Without meaning to sound condascending in any way, you need to get out and get some really good lethal force on force training under your belt. You are under a number of misconceptions as I have learned by reading the information and reports available and by taking whatever training has been available. First, "you will likely have to surrender possessions or die" - big fat lie. If the bad guy has decided not to leave any witnesses, my friend, you are already dead.
That's what I was trying to say. If someone gets the drop on you, having one in the chamber isn't likely to make any difference because you won't even have a chance to draw. The BG will get what he wants (unless you're the guy in Infidel's avatar :wink.
torontogunguy said:Worse yet, if you are within your home or with family, you may have the pleasure of watching your wife, mother, daughter or sister raped or gang raped before you get that bullet through your eye socket.
If you're at home, then you're probably not carrying, and "watching" the BG do his thing. This is an example of what I called "the second scenario". This BG probably did not enter silently, so you had time to become armed. But, perhaps the OP has no problem keeping one in the chamber when the gun is at home. The question was about while carrying.
torontogunguy said:What we are talking about here is fractions of a second and the simple ability to rack a round into the chamber while under life and death stress. THAT is why you carry with one in the chamber.
True. But, again I was submitting that not everyone wants to be that prepared. The discomfort with carrying with one in the chamber may outweigh their desire for "ultimate" readiness. They can decide to risk scenario one, and at least be prepared for scenario two.
To what extent have you protected your home against burglary? Could you have done more? Do you have burglar bars? High end alarm system? Deadbolts on all doors? Guard dog? A moat? Someone's choice to be less prepared is no more wrong than your choice to carry .xx cal versus .yy cal.
torontogunguy said:The last account I read (in great detail) has the good guy hit from behind by an old beat up car and the driver of that old beat up car get out and start walking towards the good guy's window. On arriving at the window, the good guy has already drawn his weapon and is holding it beside him out of sight, just in case... the bad guy turns out to be a bad guy after all... and the good guy sees a pistol coming up from behind the bad guy's back/buttocks, lifts his shaky hand and lets two go through the window, whereupon the bad guy walks back to his car, gets in and attempts to leave, hitting a light pole/tree (I forget) where he expires. Had the good guy drawn and racked a round in sight of the bad guy and the bad guy turned out to NOT be a bad guy, the good guy could have been charged with brandishing, "a class 6 felony in this jurisdiction" according to the account. Instead, he lived.
This case does not support carrying a round in the chamber. You had plenty of time to get the gun ready.
torontogunguy said:Next case, a convenience store owner who has been robbed at gunpoint in past and is a wee bit shell shocked. He is permitted to carry and is carrying a .38 revolver in his pocket. Funky looking guys walk into his store and he suspects no good has arrived again - puts his hand on the gun and holds it in his pocket. Bad guy walks up to him pretending to buy a chocolate bar and hauls out a HUGE knife and attempts to lunge at our good guy, who simply pulls the trigger six times, setting his pants on fire, hitting the bad guy exactly zero times. Bad guy exits stage left and is never seen again. When police arrive the store owner is worried that he hit the bad guy and is told there is no blood trail, the bad guy is likely in the next county and has probably taken up another line of work already... the cops are laughing about it. And so on. "Thank God I Had a Gun" is a marvellous book of real accounts just like the aforementioned - both sides of the fence to be fair - and is an invaluable aid to making your own life and death decisions.
This case does support keeping a round in the chamber. And, you said yourself, "making your own life and death decisions".
torontogunguy said:So, for the umpteenth time (and rest assured I don't have the spare time to be typing this in on a regular basis... I have lots of better things to be doing but want my fellow good guys to be safe, trained, and ready).... I spent the first TWO or THREE YEARS carrying with one in the chamber with some guns and not in the chamber with others. I am whittling my carry pieces down to just a few and the number one consideration is DO I FEEL COMFY CARRYING WITH ONE IN THE CHAMBER. If the answer is no - the gun is up for sale. Somewhere down the list (maybe second) is DOES IT CARRY WELL? And so on. I will NOT carry any longer without a round chambered, the gun cocked and ready to go. That limits your choices to guns like Glocks, etc. I also do not carry anything that has a thumb lock on it. I want to poing and pull the trigger. That's it. Just like a revolver.
I share your opinion. One in the chamber makes the most sense to me, too. My point is that not everyone is comfortable doing so, and that doesn't make them "wrong" or guilty of making a poor decision. Carrying without one in the chamber is NOT dumb or foolish - it may just be a compromise that an individual has to make to at least have some protection. Again, it's better to have some protection than none at all.
torontogunguy said:And just to bring the point home. The guy that was bumped from behind? That we ME. In Orlando Florida. I watched as the bad guy wobbled from his beat up pickup truck up to my side window and I had noplace to go. I was boxed in and I did not have a gun. I spent the longest minute of my life saying "yes sir" and "No sir" to his rantings (high on drugs) before the light turned green and I decided that if he lowered the biggest damn revolver I had ever looked down the barrel of away from my nose, I was gone and he was in my dust. Fortunately he did not have the wherewithall to start shooting... and I was gone. And my vacation was gone too as I spent it looking over my shoulder and throwing up.
Perhaps it was this incident that changed your position on the matter. You have valid reasons for your position. That still doesn't mean it works for everyone.
torontogunguy said:But the other comments are right too. If your discomfort at carrying with one in the tube is going to make you leave your gun at home, then by all means... you are better to have your gun along without one in the tube than leaving it at home.
Thanks for acknowledging that. That was the core of my point.
torontogunguy said:Time to do some homework methinks. It's not an easy decision but once you realize the difference between a stick and a gun you will have come to the right conclusion.
That's an unfair generalization. A gun without a chambered round is not always just a fancy stick. For the umpteenth time leasantry:, in some situations, yes - in others, not at all. The individual needs to decide how far he's comfortable with going to protect himself. Don't forget that there are many gun owners out there (myself included) who could but don't carry. Are we "wrong" for not carrying? The answer is no. We are just unwilling to go that far in the pursuit of self-protection. Maybe I'll decide it's worth the compromises necessary to carry. Maybe an incident will push me to that change of heart. Maybe the OP will be convinced to carry with one in the chamber. But it's his choice, and he's not wrong for choosing differently than you.