what do I do?

I indicated in the beginning, that I would travel to the middle of the street. If anything went down, it would be very visible.

I think keeping ones distance is the key.
In broad daylight the perp is going to wait till the last second to show his hand. The closer he gets to his potential target, the easier it will be.
The dog is worthless to say the least.
I am learning lots here.

FYI,
When Mr Rogers wore his sneakers, and sweater, he was invincible. Nobody would mug him.
 

If The Guy is Wearing a Long Sleeve "Hoodie" Type Shirt...How Do you SEE the "Prison Tattoos" and Do you EVEN KNOW What a prison tattoo is?
It Could Mean That he has Given UP the Life of Crime just as Easy as he is Still Very Active in the Crime Life. ...

(BTW) I have Several MC Related Tats from My Younger Days... The Meanings of Them are Well Documented.

Stay Safe... Get a Meaner Dog and You'll Feel Safe. Captain.
 
Hey Dude: Glad you accepted my apology and realize that I am just trying to make a point. Profiling, contrary to the idiot politicians, homeland security nitwits, and PC police makes perfect sense and is ingrained in all of us and is a basic thought process for our own self-protection. Even Jesse Jackson, that wonderful piece of racist garbage has said that he would certainly give some thought to "doing something" if he is faced with a couple of black guys with apparent attitude coming down a dark street toward him. Israeli's can't stop laughing when our dear airport people pick apart a 97 year old grandma as they waive thru a towelhead that looks like osama and has a passport with stops in Yemen. I may be repeating myself, but if I can avoid any confrontation by doing anything, I will do it and cannot for the life of me understand how anyone cannot agree with that thought when they are CC. That next step for them is going to change things for them in time in court and lots of attorney fees.That does not mean that everytime I see a tatooed, big lug I am going to cross streets, call 911, or somehow go into a state of panic---it means that my own personal indefinable warning lights will kind of tell me if something just is not right. I may be wrong sometimes, but I am 68 and have never been wrong in all those years living in NY/NJ--not exactly the crime free zone of the world.Just sayin. Peace Dude.
 
its all good man. im a very hard person to offend, both in real life and on the internet. :biggrin: ive had a few close calls but nothing worth crying home about. if i can i wont let it get to the point of drawing my gun unless i absolutley have to. i enjoy cirticism and hearing others point of view vs. my own. not everybody does though. thats just how i turned out i guess.
 
It occurs to me that I probably shouldn't be picking on Mr. Rogers, either. Wasn't the guy a frickin' SEAL or something? There goes my profiling expertise, I guess. :laugh:

i was "told" that he was a sniper in vietnam and has lots of tattoos wich is why you always see him in sweaters. dont know how true that is, but thats what "they" say. he always struck me as a wierdo. :sarcastic:
 
If The Guy is Wearing a Long Sleeve "Hoodie" Type Shirt...How Do you SEE the "Prison Tattoos" and Do you EVEN KNOW What a prison tattoo is?
It Could Mean That he has Given UP the Life of Crime just as Easy as he is Still Very Active in the Crime Life. ...

(BTW) I have Several MC Related Tats from My Younger Days... The Meanings of Them are Well Documented.

Stay Safe... Get a Meaner Dog and You'll Feel Safe. Captain.
Maybe the hoodie had the sleeves cut off. Its all hypathetical.
Yes, I have seen more prison tattoo's then i care to. The "ink" is made by the inmates. It lacks the quaity, and safety of the ink used at the tat shops.
 
We should have a contest.

Would you cross the street if this guy was walking toward you?

Post some pictures and such..:sarcastic:

Winner gets... Well... Nothing but the honorary title "Creepy looking character of the Year"...:laugh:

Lots of good advice here... That's what keeps me coming back...

Peace...
 
I am walking my friendly small dog. It is early evening. I am armed with a 5 shot revolver in a holster concealed under my jacket.
A questionable looking character is walking DIRECTLY toward me. He is making eye contact. He is physically larger, and many years younger. Prison tats cover his arms. He is wearing a long white t-shirt or a hooded garment.
You KNOW one, or all of the following is going to happen. You are about to be:
1. Asked for directions.
2. Pan handled.
3. Mugged.

What do I do?

The only thing I can think of is get in the middle of the street. I am not going to put my hand on my firearm, tipping him off to it's presence.

What do I do? Run? Change dogs? To late for that.
Display my Concealed Carry Badge, and yell "halt, or I will fire?"
What will i do?
Hypothetical situation. First, how do you know he's questionable? I make eye contact with everyone I see. If he's wearing a hoodie it doesn't make him a perp... and you wouldn't see his jailhouse tats. The answer is simple... very simple. AVOIDANCE! Cross the street. If he crosses with you, then cross back. Avoidance, deterrence, de-escalation first.

I hope the CCW badge thing was a joke.
 
Act alert and aware of your surroundings. While he is beyond reaching distance, make eye contact and say HELLO!! Let him know you are aware. Move further to one side and announce "the dog bites", like you are concerned for his safety, but what you are doing is putting distance between you and him. If he advances toward you then, he either wants dog bit or he's up to no good and then act according to the threat.
 
I'd say the reason it got dug out is it's a decent read and has some valid info. There is always someone new out to learn.

That being said, I'll toss my two cents in:
Do you have a voice? Use it and be honest.

When potential BG first gives you the 'bad vibe', as others have said, move away first if space and timing allow you to do so. Keep moving the whole time if possible naturally (you don't want to be a standing target if they come out with a handgun of their own).

If he moves with you or you don't have the space and time necessary to work with, put your weak hand up in a motion telling him to stop while saying the words "excuse me, STOP" loudly and clearly. The motion to stop is universal in all languages and even to the deaf.

Pay attention, if saying "excuse me" seems to break their stride, you can change STOP for "can I help you" or "do you need something" while continuing to motion for them to stop. The motion to stop and taking control of the verbal part of the contact, any normal thinking person is going to cease approaching.

But if that doesn't break their pace you continue motioning to stop with your weak hand as you turn your body with your weapon away from them as you draw it, keeping it behind you to prevent premature brandishing and stating "I have a gun, stop NOW" in an even louder and more commanding voice.

If that doesn't cause them to halt their approach, it's time to bring your gun up from your side and pause before planting a few in their center mass. How long to pause depends totally on the timing of the scenario among other things. 1.5 seconds distance at whatever speed they're moving should allow at least a doubletap to the center mass (more if timing allows). They may hit you, but it will be on the way down if your shot placement is worth a flying hoot and you use any decent self defense round. If they pull a knife or gun this of course changes at once. Someone coming at you with a knife needs taken out at about a 6 or 8 second range to allow you time to move so they don't fall into you with the knife. A gun; they go down the instant it is visible, before ever pointing it. Hidden hands after being warned that you have a gun and they're still moving in at you, at this point you assume they're going for their gun and should be concerned about them shooting through their pocket and react accordingly...

Naturally all of this relies on having enough time, but all of the above can happen as described in as little as 15 seconds, so you remove steps as needed to maintain your safety. You may not have time to do more than throw the weak hand up to hold them back while saying "STOP" and drawing one of your fastest draws ever and putting 4 or 5 shots in them while being tackled to the ground.

Either way I think honesty in life and death situations is critical. Be honest and speak up quick to those around you especially when someone makes you uneasy by potentially violating your space and you'll have no victims, only dead bad guys.

Quite a few states have passed castle doctrine/stand your ground laws (PA is the most recent in my mind) and anywhere you have a right to be you have a right to defend yourself. You don't need to move away, or flee in any way. You can simply stand your ground and prepare to defend yourself. If you are verbally telling someone to "stop" or you are going to defend yourself and their course of actions do not change, it is not brandishing to take that warning one step further and point your weapon at them.

ALTHOUGH, whatever you do, do NOT fire a warning shot. A warning shot has a high probability of stopping even those that won't stop simply having something that appears to be a gun pointed at them, and then you're in trouble for discharging a weapon in a city or near a structure or any other number of charges. Only fire your weapon into the bad guy, only after being sure he is a bad guy, and only stop firing once he stops having the potential to be a bad guy anymore...

This is a bad guy who ignored all the chances you attempted to give him, even thought you were bluffing or whatever in pointing your handgun at him and was still intent on whatever his planned actions were and you feared for your life to the point of firing your weapon. Now imagine he didn't think the gun was real until you fired a warning shot and it actually scares him enough to stop him for you to hold; once the police arrive he can claim you gave no warnings, simply pulled your handgun, fired a shot and illegally detained him. Really? You assumed he'd be honest about it? Best option in my mind is to ensure he's a bad guy and drop him dead so there is no conflicting stories... These types of predatory criminals are traditionally repeat offenders. Dropping them dead at the moment a need and opportunity arises prevents them from doing the same or worse than they had planned for you, to someone who is less prepared or less able.
 
I'd say the reason it got dug out is it's a decent read and has some valid info. There is always someone new out to learn.

Pay attention, if saying "excuse me" seems to break their stride, you can change STOP for "can I help you" or "do you need something" while continuing to motion for them to stop. The motion to stop and taking control of the verbal part of the contact, any normal thinking person is going to cease approaching.

But if that doesn't break their pace you continue motioning to stop with your weak hand as you turn your body with your weapon away from them as you draw it, keeping it behind you to prevent premature brandishing and stating "I have a gun, stop NOW" in an even louder and more commanding voice.
Had to stop there. You must NEVER engage a person of concern in conversation. Asking "can I help you" invites a response. The response is a guise of treachery an may provide an opportunity to move closer. Distance is your friend. Also, you have not been threatened to the point of drawing a weapon. Consider a brandishing/menacing charge if the guy is simply frantic looking for his dog or any other issue which may alter his perceived behavior.

Avoidance. Period. Cross the street. If he continues to folow then verbal warnings are in order... LOUD! Reserve the gun for when the threat is so significant that it's worth ruining your life over.
 
Is there something wrong with just talking to the person? I think if someone were making me uncomfortable, and I crossed the street or took other avoidance measures, I would then stop, look right at them and say "You are making me uncomfortable" then judge my reaction based on theirs. If I still felt threatened, I would simply call 911 and state where I was, that I there was a questionable character trailing me, and, depending on my gut feeling, let the dispatcher, and therefore the menacing guy, know that I was armed.
 
Had to stop there. You must NEVER engage a person of concern in conversation. Asking "can I help you" invites a response. The response is a guise of treachery an may provide an opportunity to move closer. Distance is your friend. Also, you have not been threatened to the point of drawing a weapon. Consider a brandishing/menacing charge if the guy is simply frantic looking for his dog or any other issue which may alter his perceived behavior.

Avoidance. Period. Cross the street. If he continues to folow then verbal warnings are in order... LOUD! Reserve the gun for when the threat is so significant that it's worth ruining your life over.
Parrot much?

That is 100% exactly as I had stated, if given the time to move, do so.

Taking control of the contact situation both verbally and through your physical movements as quickly as possible is a must if they are making you uncomfortable and the chance of an attack is steadily increasing. Sooner you take the actions needed to take control of the situation, the more distance there is between you and the potential BG, not to mention it puts them into a reactionary mode where they must react to you in a manner in which was unplanned for them. The manner in which they react most likely will provide you with the indicators of whether it is a life and death situation or not.

Again, if you read what I said, "can I help you" only replaced "STOP" if the first words "excuse me" seemed to break the stride of their approach. You are still motioning them to stop and stay back. If they're not stopping when you motion them to stop approaching and say "excuse me" you finish the sentence with the word "STOP". If at that point they still haven't stopped, it is time to have your weapon in hand as you continue to assess the situation (not pointing it at them unless an attack is imminent and that's all the time you have).

To be brandishing, you need to have your weapon visible to the party in question in some form of threatening manner. As I stated, you should turn your strong side away and remove your weapon from the holster and keep it concealed behind you while assessing the situation, this is not brandishing it is being prepared. Again, if you read what I stated, the gun comes out at the point of the first warnings not being acknowledged and the party in question is still bearing down on you in a threatening manner.

Menacing is a threat of violence. You are not threatening violence, you are warning that you will defend yourself against any acts of violence. At this point of the contact, menacing is what they are doing by not yielding their approach.

Of course you're from NY and that's a whole other world up there. Normal thinking doesn't apply.

Is there something wrong with just talking to the person? I think if someone were making me uncomfortable, and I crossed the street or took other avoidance measures, I would then stop, look right at them and say "You are making me uncomfortable" then judge my reaction based on theirs. If I still felt threatened, I would simply call 911 and state where I was, that I there was a questionable character trailing me, and, depending on my gut feeling, let the dispatcher, and therefore the menacing guy, know that I was armed.

That's exactly what you should do. Honesty is the best policy. If I have a probelm with you, I'm going to say so; then the problem isn't mine anymore, it's your's. If you are encroaching into my space, I'm going to tell you about it and what remedies I'm willing to followup with. It is your decision how we proceed from that point.

If someone is following you or approaching on you rapidly and avoidance isn't possible, the best thing you can do is throw their thought patterns off and put them into a reactionary mode and it is best to do so at the greatest distance possible. How they react is going to be your biggest indicator of how to conduct yourself.
 
In most locations it's not considered brandishing if you display your firearm in order to ward off a threat. You may want to check your local statutes.

I would cross the street, if he continues to approach you ask him how you can help him. If there is no response you advise him to stop. If there is still no response you get ready to draw.
 
Parrot much?

Again, if you read what I said, "can I help you" only replaced "STOP" if the first words "excuse me" seemed to break the stride of their approach. You are still motioning them to stop and stay back. If they're not stopping when you motion them to stop approaching and say "excuse me" you finish the sentence with the word "STOP". If at that point they still haven't stopped, it is time to have your weapon in hand as you continue to assess the situation (not pointing it at them unless an attack is imminent and that's all the time you have).

To be brandishing, you need to have your weapon visible to the party in question in some form of threatening manner. As I stated, you should turn your strong side away and remove your weapon from the holster and keep it concealed behind you while assessing the situation, this is not brandishing it is being prepared. Again, if you read what I stated, the gun comes out at the point of the first warnings not being acknowledged and the party in question is still bearing down on you in a threatening manner.

Menacing is a threat of violence. You are not threatening violence, you are warning that you will defend yourself against any acts of violence. At this point of the contact, menacing is what they are doing by not yielding their approach.

Of course you're from NY and that's a whole other world up there. Normal thinking doesn't apply.
A little touchy? I usually don't flame someone but let's straighten you out right now.

First, I've been teaching this stuff to police, private bodyguards, homeland security, at the U.S. Military Academy, with SWAT teams and in various military and government contractor applications for decades. I've trained at the top facilities and have been doing it since most posters still had zits.

Second, NO training academy will tell you to ask the person a question; you are taught to NEVER converse with the goblin... NEVER. Every defensive course from the top schools will advise the first action is avoidance. If you can't avoid or deter then a very loud direct command to stop is issued. If that person fails to stop you do not draw your gun, you move & retreat; it's less costly than paying an attorney $100K. Drawing a gun at that point is extremely dangerous and stupid. What if the person is deaf?

When we talk about brandishing the actual crime is menacing and it is based on PERCEIVED threat. All you need to do is reach back and put your hand on that gun and the charge may apply. Your command to STOP doesn't have to be obeyed by anyone. If you're walking toward me and should command me to STOP I'll ignore you and walk past. No one commands me, ever. Who is this person telling me to STOP? Let them go to hell. Any action as I walk past would be considered a direct, imminent, unprovoked threat and appropriate defensive action would commence.

You need some serious training to avoid making a serious mistake. this line of thinking is way off-base. This is what career instructors refer to as "Dangerous Man Syndrome." People "think" they know what they're doing. They "think" they know the law and they "think" they understand the financial and legal aftermath.

Third... now for NY. I'll lay my CCW against yours in a heartbeat. No restrictions, concealed carry, permit good for life - no renewals, no limit on handgun purchases, no training requirement codified into law (other than three counties), no laws stopping the carry in a bar, restaurant, bank, hospital, mall, public transportation, municipal property, car, etc. The only place restricted by law is a school. I read posts on USA Carry from people in "gun friendly" states who can't carry on a bus or into a restaurant. Even Texas and Florida require renewal. Absolutely rediculous.

NYS has about a 9% CCW demographic. Their are 34 houses on my 4-mile road. 29 have a CCW. The issues I mention have nothing to do with NY. If you don't like NY... stay out. But don't ever confuse NY State with that foreign country called NY City. I walk around armed and unmolested by laws.

Next time a little more tact. A rebuttal is expected... but not an insult.
 
First, I've been teaching this stuff to police, private bodyguards, homeland security, at the U.S. Military Academy, with SWAT teams and in various military and government contractor applications for decades. I've trained at the top facilities and have been doing it since most posters still had zits.

Indeed those are nice qualifications, I advise some behavioral sciences they make a great addition. Anything at all that you can do to take control and change the course of the contact and forcing them into a response mode allows you to better assess the situation, whether that change in the course of the contact is to physically avoid their path by crossing the street or speak up or whatever you can do.

Second, NO training academy will tell you to ask the person a question; you are taught to NEVER converse with the goblin... NEVER. Every defensive course from the top schools will advise the first action is avoidance. If you can't avoid or deter then a very loud direct command to stop is issued. If that person fails to stop you do not draw your gun, you move & retreat; it's less costly than paying an attorney $100K. Drawing a gun at that point is extremely dangerous and stupid. What if the person is deaf?

I've not been to every single training acadamy out there, so I can't speak to all of them. I'm not saying hold a conversation, I'm saying after avoidance techniques have failed and the person is still bearing down on you to command them both through voice and visible motion of your weak hand to stop (which addresses if they are deaf, I already brought that up). If that doesn't stop them and they're still coming at you in what you perceive to be a threatening manner, I think you should be turning the side of your body you carry on away from them and at a minimum preparing to draw it. Whether that preparation is to just think of which shirt you're wearing or to actually start following through on the draw depends totally 100% on the situation. Some situations progress faster than others.

When we talk about brandishing the actual crime is menacing and it is based on PERCEIVED threat. All you need to do is reach back and put your hand on that gun and the charge may apply. Your command to STOP doesn't have to be obeyed by anyone. If you're walking toward me and should command me to STOP I'll ignore you and walk past. No one commands me, ever. Who is this person telling me to STOP? Let them go to hell. Any action as I walk past would be considered a direct, imminent, unprovoked threat and appropriate defensive action would commence.

Here you seem to be reversing the situation, the person following throughout the avoidance tactics with crossing the street and so on is the one doing the menacing. The one commanding the other to stop is the one being followed to an excessive degree of persistance and is being "menaced". If you were walking along and your path required you to follow someone, speed up when they do, cross the street when they do, and they finally turn and tell you to stop and you keep walking up on them in any manner that could be thought of as threatening, you sir are asking to be shot. Agreed that if given no reason to place my hand on my sidearm, it would be menacing, but at the point I'm saying your hand goes on the gun, you've already perceived that you are the one being menaced and are simply preparing to ensure it proceeds no farther than that perception.

You need some serious training to avoid making a serious mistake. this line of thinking is way off-base. This is what career instructors refer to as "Dangerous Man Syndrome." People "think" they know what they're doing. They "think" they know the law and they "think" they understand the financial and legal aftermath.

I've had what I think has been quality training myself, but I consider my life to be one big training class and am always open to learning more and having spirited debate. If speaking up to someone bearing down on you in what you think is a threatening manner is such a bad thing, give us some reasons that can be discussed or counter the point that I have made to it's benefit. You stated that gives them the opportunity to continue approaching, they were doing that even with you trying to physically avoid them anyway, so I don't see a change... All men are dangerous given the right circumstances, it is up to each of us to assess the situations around us as best we can and react accordingly. Anything at all within your legal ability to do to take control of a situation and provide you with more variables for analysis, raises your situational awareness and provides more indicators as to the person's intentions.

Third... now for NY. I'll lay my CCW against yours in a heartbeat. No restrictions, concealed carry, permit good for life - no renewals, no limit on handgun purchases, no training requirement codified into law (other than three counties), no laws stopping the carry in a bar, restaurant, bank, hospital, mall, public transportation, municipal property, car, etc. The only place restricted by law is a school. I read posts on USA Carry from people in "gun friendly" states who can't carry on a bus or into a restaurant. Even Texas and Florida require renewal. Absolutely rediculous.

NYS has about a 9% CCW demographic. Their are 34 houses on my 4-mile road. 29 have a CCW. The issues I mention have nothing to do with NY. If you don't like NY... stay out. But don't ever confuse NY State with that foreign country called NY City. I walk around armed and unmolested by laws.

Next time a little more tact. A rebuttal is expected... but not an insult.

Confusing NYC and NYC isn't hard the farther away you are because the closer you get the weirder things get, but the same can be said about Cali too. :D Happy your rights are well off there, I too can carry anywhere except federal buildings, schools, court houses, and any no-firearms signs be damned (they carry no weight of law here).
 

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