How Long Before You CC With a Bullet In the Chamber?


Well said Daugherty. We've got to keep in mind that we are generally in reactionary mode when drawing on a live human being and so speed counts - fractions of a second count. Your fine motor skills are going to be suffering in the situation and racking a slide, while it can indeed be practiced perhaps to perfection, will add fractions of a second to your readiness delay at best and at worst... well, a wobbly racked slide is something that pretty much everyone has experienced and you don't want a round jammed in the process. That can be the difference between life and death or grievous bodily harm.

I have become comfy with my baby Glocks being carried with one in the chamber but not with the lighter trigger pull. And my preference is for my Sigs which can be decocked safely and have an even heavier trigger pull. My very favourites, although I find them too heavy to carry, are my HK P7M8's and a few that have grip and thumb safeties, like my XD's.
 

CC'd for the first time today. I've been carrying around the house chambered for a while now, so it didn't feel anymore awkward in public.

As long as you never get complacent, one in the chamber shouldn't be an issue. :no:
 
I Have been carrying for about a month and i have NOT loaded a round yet,This may be odd to some but to me i'm wondering if i need to give myself more time.

I carried 10+0 in my Glock30 for the first 10 years (full magazine, no round in the chamber).

WHen i'm carrying i think about what if something happens and i need to fire (we are talking intent and ability is there)...and if i pull my XD i have to rack it....now i'm thinking is it time to load a round.

I sat through another CFP class recently and the instructor ran though some scenarios and statistics, and I came to realize, in most altercations where drawing my sidearm is necessary, I may not have enough time to draw and acquire my target before my target is "on me"... and carrying "unloaded" (no round in the chamber) means I'd still have to rack a round... which would take even more time.

Add to the timing factor that I may have one of my hands occupied (fending off an assailant's weapon, or distancing myself from him with an out-stretched arm), or may have an injured limb, and may not be able to use both hands to rack the slide, and it becomes even more important that all I have to do is "point and click".

After that class I've carried with a round in the chamber everywhere that I carry my sidearm.

we don't have kids so i'm not locking up my gun anymore it stays close to me.

I have small children, every one of them knows that I have a gun, they know where I keep it, they know that it's usually on my hip. They also know how dangerous it can be. They know that if they are ever EVER curious about it, want to see it, want to touch it that they can at ANY time... BUT, Mom or Dad has to be there with them to make sure they handle it safely. It's not a novelty or curiosity to them any more. It's a tool that Dad hopes he never has to use.

That said, when I store it overnight it's "Utah unloaded" full magazine, no round in the chamber.

I'm just now getting used to the Holster and weight.

That's great! Take some time and get used to it. Get used to the holster, the weight, and the fact that you have the added responsibility of that tool with you.

It took me a long time before I didn't feel "uncomfortable" carrying concealed.

It took me a long time before I didn't feel "uncomfortable" carrying fully loaded.

I'm still getting used to open-carrying.

You're not "odd" by carrying "unloaded". Carry the way that you feel best suits you. Ask questions, do research (like you did by posting your question), and find out if you need to change "what suits you" in favor of a better practice, then decide if you're willing to do so.

- JoeLevi.com, Link Removed
 
As long as you never get complacent, one in the chamber shouldn't be an issue. :no:

To back up your statement, ALWAYS follow the four-rules!

  1. NEVER put your finger inside the trigger-guard until you're ready to fire
  2. NEVER point a gun at something that you're not willing to kill or destroy
  3. Identify your target AND everything beyond it
  4. ALWAYS treat EVERY gun as if it is loaded

- Joe Levi, Link Removed
 
To back up your statement, ALWAYS follow the four-rules!

  1. NEVER put your finger inside the trigger-guard until you're ready to fire
  2. NEVER point a gun at something that you're not willing to kill or destroy
  3. Identify your target AND everything beyond it
  4. ALWAYS treat EVERY gun as if it is loaded

- Joe Levi, Link Removed

These are the rules. Keep in mind that in many situations the assailant will have already targeted you and acquired you in their sights. Movement, distance and speed to reaction are what may save your life.
 
I started carrying with one in the chamber as soon as I started carrying.....First carry weapon was a Browning with External safety.......after that I switched to a Glock model 23......Only external is the trigger safety.....took me a little time b4 I was comfy carrying with one in the chamber........now I carry the same pistol on a daily basis with one in the pipe.....no concerns...
 
