The Open Carry Argument

With all these riots and trouble going on and perhaps spreading to other cities I wonder if it is a good idea to OC on a daily basis? Please do not get the idea that I am slamming OC! I really do not care how you carry. My stance is to CARRY!

What I mean is that there seems to be many who are rioting that want to kill cops. These same people could see someone OC and think cop. You could be targeted even when there is no trouble going on at that time. Not trying to start an argument here. I know that some believe that an OC is a deterrent and others believe that OC could get you targeted. Just thought this should be something that you should consider.

Well you continue the "argument"; We have "considered" it and think that the deterrent factor prevails. It may get you targeted, nobody knows but it's our personal choice to do. We open carriers don't constantly make the claim that concealed carriers want to ambush criminals and kill them; So why don't both sides keep their really subjective opinions to themselves. Nobody's opinion is gonna be changed.
 
Well you continue the "argument"; We have "considered" it and think that the deterrent factor prevails. It may get you targeted, nobody knows but it's our personal choice to do. We open carriers don't constantly make the claim that concealed carriers want to ambush criminals and kill them; So why don't both sides keep their really subjective opinions to themselves. Nobody's opinion is gonna be changed.

I understand the frustration, and liked your post, but want to add that my mind was changed by several OC'ers on this board who kept pluggin' away with well-reasoned coverage of the pros and cons whenever myths and lies were posted. Between them and a change in the law in this state that prevents cops from using the mere sight of an OC'ed weapon as RAS for a Terry stop, the way was cleared for me to make a rational decision to start OC'ing.

I have no patience for CC-only snobs who promulgate the notion that CC is somehow the provenance of a superior intellect, or the inverse, that OC is somehow indicative of inferior critical thinking abilities. If someone posts about the subject with honest questions and/or objective and open-minded discussion, I have no problem with that and may well contribute to the discussion. If someone starts spewing myths about getting targeted/taken out first/having your weapon easily stolen and used against you, I think that kind of Fudd nonsense should be rebuked so as to give newcomers or casual readers of the OC Forum the side that comes from personal experience. Not to change their minds necessarily, but to give them real-world experiential examples countering the sheeple BS.

Blues
 
With open carry likely to pass soon in my state I've had a lot of very interesting discussions about open carry lately.

My personal view is that the disadvantages of open carry outweigh the advantages so I'm unlikely to do it. However, just because *I* think something isn't a good idea doesn't mean it should be a crime. Everyone has to make their own choice in regards to carrying firearms, and although my choice would be not to do it, I still derive a benefit from those who do. Although the comparison is a little uncomfortable I would compare open carry to the public display of homosexuality. Those that do it put it in front of the public to see and "get used to it" whether they want to or not. I think open carry does the same service for armed citizens. It puts our rights in the faces of people who may not be comfortable with them, but over many years, people get used to the idea and many people just don't care anymore. Open carry is the same sort of "in your face" activism that has worked so well for the gay community and it's time we started using it as well.

My own thinking is that since I'm not a police officer, I don't necessarily want to draw attention to my defensive measures. My gun is for my own use and I don't want to advertise my options to anyone. Those that know me know to stay clear of my gun side and that's enough. There are many situations where I man choose to withdraw from a situation rather than shoot back - my goal survival, not justice and I feel that openly displaying a firearm may take options away from me. However, I think open carry does bring an awareness to society of personal responsibility that has been lost and I'm glad that people are willing to do it.

We're here.
We're armed.
Get used to it.
 
With open carry likely to pass soon in my state I've had a lot of very interesting discussions about open carry lately.

My personal view is that the disadvantages of open carry outweigh the advantages so I'm unlikely to do it. However, just because *I* think something isn't a good idea doesn't mean it should be a crime. Everyone has to make their own choice in regards to carrying firearms, and although my choice would be not to do it, I still derive a benefit from those who do. Although the comparison is a little uncomfortable I would compare open carry to the public display of homosexuality. Those that do it put it in front of the public to see and "get used to it" whether they want to or not. I think open carry does the same service for armed citizens. It puts our rights in the faces of people who may not be comfortable with them, but over many years, people get used to the idea and many people just don't care anymore. Open carry is the same sort of "in your face" activism that has worked so well for the gay community and it's time we started using it as well.

