How Long Before You CC With a Bullet In the Chamber?

[torontogunguy]

I agree on the "as soon as you feel confident". You see I had just the opposite problem. I've been carrying a 1911 for almost 30 yrs. Got a new 45 with the decocker[and what have you and it took me almost 2 weeks to learn to trust it. :biggrin:
Peaceful

With all due respect:
(a) carrying a 1911 cocked and locked with one in the chamber means that (a) you are carrying with one in the chamber; (b) you have taken the double action portion of the 1911 and cocked it, turning it effectively into a single action pistol; and , (c) you have 'locked' it - to the extent that the lock is reliable it cannot be fired despite the strongest handheld trigger pull you may exert, say 500 pounds for argument's sake.

When carrying your new .45 with a decocker (Sig for instance) - you have simply taken a double action pistol and lowered the hammer, increasing the trigger pull from perhaps 2-4 pounds to perhaps 8 - 10 pounds and you should note that you do not have a safety engaged despite what Glock or the others with split triggers may like you to think.

Personally, I am now comfy both ways. I do not carry a 1911 as I do not believe they are reliable enough for me personally (even one FTF in 500 is too much for me). I carry Glocks and Sigs. The Glocks do not have a decocker so I go with the NY1 trigger modification to give me true double action trigger pull weight in the 8.5 pound range. The Sig P239 Tactical is an outstanding handgun and the decocker allows one to feed a round from the magazine or fire a round from the magazine and then decock it to true double action status. The trigger is not cocked and the associated trigger pull is much heavier, which I am comfy carrying one in the chamber with. I keep telling myself it is the same as my revolvers and it makes me happy.

There is another post on here that I have to take exception to... lemme see if I can find it.

Having read what you said I can FULLY empathize with your feelings as there is a BIG difference between being 'locked' and simply 'heavy trigger pull'. Glad you have gone with one in the chamber - after much research I have concluded it can mean the difference between life and death in many situations (read BIRD - The Concealed Handgun Manual and Thank God I had a Gun. THEY will open your eyes. Oh. And read Prof. Lott's stuff too.)

 

[Daugherty16]

I thought i was the only one!

Be careful with constant rechambering the same round. Dont do this too often. You can seat the projectile too far into the cartridge and cause a KF and injure yourself.

Had this happen once; since then when i load the chamber i ease the slide home instead of allowing the return spring to hammer it. I know, not supposed to do that. But since the round is already chambered, it doesn't need to be "hamered" up the ramp, and doing so prevents the slug from being pushed into the case. I still periodically eyeball the round with another from the mag just to be sure it hasn't "shrunk".

 

[MADnMO]

Had this happen once; since then when i load the chamber i ease the slide home instead of allowing the return spring to hammer it. I know, not supposed to do that. But since the round is already chambered, it doesn't need to be "hamered" up the ramp, and doing so prevents the slug from being pushed into the case. I still periodically eyeball the round with another from the mag just to be sure it hasn't "shrunk".

I read a post on some forum, maybe this one a long time ago. It is a lesson I still use today.

The first time I chamber a round I use a sharpie to mark the brass. The next time I have to unload and chamber another round I use a different round and mark the brass with a sharpie. After all 13 + 1 rounds have 3 marks on the brass they go to the range and I start the process over again.

It just made sense to me so I use it.

 

[Jeff Chance]

For me, it all depends on which gun I choose to carry and the type of holster it is in. Some places I go, there is always one chambered. My choice.

 

[JJFlash]

For me, it all depends on which gun I choose to carry and the type of holster it is in. Some places I go, there is always one chambered. My choice.

Jeff, aren't you worried that if the SHTF and you yanked that weapon, you might pull the trigger on an empty chamber?

 

[torontogunguy]

Jeff, aren't you worried that if the SHTF and you yanked that weapon, you might pull the trigger on an empty chamber?

With all due respect, I believe it is far more complex than a simple lapse in memory; more to the point, it is more of "am I in a situation where I am even able to chamber a round in time to save my life?".

