Walmart - LEO Encounter

[Deanimator]

No I am not working in those crap cities. And I would appreciate you not judging me before you have even met me, and long before I have even got a badge. And by the way, everyone is dangerous or has the potential to be.

It doesn't matter where you live.

That badge and the powers which go with it make you dangerous to any citizen. And that danger is VASTLY greater than that posed by any generic private sector criminal. See my other post. If you decide to commit a crime against a citizen, you do it with the presumption of veracity and considerable power to conceal your criminal acts. And if that citizen defends himself from you, it will be HE who has a FAR greater risk of prosecution than you EVER will. Ever heard the name Katherine Johnston?

You may actualize that danger or not, but it's there nonetheless.

 

[Deserteagle]

It doesn't matter where you live.

That badge and the powers which go with it make you dangerous to any citizen. And that danger is VASTLY greater than that posed by any generic private sector criminal. See my other post. If you decide to commit a crime against a citizen, you do it with the presumption of veracity and considerable power to conceal your criminal acts. And if that citizen defends himself from you, it will be HE who has a FAR greater risk of prosecution than you EVER will. Ever heard the name Katherine Johnston?

You may actualize that danger or not, but it's there nonetheless.

Having a badge doesnt make one dangerous. If a police officer is a dangerous person, they were that way before they got a badge.

"Private sector criminals" kill more innocent people every year than do police. Criminals and ordinary people without badges steal, rob, destroy, murder, rape, burglarize, etc more than the police do. If I were you, I would be more afraid of the people around you than the police.

 

[NCIC105]

It doesn't matter where you live.

That badge and the powers which go with it make you dangerous to any citizen. And that danger is VASTLY greater than that posed by any generic private sector criminal. See my other post. If you decide to commit a crime against a citizen, you do it with the presumption of veracity and considerable power to conceal your criminal acts. And if that citizen defends himself from you, it will be HE who has a FAR greater risk of prosecution than you EVER will. Ever heard the name Katherine Johnston?

You may actualize that danger or not, but it's there nonetheless.

I'm sure you will find very few if any police officer that will rob you! Can not be said for criminals..It sounds like you may have been caught on the other side of the line and it left a bitter taste..

 

[Deanimator]

I'm sure you will find very few if any police officer that will rob you! Can not be said for criminals..It sounds like you may have been caught on the other side of the line and it left a bitter taste..

The law enforcement profession provides incredible opportunities for the enterprising, unscrupulous and sociopathic to wreak incredible harm.

Apparently you've never heard of Katherine Johnston, the Danziger Bridge murders or Jerry Finnegan and "S.O.S."

It sounds like my words struck very close to home and the only reaction you can come up with is to accuse me of being a criminal... without a shred of proof. I have just as much basis to accuse you of being on the take... or worse.

 

[Deanimator]

Having a badge doesnt make one dangerous.

Having the power that goes with the badge makes one EXCEPTIONALLY dangerous.

You could ask Katherine Johnston about that... if she weren't dead.

 

[NCIC105]

The law enforcement profession provides incredible opportunities for the enterprising, unscrupulous and sociopathic to wreak incredible harm.

Apparently, you've never heard of Katherine Johnston, the Danziger Bridge murders or Jerry Finnegan and "S.O.S."[end quote]

It would take a lot more to hit my nerve, as I have no dog in your fight. Your general assertion says's plenty. Can any appointed person abuse power... Well look at your President, Your Governors, ext...ect....Jim Jones abused his power...You list four examples...how many nore do you think others could give on the other side?
You can take it how you like again I don't have the time of energy to care! However, anyone who makes general assumptions about a large segment of officers needs to rethink their position, or maybe they have experienced a bad interaction.

 

[Deanimator]

The law enforcement profession provides incredible opportunities for the enterprising, unscrupulous and sociopathic to wreak incredible harm.