My own thinking is that since I'm not a police officer, I don't necessarily want to draw attention to my defensive measures. My gun is for my own use and I don't want to advertise my options to anyone. Those that know me know to stay clear of my gun side and that's enough. There are many situations where I man choose to withdraw from a situation rather than shoot back - my goal survival, not justice and I feel that openly displaying a firearm may take options away from me. However, I think open carry does bring an awareness to society of personal responsibility that has been lost and I'm glad that people are willing to do it.

We're here.
We're armed.
Get used to it.
too bad your "thinking" doesnt have any facts to back it up.... However, it is your choice and no-one elses how you choose to carry...
 
Although the comparison is a little uncomfortable I would compare open carry to the public display of homosexuality. Those that do it put it in front of the public to see and "get used to it" whether they want to or not.

If that were my motivation, I could accomplish the same thing by having the 2nd Amendment tattooed on my forehead. Between that and my open carried weapon, most rational folks would "get used to it whether they want to or not" rather than confront with an eye towards victimizing me, I feel relatively safe in assuming.

But then, I don't care if they get used to it or not, because that isn't my motivation. My motivation is singular. No political statements intended by it, though obviously, as your post demonstrates, some folks will think they understand my motivations for doing just about anything with exactly zero input from me about it. I have no control over that, but I do have the ability to correct the errant assumption, so here it is:

I do intend to draw a minor amount of attention to myself from one group, and one group only - criminals who would mistake me for the easy mark that concealed carriers are mistaken for every single day of the week. I want those who think I'm just another average victim to them to know beforehand that they're getting ready to try to victimize someone who is visibly prepared to defend against it. In the overwhelming majority of such random and unquantifiable encounters, it is my belief, based on my own personal experience and that of many others with whom I communicate regularly, that victimizers will choose to ignore me as a potential victim rather than taking the chance that the consequence for trying will be their own funeral. Criminals by and large are cowards. My openly carried firearm gives them something their inherent cowardice can feed on. Period.

Open carry is the same sort of "in your face" activism that has worked so well for the gay community and it's time we started using it as well.

Utter nonsense. Open carry is a tactical decision first and foremost, and any acceptance of normalcy that the sheeple get from it is a side-effect at best. And I've never gotten in anyone's face about OC. Exercising a right in one's daily life is not "activism," it's exercising a right and that's all. Our Founding Fathers already did the activism for us. The fact that Texas (or wherever) is only now getting around to recognize OC as every bit as much of an exercise of 2nd Amendment rights as concealed carry is only means that state's government has been oppressive of your rights for all these years, not that folks who have convinced them to relax the oppressive laws are somehow different in nature to those who've enjoyed the privilege of CC all this time.

There is nothing even remotely comparable between one group who forces their lifestyle on a reticent, wary public, and another group who chooses one way of exercising a fundamental, enumerated right over another way of exercising the same right. The right preexisted ratification of the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, and no particular way of carrying a weapon was ever contemplated once the right was acknowledged within the Constitution through the inclusion of it in the BoR. Practicing OC isn't asking society to change its moral values, it's nothing more than an embracing of the societal norms articulated within our most vaunted founding documents.

....and I feel that openly displaying a firearm may take options away from me.

Or it may take options away from those who would victimize you before they actually try. Does such a criminal just go home after they've decided that the odds aren't in their favor at the sight of an OC'ed weapon? Nope, certainly not in most cases I would presume. They most-likely walk down the block and choose another more vulnerable-looking victim, and that may well be a CC'er who not only has to react to an imminent threat, but has to do so from under concealment and possibly while using his/her weak hand to defend against an attack. That's the rationale for OC, that it deters victimization, while CC just makes one look like every other potential victim. Nothing's guaranteed to be sure, but if you've got a logical basis for being in opposition to the stated rationale, you'll be the first that most of us have ever heard, because the logic in the rationale is rather undeniable, whether or not it can be proven that it works as-intended xxx% of the time.

Blues
 
Ten of thousands or who know how many bad guys do not report I was going to rob a store however saw a person with a firearm decided to move on to a gun free store or find another victim. That would be some usable data if they did.
CCing has it place however while CCing one looks like all the other targets ready to be picked out as the next victim.
John Stossel had a special I believe it was in 2010 where he interviewed several inmates asked them what they were most afraid of when committing their crime. They all said the armed citizen.
 
