The Open Carry Argument

[Firefighterchen]

Maybe the question here should be, why do you prefer to open carry as oppose to concealed carry? Is it because you can't qualify for a CC permit, your state or local does not have a lawful CC permit, or you can't afford to get a CC permit? I often wonder why a person choses to open carry as opposed to concealed? Is it a cost thing or what? I live in a state were both are legal, so I wonder why people do what thy do? Your answer is.........?

I open carry because:

1 You will not be targeted first, if at all. (added since this seems to be a primary argument against, and this argument has no evidence to back it up)
2 Its a faster draw.
3 Its more comfortable.
4 It deters a crime before it happens.
5 It shows the public firearms are not evil.
6 It shows the public good people carry firearms.
7 Its my right as a living soul, and the 2A says what the government can not do, not what I can do.
8 I get the opportunity to educate more people than a cc.
9 I can buy pants that fit me. No need to dress around the gun.
10 I don't worry about printing.
11 I can always conceal it if I need to.

I had a permit, I burned it. I could get another one, but I don't lick the boots of the state.

I can afford it, but I will not pay to give a Right away.

Why not ask you the same line of questioning...

Maybe the question here should be, why do you prefer to conceal carry as oppose to open carry? Is it because you want to get permission, your state or local does not have lawful OC, or you like to pay the state to exercise a Right? I often wonder why a person choses to conceal carry as opposed to open? Is it an irrational fear thing? I live in a state were both are legal, so I wonder why people do what they do? Your answer is.........?

Sent from my D6616 using USA Carry mobile app

 

[NavyLCDR]

Maybe the question here should be, why do you prefer to open carry as oppose to concealed carry?

Maybe the question here should be, why are you asking the same question that has been asked and answered dozens of times before? But, oh well, here it is again......

I have a Washington State Concealed Pistol License, so qualifying and paying the government tax to exercise a right has nothing to do with it.

Here they are, in order of priority to me.

1. Less chance of being attacked by a criminal. Where I live visible deterrence works. That's why armored car companies drive plainly marked vehicles with uniformed personnel carrying the money. If secrecy is so much better than why don't they drive unmarked armored vans with plain clothes employees carrying firearms concealed and the money is disguised in gym bags, backpacks or other unmarked sacks? There are only 2 or 3, at most, examples of open carriers being attacked per year - and very few of those can be proven that the visible gun was the objective of the attack.

2. Easier and faster access to the gun should it be needed. And, again, there are almost no examples of guns being grabbed from Joe Citizen open carrying who isn't also wearing a law enforcement or security guard uniform.

3. Present a positive image to the general public. 99% of what the public sees about people carrying guns comes from the media and movies and that is very seldom positive. They almost never get to see a responsible father carrying a gun for protection of himself and family during normal activities of everyday life.

4. It's just easier. With my CPL and open carry I just don't have to be concerned about keeping the gun visible or concealed. I don't have to dress around the gun, it goes on my belt as easily as my cell phone goes in my pocket.

5. I like the attention. I enjoy it when someone gives me a thumbs up or a thank you for carrying or someone comes up and asks about gun laws. And I also like it when the concealed carry only snobs just can't resist telling me that they have a concealed license and carry their gun concealed and so should I - especially if my daughter hears it because she won't hesitate to reply, "He's got no reason to hide his gun, he's not a criminal." or when I reply, "So, exactly what would you do if I pulled my gun right now, pointed it at your head and told you I was going to take your gun from you? After all, you just told me you have one."

6. The advantages just far outweigh the negatives which are really nothing more than the chance of some anti-gun manager asking me to leave their business, which has happened to me once in almost 15 years of open carrying. And once a couple of police officers asked me to conceal my gun when I was in a shopping mall with a very poorly posted anti-gun policy.

So, maybe the real question is, why wouldn't I take advantage of the advantages of open carry when they so far outweigh the negatives?

 

[Bikenut]

Maybe the question here should be, why do you prefer to open carry as oppose to concealed carry? Is it because you can't qualify for a CC permit, your state or local does not have a lawful CC permit, or you can't afford to get a CC permit? I often wonder why a person choses to open carry as opposed to concealed? Is it a cost thing or what? I live in a state were both are legal, so I wonder why people do what thy do? Your answer is.........?

Here is something I wrote a while back and I usually post it when someone starts talking about that wonderful magical mystical concealed carry tactical element of surprise baloney..... but it also is a very good reason to open carry.

