Granted i've been in this situation a couple of times, I've never been in the situation with a LTC. I will ALWAYS deny the right to search my vehicle on the simple merrit that it's my responsibility as a citizen to exercises the 4th and 5th amendment. I don't have anything to hide. however i've been responded to with such comments like "what are you a lawyer", and, "don't tell me what your rights are this is my job" from LEO in past experience. they'll usually bust your gonads quite a bit but i've never been arrested or charged with anything. Atleast here in RI, they're usually upset that you're willing to stand up for your' civil liberties.
Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?
- Thread starter Pele
- Start date
Granted i've been in this situation a couple of times, I've never been in the situation with a LTC. I will ALWAYS deny the right to search my vehicle on the simple merrit that it's my responsibility as a citizen to exercises the 4th and 5th amendment. I don't have anything to hide. however i've been responded to with such comments like "what are you a lawyer", and, "don't tell me what your rights are this is my job" from LEO in past experience. they'll usually bust your gonads quite a bit but i've never been arrested or charged with anything. Atleast here in RI, they're usually upset that you're willing to stand up for your' civil liberties.
Hey y'all: Over 11 pages of replies on this thread and it comes down to agreeing to disagree. Many of you stand on your lawful and constitutional rights and I can applaud you for your stance; I can understand your deep belief that as you give in a little to having some of your rights violated or taken away, you stand to eventually lose them all. I and many others do not seem to be as forboded by LEO actions and are willing to deal with LEOs in a more accomodating manner; I do not think any of us feel, however, that accomodation means loss of our rights and freedom. Bottom line still is our overall safety and we can all agree, by virtue of our subscribing to this forum, that CC, unfortunately, is a necessary action that we must take in today's society. Peace and safety to all. Have a Merry Xmas and we can all hope that the day will come when a forum such as this really would not be necessary--unfortunately, as a realist, this probably will never happen and I see a future America that is fundamentally changing to Third Worldism and debt-ridden disaster, which may change some of my thoughts on "accomodation"--even to LEOs.
Jim_Macklin
New member
Some states require, under penalty of law, that you inform any LEO who stops you for an official purposes if you are carrying. Some don't. KISS, have one action that you can do anywhere you are legally carrying, disclose you have a CCH/CCW/CWP and that you are or or not carrying at the moment.
Most street cops will appreciate the honesty, most probably do approve of the idea. Many cops will even give you a break.
If you are worried about the cop not knowing the proper method to handle your gun, a not uncommon thing, most cops won't want to take your gun, just leave it in your holster.
But if they want it, do what you'd do anywhere, clear it yourself before handing it over. Of course, say what you're going to do.
Most street cops will appreciate the honesty, most probably do approve of the idea. Many cops will even give you a break.
If you are worried about the cop not knowing the proper method to handle your gun, a not uncommon thing, most cops won't want to take your gun, just leave it in your holster.
But if they want it, do what you'd do anywhere, clear it yourself before handing it over. Of course, say what you're going to do.
Mostly because the LEO started the confrontation in the first place. Any time a LEO beings a confrontation, their job is to find something you did wrong and either cite or arrest you for it.
Without a doubt, they have a rather difficult job, and the possibility of them being killed on duty is always there. However, at the basic level, they are government employees. As such, they have an obligation to preserve my rights, as defined in both my state constitution and the US Constitution. I have no interest in helping a police officer convict me on any charges, no matter how minor. And since there are very literally hundreds of thousands of laws on the books, I'm bound to be breaking one at any given moment.
So in the end, I do appreciate where the LEO is coming from, but I just don't feel the need to accommodate a person who starts an adversarial confrontation with me with the intention of making me pay a fine. If a LEO starts a casual conversation with no adversarial confrontation, I'm game. But the second the whole "I can force you to pay a fine and/or deprive you of your freedom" comes into play, I refuse to help in any way. And the legal way to do that is to remain quiet and only do what is minimally necessary, as dictated by law.
Because I have such a high regard for my liberties and rights, I'm willing to risk the possible "problem" with any LEO. I will never resist arrest, and I will never attack a LEO. Those two things along with my "right to remain silent" and refusal of searches will limit any negative LEO encounter. But that's the path I take. Each and every person has to make up their own mind on the matter. Neither way is really wrong.
