Philadelphia Fiorino Charged for Open Carry, July Court

[localgirl]

Girls, girls! You're BOTH pretty!

If you promise to take a half dozen wealthy Californians out of north Idaho, you can both come live here. The worst crime you need to worry about is some schmuck stealing your bicycle, and no one cares if you open carry. You're more likely to run into a moose in your back yard than a murderer.

 

[Lakeland Man]

 

[BC1]

That's fine. I don't care what your personal opinion/preference is. I have a problem with you telling other people how they should behave, and being chastising when they act in a manner that you don't agree with, even though they are doing nothing illegal and doing nothing other than exercising their rights, to wit:



I would suggest that you follow your own advice, to wit:

In the end, all told, I think we really agree on this. leasantry:

 

[localgirl]

Egads!

 

[Gordon Shumway]

After Altercation, Philadelphia Police Say They Won't Look the Other Way on Open-Carry Gun Owners - FoxNews.com

Well, somebody has to be the sacrificial lamb. Fiorino volunteered.

 

[BlueMR2]

I found the comments on policeone.com to be interesting. A lot more support for the OCer from LEOs than one might normally expect. Quite encouraging. Incident changes Philly PD's policy on "open carry"

 

[NavyLCDR]

I found the comments on policeone.com to be interesting. A lot more support for the OCer from LEOs than one might normally expect. Quite encouraging. Incident changes Philly PD's policy on "open carry"

I find this comment to be interesting...

One should treat it as any other casual contact. Greet the subject, identify yourself, and ask if they would mind speaking with you for a moment. If asked why.....I would advise them that I would like to check the status of the permit to carry, if they refused.....then I would think one could articulate that as being an indication of possible wrong doing. While I know some people can be argumentative by nature....most law abiding citizens would not have a problem with it.

So let me get this straight, you are going to "ask" me to produce my "papers", and then if I refuse you are going to take that as an indication of criminal activity? Since when does a person exercising their 4th Amendment rights raise suspicion? And if he wasn't going to take no for answer, then why not just make it a demand to begin with? Oh, wait.... because the officer feels we are incriminating ourselves by protecting our privacy.

 

[Lakeland Man]

If I am correct, in order to open carry in PA (or in Philly), you need to possess a CC license. If this is the case, then there is no violation of a persons 4th Amendment rights by asking for their license in order to confirm that they are complying with the law.

So when they are asked to produce their "papers" (In my head I always hear that word in this context with a German accent), to me it is no different than asking a driver to produce their drivers license.

If I am wrong, and people in PA can open carry without a CC license, then there is no justification for asking for documentation.

 

[Swinokur]

OC is legal in PA without a permit, except Philadelphia. IMO, without RAS or PC, the PPD has no right to ask for your license. I guess it will take a court ruling and perhaps a hefty judgement against PPD before they stop trampling on the 4th Amendment.

To another post, I am not guilty of anything because I choose to exercise my 5th Amendment rights to not speak to the police. Same as the 4th amendment. LE may not like it, but that's exactly the reason for it.

 

[NavyLCDR]

If I am correct, in order to open carry in PA (or in Philly), you need to possess a CC license. If this is the case, then there is no violation of a persons 4th Amendment rights by asking for their license in order to confirm that they are complying with the law.

So when they are asked to produce their "papers" (In my head I always hear that word in this context with a German accent), to me it is no different than asking a driver to produce their drivers license.

If I am wrong, and people in PA can open carry without a CC license, then there is no justification for asking for documentation.

If a person is driving on the highway, obeying the speed limit, staying squarely between the lines, all lights functioning on the vehicle, proper non-expired license plates on the vehicle.... can a police officer lawfully stop that individual person for no other reason than to ensure they have a valid driver's license?

 

[S&WM&P40]

If a person is driving on the highway, obeying the speed limit, staying squarely between the lines, all lights functioning on the vehicle, proper non-expired license plates on the vehicle.... can a police officer lawfully stop that individual person for no other reason than to ensure they have a valid driver's license?

The sad fact of the matter is YES! They can pull you over for any reason they want(even if it's a made up one.) They can also follow you(or stalk) for as long as they want,till they find a reason to pull you over. If your car tire touches the yellow or white line they can use that as a reason to pull you over.