I Have been carrying for about a month and i have NOT loaded a round yet,This may be odd to some but to me i'm wondering if i need to give myself more time.
I'm just now getting used to the Holster and weight.we don't have kids so i'm not locking up my gun anymore it stays close to me .

WHen i'm carrying i think about what if something happens and i need to fire (we are talking intent and ability is there)...and if i pull my XD i have to rack it....now i'm thinking is it time to load a round.

Any Advice ?

How long did I wait to load a round........However long it took me to put the holster on. The first day I carried I loaded a round. I carry a GLOCK 17 all the time and I carry loaded all the time. If the SHTF I don't know if I will have the presence of mind to rack the slide nor do I want to even worry about it. Its like a mouse, point click and things happen......
 
How long did I wait to load a round........However long it took me to put the holster on. The first day I carried I loaded a round. I carry a GLOCK 17 all the time and I carry loaded all the time. If the SHTF I don't know if I will have the presence of mind to rack the slide nor do I want to even worry about it. Its like a mouse, point click and things happen......

If unsteady with carrying one in the chamber you might consider carrying a Sig with a decocker so your first pull is 8 pounds and subsequent pulls are 4 pounds (guesstimate) or replacing your Glock trigger with a NY1 trigger which I believe is about 7 or 8 pounds and gives the added reliability of a better spring system (not that the Glock is unreliable). All NYPD LEOs must carry with the NY1 trigger installed I believe and the reason is that there were accidental discharges with the standard Glock trigger pull. Having said that, I will repeat what I said earlier and that was if I were carrying OWB in a duty holster aimed at the ground I might be much more inclined to just carry with the standard Glock trigger pull; however, if I am carry deeply concealed and aimed at ME (which is very likely) then I want a heavier trigger pull for the first round.... after that first round I know I am out of the holster and I don't mind a 4 or 5 pound trigger pull.

See 'the rules' above. Don't aim at anything that you don't want to destroy and that includes your jewels, arteries, flesh, feet, etc. Somewhere you will find online pix of two unlucky fellows who did not beat the odds and one shows damage inflicted on his hand by a 9mm Gold Dot; the other damage inflicted on his foot by a hollow point. Gruesome to say the least.

We have a relative who managed to shoot himself in the hand after 20 years of very safe handling and the hand is essentially unusable at present; he has undergone many surgeries in an attempt to regain its use. It was a simple matter of aiming at something that he did not wish to destroy... his rapid fire test had his hand come up in front of the muzzle somehow (first time?) and blam. No hand.

In addition to all the reading it would be advisable to take some training and then practice until your draw(s) are routine. And your hand NEVER gets in the way. You will see many put their off-hand against their chest when drawing, which is what I tend to do. Whatever way you train - follow the rules my friend.

Good luck. And remember that one in the chamber can make all the difference in the world in a pinch. Especially if you have been 'slam-dunked' and only have one hand to work with because the other is out of commission or is pinned or is simply not accessible. Try racking a round with one hand. Try out a Sig or other handgun with decocker where you have double action but the first round is in the chamber but at 8 pounds with subsequent rounds at 4 pounds. Get comfy, but carry chambered or learn to rack it on the drawstroke until you are willing to bet your life on it (and learn to rack with one hand).

Good luck. Keep safe.
 
An empty chamber is not gonna do you much good if the SHTF. While many will argue that that the time to rack is inconsequential, when the adrenaline gets going, milliseconds count. About the worst scenario I can think of is you yank the weapon out, point, pull trigger and...nothing! See, you forgot to rack the slide. Worse, you half-rack the slide and now have a jam to clear (oh yeah, now I remember that I left one in the chamber when I left the range) . So, get comfortable as fast as you can carrying one in the chamber, ALL the time. I believe any serious defensive and/or tactical shooting instructor will tell you this. My .02 cents.
 
As soon as I bought it it and brought it home. It was 2 or 3 months before I went and got my CCW licence.
Then I always carryed with 1 in the pipe.All my other guns are the same way,and I check them too if I carry them instead.
 
I Have been carrying for about a month and i have NOT loaded a round yet,This may be odd to some but to me i'm wondering if i need to give myself more time.
I'm just now getting used to the Holster and weight.we don't have kids so i'm not locking up my gun anymore it stays close to me .

WHen i'm carrying i think about what if something happens and i need to fire (we are talking intent and ability is there)...and if i pull my XD i have to rack it....now i'm thinking is it time to load a round.

Any Advice ?

Howdy,

I have been carrying for nearly a year, and I NEVER carry with a round chambered.

I do not feel comfortable doing this, first of all.

Second, I keep it close anough at hand that I can use it within a few seconds if I need it.

Third, the mere sight of a drawn firearm is enough to convince most perps that I mean business.

For what it's worth.

TFO
 
Actually found out the other day that the person who conducted my CC class does not carry a round in the chamber.
He's a lot faster and handier than I.
FWIW :pleasantry:
 
I agree on the "as soon as you feel confident". You see I had just the opposite problem. I've been carrying a 1911 for almost 30 yrs. Got a new 45 with the decocker[and what have you and it took me almost 2 weeks to learn to trust it. :biggrin:
Peaceful
 
I always carry chambered. My primary carry gun, the HK2000 SK LEM has no external safety. My back up gun the Glock 19 like wise. If I were for some reason to carry one of my automatics that does i.e. Walther P88 compact I would carry with safety off. The reason being is I want any gun to work the same way anytime I have to use it. If I carry and practice with a gun that has no external safety and then switch and carry one that does guess what is going to happen in a stress situation when I pull my weapon?

The following is a great article by Gabe Suarez. I don't think he would mind me sharing his thoughts.


True Gun Safety
At the beginning of a class I draw my carry gun and hold it before the class (in a safe manner as possible with a real live gun) and ask them what this is for. Usually I get a plethora of bland, pc answers. Occassionally a student answers correctly. "Its for killing".

Firearms are weapons designed for killing those who would try to kill us, and weapons are dangerous. If they were not they would be useless! Weapons are really only tools, harmless and inert until touched by the hand of man. Safety with firearms means that only the adversary (or the target on the firing range) is in danger of being shot. Absolutely no one and nothing else is in danger. This must be kept in proper context and perspective however. We are training for combat and that in itself is inherently dangerous. To design a course that was totally safe and had no element of danger would create a class that nobody would want to attend.

Safety with anything is a mental process, which must be learned and faithfully practiced to be effective. "Accidents" with firearms cannot be solved with laws, or gunlocks, or with guns too safe to be of any tactical value. Inept and careless handling by people who lack the proper mind-set causes gun accidents. Guns do not "go off" by themselves – someone makes them "go off".

Part of the Art of the Pistol involves the understanding of gun safety. Our friend Col. Cooper compressed the myriad of safety suggestions and rules into a compact and total of four. We present them here with suitable modifications. They are as clear, concise and easy to remember as needed.

Rule One: Treat All guns as if they were loaded. Notice I did not say the traditional - All Guns Are Always Loaded, because truly they are not. Yet, guns are useless if they are not loaded. So we always begin with the assumption that they ARE loaded. When handling the piece in an administrative manner - we first check it to verify its condition and if necessary, we unload it. S.I., unlike many other academies, runs hot ranges.

Rule Two: Never let the muzzle unintentionally cover anything you are not willing to destroy. This rule is applicable in administrative handling as well as in tactical duties. If someone points a weapon at you it is implied that he is willing to destroy you.

But again, let's keep it in context. In some tactical situations, it is necessary to cover (with the gun muzzle) someone who is presumed, but not yet confirmed, to be the adversary. Doing so is not a violation of Rule Two. Similarly, it may be necessary to sweep past your leg when drawing from a seated position, such as in a vehicle driver’s seat. This cannot be avoided without compromising your tactical safety, and is NOT a safety violation. Problems here can be prevented by observing rule three.

Additionally, look at how you draw. Unless you are standing in a ballerina stance with your feet touching (hardly suitable for combat) you also sweep part of your leg everytime you draw or holster. Don't argue! Look at your draw and see what I mean.
So do we change everything we do so that in no way shape or form does that muzzle cover anything at all? Hardly! We simply understand what we are doing, carry on, and stay alert.

Rule Three: Keep your finger off the trigger, and indexed on the frame, until you’ve made a conscious decision to shoot. This is a last failsafe method that prevents unintentional shots. When handling the pistol in administrative or tactical situations - keep the finger off the trigger. Simple enough and safe enough.

What about the safety lever??

Often when we ask ourselves why we do something a certain way, we see the shrugging of shoulders and the wrinkling of brows, accompanied with the typical “I dunno…we’ve always done it this way”. Usually this is tied to some meaningless administrative shuffling of papers, or distribution of memos on minutia. Sometimes, however, it is seen in the field of weaponcraft.

One example is the manipulation of the safety lever, or decocking levers on service pistols. Much of the current accepted practice on pistol deployment has come to us from the use and deployment of the 1911, as well as from military circles. Often we see “scary” gunhandling. Scary in the sense that the operator is afraid of his cocked pistol. And from what seems like fear of the cocked weapon, we see premature safety engagement as well as premature decocking.

It is our feeling at Suarez International that gunfights are dangerous. Nothing can be done to make these events “safe”. We bring loaded and dangerous weapons such as pistols to these events to deactivate our adversaries before they can do likewise to us. With that in mind, we want to avoid with severe focus anything that detracts from that mission.

Premature engaging of safeties, or premature decocking diminishes our fighting capability. I once taught a tactics class to a group of 1911 users. This team had just returned from a very high dollar 1911 school. They were very anal retentive about, “On The Sights – Safety Off – Off The Sights – Safety On”, that I could track the team’s movement through the house by listening to the sound of their custom Low Thumb safeties engaging and disengaging. Moreover, as the heat got turned up several operators missed their safety levers because they had been engaged reflexively during tactical events. Not good!

At Suarez International we believe there are three safeties.

1). Your Brain, which is telling you to Shoot or Not Shoot, based on what you see. If your mind is not switched on and dialed in to the events around you, you have no business with a gun in your hand. Period.

2). Your educated trigger finger, which is in register (alongside the frame, or preferably resting on the slide stop button or other easily felt index point) until the brain, decides to shoot or not to shoot.

Anytime the weapon is in hand, the safety should be disengaged. When you decide to relinquish control of the weapon to sling or holster, then engage the safety. When I was issued an MP5, we trained to operate it with the selector set on Full Auto and finger off the trigger. When we transitioned to sling to go hands on, we engaged the safety. When I carried a S&W 5906, I thumb cocked the pistol (if I had time) dealt with the tactical problem, and then decocked when I had decided I was going to holster. Also witness the Glock pistol with which such a vast number of police, security professionals, and civilian defenders are armed with. Where is the safety/decocking lever? There is not one, and Glock shooters operate using the methodology we described.

Remember, we are in the fight to win. This usually means hitting the other man before he hits us. Anything that detracts from that mission, either tactical, technical, or equipment, should be discarded and replaced with a better system. When it comes to manipulating the safety, the better system is In Hand/ Safety Off -In Holster/Safety On.

Rule Four: Be sure of your target and what is beyond it. Do not shoot at a sound or a shadow, it might not be what you think. There is no greater tragedy than to realize that you've just shot a loved one by mistake. Almost as bad is to have shot an innocent stranger. Don't let this happen to you - be sure of your target. Be aware of what is beyond the object of your shooting.

This doesn't mean you won't shoot if you have a poor background, just that you may need to change your tactics.

None of these rules are based on mechanical safety devices but rather on mind-set. Understand that you can try to make yourself so safe (the NRA comes to mind) that you lose all combat utility whatsoever. In my mind, many who aspire to the "scary gunhandling" school, have lost much of their combat utility...although they are very safe.

__________________
Gabe Suarez
Suarez International USA, Inc.
303 East Gurley Street, Suite 461
Prescott, Arizona 86301 USA
Office 928-776-4492
Fax 928-776-8218
Mobile 928-308-1512
Suarez International USA - Reality-Based Gunfight Training - (928) 776-4492, or (928) 308-1512
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I carry a Glock 23 and have carried it with one in the pipe since the day I bought it. Each time I either put my weapon in my IWB holster or take it out I drop the magazine, rack the slide to eject the live round, verify it is empty by looking at the chamber and magazine twice, release the slide, dry fire in a safe direction, lock the slide to the rear, load single round, release the slide, insert the magazine, return to holster.

I do this to verify that the weapon is hot and as a way to make safety and familiarity with my gun at as high a level as possible. Repetition and a safety mind-set is much more valuable than an external safety that can be disengaged before you accidentally shoot yourself because you neglected one of the four cardinal safety rules.
 
Be careful with constant rechambering the same round. Dont do this too often. You can seat the projectile too far into the cartridge and cause a KF and injure yourself.
 
I have had one in the chamber since day one.I carry a 1911 and without one in the chamber it's going to take to long to respond.But like a lot of others said if you don't feel safe don't load one till you do.
 
I was born with no left hand, but still, imho, anything without one chambered makes a great hammer.... hopefully the bad guy isn't armed with a bigger rock that breaks my hammer/unloaded gun as we swing them at each other.

In other words, all of mine always have one in the pipe.
 

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