If your state requires notification, obviously you should notify. I disagree with those laws, but it would be rather foolish not to obey those. If your state does not require notification, you choose your path. Neither way is wrong. I choose not to, because it isn't any of their business.
If a LEO is confronting you in an official capacity and you put your hands anywhere near your weapon, it is an exceptionally good way to find yourself with an extra hole or seven. If the LEO wants your gun, you can verbally refuse. If he has legal grounds to seize it, let the LEO get it. If you try to pull your weapon to clear it at that point, it might literally be the last thing you ever do.
By the way, I seriously respect everyone here for not taking a negative attitude on their posts on both sides of this argument. It's obvious that there are those on both sides who are steadfast in their thoughts on this subject.
So thanks for keeping it civil and making this site worth returning to!
Happy holidays to everyone!
So thanks for keeping it civil and making this site worth returning to!
Happy holidays to everyone!
hey rayven: I appreciate your last reply and finally can agree with you. Have a Merry Xmas and healthy and Happy and SAFE New Year with no need for firearms, LEOs, etc etc. Peace brother, peace. As you said, the exchange is worthwhile, I learn a lot about and from others and I learn a lot about myself.
Beachbumcook
NRA Supporter
In Kansas, your driver's license gets flagged (not your plates). There maybe some way to cross-reference it, but I do not think that is the case as cars and trucks get sold and traded every day.
In Kansas, you olny have to inform and have your CCW license on you when your carrying (if no gun, then no need to state or show CCW license). When they run your driver's license, it will pop-up and then he/she may or will ask for your CCW or if your carrying.
Personally, I agree with the initial poster of the thread, but I have also learned to NEVER volunteer anything for any reason until asked. No reason to even have this discussion until "Mr. Officier" asks about it.
I guess do what your comfortable with in your own town/state.
In Kansas, you olny have to inform and have your CCW license on you when your carrying (if no gun, then no need to state or show CCW license). When they run your driver's license, it will pop-up and then he/she may or will ask for your CCW or if your carrying.
Personally, I agree with the initial poster of the thread, but I have also learned to NEVER volunteer anything for any reason until asked. No reason to even have this discussion until "Mr. Officier" asks about it.
I guess do what your comfortable with in your own town/state.
In NH (Live Free or Die) your constitutional rights still exist - you don't need to inform because its nobody's business.
I'm guessing those who will lean towards informing are doing so to prevent overreaction from the LEO just in case your legal gun is found. So if you're a diabetic, do you inform him/her of your insulin needle?
Legal gun and not required to inform - keep it that way. Overreaction from a LEO is unaceptable and should be dealt with accordingly.
I'm guessing those who will lean towards informing are doing so to prevent overreaction from the LEO just in case your legal gun is found. So if you're a diabetic, do you inform him/her of your insulin needle?
Legal gun and not required to inform - keep it that way. Overreaction from a LEO is unaceptable and should be dealt with accordingly.
ConstitutionComeHome
New member
My first post to these boards and a very interesting place to start (especially considering my name)! I apologize up front for the extremely long post ... it is a bad habit of mine. 
I am a FIRM believer in protecting what the constitution and many of it's amendments give and/or protect. That should be obvious by my name, but thought I would point it out. I would also like to note that I signed up and created this name BEFORE finding this thread (I actually use the name on several sites).
I do not have a license yet as I have to get my record expunged (I was a bad 19 year old) first ... but it is already in the works.
Anyways, the point of this post is to make note of several observations I have made while reading this thread. There are numerous comments that I applauded and was very proud to feel the same way. Here we go:
First off, just because you have a constitutional right to do something, does NOT mean that you have to exercise that right. Exercising a right is not always the same as defending that right. Simply put, just because you have the ability to exercise a right does not mean that you need to, or should, do so. The founding fathers were all about protecting liberties, but I'd go as far as say that they were men of practicality as well (read: good common sense). While the majority of sheeple out there do not even understand or know their rights, just because you DO know them does not mean that you MUST exercise them.
A simple example: There have been several mentions of refusing to let a LEO search a vehicle. While that is your RIGHT, it is not always (or even the majority of the time) the right thing to do. Why? Let me explain ...