Just a single example from the books I previously mentioned. Fellow gets bumped from behind and stops. Notices that the driver of the car that struck him is coming up and has his hand behind his back... then notices something that looks like a gun in that hand for a moment. He is belted in but has moved his paddle to the 1 o'clock position to be able to draw (whatever). The fellow makes it to his driver's side window and uses the butt of his gun to break it (which apparently has caused 'shock' value before and the carjackings have gone smootly). In this case, our victim has drawn his pistol with his right hand and has it sitting beside his seat ready to go. In the 'confusion' of the glass breaking and flying, our victim points and fires several times, both at the bleed out triangle and at the dead stop triangle. End of story, bad guy is dead as a doorknob at the side of the car and the victim, had he not had a round chambered, might not have survived to tell the tale.

These books have several other examples of reasons for carrying one chambered and either cocked and locked for single action or simply chambered and ready to go for a double action, like the Sigs, Glocks, etc.

Personally, I have heard far plenty 'nuff to be a believer. It took a little prodding but plenty of personal research on both the advantages and the dangers before I made my decision. There are very few occasions that I do not carry with one in the chamber. And I train with what I carry. The rest are for plinking and are slowly being whittled down.

Train, postulate, practice, and above all know what you need to do and do it without hesitation (and that takes plenty of training and practice lest you shoot some innocent). With great power comes great responsibility. When we begin to forget this we stand ourselves in harm's way. Canada made that mistake some years ago with the CANDU nuclear reactors and multiplied the world's nuclear powers significantly. The USA is presently making that same mistake by pulling in the reigns on our allies who would take out the nuclear capabilities of those that are not proven to be our allies and neighbors (Iran?).

Hopefully, the Chief will pull his head out of his arse and eradicate the nuclear potential of a nation that has the capability of delivering same. Not just as a nuclear blast... but as a dirty bomb. And if you don't understand the meaning or ramifications of 'dirty bomb' time to have a look via google. It is just as scarey as a nuclear blast but represents a slow and lingering death to those that are downwind.

Why do I bring this up? Just to say that even if every man, woman and child on the continent were armed and trained we could never stop such a thing. Food for thought. And I hope I am wrong but I believe that is the next move of our enemies. Take the numbers from 9/11 and add THREE ZERO's after same to get an idea and then remember that the results are chaos and anarchy in the subject area - making Katrina look like a sunshower and walk in the park.

Ditto for biological weapons by the way.

In the meantime, I will carry when and where I am legal to do so. And with one in the chamber. For whatever it's worth.

 

[kengrubb]

I carried a .38 snub and then a .357 snub for several years. After the Firearms Academy of Seattle, I started carrying my holstered Glock 23 with a round in the chamber right away.

Heavy trigger discussions give me the uncomfortable feeling that some folks are leading themselves down the path of violating Rule #3: Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.

It does not matter whether one is carrying a loaded revolver, a DAO pistol, a DA/SA pistol or a loaded Glock. All of them are in Condition 0. Pull trigger gun go boom.

A heavy trigger pull might give one some feeling of added safety, but methinks one would be kidding oneself. Danger abounds if you allow your finger to dawdle inside the trigger guard.

If and when TSHTF, whether it's a 2 pound or a 22 pound trigger, you'll pull it and the gun will go boom.

 

[kelcarry]

Hey kengrub: You are absolutely correct in reiterating comments about the gun trigger. Right behind "never point a gun at anyone regardless of perhaps knowing it is unloaded" is "never have finger on trigger unless ready to fire". In a CC situation, it is even more complex because of location of gun and immediacy of retrieval--practice, practice--basic rules of gun safety must be rote--if not, you may get more than you bargained for if you think that "1 in the chamber" is a great idea even though your handling procedures are less than perfect.

 

[kengrubb]

"never point a gun at anyone regardless of perhaps knowing it is unloaded"

I'd have to disagree and say "wrong answer" on that one.

Rule I: All Guns Are Always Loaded
Rule II: Never Let The Muzzle Cover Anything You Are Not Willing To Destroy

 

[kelcarry]

Hey kengrubb: Thanks for the lesson. Agree 100%

 

[kengrubb]

Hey kengrubb: Thanks for the lesson. Agree 100%

No problem, but I can't claim credit for it. Those are Link Removed.

 

[RPB]

I Have been carrying for about a month and i have NOT loaded a round yet,This may be odd to some but to me i'm wondering if i need to give myself more time.
I'm just now getting used to the Holster and weight.we don't have kids so i'm not locking up my gun anymore it stays close to me .