---------
About that "element of surprise" thing..........

CC and OC have the very same "element of surprise" because the "element of surprise" is really nothing more than the bad guy being "surprised" to discover his intended victim ..... has a gun.

With CC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with after the bad guy has already chosen his victim and the attack is already in progress and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide to stop the attack.

With OC the bad guy is "surprised" to see his intended victim has a gun to defend himself with during the bad guy's choosing a victim process and at that point seeing the gun can make the bad guy decide not to attack at all.

But either way... it was the bad guy being "surprised" to see a gun that was the actual "element of surprise".

Quite frankly... I'd prefer the bad guy be "surprised" to see my openly carried gun and decide not to attack me so I can go home and watch the 6 o'clock news coverage .... from the comfort of my easy chair..... about the CC'er who had to pull his gun and "surprise" the bad guy who attacked him.

Does OC's "element of surprise" really work? Well.... there have been thousands of folks open carrying in many States (Like Arizona) for decades! and yet accounts of folks OC'ing being attacked are rare. And you know with the anti gun media any incident involving an open carrier being attacked would be covered over and over and over yet such has not been the case in the past nor is it now.

And, in my not so humble opinion, because CC's use of the "element of surprise" is only effective after the attack has begun but OC's use of the "element of surprise" can prevent an attack from happening............. OC's use of the "element of surprise" is far superior to CC's because....

I'd much rather watch the 6 o'clock news than to BE the news.


Now... about an OC'er being "targeted" or "shot first" by the bad guys...

OC has been practiced for DECADES in Arizona (just one State out of all the States where open carry is/has been done)... yet the incidents where an OC'er was "targeted" or "shot first" are so rare it is difficult to find any reputable incidents that can be backed up with cites and/or links to put any validity to those claims. If there were any truth to those claims shouldn't it be easy to find actual incidents especially considering there are DECADES!! of open carry to choose from?
-------------

For me personally... I like open carry because it is a political statement that I have rights. That political statement also causes curious folks to ask me about the legality of carrying openly and I get got educate them that in Michigan open carry is legal without any need to get a permit. And I get to explain that carrying without a permit is the real right to bear arms.... and THAT gets the attention of many folks. And I am proud to do my very small bit to further the actual right to bear arms.

Oh yeah... I can access my openly carried sidearm much faster than I can get to any method of concealed carry gun.

 

[SR9]

In a state that allows both I prefer concealed. Most people don't carry in my state, even though it is legal. Legal but not welcome, by most citizens or police. In the capital city you can only carry if you have a CC permit no open carry allowed. A lot of people don't think so, but it is easy to get a CC permit if you have a clean record. I had a guy come to a yard sale once carrying open. I knew he had a gun, but he had no idea I had one too. Talked to him a little, and could tell right off he had an attitude. Noticed he was by himself, figures, nobody wants to be with a guy with an attitude. He seemed to look down his nose at everyone present. Glad he left, even with out buying anything. What a "****".

 

[BluesStringer]

I don't know, but when I see a sub-forum with the title "Concealed Carry Discussion" or "Open Carry Discussion" or "Motorcycles," it would never occur to me to enter those forums just to talk down to the people who engage in those activities. I contribute in the CC Discussion forum, but never once have I gone there just to say that carrying concealed is somehow inferior to carrying open. I might stop in to correct some myth that a CC-only, uninformed snob might say about OC (shot first, targeted by bad guys, guns easily stolen and used against you - blah blah blah-friggin'-blah), but never just to challenge the practice of CC. Likewise, I'd never go to the Motorcycles forum and tell everybody....well....anything about motorcycle riding if I wasn't a motorcycle rider myself, which I am.

So my question to SR9 is, why are you even here with your jaded views of OC'er's "attitudes?" This ain't no yard sale, and it sure as heck ain't your driveway.

Blues

 

[Mainsail]

With regards to open carriers being targeted; it should be remembered....

All victims of violent crime looked exactly like someone carrying a concealed weapon.

And yet they got attacked anyway.

 

[NavyLCDR]

With regards to open carriers being targeted; it should be remembered....

All victims of violent crime looked exactly like someone carrying a concealed weapon.

And yet they got attacked anyway.

Element of Surprise: a mythical element that many believe has the same affect upon criminals that Kryptonite has upon Superman.