Apparently, you've never heard of Katherine Johnston, the Danziger Bridge murders or Jerry Finnegan and "S.O.S."[end quote]

It would take a lot more to hit my nerve, as I have no dog in your fight. Your general assertion says's plenty. Can any appointed person abuse power... Well look at your President, Your Governors, ext...ect....Jim Jones abused his power...You list four examples...how many nore do you think others could give on the other side?
You can take it how you like again I don't have the time of energy to care! However, anyone who makes general assumptions about a large segment of officers needs to rethink their position, or maybe they have experienced a bad interaction.

How many would you LIKE me to list? Are you asserting that those are the ONLY examples?

And let's say for argument's sake that "S.O.S." robbed me or a relative. That would refute my argument in WHAT way?

The undeniable fact is that police have incredible power, to use for good or evil. Some of them have in the past and will in the future use that power for evil, sometimes great evil.

That makes them at least a potential danger to any citizen whom they encounter. That citizen has a choice: either take prudent measures to protect himself or trust to luck and the kindness of total strangers in a profession prone to abuse of power.

Cops are like hitchhikers.

Most hitchhikers aren't serial killers.

Some are.

Most cops aren't violent, racist psychopaths.

Some are.

I don't pick up hitchhikers.

I don't talk to the police without legal representation or consent to ANY searches.

You pick up all the hitchhikers you want.

 

[Samuel]

This is just an observation of mine.

I'm seeing similar arguments for and against law enforcement officers when they are going to commit a crime because they possess a badge and authority, in a similar manner as concealed handgun license holders made by persons against them possessing such. This is not to argue who has more power, but when the person will commit the act and what is triggering the act of the abuse of power by both sides that I find the interesting parallels.

Again, thank you Walmart for allowing me to have this revelation.

 

[Deanimator]

This is just an observation of mine.

I'm seeing similar arguments for and against law enforcement officers when they are going to commit a crime because they possess a badge and authority, in a similar manner as concealed handgun license holders made by persons against them possessing such. This is not to argue who has more power, but when the person will commit the act and what is triggering the act of the abuse of power by both sides that I find the interesting parallels.

Again, thank you Walmart for allowing me to have this revelation.

You raise an interesting question and cause me to think of a dichotomy in thought:

Over and over, I see cops and their supporters defending disarming people AFTER the cop knows that the citizen has a valid carry credential, or when lawfully open carrying. The justification? They "don't know you".

Yet, if you state that you won't talk to the police without representation, or consent to searches, the fact that you don't know that cop or his true motives (he's allowed by law to lie in the course of an "investigation") is of utterly no consequence to cops and their supporters. You're just supposed to take it on faith that ANY cop you meet on the street means well and that there is an absolute ZERO chance that he's up to no good.

Strangely, citing known police misconduct is no justification for invoking your rights as a citizen, but the infinitesimally small number of cops shot by people with valid carry credentials is justification for citizens to be required to notify police that they're armed, and to be disarmed (or worse) when stopped by police, for whatever reason, fair or foul.

 

[TangoDown]

OC is 100% legal in KY

It's great to see another Kentucky resident on here. I carry all the time and in places I can't legally carry (Post Offices, Courthouses, etc.), I just work around them. *LOL* Wal-Mart hasd never been any issue thought they were the very first place I OC'ed and they were the very first to attempt to tell me that I couldn't carry in their store. I knew better than that and helped to educate the them as to the KRS and WM's own store policy on OC in their stores. The whole encounter took only 15 minutes and resulted in them backing down from their oppressive POV.

 

[CAPTAINJACK]

You are 100% right there keycutter,an officer or LEO never has any idea what kind of situation they will be walking into next.a little respect goes along way.

 

[RogDog]

I'm sure you will find very few if any police officer that will rob you! Can not be said for criminals..It sounds like you may have been caught on the other side of the line and it left a bitter taste..