WHen i'm carrying i think about what if something happens and i need to fire (we are talking intent and ability is there)...and if i pull my XD i have to rack it....now i'm thinking is it time to load a round.

Any Advice ?

And if you have a "failure to feed" on that first round, you'll have even more time before you decide to fire a round.... maybe.
Leaving the gun at home would allow even more time to drive home and get it first.
I'm not being sardonic here, just trying to make a point..... How much time will the bad guy give you when you call "time out?" ."Excuse me a second while I try to load a round, making a noise racking the slide which will attract your attention to me, just ignore me a minute please, I'm just a figment of your imagination, WAIT, I'm almost done .... ok, now I'm ready, let's start over where you say "This is a robbery"

 

[Bullitt]

WHen i'm carrying i think about what if something happens and i need to fire (we are talking intent and ability is there)...and if i pull my XD i have to rack it....now i'm thinking is it time to load a round.

Any Advice ?

Some guns seem safer to me to carry with one in the chamber. I would carry my Taurus PT92 cocked and locked any time without any fear of an AD. Other guns - not so much. But, those new to carrying firearms are still on a learning / comfort curve with their lethal weapon. I'm one. So, I understand your reluctance.

If the discomfort of having one in the chamber keeps you from carrying at all, then by all means don't do it. It's better to have the gun one slide rack away from firing than not having one at all.

I don't carry, currently. But, I think about it alot. If and when I do, I will carry mine with one in the chamber. It just makes sense to me. Again, the design of the gun has something to do with it.

But, I see two separate categories of encounters that one is preparing for - the sudden attack of a robber or whatever in which you're in a quick-draw situation, maybe even being shot at, and the "school shooter" scenario where you're not being attacked directly, but are in a position to take action to protect yourself and others.

I gather that few do well in the first situation, regardless of training. But, to have a chance, you must carry with one in the chamber. Period. If you want to prepare for that, then you have no choice.

I have no problem with preparing only for the second situation. You can acknowledge that you will likely have to surrender posessions or die should the first situation happen to you. For the second, you don't need one in the chamber and you have time to draw and remove the safety and rack the slide.

Put another way, it largely depends on "how prepared" you want to be.

 

[MADnMO]

Always be prepared. Carry with one in the chamber. Just keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

 

[oldvet53]

i always carry one in the chamber, my bursa thunder9pro ultra compact has a de-cocker and is double action on the first shot.

 

[torontogunguy]

Some guns seem safer to me to carry with one in the chamber. I would carry my Taurus PT92 cocked and locked any time without any fear of an AD. Other guns - not so much. But, those new to carrying firearms are still on a learning / comfort curve with their lethal weapon. I'm one. So, I understand your reluctance.

If the discomfort of having one in the chamber keeps you from carrying at all, then by all means don't do it. It's better to have the gun one slide rack away from firing than not having one at all.

I don't carry, currently. But, I think about it alot. If and when I do, I will carry mine with one in the chamber. It just makes sense to me. Again, the design of the gun has something to do with it.

But, I see two separate categories of encounters that one is preparing for - the sudden attack of a robber or whatever in which you're in a quick-draw situation, maybe even being shot at, and the "school shooter" scenario where you're not being attacked directly, but are in a position to take action to protect yourself and others.

I gather that few do well in the first situation, regardless of training. But, to have a chance, you must carry with one in the chamber. Period. If you want to prepare for that, then you have no choice.

I have no problem with preparing only for the second situation. You can acknowledge that you will likely have to surrender posessions or die should the first situation happen to you. For the second, you don't need one in the chamber and you have time to draw and remove the safety and rack the slide.

Put another way, it largely depends on "how prepared" you want to be.