If your looking for a person to blame for our ever eroding rights in this country, we need only look in a mirror!!! Our compliance and need to "Feel safe" has caused us to become nothing more then dogs, who come when called,play dead,fetch,roll over and speak only when our masters tell us to do so.

Law Enforcement can come up with no valid points as to why we should not do things such as OC to name one. So they use the old standby that has worked for years and years "Officer safety!"

They use made up facts to support their side of the issue and when that fails they use FEAR! When FEAR fails they use intimidation! They use all of the above not just on citizens who should DARE open carry, but on city/town boards and other citizens who support the rights of OCer's!

The funnest part of this whole thing is as soon as they leave the "Blue brother hood" they are the first to ***** about their rights.

 

[mrjam2jab]

If a person is driving on the highway, obeying the speed limit, staying squarely between the lines, all lights functioning on the vehicle, proper non-expired license plates on the vehicle.... can a police officer lawfully stop that individual person for no other reason than to ensure they have a valid driver's license?

Exactly. Unless PPD is going to stop every person operating a motor vehicle just to confirm they have a driver's license, than they should NOT be stopping every person carry a firearm just to confirm licensed.

 

[S&WM&P40]

I think V says it best.

Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, think, and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well, certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the(Edit,The Government).They promised you order, they promised you peace, and all they demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent.

 

[Iteach4U]

You miss the point jr. This guy was virtually assaulted by POLICE officers for what legally amounts to chewing gum in public. The left nuts in this country cry foul at the very whisper of infringing on the civil "rights" of even illegal immigrants. But a law abiding American man who decides to be responsable for his own well being and doing so well within the letter of the law has nearly all his rights infringed upon, where's the out cry? Where's the blind liberal rage that so vigorously defends the wronged. If LEO were to pull that crap round here you dont got a job bud. And if you kept up with current news, O/C is a very near reality with the issue being taken up in our state gov. And with a republican majority and a pro gun govner, we got a real good shot(pun intended).

This is called an unlawful presentation of deadly force. No threat was present, officer on-scene identified that no threat existed, witnesses could confirm such, thus if the use of force continuum is followed properly then deadly force presentation IS NOT authorized based upon the actions of that individual.

That my friends is what's called deadly force assault if you or I were to present deadly force upon another person without being justified. It's yet another example of why recorders are so vital and why LEOs and law makers should be held fully accountable for law violations even during the course of their duties. That would mean no union lawyers, no taxpayer funded administrative leave, no paid vacations, just the same treatment as if you were John Q. Public.

Anyone want to take bets that the reason they're railroading him is because it was recorded and posted on the web? The Attorney General needs to step in and in turn railroad everyone involved in this matter except the LAC. Remove all of their authority, suspend all pay and benefits, immediately discharge them from employment, and file criminal charges for assault on behalf of the LAC.

 

[OpenCarryYes]

Case continued

It looks like the Fiorino case was continued until Sept.15th

 

[Iteach4U]

First, just conceal the damn thing and stop inviting trouble.

Second, obey the police at all times. It will get sorted out based on the law. But if the LEO doesn't know the law you're not going to educate him on the scene. When refusing to get on your knees you're guilty of obstruction and are inviting a forceful takedown. Just shut up and let the law work its solution.

The best fight you ever win is the one you don't have. Conceal it, shut your mouth and obey LEO commands. Damn this site is crammed with the same open-carry trouble story over and over.

Concealing isn't an option for everyone. Do you not understand that CCW permits are actually a Constitutional Amendment violation? It says: shall not be infringed. No conditions are placed upon the ownership or carrying of firearms in the Constituiton or its Amendments, none what so ever.

Huh...obey the police at all times, it will get sorted out? Have you never understood how Internal Affairs works and exactly why it exists? IA is intended to make it look like something is being sorted out, but in reality it's being covered up and due justice is never served. It's called internal for a reason!