When I was a junior sailor, the only thing I owned in the whole world was a 4X4 truck. It was stolen by a theft ring that included a towing company in another county and two sheriff deputies in mine. One of those deputies located targets for the ring, took my stolen vehicle report and entered it into their computer system as a "stolen plate." When the truck was "recovered," it was considered "abandoned" because there was no stolen report on it. Those cops were allowd to resign when caught but not prosecuted. The tow truck guys went to prison. I never recovered anythig on my truck.

A full 1% of San Diego PD officers are under felony indictment. Amazing considering the built in immunity to prosecution that the boys in blue enjoy.

I have had 4 incidents where an out of control cop, screaming his head off, shoved a gun in my face. I have never been arrested, not even by the thugs that at first wanted to kill me. One of those times I was a stranded motorist in a very bad neighborhood in the middle of the night. I was really glad to see that cop car until the cop inside went nuts.

Cops serve themselves and protect each other. It's the largest criminal conspiracy on the planet. They wonder why they get no respect. It's because they portray themselvs publicly as the good guys but run around acting like gangsters, thugging up on all they meet. Jesus, just take a step back and listen to cop conversation among themselves in a social setting when they think they are among friends. It's all "patrol stories" of this guy or another that they "taught a lesson to."

Yeah, I have a bitter taste too.

 

[hurley40]

LEO encounter

I have CCW...carry everywhere i go, except state or fed buildings. Its called Concealed Carry, so, unless there are metal detectors who knows. Plus, you really think a person with the intent on robbing the establishment really cares...they see it as an easy hit

 

[Firefighterchen]

I have CCW...carry everywhere i go, except state or fed buildings. Its called Concealed Carry, so, unless there are metal detectors who knows. Plus, you really think a person with the intent on robbing the establishment really cares...they see it as an easy hit

are you asking if a robber cares if he lives or dies?

 

[Deserteagle]

A full 1% of San Diego PD officers are under felony indictment. Amazing considering the built in immunity to prosecution that the boys in blue enjoy.


Cops serve themselves and protect each other. It's the largest criminal conspiracy on the planet. They wonder why they get no respect. It's because they portray themselvs publicly as the good guys but run around acting like gangsters, thugging up on all they meet.

Police also dont get any respect because of people like you making generalizations about a large group of people. As you said, 1% are under felony indictment, the other 99%, well according to you, they are all guilty too.

Ill prove your generalization wrong right now. You said cops roll around "thugging up on all they meet". I have met several cops and have never been "thugged up". Stop stereotyping and making unfounded generalizations and stop judging a whole group based on the actions of some individuals.

Lets apply your logic to some other group. Auto mechanics. A family member of mine had their oil changed at a dealership and they did not put new oil in after taking the old oil out, and the engine broke. Therefore, based on the actions of this auto mechanic, all auto mechanics are idiots that cannot do their job correctly. All they are looking to do is make an easy buck and take advantage of people and exercise nothing but carelessness and negligence. I hate all auto mechanics now...

We can use your logic all day and just end up going in a circle of ignorance. Clinton and Obama were (are) bad presidents, therefore all presidents are bad.

 

[RogDog]

Police also dont get any respect because of people like you making generalizations about a large group of people. As you said, 1% are under felony indictment, the other 99%, well according to you, they are all guilty too.

Ill prove your generalization wrong right now. You said cops roll around "thugging up on all they meet". I have met several cops and have never been "thugged up". Stop stereotyping and making unfounded generalizations and stop judging a whole group based on the actions of some individuals.

Lets apply your logic to some other group. Auto mechanics. A family member of mine had their oil changed at a dealership and they did not put new oil in after taking the old oil out, and the engine broke. Therefore, based on the actions of this auto mechanic, all auto mechanics are idiots that cannot do their job correctly. All they are looking to do is make an easy buck and take advantage of people and exercise nothing but carelessness and negligence. I hate all auto mechanics now...

We can use your logic all day and just end up going in a circle of ignorance. Clinton and Obama were (are) bad presidents, therefore all presidents are bad.