I drive like a nut. I love going fast and I have a sticker on both my truck and car's windshields that reminds people what lane they should be in (a reversed sticker that when read through a rearview mirror states: SLOWER TRAFFIC ----->). Obviously, I get pulled over quite a bit. :cray: I have had LEO's ask me many, many times if they could search my vehicle and unless they were being very rude to me, I allow them. I have nothing to hide and if I refuse we will both have to wait for a good long while ... just for a K-9 unit to arrive so my car can be sniffed (to try and get probable cause).
My car has been searched an entire ONE time. I was 21, had a stripper in the car with me, had just left a strip club, it was around 3 in the morning, I had been speeding, and I gave permission to search. Every time that I have allowed a search, they have not actually searched (minus the above exception) because I was acting in a responsible way, did not hesitate to acquiesce to a search, and laughed when they asked the silly question about drugs, prostitutes, bombs, and guns.
Also, LEOs that are complete jerks do not always 'stick it to you'. I've had my vehicles sniffed by many a dog and the cops never 'pretended' that the dog acted in a peculiar way. Not a single time. Please remember that every time I told the cop no it was because he was already acting like an ass. Could it happen and they pretend the dog smells something? Sure. Have I received several tickets because I made the officer wary and made his job harder and more frustrating? Yes.
The fact is, most LEOs that ask for permission to search your vehicle are looking for guilty behavior and gauging your response and demeanor when asking the question. By refusing, that makes them cautious and maybe even mildly suspicious ...
Common sense dictates that at some times, exercising a right isn't the wisest idea. The same applies to showing your license even when not required. It doesn't 'strip away' a right when you CHOOSE not to exercise it. In that case, it is simply a common courtesy. The cop will 'usually' appreciate the gesture as well as the knowledge that you are carrying. Sure, you would have appreciated not being pulled over ... but chances are high that the cop is just doing his job enforcing a law. Sometimes you just get pulled over, but kindness and courtesy beget kindness and courtesy and sometimes it takes a bigger man to start the cycle rather than meeting cold and indifferent with the like.
Think of it this way: if everyone who was pulled over refused to allow a search, the chances are high, due to the progressive anti-constitutional society that dominates our current political parties, that the laws would quickly change in regards to probable cause. Seriously think about that and don't discount it while pointing at any great documents (constitution, bill of rights, etc) as they have proven time and time again that they are only as valid as the politicians want them to be at any given moment. Hell, just look at the FED, the income tax, the laws on firearms, etc.
If you disagree with a thing, the best forum to address it is where you can change it (politics, voting booth, etc.) and probably not where it can just cause you discomfort at best (sitting on side of road with a LEO) and changes or defends nothing.
Don't misunderstand me, I fully understand discomforting yourself to uphold a principle, and if you guys feel that the cost is worth the gesture ... that is your right. I just personally think that making a token gesture is not worth the cost, especially when in the grand scheme of things it changes nothing. It doesn't protect your freedoms, it doesn't change anything, it costs you time and money, and it makes that officer's job harder when he is just like us and wants to get home to his family. The founding father's, I like to think, would have wanted us to use those rights with common sense and save that extra time, effort, and money towards getting our country back to the way it should be.
Sorry if my first post seems overly aggressive or offensive, but this is a topic that I feel VERY strongly about. The great thing about having rights is that we get to use them when we feel like as they are just what they sound like: rights! :man_in_love:
Just my 2 cents,
ConstitutionComeHome
I am a FIRM believer in protecting what the constitution and many of it's amendments give and/or protect. That should be obvious by my name, but thought I would point it out. I would also like to note that I signed up and created this name BEFORE finding this thread (I actually use the name on several sites).
I do not have a license yet as I have to get my record expunged (I was a bad 19 year old) first ... but it is already in the works.
Anyways, the point of this post is to make note of several observations I have made while reading this thread. There are numerous comments that I applauded and was very proud to feel the same way. Here we go:
First off, just because you have a constitutional right to do something, does NOT mean that you have to exercise that right. Exercising a right is not always the same as defending that right. Simply put, just because you have the ability to exercise a right does not mean that you need to, or should, do so. The founding fathers were all about protecting liberties, but I'd go as far as say that they were men of practicality as well (read: good common sense). While the majority of sheeple out there do not even understand or know their rights, just because you DO know them does not mean that you MUST exercise them.