Granted I tell students that it's better to comply and file the complaint, at least you'll be alive to do so. But, simply giving in to LEO demands under the color of law or what that LEO "thinks" is the law isn't always acceptable. This is why recording devices are so absolutely vital! An even bigger problem looms when a LEO unjustifiably presents deadly force. Point a gun at a citizen unjustifiably/unlawfully and you're no different than any other gun-weilding criminal and you may be giving that citizen the right to use deadly force in return. Is it wise for that citizen to do so? Probably not. Do I condone such behavior? No I do not. But it's a check that LEOs need to be considering.

Case in point: The video of the guy on the sportbike when a plain clothed LEO blocks him in, exits the vehicle, pulls a gun, orders him off the bike multiple times, and fails to identify himself as LEO for several seconds. That is an incident that would have easily justified the gun weilding person being shot. The rider was charged for violating "wire tapping" laws once the video hit youtube, all a knee-jerk reaction because the LEO got caught violating the law and the rights of that individual.

Second case in point is the incident in Ohio. No need to post up the information again, it's readily posted on this forum. LEO caught making direct threats of harm to 2 citizens, one of which threatened with an execution and potential cover up by the LEO's partner, one of which being a CCW permit holder that attempted to disclose under State law. Remember, an alleged "deal" was made in this case to sign a liability release not to sue the LEO or the PD and the charges for failure to notify would be dropped. Tell me that compliance is best, this person complied and look what's happening...we'll drop the charges if you'll help us bury this incident.

When a LAC (law abiding citizen) is doing nothing wrong and can illustrate such by permit issued by the State, mandated Statute, or any other means then the LEO community should know well enough to leave it the heck alone.

 

[nogods]

Concealing isn't an option for everyone. Do you not understand that CCW permits are actually a Constitutional Amendment violation? It says: shall not be infringed. No conditions are placed upon the ownership or carrying of firearms in the Constituiton or its Amendments, none what so ever.

What shall not be infringed? The right to bear arms. That isn't a self defining phrase. It needs interpretation - which is left to our judicial branch of the government.

The right to bear arms presently includes the right to own a handgun for personal protection in your home. It might eventually be expanded to more than than that, but right now everything beyond that is a mere fantasy.

 

[Boomboy007]

BC1 your wasting your time attempting to express your opinion around certain people (unless, of course it is the same as theirs!), so you just as well stop trying, your never going to get NavyLt to agree with you until you first agree with him!:no::no::sarcastic:

Blame me, because almost every time I read NavyLCDR's posts, he is in full agreement with ME!

It's one thing to walk down the street in, say, a small town out West where we all have a certain degree of gun savvy, versus a really large city back East, where people are scared pantless of violence, and especially of gun violence......

........Although, I will admit, if enough people followed suit, Fiorino's neighborhood would probably be a lot safer.

Well, I am surprised, and more than a little hurt, that you would suggest that I (a fellow American citizen) am less deserving to exercise my 2nd amendment right to self defense just because I live east of the Mississippi River.
:no:

Besides, immediately afterward you provide a very good reason for, as you called it, "poking the bear".

He also further aggravated the cops by recording them, which MAY be illegal in Pennsylvania.

Would you have believed him if he made these claims WITHOUT a recording?

After Altercation, Philadelphia Police Say They Won't Look the Other Way on Open-Carry Gun Owners - FoxNews.com

Well, somebody has to be the sacrificial lamb. Fiorino volunteered.

Yeah, much like those 56 patriots who signed the Declaration of Independence.

 

[wooddoctor]

1- NavyLT
2- G50AE
3- Treo
4- BigGayAl
5- Tucker's Mom
6- Anyone who kelcarry gets annoyed at[/QUOTe

Gulf, My feelings are hurt.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Isn't it amazing the posters who wish to present themselves as supreme patriots by either the implication of their handle (LOL) or the appelations and accusations of their words?

Most have zero experience of having killed someone, face to face from 8 feet away with a handgun. And hopefully, most never will.

Some of us who have been denegraded by this forum's posters have, 15 years ago, spent $thousands of dollars to be judged not guilty in court for legally having our weapon on our person. The LEOs went away with a pat on the back.

NO fun and I chose to not have to do it again.

Those of you who have the intestinal fortitude should go out this week and openly confront LEOs to advance your carry adjenda. Just think how it will expand your bragging rights if YOU are arrested and charged.