Inform the officer or not when concealed carry?

If my memory serves me, doesn't CA have state preemption laws that would supersede such a requirement?

The Concealed Carry provisions allow the issuing agency to put pretty much what ever they want as restrictions. My original permit (17 years ago or so) was restricted to only when I was working and only in the counties where I had customers. That was dropped and I was required to always carry pepper spray. That was dropped and now my permit only restricts what guns I can carry (3). This was first from Simi Valley and later from Ventura County.
 
I have never really understood the trend on the internet of deliberate mispelling of certain words such as, Kalifornia, Klinton Administration or Kristianity. My guess is that is has something to do with a similar writing device used by the Ku Klux Klan.

It has nothing to do with the Ku Klux Klan but everything to do with 1. irritating leftists, and 2. reminding people of the socialistic/communistic direction Kalifornia is headed in. Look at our gun laws. Most are clearly unconstitutional. Look at the welfare situation. The state refuses to follow Federal guidelines by allowing people to stay on for much longer than the Fed law states and as a result loses large amounts of Federal monies (all of which are probably unconstitutional but that's a whole nother ball of wax). Look at the Kalifornia budget problems and the fact that millions of dollars go to and for illegal aliens. And of course with the Dem controlled legislature, it goes on and on and on. So yeah, I use Kalifornia, I never used Klinton or any other but I am angry at what the Dem's have done to a really blessed state.
 
I believe it depends on what County you live in, and when you got (or renewed) your permit. I live in Kern County and was asked to sign a statement issued by the Sheriff's Dept that I would immediately notify any LEO that I was armed (if so). There is nothing on my permit that says I have to.

By the way, California does NOT start with a K.

Philadelphia, PA has a similar statement that they ask you to sign...they can't make you sign it as it's not a contract. In it, they say things like you must immediately notify LEO and if you leave your gun in your car and the gun gets stolen they will revoke your carry license. Neither of which have any basis in law, they just like to throw their weight around and make up their own rules.
 
If you where LEO would you not want to be notified? Mandatory in my State, and if stopped in any other State I'm Licensed in (33 with SC and FLA CWP's) I will inform as well. Sooner to be over cautious, then full of holes. LEO's have a a job to do, most are the GOOD Guys!

Who is John Galt?
 
If you where LEO would you not want to be notified?
Honestly, I wouldn't really give a damn. Some might say that, because I choose not to inform, that is a biased answer. However, I think it is more objective than bias. Looking at the situation in a completely objective manner, (which I try to do in every situation) I realize that whatever I pulled the guy over for has nothing to do with his firearm. Now, if I do discover it, you can be damn sure that I will be prepared to react if necessary. And of course a request for the permit will follow. Valid permit= no problem, keep your hands on the wheel, and I'll be right back with your ticket. No valid permit= now we have a problem. Realize that I am in PA, where a permit is required to possess a loaded gun in your vehicle. If I were in a state that didn't require such, my procedure would change a little bit. But at NO time would I get bent out of shape over someone not telling me something I didn't ask him about in the first place.
 
ConstitutionComeHome

I think you've painted a pretty good picture as to why you were being searched in the first place AND most likely why you dont hold a license to carry as a result.



My first post to these boards and a very interesting place to start (especially considering my name)! I apologize up front for the extremely long post ... it is a bad habit of mine. :(

I am a FIRM believer in protecting what the constitution and many of it's amendments give and/or protect. That should be obvious by my name, but thought I would point it out. I would also like to note that I signed up and created this name BEFORE finding this thread (I actually use the name on several sites).

I do not have a license yet as I have to get my record expunged (I was a bad 19 year old) first ... but it is already in the works.

Anyways, the point of this post is to make note of several observations I have made while reading this thread. There are numerous comments that I applauded and was very proud to feel the same way. Here we go:

First off, just because you have a constitutional right to do something, does NOT mean that you have to exercise that right. Exercising a right is not always the same as defending that right. Simply put, just because you have the ability to exercise a right does not mean that you need to, or should, do so. The founding fathers were all about protecting liberties, but I'd go as far as say that they were men of practicality as well (read: good common sense). While the majority of sheeple out there do not even understand or know their rights, just because you DO know them does not mean that you MUST exercise them.

A simple example: There have been several mentions of refusing to let a LEO search a vehicle. While that is your RIGHT, it is not always (or even the majority of the time) the right thing to do. Why? Let me explain ...