A simple example: There have been several mentions of refusing to let a LEO search a vehicle. While that is your RIGHT, it is not always (or even the majority of the time) the right thing to do. Why? Let me explain ...
I drive like a nut. I love going fast and I have a sticker on both my truck and car's windshields that reminds people what lane they should be in (a reversed sticker that when read through a rearview mirror states: SLOWER TRAFFIC ----->). Obviously, I get pulled over quite a bit. :cray: I have had LEO's ask me many, many times if they could search my vehicle and unless they were being very rude to me, I allow them. I have nothing to hide and if I refuse we will both have to wait for a good long while ... just for a K-9 unit to arrive so my car can be sniffed (to try and get probable cause).
My car has been searched an entire ONE time. I was 21, had a stripper in the car with me, had just left a strip club, it was around 3 in the morning, I had been speeding, and I gave permission to search. Every time that I have allowed a search, they have not actually searched (minus the above exception) because I was acting in a responsible way, did not hesitate to acquiesce to a search, and laughed when they asked the silly question about drugs, prostitutes, bombs, and guns.
Also, LEOs that are complete jerks do not always 'stick it to you'. I've had my vehicles sniffed by many a dog and the cops never 'pretended' that the dog acted in a peculiar way. Not a single time. Please remember that every time I told the cop no it was because he was already acting like an ass. Could it happen and they pretend the dog smells something? Sure. Have I received several tickets because I made the officer wary and made his job harder and more frustrating? Yes.
The fact is, most LEOs that ask for permission to search your vehicle are looking for guilty behavior and gauging your response and demeanor when asking the question. By refusing, that makes them cautious and maybe even mildly suspicious ...
Common sense dictates that at some times, exercising a right isn't the wisest idea. The same applies to showing your license even when not required. It doesn't 'strip away' a right when you CHOOSE not to exercise it. In that case, it is simply a common courtesy. The cop will 'usually' appreciate the gesture as well as the knowledge that you are carrying. Sure, you would have appreciated not being pulled over ... but chances are high that the cop is just doing his job enforcing a law. Sometimes you just get pulled over, but kindness and courtesy beget kindness and courtesy and sometimes it takes a bigger man to start the cycle rather than meeting cold and indifferent with the like.
Think of it this way: if everyone who was pulled over refused to allow a search, the chances are high, due to the progressive anti-constitutional society that dominates our current political parties, that the laws would quickly change in regards to probable cause. Seriously think about that and don't discount it while pointing at any great documents (constitution, bill of rights, etc) as they have proven time and time again that they are only as valid as the politicians want them to be at any given moment. Hell, just look at the FED, the income tax, the laws on firearms, etc.
If you disagree with a thing, the best forum to address it is where you can change it (politics, voting booth, etc.) and probably not where it can just cause you discomfort at best (sitting on side of road with a LEO) and changes or defends nothing.
Don't misunderstand me, I fully understand discomforting yourself to uphold a principle, and if you guys feel that the cost is worth the gesture ... that is your right. I just personally think that making a token gesture is not worth the cost, especially when in the grand scheme of things it changes nothing. It doesn't protect your freedoms, it doesn't change anything, it costs you time and money, and it makes that officer's job harder when he is just like us and wants to get home to his family. The founding father's, I like to think, would have wanted us to use those rights with common sense and save that extra time, effort, and money towards getting our country back to the way it should be.
Sorry if my first post seems overly aggressive or offensive, but this is a topic that I feel VERY strongly about. The great thing about having rights is that we get to use them when we feel like as they are just what they sound like: rights! :man_in_love:
Just my 2 cents,
ConstitutionComeHome
My first post to these boards and a very interesting place to start (especially considering my name)! I apologize up front for the extremely long post ... it is a bad habit of mine.
I am a FIRM believer in protecting what the constitution and many of it's amendments give and/or protect. That should be obvious by my name, but thought I would point it out. I would also like to note that I signed up and created this name BEFORE finding this thread (I actually use the name on several sites).
