Whats your opinion on the florida shooting?

Orlando Sentinel - Facts vs Rumors - Update April 3rd

Latest Facts vs Rumors article by Rene Stutzman of the Orlando Sentinel:

Trayvon was trying to defend himself against a man who outweighed him by 100 pounds.

Outweighed, yes. By 100 pounds, no. George Zimmerman, the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who says he killed Trayvon in self-defense, outweighed him by 30 or 40 pounds, according to family members. A Sanford police incident report says Trayvon was 6 feet tall and weighed 160 pounds. A spokesman for the family's lawyers gave a slightly different set of numbers: 6 feet 1 and 150 pounds. Zimmerman is 5 feet 9 inches tall, according to the police report, but it is silent about his weight. A family member says he currently weighs about 190 pounds. Zimmerman used to be far heavier. A 2005 police report put his weight at 250 pounds, but security-camera video released last week by Sanford police show him to be much trimmer.


The U.S. Department of Justice is conducting a broad investigation into civil-rights abuses by the Sanford Police Department in the Trayvon Martin case and for years of past abuse.

Not so. Since Trayvon's death Feb. 26, the NAACP and others have alleged widespread and long-standing civil-rights abuses by the department and asked for a broad investigation. But last week, DOJ spokeswoman Xochitl Hinojosa and FBI spokesman Dave Couvertier told the Los Angeles Times that there's only one civil-rights investigation under way: whether Zimmerman violated Trayvon's rights when he shot him.

Trayvon had no business walking through the gated community where he was shot and should not have been out at 3 a.m.

Trayvon was where he was supposed to be. He and his father were visiting his father's fiancée, who lives in the gated community. Trayvon had walked to a 7-Eleven and was returning to her townhouse shortly after 7:15 p.m. when he was shot. He was not out at 3 a.m.

The reason George Zimmerman was not arrested is because his father is a former judge who pulled some strings.

Zimmerman's father, 64-year-old Robert Zimmerman of Lake Mary, is a retired magistrate from Virginia. He told WOFL-Channel 35 last week that no one involved in the investigation knew about his former job, and he didn't tell them. Magistrates in Virginia are not full-blown judges. They used to be called justices of the peace. They have limited authority and conduct no trials. Some are not lawyers. They typically issue arrest warrants, search warrants and set bail.

Trayvon Martin was shot in the back of the head.

The Rev. Jesse Jackson got that wrong at a rally in Eatonville on March 25. Trayvon was shot once in the chest at close range.

(Note: the facts vs rumors piece is getting smaller. Most info has been dispersed already. FBI is on the scene, but not likely to share any info at this time.)
 
Interesting that this has devolved to the point of denigrating service to the country in the National Guard. For the record, I myself retired from the Guard at the age of 45. I did not consider myself to be wet behind the ears at all.
Since all of this is conjecture, I think that is all I have to say.

Guess you missed the part where I said the denigration was intentionally absurd to make a point about the absurdities I was responding to.

I'd venture to say that the majority of Guardsmen are quite a bit younger than you were when you retired. It was a guess based on my perception of the odds of being right. Regardless, young, middle-aged, or an old fart like me, posters should expect to have sarcasm and derision tossed their way when they post the same exaggerations, half-truths and misrepresentations repeatedly, even after being shown their errors at every turn. It starts to look as absurd as my intentionally absurd rant about his service. No disrespect intended to any service-person, active duty or retired. I was just trying to make a point.

Blues
 
Idk if this has been discussed yet but this was new news to me.

Partial Sanford Police Reports Provide Support for Zimmerman's Story - Partial Sanford Police Reports Provide Support for Zimmerman's Story
SGB posted that report in the first 50 posts somewhere. I don't understand why anyone is calling this new or "breaking" news. Not a dig on you at all, but on the organizations calling this new. Sanford released it a couple of weeks ago at least.
 
personally I think the media has completely screwed the pooch here.

At this stage of the game the Shooter will not receive a fair and impartial trial by jury because of all the idiots in the media fanning the flames of hate and discontent.
unless someone has security cam footage the damage has already been done by the liberal media to sentence Zimmerman to a life always looking over his shoulder and wondering if a vigilante is coming for him.

Personally I would love to see the Florida Atty. Gen. charge the office of the president and all the liberal media outlets who altered or reported falsehoods as fact to include editing a 911 sound byte with obstruction of justice.

We need to demand accountability of the media and they also should be made to pay some hefty fines for their sins in this matter.
 
SGB posted that report in the first 50 posts somewhere. I don't understand why anyone is calling this new or "breaking" news. Not a dig on you at all, but on the organizations calling this new. Sanford released it a couple of weeks ago at least.

No worries. I'm always a little hesitant to post on long discussions like this. 41 pages is too much to go through especially with a good portion dedicated to hijacking this thread.
 
The Hunt for Probable Cause

One of the main reasons cited for the Sanford Police Dept. hesitation in "arresting" George Zimmerman, is in trying to zero in on a probable cause. If they had arrested him immediately, as suggested by the Rev's Al & Jesse and others, the 175 day clock to get real evidence to support the arrest would have started ticking immediately. These are details "the mob" doesn't know (or care about). This article, by Rene Stutzman of the Orlando Sentinel, explains the need for probable cause, and how it applies to the Sanford event.

Link Removed
 
I posted this in another of the TM/GZ threads, but that thread is quickly getting buried. Not sure if everyone following the case saw it or not, so I'm reposting it here. It's possible that either this piece of evidence, or perhaps many multiple pieces of evidence as-yet unreleased to the public, have something to do with no arrest being made. Anyway, here's the repost......

I'm not going to comment on this, but it's something I ran across by accident while surfing YouTube for something unrelated. It came up on the "Recommended Videos" list because I've searched for and watched some videos on this case in recent days. Doesn't matter, because the video I landed on isn't what I'm talking about anyway. In the comments section was a post by someone calling themselves "warchick," in which she said she had posted evidence that Trayvon had a FaceBook conversation with a friend in which he disclosed that he was aware of Zimmerman as early as January of this year, and, says "warchick," some kind of harassment or confrontation with him was "premeditated." I wrote a message to warchick asking for a link to that evidence, and she obliged. Here is the link to a posting by her on her blog. There is a screen-capture of what appears to be an excerpt from a FaceBook discussion posted there. I am not posting the pic for a couple of reasons, one, it has some profanity in it and, two, I have no idea if it's real or not. As to the latter point, there is a busy comments section at the bottom of the posting where warchick, among others, attempts to explain why they think its legitimate in response to others who identify what seems to me to be valid concerns about possible problems with the image. I am posting the link here simply to let y'all decide for yourselves if it's worth considering. I would venture to say that, real or faked, it is likely in the hands of experts scrutinizing it for the Sanford PD and other agencies investigating the incident, as well as for the Zimmerman and Martin legal teams.

I found it interesting. Take it with however many grains of salt you think it deserves.

Blues
 
i can see where someone would say that it's shopped. if you drew a line under the names, to the right and under the text, they are off...mainly the MSF posts. the first MSF post under TSMs is below the line, then his next post's text is way above. same for some of TSMs posts, but not off by as much. the last TSM text is too far to the right from his name and you can see the start of a letter that was covered up. that's what i get from it.


proceed with the name calling like she did to anyone that disagreed.
 
i can see where someone would say that it's shopped. if you drew a line under the names, to the right and under the text, they are off...mainly the MSF posts. the first MSF post under TSMs is below the line, then his next post's text is way above. same for some of TSMs posts, but not off by as much. the last TSM text is too far to the right from his name and you can see the start of a letter that was covered up. that's what i get from it.


proceed with the name calling like she did to anyone that disagreed.

Did you also notice that several of those in the Comments section who are/were sympathetic to warchick's position admonished her about the name-calling? Not sure who you think has called you names here, but since it wasn't me, I'll go on and answer your first paragraph....

As I said when I posted the link, there are what appears to me to be valid questions raised about the image. More than one commenter addressed possible explanations for them though, which you either didn't read, or dismissed as implausible for some as-yet unexplained reason. I found the possible explanations credible enough to not just dismiss them. If it's a fake, it would be easy for LE to subpoena Martin's FB postings under all of his nicks and prove that it's fake. Likewise, it'd be easy to confirm it as authentic, if it is. Neither FaceBook nor Twitter is releasing anything that was removed by the family after Trayvon's death. The only things out there are the Twitter conversations that were captured in Google's cache, which really add nothing to the details of the meeting with Zimmerman. However, if this FB thread is real, it adds a whole bunch to the case. If it's not real, fine, but the prosecutor and/or PD should, at some point, address publicly how they came to that conclusion, and it should include rationale more solid than just some non-digital-graphics-expert glancing at it and noticing some alignment problems and offering no further scrutiny. FB knows whether or not it's real. A subpoena will compel them to disclose the truth. That's all I want to see is the truth.

Blues
 
Did you also notice that several of those in the Comments section who are/were sympathetic to warchick's position admonished her about the name-calling? Not sure who you think has called you names here, but since it wasn't me, I'll go on and answer your first paragraph....

As I said when I posted the link, there are what appears to me to be valid questions raised about the image. More than one commenter addressed possible explanations for them though, which you either didn't read, or dismissed as implausible for some as-yet unexplained reason. I found the possible explanations credible enough to not just dismiss them. If it's a fake, it would be easy for LE to subpoena Martin's FB postings under all of his nicks and prove that it's fake. Likewise, it'd be easy to confirm it as authentic, if it is. Neither FaceBook nor Twitter is releasing anything that was removed by the family after Trayvon's death. The only things out there are the Twitter conversations that were captured in Google's cache, which really add nothing to the details of the meeting with Zimmerman. However, if this FB thread is real, it adds a whole bunch to the case. If it's not real, fine, but the prosecutor and/or PD should, at some point, address publicly how they came to that conclusion, and it should include rationale more solid than just some non-digital-graphics-expert glancing at it and noticing some alignment problems and offering no further scrutiny. FB knows whether or not it's real. A subpoena will compel them to disclose the truth. That's all I want to see is the truth.

Blues

the 2 only posts i see about the postings being off said it could possibly be due to a camera and that he only saw one line being off and the other about cropping/resizing. a camera isnt going to move portions of lines up/down on a screen. as for the cropping/resizing, i did just that. took a screenshot of facebook, cropped, then resized to 60% and it looked identical, but smaller. only upon zooming into the resized image was there any distortion and at that point it was blurry text.


i do agree that if this was found my the SPD to be genuine, then it would show preplanning of TM to mess with GZ. at that point no one could defend TM as the confrontation was premeditated.
 
The bottom line is we (the public) do not know all the facts and it would be wise of everyone not to rush to conclusions either way until all the evidence is released
 
Oh I love these sorts of things being posted on message boards. Makes me want to delete my accounts from each and every one of them. Here's my opinion, for what's it's worth.

No one has access to the evidence but the police. They have no evidence to support any crime being committed other than the attack by Trayvon! They obviously can't charge him now can they? If they had evidence countering Zimmerman's account of what happened, they'd arrest and charge him. Pure and simple!
 
Oh I love these sorts of things being posted on message boards. Makes me want to delete my accounts from each and every one of them. Here's my opinion, for what's it's worth.

No one has access to the evidence but the police. They have no evidence to support any crime being committed other than the attack by Trayvon! They obviously can't charge him now can they? If they had evidence countering Zimmerman's account of what happened, they'd arrest and charge him. Pure and simple!

You know John, the forums are for exactly what has gone on here. It's a place to voice OPINIONS based on the information that is available to the individuals that are participating. Many here waded into the discussion with our minds made up one way or the other but through sharing different sources of information and giving a different view on a particular aspect of the argument many have changed their opinions and have decided that the best approach is to let the system work and see how the legal system decides given the facts.

The argument is 90% of the sport, 10% are the facts.

It obvious many have their mind already made up as to who the "guilty" party is. If they were to read the whole thread and see some of the points of argument and the facts given disputing many of the stances given by many, perhaps some eyes would be opened. You are correct about one thing:

johnbergsing said:
No one has access to the evidence but the police. They have no evidence to support any crime being committed other than the attack by Trayvon! They obviously can't charge him now can they? If they had evidence countering Zimmerman's account of what happened, they'd arrest and charge him. Pure and simple!

If you send a message to Luke, I'm sure he can help you dissolve your membership to the forum with out difficulty.
 
Last night, one of the local TV stations interviewed an older woman participating in one of the many demonstrations. She said, "They should arrest George Zimmerman immediately, and make him prove it was self-defense."

I fell off my chair in disbelief of what I had just heard.
 
Zimmerman was wrong to begin with. He was told not to follow the young man. He was in a vehicle. IF you CCW you are told to avoid confrontation. If the kid was such a threat why not stay in the vehicle and call the cops and say you are being attacked. Being a navy wife I have to travel alone with kids. I have been places or had to stop places that were lets just say sketchy. I have locked my door, and called the cops on more than one occasion. I have also been in my back yard and had a man lay down until the cops came. I carry every day...I think this whole incident is being used by everyone for some sort of agenda.
What do I hope happens.
Zimmerman bought before a grand Jury.
Everyone shut the hell up..its not about you.
Do I believe Zimmerman is guilty of first degree murder...no..
Worse manslaughter, best negligent homicide....under the theory but for your actions this would not occured.
What do I want us as gun owners to do...dont let people in public office or lobbiest use this to take away our gun rights..
Ok..I am done..
Have a wonderful weekend folks.
 
Regina Lahoz:297417 said:
Zimmerman was wrong to begin with. He was told not to follow the young man. He was in a vehicle. IF you CCW you are told to avoid confrontation. If the kid was such a threat why not stay in the vehicle and call the cops and say you are being attacked. Being a navy wife I have to travel alone with kids. I have been places or had to stop places that were lets just say sketchy. I have locked my door, and called the cops on more than one occasion. I have also been in my back yard and had a man lay down until the cops came. I carry every day...I think this whole incident is being used by everyone for some sort of agenda.
What do I hope happens.
Zimmerman bought before a grand Jury.
Everyone shut the hell up..its not about you.
Do I believe Zimmerman is guilty of first degree murder...no..
Worse manslaughter, best negligent homicide....under the theory but for your actions this would not occured.
What do I want us as gun owners to do...dont let people in public office or lobbiest use this to take away our gun rights..
Ok..I am done..
Have a wonderful weekend folks.

He was advised to not pursue TM, and GZ said "OK" (you forgot that really important detail). He was in a vehicle....and? He was advised to not pursue after he got out of his vehicle (possibly because the dispatcher asked where TM went). It would be nice if you took your own advise, and "shut the hell up...it's not about you"...but instead you start your post off with, "Zimmerman was wrong." Nice bit of hypocrisy you got there, it doesn't matter what YOU think was wrong, but what the evidence presents.

*SARCASM* You should have been arrested for having a man lay down in your backyard for the police, because you are guilty of assault/kidnapping/brandishing/threatening with a deadly weapon/detaining that person illegally. You should remain in jail for an undetermined amount of time until your case went to court, and you could prove your innocence. *SARCASM*
 
Zimmerman was wrong to begin with. He was told not to follow the young man. He was in a vehicle. IF you CCW you are told to avoid confrontation. If the kid was such a threat why not stay in the vehicle and call the cops and say you are being attacked. Being a navy wife I have to travel alone with kids. I have been places or had to stop places that were lets just say sketchy. I have locked my door, and called the cops on more than one occasion. I have also been in my back yard and had a man lay down until the cops came. I carry every day...I think this whole incident is being used by everyone for some sort of agenda.
What do I hope happens.
Zimmerman bought before a grand Jury.
Everyone shut the hell up..its not about you.
Do I believe Zimmerman is guilty of first degree murder...no..
Worse manslaughter, best negligent homicide....under the theory but for your actions this would not occured.
What do I want us as gun owners to do...dont let people in public office or lobbiest use this to take away our gun rights..
Ok..I am done..
Have a wonderful weekend folks.
Go trolling somewhere else!
OUT! Pesky Troll, OUT!!

Link Removed
 
Y'all realize, don't you, that USA Carry being covered in the Orlando Sentinel last week is a double-edged sword? This thread specifically was where the quotes were pulled from, and we've had more first-time posters in it than I've ever seen in any other thread ever since it ran. I suppose it's understandable that people like Regina don't read through the voluminous thread before posting the same tired old misinformation. Not sure I would read through it either before posting if I were a newcomer, but then again, I would also make sure I could reliably document whatever I had to say even if I didn't. We see every day of every week that, no matter what the subject is, many old-timers and Johnny-come-latelys cannot be counted upon to discipline themselves to such a minimal degree.

Maybe Regina is a troll, maybe not. Her misinformation is not as all-encompassing as some of the regulars around here though. Link Removed

Blues
 
I'm about an hour away from all this crap and honestly I'm getting the hell out of dodge. I don't like leaving my home everyday now and wondering if today will be the first day I have to defend myself.

This has gotten WAY out of hand with many thanks to the media. While this link isn't DIRECTLY related to trayvon/zimmerman, I honestly don't think the outcome of that case will solve anything. I mean you have the NBPP down here in Sanford "training for war" and then Neo-Nazis moving in to counter-act it.

Unbelievable Audio From the New Black Panthers: ‘Suited, Booted, and Armed’ | TheBlaze.com
 

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