Without meaning to sound condascending in any way, you need to get out and get some really good lethal force on force training under your belt. You are under a number of misconceptions as I have learned by reading the information and reports available and by taking whatever training has been available. First, "you will likely have to surrender possessions or die" - big fat lie. If the bad guy has decided not to leave any witnesses, my friend, you are already dead. Worse yet, if you are within your home or with family, you may have the pleasure of watching your wife, mother, daughter or sister raped or gang raped before you get that bullet through your eye socket. What we are talking about here is fractions of a second and the simple ability to rack a round into the chamber while under life and death stress. THAT is why you carry with one in the chamber. The last account I read (in great detail) has the good guy hit from behind by an old beat up car and the driver of that old beat up car get out and start walking towards the good guy's window. On arriving at the window, the good guy has already drawn his weapon and is holding it beside him out of sight, just in case... the bad guy turns out to be a bad guy after all... and the good guy sees a pistol coming up from behind the bad guy's back/buttocks, lifts his shaky hand and lets two go through the window, whereupon the bad guy walks back to his car, gets in and attempts to leave, hitting a light pole/tree (I forget) where he expires. Had the good guy drawn and racked a round in sight of the bad guy and the bad guy turned out to NOT be a bad guy, the good guy could have been charged with brandishing, "a class 6 felony in this jurisdiction" according to the account. Instead, he lived. Next case, a convenience store owner who has been robbed at gunpoint in past and is a wee bit shell shocked. He is permitted to carry and is carrying a .38 revolver in his pocket. Funky looking guys walk into his store and he suspects no good has arrived again - puts his hand on the gun and holds it in his pocket. Bad guy walks up to him pretending to buy a chocolate bar and hauls out a HUGE knife and attempts to lunge at our good guy, who simply pulls the trigger six times, setting his pants on fire, hitting the bad guy exactly zero times. Bad guy exits stage left and is never seen again. When police arrive the store owner is worried that he hit the bad guy and is told there is no blood trail, the bad guy is likely in the next county and has probably taken up another line of work already... the cops are laughing about it. And so on. "Thank God I Had a Gun" is a marvellous book of real accounts just like the aforementioned - both sides of the fence to be fair - and is an invaluable aid to making your own life and death decisions.

So, for the umpteenth time (and rest assured I don't have the spare time to be typing this in on a regular basis... I have lots of better things to be doing but want my fellow good guys to be safe, trained, and ready).... I spent the first TWO or THREE YEARS carrying with one in the chamber with some guns and not in the chamber with others. I am whittling my carry pieces down to just a few and the number one consideration is DO I FEEL COMFY CARRYING WITH ONE IN THE CHAMBER. If the answer is no - the gun is up for sale. Somewhere down the list (maybe second) is DOES IT CARRY WELL? And so on. I will NOT carry any longer without a round chambered, the gun cocked and ready to go. That limits your choices to guns like Glocks, etc. I also do not carry anything that has a thumb lock on it. I want to poing and pull the trigger. That's it. Just like a revolver.

And just to bring the point home. The guy that was bumped from behind? That we ME. In Orlando Florida. I watched as the bad guy wobbled from his beat up pickup truck up to my side window and I had noplace to go. I was boxed in and I did not have a gun. I spent the longest minute of my life saying "yes sir" and "No sir" to his rantings (high on drugs) before the light turned green and I decided that if he lowered the biggest damn revolver I had ever looked down the barrel of away from my nose, I was gone and he was in my dust. Fortunately he did not have the wherewithall to start shooting... and I was gone. And my vacation was gone too as I spent it looking over my shoulder and throwing up.

Today, I do NOT travel to any state that will not recognize my concealed carry permits and I do not carry without a gun that is ready to fire pretty much on a good grip and a trigger pull. My favourites are my Glock 26 and Glock 30 with NY1 triggers, my HK P7M8 squeeze cocker that I can carry in my pocket fearlessly, and my new Sig P239 Tactical 9mm, which has a decocker - first pull is 8# and then 3# after that until the gun is decocked again. The only one I am comfy with carrying in my pocket is my HK P7M8 and my P7PSP maybe. All others are IWB or preferably OWB if possible. I own a $150 gunbelt and buy only the best of holster designs (not necessarily the most expensive) so that when I reach the holster (and the gun) are where I left them always. And I practice regularly. And read. And take lethal force courses. And am of the mindset that if someone is prepared to threaten me I am prepared to, if in fear of my life or those of my loved ones, take lethal force action without thinking... a reflex action. A fraction of a second.

We have also had TWO home invasions (we live in a very good area of town by the way), the last one two years ago by thugs armed with 4 foot pry bars and handguns at 3 a.m. on our front doorsteps and high as kites on drugs I presume. The 911 operator said to find a safe place to gather the family to which I responded, "Lady, there is NO safe place in this house if these guys come through my front door.... and they are going out feet first." I had already retrieved my G30 from its Gunvault and racked a .45 round into it. Why do I even mention this? To say I have the world's worst luck? No. Just to say that sometimes you will have time to rack a round like I did. And like I did NOT earlier.

So. You want to talk about confusion? You want to talk about a whole lot of thinking before making a decision? I was armed with all the information and all of the experience one could ever hope for in making my decision. I carry with one racked. I carry with at least an 8# pull on the first trigger pull (excepting the squeeze cockers which are inherently safe as safe can be). Oh, and I carry with two spare magazines on my weak side at all times in top quality leather covered holders when 'dressed' and in nyon holders when wearing jeans.

As far as this party is concerned, after years of research and thought and experiences that I would not wish on anyone.... there is only one way to carry and you need to prepare for that method of carry in whatever way you think best and in whatever way will make you feel comfortable. And that carry method is with one in the chamber and with the gun cocked (no lock!) 8# trigger pull or squeeze cocked, etc. Only you will know ultimately what makes you comfortable carrying with one in the chamber and I can assure you that I would NEVER carry with one in the chamber and anything less than an 8# trigger pull on the first shot at least.

But the other comments are right too. If your discomfort at carrying with one in the tube is going to make you leave your gun at home, then by all means... you are better to have your gun along without one in the tube than leaving it at home. The first rule of self defence is to bring your gun along to the party, remembering that you can be disarmed and/or killed from at least twenty feet even when you are aware you are about to be attacked. I have had it done to me in training and it is a fact. For instance, the only thing the bad guy needs to do to render your revolver impotent during a battle is to grab it by the cylinder. Cylinder does not rotate and you might as well be carrying a stick. In a semi, all the bad guy needs to do is get that slide back 1/4" and you are carrying a stick. Still think you have time to rack a round should you need to? Perhaps. I am not willing to take that chance. I would rather buy a gun that I am totally comfortable carrying with one in the chamber.

Time to do some homework methinks. It's not an easy decision but once you realize the difference between a stick and a gun you will have come to the right conclusion. Good luck to you and above all, be safe. You don't have to look for trouble - it will find you and it will find you in the most ungodly and improbable locations, like in your home, at the stoplight, in front of Disney, you name it.

Be safe my friend. Be safe.

 

[bbarton713]

Time to do some homework methinks. It's not an easy decision but once you realize the difference between a stick and a gun you will have come to the right conclusion. Good luck to you and above all, be safe. You don't have to look for trouble - it will find you and it will find you in the most ungodly and improbable locations, like in your home, at the stoplight, in front of Disney, you name it.

Be safe my friend. Be safe.

Just wanted to say that I enjoy reading everything that you post on this forum, TGG.

 

[torontogunguy]

Thanks for the kind words. I just want to try and clear up some misconceptions and urge all like-minded individuals to get as much knowledge under their belts as possible so that should the occasion arise, they are ready and it is reflexive and not something that requires thinking.

The two books I mention earlier have well-researched real-life accounts of lethal force encounters and are probably the best resource material I have read ever, bar none.

I keep re-reading them and coming up with more tidbits and every one is a gem. A diamond.

In closing, let me say that to have a gun and not be able to use it can only be as bad as not having a gun when in need of one. And I speak from real live experience here. I was with my family in Orlando and we were lucky to escape with our lives. Truly. I never would have had an opportunity to rack a round and would have been fortunate to safely get a round off to stop the aggression at my car window.

Be comfortable with what you carry and how you carry it, but do not be afraid to change to a pistol that affords you sufficient comfort to carry it 'hot' and ready to do its job. Spend the money you need to. Your life may depend on it one day.

One other thing that I have not read anywhere nor heard in training and am wondering what the general thought is.... protect your assets. Even escaping a criminal charge carries no guarantee that you will not be sued by the dead or wounded perpetrator's family in civil court. Does anyone cover their assets by moving them into a spouse's name or into the name(s) of their children with hidden power of attorney locked away safely? There are, of course, many ways to protect one's assets but does anyone think about doing this? (As a matter of interest I have done so and the actions in my jurisdiction need to be taken sufficiently in advance of any lawsuit in order to preserve them otherwise they are perceived as a 'sham' and are open to attack).