I do not have a license yet as I have to get my record expunged (I was a bad 19 year old) first ... but it is already in the works.
Anyways, the point of this post is to make note of several observations I have made while reading this thread. There are numerous comments that I applauded and was very proud to feel the same way. Here we go:
First off, just because you have a constitutional right to do something, does NOT mean that you have to exercise that right. Exercising a right is not always the same as defending that right. Simply put, just because you have the ability to exercise a right does not mean that you need to, or should, do so. The founding fathers were all about protecting liberties, but I'd go as far as say that they were men of practicality as well (read: good common sense). While the majority of sheeple out there do not even understand or know their rights, just because you DO know them does not mean that you MUST exercise them.
A simple example: There have been several mentions of refusing to let a LEO search a vehicle. While that is your RIGHT, it is not always (or even the majority of the time) the right thing to do. Why? Let me explain ...
I drive like a nut. I love going fast and I have a sticker on both my truck and car's windshields that reminds people what lane they should be in (a reversed sticker that when read through a rearview mirror states: SLOWER TRAFFIC ----->). Obviously, I get pulled over quite a bit. :cray: I have had LEO's ask me many, many times if they could search my vehicle and unless they were being very rude to me, I allow them. I have nothing to hide and if I refuse we will both have to wait for a good long while ... just for a K-9 unit to arrive so my car can be sniffed (to try and get probable cause).
My car has been searched an entire ONE time. I was 21, had a stripper in the car with me, had just left a strip club, it was around 3 in the morning, I had been speeding, and I gave permission to search. Every time that I have allowed a search, they have not actually searched (minus the above exception) because I was acting in a responsible way, did not hesitate to acquiesce to a search, and laughed when they asked the silly question about drugs, prostitutes, bombs, and guns.
Also, LEOs that are complete jerks do not always 'stick it to you'. I've had my vehicles sniffed by many a dog and the cops never 'pretended' that the dog acted in a peculiar way. Not a single time. Please remember that every time I told the cop no it was because he was already acting like an ass. Could it happen and they pretend the dog smells something? Sure. Have I received several tickets because I made the officer wary and made his job harder and more frustrating? Yes.
The fact is, most LEOs that ask for permission to search your vehicle are looking for guilty behavior and gauging your response and demeanor when asking the question. By refusing, that makes them cautious and maybe even mildly suspicious ...
Common sense dictates that at some times, exercising a right isn't the wisest idea. The same applies to showing your license even when not required. It doesn't 'strip away' a right when you CHOOSE not to exercise it. In that case, it is simply a common courtesy. The cop will 'usually' appreciate the gesture as well as the knowledge that you are carrying. Sure, you would have appreciated not being pulled over ... but chances are high that the cop is just doing his job enforcing a law. Sometimes you just get pulled over, but kindness and courtesy beget kindness and courtesy and sometimes it takes a bigger man to start the cycle rather than meeting cold and indifferent with the like.
Think of it this way: if everyone who was pulled over refused to allow a search, the chances are high, due to the progressive anti-constitutional society that dominates our current political parties, that the laws would quickly change in regards to probable cause. Seriously think about that and don't discount it while pointing at any great documents (constitution, bill of rights, etc) as they have proven time and time again that they are only as valid as the politicians want them to be at any given moment. Hell, just look at the FED, the income tax, the laws on firearms, etc.
If you disagree with a thing, the best forum to address it is where you can change it (politics, voting booth, etc.) and probably not where it can just cause you discomfort at best (sitting on side of road with a LEO) and changes or defends nothing.
Don't misunderstand me, I fully understand discomforting yourself to uphold a principle, and if you guys feel that the cost is worth the gesture ... that is your right. I just personally think that making a token gesture is not worth the cost, especially when in the grand scheme of things it changes nothing. It doesn't protect your freedoms, it doesn't change anything, it costs you time and money, and it makes that officer's job harder when he is just like us and wants to get home to his family. The founding father's, I like to think, would have wanted us to use those rights with common sense and save that extra time, effort, and money towards getting our country back to the way it should be.