I drive like a nut. I love going fast and I have a sticker on both my truck and car's windshields that reminds people what lane they should be in (a reversed sticker that when read through a rearview mirror states: SLOWER TRAFFIC ----->). Obviously, I get pulled over quite a bit. :cray: I have had LEO's ask me many, many times if they could search my vehicle and unless they were being very rude to me, I allow them. I have nothing to hide and if I refuse we will both have to wait for a good long while ... just for a K-9 unit to arrive so my car can be sniffed (to try and get probable cause).

My car has been searched an entire ONE time. I was 21, had a stripper in the car with me, had just left a strip club, it was around 3 in the morning, I had been speeding, and I gave permission to search. Every time that I have allowed a search, they have not actually searched (minus the above exception) because I was acting in a responsible way, did not hesitate to acquiesce to a search, and laughed when they asked the silly question about drugs, prostitutes, bombs, and guns.

Also, LEOs that are complete jerks do not always 'stick it to you'. I've had my vehicles sniffed by many a dog and the cops never 'pretended' that the dog acted in a peculiar way. Not a single time. Please remember that every time I told the cop no it was because he was already acting like an ass. Could it happen and they pretend the dog smells something? Sure. Have I received several tickets because I made the officer wary and made his job harder and more frustrating? Yes.

The fact is, most LEOs that ask for permission to search your vehicle are looking for guilty behavior and gauging your response and demeanor when asking the question. By refusing, that makes them cautious and maybe even mildly suspicious ...

Common sense dictates that at some times, exercising a right isn't the wisest idea. The same applies to showing your license even when not required. It doesn't 'strip away' a right when you CHOOSE not to exercise it. In that case, it is simply a common courtesy. The cop will 'usually' appreciate the gesture as well as the knowledge that you are carrying. Sure, you would have appreciated not being pulled over ... but chances are high that the cop is just doing his job enforcing a law. Sometimes you just get pulled over, but kindness and courtesy beget kindness and courtesy and sometimes it takes a bigger man to start the cycle rather than meeting cold and indifferent with the like.

Think of it this way: if everyone who was pulled over refused to allow a search, the chances are high, due to the progressive anti-constitutional society that dominates our current political parties, that the laws would quickly change in regards to probable cause. Seriously think about that and don't discount it while pointing at any great documents (constitution, bill of rights, etc) as they have proven time and time again that they are only as valid as the politicians want them to be at any given moment. Hell, just look at the FED, the income tax, the laws on firearms, etc.

If you disagree with a thing, the best forum to address it is where you can change it (politics, voting booth, etc.) and probably not where it can just cause you discomfort at best (sitting on side of road with a LEO) and changes or defends nothing.

Don't misunderstand me, I fully understand discomforting yourself to uphold a principle, and if you guys feel that the cost is worth the gesture ... that is your right. I just personally think that making a token gesture is not worth the cost, especially when in the grand scheme of things it changes nothing. It doesn't protect your freedoms, it doesn't change anything, it costs you time and money, and it makes that officer's job harder when he is just like us and wants to get home to his family. The founding father's, I like to think, would have wanted us to use those rights with common sense and save that extra time, effort, and money towards getting our country back to the way it should be.

Sorry if my first post seems overly aggressive or offensive, but this is a topic that I feel VERY strongly about. The great thing about having rights is that we get to use them when we feel like as they are just what they sound like: rights! :man_in_love:

Just my 2 cents,

ConstitutionComeHome
 
Sorry to see your post G50AE. Do not know where you live in SC but here in Mt. Pleasant, Charleston County, the police are as professional as can be. I attended a Mt. Pleasant Citizens Academy, am a member of its alumni association, know the Chief personally, rode along with the police on patrol (can do that whenever you want) and met many of the officers. All are college grads, the Chief expects total professionalism and some have been fired quite quickly for "cooping" or other infractions and am saddened to hear your comments. I can always recall a very rainy morning before I lived here as I was coming thru SC from FL with a car full of my parents' stuff. I was lost and could hardly see the road and was looking for a restaurant for breakfast and then I see blue lights behind me. A SC state trooper is getting out of his car, putting his unmistakeable hat on and I figure I've got a problem. I explained what I was doing and he suggested one of two restaurants across the road and told me to be carful with the weather. If nothing else, with your feelings being what they are, I would think that courtesy would benefit the situation.
 