 

[Support The 2nd]

Maybe the question here should be, why do you prefer to open carry as oppose to concealed carry? Is it because you can't qualify for a CC permit, your state or local does not have a lawful CC permit, or you can't afford to get a CC permit? I often wonder why a person choses to open carry as opposed to concealed? Is it a cost thing or what? I live in a state were both are legal, so I wonder why people do what thy do? Your answer is.........?

You must have not read the OP. He clearly lays out multiple valid reasons to OC.

My reasons is: CC has never/and will NEVER stop a crime. I will repeat, has NEVER and will NEVER stop a crime. CC allows one to react once the crime has occurred. OC is a direct deterrent. It says, don't f** with me, to the bad guy.

 

[BluesStringer]

You must have not read the OP. He clearly lays out multiple valid reasons to OC.

My reasons is: CC has never/and will NEVER stop a crime. I will repeat, has NEVER and will NEVER stop a crime. CC allows one to react once the crime has occurred. OC is a direct deterrent. It says, don't f** with me, to the bad guy.

Man! I can't tell you how long it's been since I've seen a new member make such an unequivocally great first impression by not only supporting the accurate and pragmatic side of a 2A issue, but by taking the unabridged, literal-reading side of the Second Amendment issue to boot. Might be the best first post I've ever seen on this site. Welcome!

Blues

 

[AzBanks]

One of my big hopes in life is that this topic would eventually go away.

Here are some thoughts on it that have nothing and everything to do with guns.

Once upon a time I had a Jeep. It was a CJ5 with a lift and a 304 V8 that had been rebuilt into a MONSTER. It was a beast of a Jeep. I loved that thing. It was an awesome offroad vehicle.

I sold it.

Now I have a Porsche convertible. I've rebuilt the engine into a turbo charged monster, I've rebuilt/upgraded the suspension, brakes, interior, wheels, sound system, etc, etc, etc. I love this thing. It is an awesome on road vehicle.

So which is better, the Jeep or the Porsche?



Excuse me, but that is a really STUPID question!!! They each have their purpose and surely, each have their fans who would fight tooth and nail to claim superiority over the other. One is not better than the other. They are both great vehicles.

I will have another Jeep soon while I keep the Porsche.


I used to OC exclusively. Now I mainly CC with an occasional OC.

Which is better, OC or CC?




That is another really STUPID question!!
If you like OC, then by all means, OC. If you like CC, then by all means, CC.


Why don't we stop this stupid bickering amongst 2nd amendment supporters and take the fight to those who would take any of our rights from us. Let's fight the anti-gunners and stop fighting amongst ourselves.

 

[tcox4freedom]

Why don't we stop this stupid bickering amongst 2nd amendment supporters and take the fight to those who would take any of our rights from us. Let's fight the anti-gunners and stop fighting amongst ourselves.

I think one of the reasons this topic continues to go on is the IMPORTANCE it has pertaining to the 2nd Am.

OC'ers seem to understand that CC laws are indeed an infringement on the 2nd Am. But, most CC proponents & advocates seem to either be fooled are be happy about having their 2nd Am Rights infringed on. Ever since the CC laws were allowed to infringe upon the people, we have been fighting to keep our 2nd AM rights from slipping further away from us.

IMHO- Getting back to where OC is allowed & accepted across the country (even by those that will always CC), is a vital step to keeping our 2nd Am Rights protected and intact.




-

 

[NavyLCDR]

IMHO- Getting back to where OC is allowed & accepted across the country WITHOUT A LICENSE OR PAYING FOR GOVERNMENT PERMISION(even by those that will always CC), is a vital step to keeping our 2nd Am Rights protected and intact.

There are also those people that like to think that once they pay for their required government permission slip they are still exercising a right....

 

[vernsimpson]

With all these riots and trouble going on and perhaps spreading to other cities I wonder if it is a good idea to OC on a daily basis? Please do not get the idea that I am slamming OC! I really do not care how you carry. My stance is to CARRY!

What I mean is that there seems to be many who are rioting that want to kill cops. These same people could see someone OC and think cop. You could be targeted even when there is no trouble going on at that time. Not trying to start an argument here. I know that some believe that an OC is a deterrent and others believe that OC could get you targeted. Just thought this should be something that you should consider.

 

[Firefighterchen]

With all these riots and trouble going on and perhaps spreading to other cities I wonder if it is a good idea to OC on a daily basis? Please do not get the idea that I am slamming OC! I really do not care how you carry. My stance is to CARRY!