And one last thing and I promise I am outa here. Don't believe that because you are at home that you are any safer than you are on the street. In our last home invasion the two perps were armed and had 4 foot pry bars. High as a kite. They were taken down by LEO's on our front doorstep attempting to pry open our front door. I had already taken up arms and the LEO's took their time before knocking on our door out of courtesy. Here's the point. Our doors are half glass. Surrounded by glass windows (no bars). Had the bad guys wanted their way in, they could have been in and at us in a matter of ten seconds or less. There is NO WAY we would have been able to arm ourselves in time in our jurisdiction as our guns are trigger locked AND unloaded AND locked in a combo lock container. I often go to sleep with a charged magazine in my pyjama pockets, with the combo trigger lock one digit off being open and with combo lock gunsafe (a GUNVAULT) set to 1-2-3-4 to get it open really fast. Still, the best I can do in the dark is several seconds. Does not give one much time to gather the family under cover, etc. So we are now thinking about speeding things up in the house as well and have 'hardened' our points of entry. The doors have deadbolts of course, but also have 'flip locks' on them or 'floor pins' to slow down entry. Still we are talking about seconds here and I am in a jurisdiction where keeping a loaded handgun or shotgun by the bed is not a legal option. So guys, keep this in mind as well. This is not all about having the biggest gun, the fastest gun, laser sights, etc. You need to think in terms of TOTAL protection. Perimeter alarm system. One button to light up the outside of the house like daylight. Panic buttons that are monitored. And man's best friend.. a well trained dog. Our dog saved our hides in the last attempted home invasion by barking at three a.m. at which point, seeing the threat, we prepared for it (to defend ourselves) dialled 911 and pushed the alarm system panic button which lit our house up like daylight and set of a 120dB siren that must have popped the bad guys' earwax out. But being high as kites they just kept prying away (never did even bust a piece of glass in the process). So while educating yourself, get some good education and advice on TOTAL home security. Bars are more expensive than film these days... both are not without their drawbacks and so we have neither (don't want to look like a prison... don't want a blurry view of the outside...don't want to spend ten grand doing it either). There are lots of things you can do. My humble opinion from experience. FROM experience guys. Get yourself a non -shedding, smallish, VERY LOUD BARKING and well trained dog. Our dog NEVER barks except when we are playing, training or have someone at the permimeter of the house (i.e. within our gates). Regretably, this also includes squirrels but you cannot have your cake and eat it too... and we are working on the squirrel thing.

Sorry for taking up so much bandwidth. This, as you can probably tell, is a very passionate subject with me and for very good cause.

Safety first. Be smart. Be prepared. Be safe above all else.

Our first home invasion, by the way, was when I was a teen. Hearing your younger sister scream at the intrusion into her bedroom at 3 a.m. is a sound that you will never, ever get out of your head my friends. And don't think that because you live on the "right side of the tracks" that it makes ANY difference. All of our assaults/aggessions took place in mighty fine neighborhoods. It doesn't make a lick of difference. We have always taken the time to get to know our neighbors. THAT makes a difference too. Let them know when you are going away. Introduce them to your family and friends. When the moving van pulls into your driveway and starts loading up while you are on vacation it is your neighbors that are going to know they shouldn't be there. Think "overall protection". Not just handguns.

The good Lord willing, you will never have to call upon yourself to take that lethal force action that is now a reflex, right?

 

[FSorace]

The two books I mention earlier have well-researched real-life accounts of lethal force encounters and are probably the best resource material I have read ever, bar none.

I found "Thank God I Had a Gun" in your post.....what was the title of the second book? I must be reading right past it.

 

[come-and-take-it-FL]

One in the chamber, safety on from the very first day I CC'd. However, I already had a great familiarity and comfort in doing so due to extensive training and experience with weapons.

For me it comes down to why you CCW. Most CC because they have acknowledged the dangers that are real and present in their daily world. No one hopes to ever have to use deadly force. But, it is a very real possibility. Therefore, being fully trained and ready to act IF called on to do so is of utmost importance. You won't always have time to rack the slide and feed one into the chamber. My advice is to train with your weapon to the highest level of proficiency and confidence you can achieve. Be prepared for the fight if it ever does come your way.

Believe it or not... being comfortable, confident and skilled with your sidearm can deescalate a situation without a shot ever having been fired. BUT, if you find yourself in a situation where action IS required, you'll want to be prepared to the very best of your ability for that precise moment. Training is key. Here's another thread for more on skill and training.

For me... it has always been a full mag(13)+1 in the chamber!