First of all, welcome to the forum. If you haven't done so already, I strongly recommend that you check out this video: Don’t Talk To The Police! Video by Professor James Duane : Constitutionals

Though I'm all for cooperating with the police to the best of my ability, I won't do so if it's gonna mean that I have to give up my Civil Rights. I've worked too long and too hard to get to where I am today. Past experience has taught me that if my freedom is at stake, I should have an attorney present to ensure that I preserve my rights.

Rock on as you wish, I strongly recommend that others seriously consider the consequences of taking your advice

I've seen the video and understand exactly where he is coming from. However, there is a big difference between a traffic stop and a direct criminal investigation that you may or may not be linked with.

In a traffic stop, the officer IS looking for violations of the law, let there be no doubt. Fortunately, it is a completely different mindset and unless you run into a LEO that is willing to create fake charges or you really do have something to hide ... well, then you have nothing to hide. On the off-chance that you do meet such a horrid LEO, then 'evidence' can be planted and your refusal to do more than the minimum required of you (refusal of searching the car, refusal of a simple explanation of where you were and where you are going, etc.) is just going to add credence to his case against you.

In general one should never talk to a law enforcement officer unless in the presence of an attorney. This rule of thumb applies to all types of law enforcement contact, be it with the BATFE, DEA, local police or the dog catcher.

Which sounds like a difficult way of living your life to me. I'm just curious, but what if everyone felt the need to exercise their rights on every occasion they were in contact with a LEO? How many murders would be solved? Think of it like this:

LEO=""Excuse me sir, there was a shooting next door and a 12 year old girls body was found brutally raped and murdered. We are going door to door trying to find out if anyone heard or saw anything ...""
YOU=""I have nothing to say unless I have an attorney present. Am I free to go or do I need to call my attorney?""

Just because you have a right and it can protect you in many cases, does not mean that common sense should not be applied.

What about a less extreme scenario? Think of it like this:

A LEO pulls you over and as far as you know, you have done nothing illegal. The cop slowly walks up to your window.
YOU=""May I ask why you pulled me over, officer?""
LEO=""We received a call that the local bakery (five blocks away) was robbed at gunpoint and the robber fled in a vehicle that matches the one you are driving. May I ask where you are coming from and where you are headed?
YOU=""I have nothing to say unless I have an attorney present. Am I free to go or do I need to call my attorney?""

The same applies to a traffic stop. In my experience, 99% of the time, the officer doesn't want to search your vehicle ... he is looking for a panicked reaction. He is trying to discern if you have anything to hide ... you know, to try and keep people with illegal guns and drugs from doing all the bad things that they do.

Personally, being stopped in a car because I did something wrong (in my 68 years I have been stopped 5 times and I was wrong in every one of them) does not rise to the need for an attorney--only a need to be civil and respectful of an LEO who does not know who the heck you are except for the fact that you committed a traffic violation.

Well said and I couldn't agree with you more. :)

<snip> but it won't cut it in the People's Republic of South Carolina. You never know what you might say that will set off a police officer and then you end up dealing with a roid-raging overgrown schoolyard bully. <snip>

I stayed in SC (Beaufort and Columbia) for around two-three months and I was fortunate to never have run into that. Every cop that pulled me over was polite and professional ... and add to that I never got a ticket while there. I'm not sure if I was extremely lucky or if you have been extremely unlucky. Regardless, I hope your experiences change for the better!

<snip> but everything to do with 1. irritating leftists, and 2. reminding people of the socialistic/communistic direction Kalifornia is headed in. <snip>

Just wanted to thank you for doing anything to stand in the way of the extremely progressive mindset in Ca. :pleasantry:

I think you've painted a pretty good picture as to why you were being searched in the first place AND most likely why you dont hold a license to carry as a result.

Great way to draw conclusions! I STATED why I was searched and it was the only time in all the times I've been pulled over. And the reason I don't have a license is because when I was 19 (14-ish years ago) I broke a very serious law. Did I know better? Of course I did. The problem was, I didn't truly understand the consequences. That is why I don't have a license to carry and I am getting that fixed now. I could have done so for years and years now, but I have a baby on the way and my wife and I want a firearm both in the house and on our person.

I completely explained those things, so unless you are saying that I'm a 'bad' person ... I don't see the point to your post.