You forgot to include the context of my post. It was a reply to a comment that no police officer would rob you. I replied with my own, very specific, first hand example of a police officer who did in fact rob me. I went on to include a very few personal anticdotes of abuse of power that I have personally suffered at the hands of Police. I have many, many more but I will save them for another day.

I alluded to knowledge of other non-contact conversation that I have been privy to. I'll flesh that out a bit. I am an RSO. Many police officers attend events at my old club. Some are members. My son is an Eagle scout. I have spent many nights around campfires. Many police officers among the scout dad population. Both venues provide ample opportunity to participate in social conversations with them. Sailors tell sea stories, cops tell patrol stories. Both varieties tend to run to a particular form. One often involves drinking and debochery in foreign lands, the other; bragging about getting over on so and so who "deserved it." Both tend to entertaiin the target audience while offending every one else.

Far from generalization, I have personal experience over a lifetime that colors my opiinion of a class of public servant which I believe fails to provide the service that the public pays for. Furthermore, we pay with much more than money. The net effect of excessive and over zealous policing is a substantial dimunition of our liberty. And to beat the drum a little more. 1% is substantially more felony activity than exists in the general public. Considering once again that cops don't generally mess with other cops and prosecutors generally dont't want to mess with them either and judges and the law give them wide leeway, and they are charged with upholding the law, one might have a reasonable expectation that a police force could keep their average below that of the general public. It points to a pattern of behavior that we as a society should not tolerate in our public servants.

I believe that constitutes a rational development of a personal opinion supported by fact and experience. I remain distrustful of law enforcement, I'm too old to change that. Don't mistake my distrust for a willingness to engage them. Quite the contrary, I just go out of my way to avoid them. When contacted, I'm extreemly polite. I try like heck not to give them any information and break contact ASAP.

I'm not suggesting that you need to share my opinion, I don't care what opinion you have of auto mechanics either. Go grovel all you wish but please withhold your orders that I share your opinion.

This is not our thread, I appologise to the OP for the hijack.

 

[sgtbill]

When I was a junior sailor, the only thing I owned in the whole world was a 4X4 truck. It was stolen by a theft ring that included a towing company in another county and two sheriff deputies in mine. One of those deputies located targets for the ring, took my stolen vehicle report and entered it into their computer system as a "stolen plate." When the truck was "recovered," it was considered "abandoned" because there was no stolen report on it. Those cops were allowd to resign when caught but not prosecuted. The tow truck guys went to prison. I never recovered anythig on my truck.

A full 1% of San Diego PD officers are under felony indictment. Amazing considering the built in immunity to prosecution that the boys in blue enjoy.

I have had 4 incidents where an out of control cop, screaming his head off, shoved a gun in my face. I have never been arrested, not even by the thugs that at first wanted to kill me. One of those times I was a stranded motorist in a very bad neighborhood in the middle of the night. I was really glad to see that cop car until the cop inside went nuts.

Cops serve themselves and protect each other. It's the largest criminal conspiracy on the planet. They wonder why they get no respect. It's because they portray themselvs publicly as the good guys but run around acting like gangsters, thugging up on all they meet. Jesus, just take a step back and listen to cop conversation among themselves in a social setting when they think they are among friends. It's all "patrol stories" of this guy or another that they "taught a lesson to."

Yeah, I have a bitter taste too.

Boy who pissed in your cereal this morning. I suppose I should leave you alone because it is very obvious that your mouth get's you in trouble. By your way of thinking 90% of all Cop's are no good, so I can't figgure out how myself and my 3 brother's all made it to retirement and all retired as sergeant's after 25 or more years on the job without any civilian complaints about us. Yea I know you will now say that we were covered for by other members of the Dept. and that would also be wrong.
Bill Hurley Sr
Retired Det. Sergeant
Atlantic City Police Department
New Jersey

 

[Treo]

Just like not all cops are bad, not ever gun I encounter is loaded. However since I can't tell at a glance which is which, I follow all safety rules at all times and I treat every gun I encounter as if it is loaded.