What I mean is that there seems to be many who are rioting that want to kill cops. These same people could see someone OC and think cop. You could be targeted even when there is no trouble going on at that time. Not trying to start an argument here. I know that some believe that an OC is a deterrent and others believe that OC could get you targeted. Just thought this should be something that you should consider.

Do you happen to notice how the armed store owners are carrying their firearms?

Sent from my D6616 using USA Carry mobile app

 

[Nightmare45]

Carry how you like. Carry both ways no issue.

 

[vernsimpson]

Do you happen to notice how the armed store owners are carrying their firearms?

Sent from my D6616 using USA Carry mobile app

Yes I have! If I owned a business I would do whatever I could to protect it, which would be my families livelihood.

My point was should anyone OC and walk down a street. Could you be targeted because the race industry and cop haters may think you are a cop! I am not saying don't OC. I am merely asking if it would be a good idea given all the crap that is going on. There are some, on the streets, who seem to be LOOKING for an excuse to start some crap! OC could be almost like smoking while filling up your car. I have seen many do it and nothing happens but all it would take is once and it could be ugly. Do whatever you want. As I said before, my position is CARRY be it OC or CC every day and be aware of your surroundings AND the people!

 

[DavidWhite]

Yes I have! If I owned a business I would do whatever I could to protect it, which would be my families livelihood.

My point was should anyone OC and walk down a street. Could you be targeted because the race industry and cop haters may think you are a cop! I am not saying don't OC. I am merely asking if it would be a good idea given all the crap that is going on. There are some, on the streets, who seem to be LOOKING for an excuse to start some crap! OC could be almost like smoking while filling up your car. I have seen many do it and nothing happens but all it would take is once and it could be ugly. Do whatever you want. As I said before, my position is CARRY be it OC or CC every day and be aware of your surroundings AND the people!

Situational awareness goes hand in hand with the responsibility of carrying a gun.
I OC and have no worries, thanks for your concern though.

 

[BluesStringer]

Unless there's a march that a particular OC'er supports the cause of, I can't imagine anyone getting within smelling-the-fires distance of an ongoing riot area on purpose, whether they're carrying CC, OC or not at all.

If, however, I absolutely needed to be in the area for some inexplicable reason, it would remain OC for me. My head would be on a constant swivel, that's for sure, and I would not be in my naturally relaxed and friendly state by any means, but I choose OC because I believe it has a deterrent value. I guess if I had to put that to the ultimate test, there'd be no place like a riot zone to do it, but realistically, I can't think of a reason important enough to make me voluntarily enter a riot zone anyway, so it's rather a moot point.

Surely there aren't a lot of "looky-loos" hanging out in riot zones, are there? Of the ones who might, how many would anyone expect to be carrying at all, whether OC or CC? I just can't imagine this is an issue for which carriers of any description needs advice for how to carry, since anyone with a working brain would avoid such zones at nearly all costs. At least this guy with a working brain would.

Blues

 

[Firefighterchen]

Yes I have! If I owned a business I would do whatever I could to protect it, which would be my families livelihood.

My point was should anyone OC and walk down a street. Could you be targeted because the race industry and cop haters may think you are a cop! I am not saying don't OC. I am merely asking if it would be a good idea given all the crap that is going on. There are some, on the streets, who seem to be LOOKING for an excuse to start some crap! OC could be almost like smoking while filling up your car. I have seen many do it and nothing happens but all it would take is once and it could be ugly. Do whatever you want. As I said before, my position is CARRY be it OC or CC every day and be aware of your surroundings AND the people!

It seems, openly carrying is deterring those from destroying certain stores. Carrying a gun, in any manner, is like carrying a cigarette in your example, I wouldn't be around the gas pump either way.

Would you walk down those streets carrying concealed? All it takes is one person to choose his next unarmed victim...and there are a lot of people angry there now.

What difference does it make how you carry, if someone is dumb enough to want to be down there to begin with, a gun won't help him. Those that have to be there, are showing their arms and being left alone...the others...are burning.

Sent from my D6616 using USA Carry mobile app

 

[tcox4freedom]

Here's an article I just saw linked on another forum- Forgive me if it's already been linked here. (Makes some of the same points Mainsail did in the OP)

The Pro Liberty Choice: Dispelling The Myths Of Open Carry | The Daily Caller