ConstitutionComeHome
 
I've seen the video and understand exactly where he is coming from. However, there is a big difference between a traffic stop and a direct criminal investigation that you may or may not be linked with.

From a legal standpoint, there isn't much difference. If a cop approaches you, it IS a criminal investigation. His job is to find anything you've done that is against the law, and arrest you or cite you for it.

Have you ever gone through a DUI checkpoint? Have you ever noticed how, even after it is well understood that you haven't been drinking, the cop asks you questions like "where are you coming from?" and "where are you going?"? The reason why is so he can detain you further if you seem nervous, or tell him that you've come or are going to a high-crime or high-drug area.

During a traffic stop, I've been asked if I had any guns, knives, flamethrowers or bombs in the car. This was before I ever owned a gun. I answered no, but remembered later that I had a pocket knife with me. Guess what - if he found that, I lied to a cop and that's a crime, even if it was completely unintentional.

So that's why you never talk to the police unless you are directed to by either your attorney or by a judge in a courtroom.

When the red and blue lights come on, it doesn't mean they're coming up to you for some friendly banter.
 
Hey Y'all: This is a really big merry go round. I do not carry my CCWP with me all the time (obviously when I am not CC). In the same vein, if I have it on me and am not CC there is no reason to show it. In SC, as stated, you must show your CCWP, if CC, when you show your drivers license--plain and simple--black and white--no excuses. Odds are if you are CC and you show the CCWP, the LEO will thank you and continue with your driving infraction or whatever. If he should ask to see firearm, I do not believe it is a requirement but, to me, it makes sense not to be negative or argumentative (ie I want to see your supervisor first). Just that much longer you sit in your car when you have better things to do. If it tweaks your legal ego, have at it.
 
Hey Y'all: This is a really big merry go round. I do not carry my CCWP with me all the time (obviously when I am not CC). In the same vein, if I have it on me and am not CC there is no reason to show it. In SC, as stated, you must show your CCWP, if CC, when you show your drivers license--plain and simple--black and white--no excuses. Odds are if you are CC and you show the CCWP, the LEO will thank you and continue with your driving infraction or whatever. If he should ask to see firearm, I do not believe it is a requirement but, to me, it makes sense not to be negative or argumentative (ie I want to see your supervisor first). Just that much longer you sit in your car when you have better things to do. If it tweaks your legal ego, have at it.


but...isn't it safer all around if nobody handles the firearm? When you hand a firearm to a friend to see it, you empty it first right? Handing a loaded firearm to somebody who may be unfamiliar with it just doesn't seem like a good idea...and I doubt LEO will allow you to handle it enough to unload it for safety. "I'd rather keep it holstered for everybody's safety" doesn't sound negative or argumentative.
 
Hey mrjam2jab: Sorry if my post was misunderstood. My main point is to just do whatever the LEO wants me to do. If, for some reason he wants to actually handle my firearm, I would ask him if he wants me to unload the firearm. Basically, whatever he wants, I will do. I'm just not going to get into a discussion of 2A, state laws, asking for a supervisor, etc etc. He is in charge, I do not feel my liberties are at stake, and if I have been stopped, more than likely I violated traffic laws so who in the heck am I to be crying about legalities.
 
Hey mrjam2jab: Sorry if my post was misunderstood. My main point is to just do whatever the LEO wants me to do. If, for some reason he wants to actually handle my firearm, I would ask him if he wants me to unload the firearm. Basically, whatever he wants, I will do. I'm just not going to get into a discussion of 2A, state laws, asking for a supervisor, etc etc. He is in charge, I do not feel my liberties are at stake, and if I have been stopped, more than likely I violated traffic laws so who in the heck am I to be crying about legalities.

Kelcarry A+++
mrjam2jab A+++

So, I live in Calif and I am not required to notify LEO I am CCW if stopped or approached. This is according to info given out in this fourm. It may or may not be true. However, the county that issued my CCW Permit requires you to notify. So I will.

First of all I am not afraid to talk to LEO's of any jurisdiction. I would perfer not to deal with LA City or Sheriff, San Francisco or Sacramento City/Sheriff. But that does not mean I am afraid of what they might do.

These folks have a very tough job to do. I'm sure not going to do something that makes it harder. I am not concerned that any LEO in Calif would trump up a charge just because I CCW. If I felt that way I would not have requested the permit in the first place.

