ???

Designer names
Rips and stains
Shouldn't tell you who I am
Cause sometimes angels hide their wings
An' the Devil's dressed like a lamb
Yeah, The Clothes Don't Make The Man

 

[The Dude]

non takin. i grew up in a pretty bad side of detroit as a teenager and honestly dont really see how crossing the street is going solve a problem. but thats me. dogs are a pretty good judge of character as well. during my time in the marines i cant recall ever being instructed on taking such evasive measures, instead was trained to meet the opposition head on and also probe the area to gather any intel and determine the level of danger (if any) . i guess if my outlook on not crossing the street seems to macho for some then so be it. if your in fear for your life and shooting is last resort then it wont make a difference on what side of the street it occurs on.

i dont judge others by their looks nor would i consider them a possible threat based upon looks. thats what they call profiling. criminals come in too many shapes and forms now days to make an accusation based on looks alone. thats one reason why i would communicate (or at least make an attempt to do so) with the person. plus open carry, not concealed.

 

[JJFlash]

Hey, TD, I get where you're coming from as I grew up in East Baltimore. I was never the toughest nut on the block but I, too, learned about not showing weakness and such. But I'm not sure that's what we're talking about, here.

The OP stated that it was evening, he's walking his little pooch, and his alarm bells go off based on what he sees approaching him. This was his perceived potential threat and these were his alarm bells. Hey, maybe the OP is 5' 7" and looks like Mr. Rogers, I don't know. And if you have a perceived possible threat, all my defensive training says to avoid it if you can; confrontation is the last resort. So, we're saying, OK, if your alarm bells are going off, then do this or that.

Maybe one person approaching you (or me) on the sidewalk isn't perceived as a potential threat. Basically, I agree with you; unless the guy happens to be 7 feet tall and is swinging a machete, I'm not necessarily unduly alarmed. However, how might you personally react if it was a group of gangsta thugs? Perceive a possible threat? Cause I would. And then...oh, I don't know...I'd probably cross the street or something to get a further read on the situation. You can barrel on thru the middle of the gangster pack if you want to, but I'm not going to. Mrs. Flash likes her man in one piece, alive, and out of jail.

Oh, and I have no problem with profiling, not even a little bit. Just me.

Different strokes.

 

[The Dude]

im by no means a bad ass either. far from the toughest kid on the block but i see where you guys are coming from. basically what i was trying to get at in a nutshell is that after you pass by this stranger your back will be at him regardless, and it looks kinda shady when someone keeps looking over their shoulder expecting something to happen, it could attract some unwanted attention. and i def. agree of crossing the road if there is more than one person. if theres a group of these morons with their pants around their knees then i would want a dif. persepctive on this group as well. no shame in it.

 

[JJFlash]

It occurs to me that I probably shouldn't be picking on Mr. Rogers, either. Wasn't the guy a frickin' SEAL or something? There goes my profiling expertise, I guess. :laugh: