How Long Before You CC With a Bullet In the Chamber?

[killjoy]

round in the chamber

I agree with the others that said to wait till you are comfortable and ready for that step. Once you get there you will know.

 

[oldvet53]

how long

Okay. I am stumped. Always thought hardball was the standard NATO round by convention.

PLEEEEZ explain to me the D.R.T. round. And why it is not a standard L.E. round over here? I have studied accounts of perps with 15 rounds center mass who continued to function long enough to kill L.E.O.'s. In fact, I read just this month about a perp that was shot THRU THE HEART that managed to turn and walk half a block before collapsing (They surmise it was the drugs in his system that kept him going). It was a single shot BTW; the shooter, although 'no billed' by the Grand Jury eventually, was indeed arrested and charged with Murder, and even after being 'no billed' had a heck of a time getting her handgun back such that her sister gifted her a replacement. In the end, if I have my stories straight, cuz I love to read these and find them educational... they realized that the blood spatter was on the INSIDE of the doorway and not the outside. Bingo, castle doctrine, self defense shooting, $25,000 later you are free to go.

Anyway, back to the point of this post. Will someone please educate me as what a D.R.T. (dead right there) round might be as I have never seen one and would love to be able to carry same. I could cut a fortune in range time spent on triple tapping two in the CV triangle and one in the 'dead stop' triange taking out the cerebral cortex. Every wee bit of my training points to the ONLY dead stop shot as being a cerebral cortex shot, but if I can improve odds with better ammo I'm good to go with that too.

D.R.T. is dynamic resurch technoligys and is located in MO., you can go to there website and get good info. these rounds are being used by leo and secret service and personal security personel in high risk enviroments. and yes they have been kept hush hush for the past 6-8yrs. about them being used in iraq and afganistan by our troops, the troops love them and call them dead right there.leasantry:

 

[oldvet53]

Frangible rounds, if I am not mistaken, are prohibited in armed conflict - we are restricted to hardball if I am not mistaken for handguns anyway. (Of course one raises the question of armour piercing, etc.... but I was under the impression that hardball was the only legal round for doing business). Comments?

Frangible, of course, makes sense in many situations, but I personally would not use a frangible round for self defense. Just too much energy loss when the thing crumbles from what I am reading. I'll stick with Gold Dots or some of the newer stuff in something I can place accurately.

As one of the trainers from the SAS said... if you can place a ten shot magazine in a pie plate at 25 feet as fast as you can pull the trigger you have a round that is going to do you well in self defense, starting at 9mm.

Having said that, I have no problem with 9mm. engineered SD rounds, but given my choice will go with something a bit heftier, .40, .357Sig, .45ACP in +P or +P+ if the gun will handle the pressure and if I can handle ten rounds in the pie plate as fast as I can let them off.

One needs to remember that there is a very fine line between letting of ten rounds rapidly and doing a very well placed double or triple tap slowly enough to place the rounds where they need to be. Shot placement is far more critical than quantity as many of the incident reports will show, where both sides fired a full magazine at one another with zero hits at ten feet. Sound crazy? Sounded crazy to me too. But it is, believe it or not, true.

It takes tremendous training, practice and willpower to slow things down just enough to place your shots properly as opposed to 'spraying'. And to me a frangible round is akin to firing a shotgun shell made for trap shooting where you are going to find less than desirable penetration and certainly not the penetration that FBI testing and reports tell us is essential in CQB.

And then on top of all of that we have to consider what time of year it is, what the weather is going to be (is the bad guy going to be wearing a heavy leather coat) and so on. I would love to be able to carry a hefty .45ACP +P or +P+ all the time but I know that is just not practical.

Not as simple as it seems I am afraid and much research, training and practice is advisable BEFORE finding oneself in a 'situation' (and I can assure you that it is a whole lot different shooting at IPSC/IDPA targets than it is when someone is shooting back at you, even in the dark). Keep in mind that your first shot is going to reveal you... your training should be teaching you to practice shooting at that target while you are moving (unfortunately, most ranges do not permit this type of practice unless you are a LEO or at a specialized range.)

using a.50 cal. against is also not suposed to be used against anything but equipment, but they told me when i was in the army i was told web gear was considered equipment. also how do you explain the barret .50 cal. sniper rifels? the enemy doesn't follow convention, as per the nva/vc in nam, this is not conventional warfare as was the case in ww2. you can not win by playing by the rules when your opponent does not!:biggrin:

 

[kengrubb]

Sorry. Your latter safety is a pet peeve of mine. Sure, there are plenty of guys that carry day in and day out with a 3.5 pound trigger and never have an issue but I am NOT going to be one of them. Ever. My cousin took his hand off after twenty years of Glocking. By accident. Never mind.

I much prefer something like a SIG where the first round fired is at 8# and then you are at 3# for subsequent rounds (for instance). If I am Glocking, with one in the tube, I am using a Glock with a NY1 trigger that gives me about an 8# pull and I am happy with that.

Only Glocks with 3.5 pound triggers are the 34, 35, and one or two others. Standard Glock triggers are 5 pounds.

You can argue over whether 5 versus 8 pounds is gonna make any difference, even if you start inserting bizarre what ifs like a pencil poke, although I'm still unclear as to how a pencil is gonna discharge a holstered Glock. I'm just not seeing the issue.

There are mountains and there are molehills. This issue seems more of an amoeba hole.

 

[Alpha]

Chamber

I say it all depends on the holster when I am carrying on the side I have one in the chamber. When I am carrying with my pistolwear which does not protest the trigger as well as a tradtional holster I keep the chamber empty. Double action usually helps with the mistakes.

 

[Les Maynard]

I am comfortable carrying my 1911's cocked and locked.

 

[-06]

I do not carry any pistol that does not have an external safety loaded. I do not trust any "safety" to keep the hammer off the round. That is the main reason I only have(carry) ones with a hammer, half cock, and thumb safety. I am not a gunslinger and do not care for only a finger "safety".

 

[Islander]

I agree with G50AE. Carry a Glock. Almost impossible to make it fire unless you actually pull the trigger. When you do pull the trigger, it goes bang virtually every time.

I have always carried one in the chamber, and none of my carry guns of "external safeties". High trigger pull is my safety on the LCP, and my holster with trigger gaurd makes the Glock even safer.

 

[6shootercarry]

The Smith and Wesson M&P pistol functions the same as the Glock in that it will not fire unless the trigger is pulled. I've added the Apex Tactical, Action Enhancement Kit and tested it violently. Rubber mallet strikes to simulate dropping, shaking it violently. No fire unless the trigger is pulled.

With the striker block feature, even if the sear breaks it will not allow the pin to protrude from the breech face. This safety can be tested with a snap cap and a small piece of paper inserted between the breech face and the snap cap. If you do manage to get the sear to break and the striker block is in place you will see no dimple in the paper.

I've been carrying both the 45 and 40c versions for close to 2 years with sear modifications, no problems..

 

[Ed Hamberger]

I agree with the others, the best gun safety is "Keep your finger off the trigger" I carry DAO Pistols and I always have one in the chamber. The BG isn't going to wait for you to draw, rack and aim... you need every edge you can muster in a gun fight, and carrying one in the chamber ready to fire is but just one. :yu:

 

[JSDinTexas]

A Happy Glock is a Hot Glock

As soon as I learned not to stick my finger in the trigger hole when I grabbed it.
Wouldn't carry a Glock if it wasn't hot.

 

[OldOwl]

I have two CC autos. I can pull both of them from the holster release the safety and rack the slide in the dark in a fraction of a second longer than just drawing it. The reason I never leave one in the pike is because if somebody should ever catch me totally off guard and knock me silly with a blind sider, and get control of my gun, it gives me half a chance to regain my composure and regain control before they can figure out how to rack and take the safety off. Some people might never figure that out. The safety for myself is worth the fraction of a second to me.

 

[mappow]

Cocked & Locked with my 1911A1. It's how it was designed. No other weapon has proved its reliability more over the decades.

 

[p95_9mm]

I will be carrying my Ruger P95 and it has a decocker on it so i can have one in the chamber and not have to worry about it going off and i have practiced with the safety/decocker and i feel i can carry with one in and put the lever to fire while i raise the gun up!

 

[astevens1956]

Cocked and locked. Otherwise, what's the point? You want to conceal carry. Then carry a rock. Choose a firearm that you control, not one that controls you. Be prepared to pull the trigger and eliminate the threat should the need arise. If not, stay out of the way.

 

[SC Tiger]

I think I went a few weeks without carrying my 1911 in condition 1. I then switched to a revolver and loaded all the chambers, and THEN to a PM9 and LCP. On both of those I carry with a round chambered. The long DAO (though it may not technically be DAO) pull makes it safer IMO. Carrying the 1911 C&L is safe but I've always been taught to never trust a mechanical safety so it kind of messes with me. I recently sold that one so it's no longer an issue (not because of C&L but because I didn't trust it and can't afford to have a safe queen).

Something to consider on mouse guns (Kel-Tec P3AT, Ruger LCP, Kahr PM9, etc) is that, with the reduced slide mass they don't always chamber a round reliably if you rack the slide manually, since any riding of the slide at all will cause it to lose too much energy. Kahr actually recommends using the slide stop. Keep this in mind when you decide to carry a loaded chamber or not.

You state you carry an XD, which should not have this problem but remember when the time comes you will likely be nervous (if not outright scared sh!tless - no shame in it) and fine motor skills typically leave the body when you get nervous. You may not be able to reliably rack the slide.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I have two CC autos. I can pull both of them from the holster release the safety and rack the slide in the dark in a fraction of a second longer than just drawing it. The reason I never leave one in the pike is because if somebody should ever catch me totally off guard and knock me silly with a blind sider, and get control of my gun, it gives me half a chance to regain my composure and regain control before they can figure out how to rack and take the safety off. Some people might never figure that out. The safety for myself is worth the fraction of a second to me.

Why don't police officers carry that way?