Likewise, I guard my rights in any police encounter I may find myself in

 

[Deserteagle]

You forgot to include the context of my post. It was a reply to a comment that no police officer would rob you. I replied with my own, very specific, first hand example of a police officer who did in fact rob me. I went on to include a very few personal anticdotes of abuse of power that I have personally suffered at the hands of Police. I have many, many more but I will save them for another day.

I alluded to knowledge of other non-contact conversation that I have been privy to. I'll flesh that out a bit. I am an RSO. Many police officers attend events at my old club. Some are members. My son is an Eagle scout. I have spent many nights around campfires. Many police officers among the scout dad population. Both venues provide ample opportunity to participate in social conversations with them. Sailors tell sea stories, cops tell patrol stories. Both varieties tend to run to a particular form. One often involves drinking and debochery in foreign lands, the other; bragging about getting over on so and so who "deserved it." Both tend to entertaiin the target audience while offending every one else.

Far from generalization, I have personal experience over a lifetime that colors my opiinion of a class of public servant which I believe fails to provide the service that the public pays for. Furthermore, we pay with much more than money. The net effect of excessive and over zealous policing is a substantial dimunition of our liberty. And to beat the drum a little more. 1% is substantially more felony activity than exists in the general public. Considering once again that cops don't generally mess with other cops and prosecutors generally dont't want to mess with them either and judges and the law give them wide leeway, and they are charged with upholding the law, one might have a reasonable expectation that a police force could keep their average below that of the general public. It points to a pattern of behavior that we as a society should not tolerate in our public servants.

I believe that constitutes a rational development of a personal opinion supported by fact and experience. I remain distrustful of law enforcement, I'm too old to change that. Don't mistake my distrust for a willingness to engage them. Quite the contrary, I just go out of my way to avoid them. When contacted, I'm extreemly polite. I try like heck not to give them any information and break contact ASAP.

I'm not suggesting that you need to share my opinion, I don't care what opinion you have of auto mechanics either. Go grovel all you wish but please withhold your orders that I share your opinion.

This is not our thread, I appologise to the OP for the hijack.

You dont have much fact in here, only your opinions from your personal experiences. My person experiences have been quite pleasant. You are also continuing to make generalizations. You quote 1% of police in some department are under indictment for a crime, although being under indictment doesnt mean you are guilty. You also cannot take that number and apply it to the police across the country. You also cannot conclude that no cops are good and none are trustworthy because 1% are under indictment. Thats like saying that all Americans are filthy rich because of the top 1%

I also do not buy your conspiracy mentality of police. There are some evil ones who will break the law for each other, and they are all over the news and all over these forums. I personally know of one cop who does not grant any special treatment to people with a badge.

Go on having your opinion, Ill go on having mine. I for one try not to judge people before I meet them, I also try not to stereotype, and I try not to make generalizations. And if I did make a generalization, I would have to acknowledge the extreme bias in it rather than try to rationalize an irrational generalization.

 

[Deanimator]

Far from generalization, I have personal experience over a lifetime that colors my opiinion of a class of public servant which I believe fails to provide the service that the public pays for.

You need to understand that personal experience doesn't trump the need to defend police and to justify whatever they do, right, wrong, good, bad or even overtly criminal.

You can cite names, places, dates and docket numbers. It doesn't matter. The police are always right, no matter what. If they do something bad to somebody, it either never happened or they had it coming, be it the barmaid stomped by the cop in Chicago or Katherine Johnston murdered by the Atlanta PD. And if it simply CAN'T be denied or blamed on the victim, it's "just a LONE bad apple"... even when it's the sort of organized armed robbery ring that's recently operated in the Chicago and Philadelphia Police Departments.

As the line in the movie "Bladerunner" goes, "If you're not cop, you're little people."