At night the interior lights come on, the tinted windows (all 4 of them) come down. Hands are on the steering wheel. This is not because I am afraid of them. This is because I know that if I do these things their job is a bit easier. If you would just put yourself in their shoes once in a while I really think most of this 'never talk to the cops' stuff would go away. Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
 
Here in Nevada, your plates and CCW permit link up when he runs them. I think it's a good idea.

I have only been stopped once (random DUI check) in Florida (where I have a second home and resident CCW permit). I that instance, I placed both hands on the top of the steering wheel and informed the Highway Patrolman that I had a concealed firearm in my center console.

He asked me to step out of the car, where he checked my CCW and driver's license...also noting that I was not DUI. He didn't ask for my car registration, but thanked me for telling him about the firearm. I was on my way in five minutes.
 
Yes, tell the officer you are carring,Do you have to be sensitive too? both hand on the wheel, they appreciate that plus if they find out by accident it can get ugly, as far as the dmv flaging tags to identify us makes us prone to theft and puts us at risk to the bad guys!

Link Removed

Someone has already answered this question, and the answer depends on your State. Missouri requires no notification. Don't even mention it! When the officer comes up to your window he has already run your plates, and knows that you have a CCW. Put your hands on the top of the steering wheel where he can see them. Don't even, while the officer is approaching the vehicle, reach, lean, make sudden movement for your license, registration or insurance cards. When instructed by the officer to produce documentation, then tell him the location of the documents, not the gun. "Officer, my DL is in my back pocket; I am going to reach for my wallet." "The insurance papers are in the middle console." In Arkansas, you are required to notify, but only IF you are carrying. Again, hands on the wheel, "Officer, I am carrying; would you like to see my permit and DL?" I have read Massad Ayoob extensively, and one should never say "gun" to an officer during a stop. You may not be able to be an expert on every State's laws regarding CC, but you damn well better be an expert on the States you traverse, and periodically re-scan the handgunlaw.us information periodically to check for updates.
 
In MO, I don't believe that by running your plates, your CCW will show. Your CCW is on your ID card (if that is the way you went) and the number is the same as your DL so when he runs your DL he will know. Your license plates are not linked to your DL, or what if you are driving wife's car that is registered in her name? MO may be a 'not needed to notify' state, but for me, I will do as you have indicated and I will notify as a courtesy to LEO's doing a tough job. They never know what they are walking into. You are a law abiding citizen, why give LEO's any reason at all to hassle. Last thing I want to see is the LEO approaching my car with weapon drawn.
 
I have been stopped on 3 occasions since I started carrying in 2001 and presented my permit on 2 of those occasions. All 3 incidents resulted in warnings and no citations and all 3 were speeding related. My issuing authority does not require me to inform LEO that I am in possession of a firearm but my feeling is on most occasions it would be proper to inform. On the two times I did inform we ended up having a good short conversation regarding my carry weapon and both LEOs had never seen a CCW before.

The one occasion I did not inform was in Nevada and shortly after I had begun to carry. I was unsure of the proper or best way to inform so I let it go. When I do inform a LEO I hand the permit over with my DL and ask how to proceed, on both stops I was asked where it was and told to just leave where it was (I carry OWB @ 4:30-5:00 o'clock. I am unsure if being a CCW holder has helped with not being cited on the 2 stops but my experiences have been positive and comfortable both times.
 
spc - I've read many many reasons why CCW holders feel compelled to voluntarily advise a LEO that a weapon exists in the vehicle during traffic stops. Not one reason has convinced me that it's a good idea. 1. you have no desire to do anything illegal or harmful to the LEO 2. you've been pulled over for traffic issue, not a gun issue 3. it's your God-given right to carry even though you have to jump through your state's hoops to get legal. Don't take this the wrong way but the compullsion to volunteer one's carry status seems to stem from guilt. If enough CCW folks walk around wanting to spill their guts to LEOs unnecessarily then they probably WILL make it mandatory to reveal this info in the other 46 states - 2 states make it mandatory now (I think) and Wisconsin & Illinois don't count since the CCW doesn't exist for regular folks (I think). I read a month ago an LEO's response to this topic and his opinion was that he did not want to know a legal CCW holder's gun status because it complicated what would be a simple traffic stop. Have a good day.
 

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