Sorry if my first post seems overly aggressive or offensive, but this is a topic that I feel VERY strongly about. The great thing about having rights is that we get to use them when we feel like as they are just what they sound like: rights! :man_in_love:
Just my 2 cents,
ConstitutionComeHome
First of all, welcome to the forum. If you haven't done so already, I strongly recommend that you check out this video: Don’t Talk To The Police! Video by Professor James Duane : Constitutionals
Though I'm all for cooperating with the police to the best of my ability, I won't do so if it's gonna mean that I have to give up my Civil Rights. I've worked too long and too hard to get to where I am today. Past experience has taught me that if my freedom is at stake, I should have an attorney present to ensure that I preserve my rights.
Rock on as you wish, I strongly recommend that others seriously consider the consequences of taking your advice.
gf
firefighter
New member
I once got pulled over (expired tag) and it was a weird situation it was a senior officer training a rookie. While the senior was in the car running my tag the rookie was hanging out by my truck. I could almost see his brain going through his notes from school and he looks over at me and says "Sir do you have any ILLEGAL weapons in the vehicle" ....... I pause and look at him and say "NO" he processed my pause and says "Well then do you have ANY weapons in the vehicle"....... I pause again and say "LEGAL yes, illegal NO" and procede to tell him well I have a S&W .40 cal in the center console (pre CWP) a knife in the ashtray and another folder in my waistband. LOL He procedes to freak out and go for his gun...... I go into are you fukin crazy? I a gawdamn FIREMAN! I'm on your goddamn side! He starts with out of the car yadda yadda yadda....... Next thing I know there are supervisors showing up about 5 squad cars later they are all around me giving me shit.... Luckily for me I have a very disarming personality and proceded to calm things down.
In the end everything was okay (I'm a law abiding citizens and was well within my rights) but one thing got my attention. The Seargant or Captain what ever he was asked me why do you carry one in the chamber? I said because it's little better than a hammer w/o one in the chamber. Then he says why do you carry hollow points? My reply was along the lines of to avoid overpenetration.
No offense to ane LEO's but I hate the damn Barney Fife's of Law Enforcement. :to_pick_ones_nose:
In the end everything was okay (I'm a law abiding citizens and was well within my rights) but one thing got my attention. The Seargant or Captain what ever he was asked me why do you carry one in the chamber? I said because it's little better than a hammer w/o one in the chamber. Then he says why do you carry hollow points? My reply was along the lines of to avoid overpenetration.
No offense to ane LEO's but I hate the damn Barney Fife's of Law Enforcement. :to_pick_ones_nose:
RRGlock23
New member
I lived in Kalifornika for many years. The ccw holder is required to present driver license and ccw permit to LEO or CHP that you are possesion of the gun.
Arizona is not required to inform to the LEO or AHP, unless if they REQUESTED.
utimmer43
New member
According to handgunlaw.us - california, such is not the case. Can you point to a statute that says otherwise?
maybejim
Maybejim
I've never seen any thing that indicates I have to present my carry permit in Kalfornia and I've seen things that say I do not. I'll check again but I'm pretty sure there is no requirement to notify in Kalifornia.
I just checked with handgunlaw website and they say no notification required.
Desert Dude
New member
I believe it depends on what County you live in, and when you got (or renewed) your permit. I live in Kern County and was asked to sign a statement issued by the Sheriff's Dept that I would immediately notify any LEO that I was armed (if so). There is nothing on my permit that says I have to.
By the way, California does NOT start with a K.
utimmer43
New member
If my memory serves me, doesn't CA have state preemption laws that would supersede such a requirement?
I think if I come back to this thread in about a year it will still be going on. Bottom line--do whatchya gotta do. I do not think anyone has changed anyone's mind on anything, but it is fun tryin. Personally, being stopped in a car because I did something wrong (in my 68 years I have been stopped 5 times and I was wrong in every one of them) does not rise to the need for an attorney--only a need to be civil and respectful of an LEO who does not know who the heck you are except for the fact that you committed a traffic violation. See you guys in about a year on this thread and do not expect to see any breakthroughs on this stalemate.
lmao! You got that right, KC.
utimmer43
New member
What's funny is that I didn't even realize which thread it was when I posted the last couple times. They're all starting to run together.:biggrin:
