Would you or wouldn't you?

[Rhino]

How's that 2 billion round request for DHS then?

Might take me a day or two to come up with that much. But the question, and my answer, were about local law enforcement.
.

Screw em... screw em all... screw em hard!

I'll pass. I don't go in for that sort of thing.

 

[wolf_fire]

Might take me a day or two to come up with that much. But the question, and my answer, were about local law enforcement.
.
I'll pass. I don't go in for that sort of thing.

First and foremost... funny response "I'll pass...".

Secondly, the DHS, had mentioned somewhere that part of what they do is lend support to all LE in time of need and have a mission statement about partnering with local LE. Link Removed

Since they have purchased such an exorbitant amount of ammunition, if your local LE department has run out, then they can go knock on DHS's door, but not mine.

You may have a great rapport with your department, they may be some of the good guys in LE, but the fact doesn't change that DHS ordered 2 billion rounds of ammunition and has lent a hand into this ammo shortage crisis that we have. In turn, if a LE agency cannot get their hands on the needed ammo, go call big brother up and ask for some. Of course the other side of that is that our fine brethren in arms are going nuts stockpiling themselves in response to the DHS, and Obama, and Feinstein, and Pelosi, and CT, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Rhino]

First and foremost... funny response "I'll pass...".

Home Improvement was my favorite TV show ever, and that line was a continuing theme in several episodes.
.

Secondly, the DHS, had mentioned somewhere that part of what they do is lend support to all LE in time of need....
.
....Of course the other side of that is that our fine brethren in arms are going nuts stockpiling themselves in response to the DHS, and Obama, and Feinstein, and Pelosi, and CT, etc. etc. etc.

I wasn't addressing what role the federal government may or may not have played in the ammo shortage. The question was simple. Would I help out local law enforcement in their time of need if I could, and my answer was yes. How a third party may or may not have contributed to the need somewhere up the chain really wouldn't matter as far as that simple question goes. I'm not saying that isn't a valid topic. It just wasn't the topic I was addressing, nor is it relevant to the simple question I was answering. My local department would still need the ammo no matter who contributed to the shortage, and I'd still make my decision to contribute no matter who contributed to the shortage, assuming the contributors weren't in that local department of course.

 

[RFM]

I support LE, especially when they support the constitution above the ignorant laws passed by Colorado's liberal government. But I wouldn't "loan" my ammo. That's just crazy talk!

 

[wolf_fire]

Home Improvement was my favorite TV show ever, and that line was a continuing theme in several episodes.
.
I wasn't addressing what role the federal government may or may not have played in the ammo shortage. The question was simple. Would I help out local law enforcement in their time of need if I could, and my answer was yes. How a third party may or may not have contributed to the need somewhere up the chain really wouldn't matter as far as that simple question goes. I'm not saying that isn't a valid topic. It just wasn't the topic I was addressing, nor is it relevant to the simple question I was answering. My local department would still need the ammo no matter who contributed to the shortage, and I'd still make my decision to contribute no matter who contributed to the shortage, assuming the contributors weren't in that local department of course.

That's cool and I'm not faulting your position... I'm just adding the caveat since the DHS helped cause this problem, they can help fix it. They are supposed to be "partnering" with local police agencies, so give the locals some of DHS's excessive stockpiles of ammo. AFTER that happens, if the locals still need some, do what you want. As for me, I'm holding onto my own.

 

[Rhino]

That's cool and I'm not faulting your position... I'm just adding the caveat since the DHS helped cause this problem, they can help fix it. They are supposed to be "partnering" with local police agencies, so give the locals some of DHS's excessive stockpiles of ammo. AFTER that happens, if the locals still need some, do what you want. As for me, I'm holding onto my own.

The only time the federal government gives anything away at the local level is if it gets votes for democrats. But yeah, I know where you're coming.

 

[cds0699]

This may sound selfish of me, but I wouldn't spot ammo to anyone outside of my family. Police departments should absolutely never allow themselves to get this short, but that's not my problem.... They won't spot me ammo if I need it.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

 

[Rhino]

...Police departments should absolutely never allow themselves to get this short, but that's not my problem....

If you read the OP again, they didn't allow themselves to get anything. The shortage was completely out of their control. Whether you'd support them or not is certainly your choice, but you can't blame them for something they had no control over.

 

[cds0699]

If you read the OP again, they didn't allow themselves to get anything. The shortage was completely out of their control. Whether you'd support them or not is certainly your choice, but you can't blame them for something they had no control over.

It should never be out of their control. It all comes down to proper planning in my opinion. If I'm in charge of a police department, I plan for situations like this just like all other training.

Everyone's full of excuses these days.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

 

[Rhino]

It should never be out of their control. It all comes down to proper planning in my opinion. If I'm in charge of a police department, I plan for situations like this just like all other training.

Everyone's full of excuses these days.

And how exactly would you plan for your suppliers running out of stock? Your city doesn't give you extra money to stockpile, and they certainly aren't going to fund you to start manufacturing your own ammo. So how exactly would you plan to conjure up this ammo out of thin air when the suppliers ran out? There are well known and well publicized reasons why they couldn't get ammo. They're not full of excuses. Someone else might be full of something though.

 

[loud_rocker]

No way. If they are too inept to make sure they have sufficient munitions to carry out their duties, then they are probably inept too carry out those duties in a reasonable way to protect me and my family. Even if it was a emergency situation I still wouldn't because I would have to wait for their response time to help me out and if they are in a situation where they needed it that badly then they are probably over extended with what help they could offer.

 

[cds0699]

And how exactly would you plan for your suppliers running out of stock? Your city doesn't give you extra money to stockpile, and they certainly aren't going to fund you to start manufacturing your own ammo. So how exactly would you plan to conjure up this ammo out of thin air when the suppliers ran out? There are well known and well publicized reasons why they couldn't get ammo. They're not full of excuses. Someone else might be full of something though.

Coordinate with other departments

Request a budget increase before hand (maybe even fundraisers)

Adjust training dates

There is any number of things that can be done to prevent situations like this. Key word is to plan and know to protect the vital gear that is mission critical. When police are charged with public safety, they should have the foresight to plan against problems, be proactive instead of reactive.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

 

[BluesStringer]

And how exactly would you plan for your suppliers running out of stock? Your city doesn't give you extra money to stockpile, and they certainly aren't going to fund you to start manufacturing your own ammo. So how exactly would you plan to conjure up this ammo out of thin air when the suppliers ran out? There are well known and well publicized reasons why they couldn't get ammo. They're not full of excuses. Someone else might be full of something though.

The OP link was from May of 2013, during the height of the shortages. Everyone across America experienced shortages.......if they didn't plan ahead. I have yet to buy another single round above what I had on hand when Sandy Hook happened, and yet I have kept my practice schedule of twice a month come rain or come shine except for missing one or two range sessions because of my foot. The friend that I normally shoot with had/has about 3 x as much ammo as I had/have. We both need to replenish, but neither of us are anywhere near out, nor will either of us ever be.

The only reason either my friend or I may be over-prepared is because we always figured the cops that would be coming for our guns would be at least prepared for the likes of us. Guess the old saw is true; never take too much for granted. LOL

Blues

 

[longslide10]

Wow.... I guess I understand the character of who you are much better after reading this. No ya don't

A) traffic offenses are crimes... yes they are not felonies, but they are crimes, regardless of your views. They are statutes and codes under commerce / admiralty law not a common law crime just so you know.
B) Yes, I know people bribe the police to look the other way. However, this actually IS a felony offense. I agree with that statement but that is just how it is in the depts. They all do it and no it doesn't make it right
C) Any cop I have met that has fixed tickets is looked down upon rather severely. Bull Squat
D) Tampering with evidence for a murder case... yup another crime. Sure as hell is-- agree again
E) Thinking that because someone else does it "makes it OK", skippy, doesn't really sit well with me nor most in a civilized society... but whatever floats your boat. Never said it was ok skippy but that is what society is today---corruption at every level.

However, aside from all that, I'm glad you've made a permanent electronic record of what you are about (You have no effing idea of what I am about or who I am) so if you ever are arrested, some DA doesn't have to look too far to see the character of the person they are dealing with. You just admitted that lying, tampering with evidence, and bribing cops is just A-OK with you. Good one, skippy!

Don't know where you come up with this but I never admitted anything other my observations.

Unbelievable! What are you frigging Dudley Do Right or Mr Goody Two Shoes? What world do you live in anyway? Unfortunately we live in a very corrupt society and that is just the way it works in some places. I am admitting nothing but observations and hearsay of the real world. One that you apparently are not in touch with.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Yes...Let's all follow the honorable crack dealers who pay off dirty cops lead...

If they do it...it must be okay...

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[Rhino]

Coordinate with other departments

So you could chastise the other department for running out after they gave out ammo? The shortages were pretty much universal, so the other departments were likely in similar circumstances. And no department is going to give up supplies while a known shortage exists, unless they want to lose their jobs of course. You're chastising one department for running out, and then you say another should give up their ammo, which would obviously put that department more at risk for running out. Obviously no one can win with you unless they develop the ability to spit ammo out of their butt. Besides, I'm sure the department in the OP investigated that avenue before appealing to the public.
.

Request a budget increase before hand (maybe even fundraisers)

So now they're supposed to predict the future? Dude, lay off the wacky tobacky. Even if they could miraculously predict the future, almost no municipality in America is going to authorize extra money to stockpile ammo. Law enforcement agencies are having a hard enough time just trying to get enough money to operate from month to month. And you can bet your bottom dollar that they exhausted all the normal budgetary methods long before they appealed to the public.
.

Adjust training dates

I think that was the idea. They'd have to cancel training if they didn't have the ammo for it. That's why they asked for help.
.

There is any number of things that can be done to prevent situations like this.

You keep saying that. but so far you haven't come up with any viable ones.
.

Key word is to plan and know to protect the vital gear that is mission critical. When police are charged with public safety, they should have the foresight to plan against problems, be proactive instead of reactive.

Tell us how they could be proactive for a shortage they didn't know is coming, and for which they didn't have the money for even if they had known it was coming. You keep telling us they could have planned a way around this, but you haven't explained how someone plans for something they don't know about, or buys stuff they don't have money for.
.

The OP link was from May of 2013, during the height of the shortages. Everyone across America experienced shortages.......if they didn't plan ahead....

The town has 3,000 residents and they only have seven cops. According to comments quoted from the Chief, he didn't know about the shortage until one of his officers had to attend annual training and they couldn't find 40 cal ammo for him. That's what the residents pitched in. They ran into another problem after that. They received 16 brand new AR-15s, but apparently they hadn't budgeted for ammo to load in them. I couldn't tell from the article if they knew the AR-15s were coming or not, but it was plain that the Chief didn't know about the ammo shortage until he ran into that situation.
.
Was 40 cal hard to get for a while? I know 380 was dang near impossible for a while, but I didn't look for any 40, so I don't know how scarce it got.

 

[wolf_fire]

Link Removed Originally Posted by wolf_fire Link Removed

Wow.... I guess I understand the character of who you are much better after reading this. No ya don't

A) traffic offenses are crimes... yes they are not felonies, but they are crimes, regardless of your views. They are statutes and codes under commerce / admiralty law not a common law crime just so you know.
B) Yes, I know ​people bribe the police to look the other way. However, this actually IS a felony offense. I agree with that statement but that is just how it is in the depts. They all do it and no it doesn't make it right
C) Any cop I have met that has fixed tickets is looked down upon rather severely. Bull Squat
D) Tampering with evidence for a murder case... yup another crime. Sure as hell is-- agree again
E) Thinking that because someone else does it "makes it OK", skippy, doesn't really sit well with me nor most in a civilized society... but whatever floats your boat. Never said it was ok skippy but that is what society is today---corruption at every level.


However, aside from all that, I'm glad you've made a permanent electronic record of what you are about (You have no effing idea of what I am about or who I am) so if you ever are arrested, some DA doesn't have to look too far to see the character of the person they are dealing with. You just admitted that lying, tampering with evidence, and bribing cops is just A-OK with you. Good one, skippy!

Don't know where you come up with this but I never admitted anything other my observations.

Unbelievable! What are you frigging Dudley Do Right or Mr Goody Two Shoes? What world do you live in anyway? Unfortunately we live in a very corrupt society and that is just the way it works in some places. I am admitting nothing but observations and hearsay of the real world. One that you apparently are not in touch with.

Yep, your character is read loud and clear with each and every letter you type. In your OP you admitted that since there is a lot of scratch your back in the world you would be selfish right along the rest of them. To respond to what you said about my points. Here's the definition of crime:

• an act or the commission of an act that is forbidden or the omission of a duty that is commanded by a public law and that makes the offender liable to punishment by that law;

Yes, committing an act against the vehicle code is a crime. The punishment by the governing authority is usually a fine, but can include jail time as well.
Then you agree to the next point.
Then your response is ever so eloquent, "bull squat". Outside of my regular job I work with a lot of police and know many of them. I do know for a fact that cops that fix tickets are looked down upon in their department regardless of your opinion, no matter how eloquent it was. Maybe the departments where you live work differently.
Then you agree with me again.
Lastly, you actually did say it was OK in your post #13...

There is a whole lot of you scratch my back I'll scratch yours in this world so damn straight there skippy I am going to be selfish with them.

And no, I'm not Duddly do right nor Mr. Goodey Two Shoes, far from up, nor do I stoop to calling people names in a civil argument... the only reason I used the term skippy was to echo how childish it sounded back to you after you used it. Apparently that approach didn't work, because in your next response you used two more names at me. But with your responses on how you would be selfish right along with "everyone else", your comment in the OP about wanting to give ammo to the cops in order for you to get out of committing vehicle code violations, and the fact that you keep calling me names does help me understand your character a lot.... whether you think it does or not. A man is known by two things, what he says and what he does. And what you say you will do speaks volumes.

 

[Rhino]

Don't know where you come up with this but I never admitted anything other my observations.

Unbelievable! What are you frigging Dudley Do Right or Mr Goody Two Shoes? What world do you live in anyway? Unfortunately we live in a very corrupt society and that is just the way it works in some places. I am admitting nothing but observations and hearsay of the real world. One that you apparently are not in touch with.

Are you from Chicago?

 

[BluesStringer]

The town has 3,000 residents and they only have seven cops. According to comments quoted from the Chief, he didn't know about the shortage until one of his officers had to attend annual training and they couldn't find 40 cal ammo for him.

The bolded text simply isn't believable, Rhino. Sandy Hook happened in December 2012. Both the Guns.com article and the Link Removed piece they sourced their information from were published mid-May 2013. You're suggesting that just because Proctor is a small MN town that the Chief never heard a news story about the "panic buying" and ammo shortages across the country six months after it started. I don't believe him. He simply got caught unprepared.

That's what the residents pitched in. They ran into another problem after that. They received 16 brand new AR-15s, but apparently they hadn't budgeted for ammo to load in them. I couldn't tell from the article if they knew the AR-15s were coming or not, but it was plain that the Chief didn't know about the ammo shortage until he ran into that situation.

Then it is just as "plain" that the Chief is a blithering idiot if he can't flip on a TV or radio or read a national newspaper to find out that six months after Sandy Hook happened, nobody could find especially .40 cal. and .223/5.56 ammo anywhere in the country, at least not at the retail level. Bigger agencies may be at the head of the line with distributors, and that might be a logical reason for saying the smallness of the Chief's department had a bearing on not being able to find practice ammo, but saying it was "plain that the Chief didn't know about the ammo shortage" five or six months after it started being reported daily is just not believable.

And you say "they received" 16 AR's for a seven-man department??? Where'd they get the money for more than twice as many rifles as they have men to shoulder 'em if they couldn't even find money in the budget to keep practice ammo on-hand??? Let me guess: The 16 AR's for a seven-man department came with the MRAP paid for by the federal government? I don't know, but nothing is adding up, and besides, the question here is would we donate or loan our respective LE agencies ammo, and regardless of the truth or dishonesty expressed in why they're asking for it, my answer would always be an unqualified, "Are you freakin' kidding me???" followed by a vociferous, "Get lost."
.

Was 40 cal hard to get for a while? I know 380 was dang near impossible for a while, but I didn't look for any 40, so I don't know how scarce it got.

I don't have any .40 cal. firearms, but I do recall reading/hearing that it, along with .223/5.56, were the two least-available rounds at the height of the shortages. They are both still over-priced due to those shortages too, which is why I haven't replenished what I've used over the last year or so yet, or I should say, haven't *started* replenishing yet, because I have used a lot more of what I spent 20 years stockpiling of 5.56 and the pistol rounds I use than I could afford to replenish in one purchase.

If a two-person household can plan for ammo shortages, a seven-man LE agency that can afford more than twice as many rifles as they have personnel to use them should be expected to plan for shortages too. His excuses ring hollow, but more importantly, ring untrue to me.

Blues

 

[Firefighterchen]

I have plenty of ammo the police can't have any of it.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app