Recently visited my family in another state. It is an open carry state. My son, grandsons and their wives all open carry. I have a couple of permits from my state and others and carried concealed. No one ever questioned or , to the best of my knowledge, ever gave us the "strange stair" for carrying. we went to resturants, businesses, and had a range day. I found it all very cool. I live in an open carry state myself, but rarely see anyone carry open.
 
I agree with open carry, BUT in this town (Fallon, Nevada). I was told by the manager of the Wal-Mart store, CC would be tolerated, but, Open Carry will not be allowed in HIS STORE. I have asked the local law enforcement dept. both city and county. I was told Nevada is a OPEN CARRY state. But was it worth the hassel that you will experience if " SOMEONE SEES YOU ? they must ( law enforcement ) responde to all calls " person with a gun ". I still think that OC is the way to go. Like they say "Hyenas avoid the Lion.

That happens quite often here in Ohio, -also an OC state (per ORC 9.68)- mainly in the northern half of the state and LE is also required to respond to calls of man with a gun even when no allegation of criminal behavior is made. In the northwestern corner of our state where there seems to be a lot of ignorance and unabashed resistance to that section of our state constitution, one such officer (from the Toledo Police Department) took it upon himself to exceed his limits and may face significant financial consequences for it.

The PDF is http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12540&d=1432475892 for the 6th Appeals decision.
 
That happens quite often here in Ohio, -also an OC state (per ORC 9.68)- mainly in the northern half of the state and LE is also required to respond to calls of man with a gun even when no allegation of criminal behavior is made. In the northwestern corner of our state where there seems to be a lot of ignorance and unabashed resistance to that section of our state constitution, one such officer (from the Toledo Police Department) took it upon himself to exceed his limits and may face significant financial consequences for it.

The PDF is http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12540&d=1432475892 for the 6th Appeals decision.

I'm glad we don't have that problem in Washington. After a couple of successful lawsuits against different police departments across the state, 911 operators are being trained to screen calls and most won't make it past the 911 operator. They ask a simple question - "What is the person with gun actually doing and where is the gun?" If the answer is, "Well, he's pushing his kid in a swing in a park and the gun is in a holster!" The 911 answer is, "Well, then, there is no need for police presence because there is no indication that a crime is being committed."

Also, if the police "must respond", they can show up, see the man shopping in Wal Mart with a gun in a holster, and sign it off. No requirement to interact with the person carrying the gun and if the 911 operators aren't screening the calls - that just isn't my problem - they need to start interacting with the people illegally calling 911, not the law abiding citizens shopping with a lawfully carried firearm in a holster.
 
That happens quite often here in Ohio, -also an OC state (per ORC 9.68)- mainly in the northern half of the state and LE is also required to respond to calls of man with a gun even when no allegation of criminal behavior is made. In the northwestern corner of our state where there seems to be a lot of ignorance and unabashed resistance to that section of our state constitution, one such officer (from the Toledo Police Department) took it upon himself to exceed his limits and may face significant financial consequences for it.

The PDF is http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12540&d=1432475892 for the 6th Appeals decision.

I live in Ohio and OC every time I leave the house, except during cold weather when I have to wear a coat. I reside just south of Canton/Akron area and have never had a LEO called on me for MWAG. I have not had a individual accost me for open carrying either in Ohio (Indiana that is another story). I know a number of LEO's and know they are fully aware of our rights as citizens in Ohio to open carry, none of them are looking for trouble they just want to get through their day and go home, granted that isn't the mentality of all LEO's and the information they may receive from 911 may not always be completely accurate. BUT that should not be a deterrent to any of us who wish to OC. I will not allow ignorance or arrogance to keep me from exercising my rights as I see them legally.
 
Why is there a "open carry argument" ? You either do or you don't. You can or you can't. End of argument.........
 
Why?

Because open carry gets attacked by concealed carriers and anti gun nuts all the time...

Why is there a "gun rights" issue at all?
 
We know who is armed when you open carry. but you don't know who is carrying concealed. It gives CCer's the advantage in most cases. I spoke of the time I had a yard sale and a guy showed up carrying open. I, as well as everybody else saw his gun. He seemed to have an "attitude" about him. It made a few people nervous. What he and others didn't know was , I was carrying also, concealed, and neither he or anyone else knew that.
 
We know who is armed when you open carry. but you don't know who is carrying concealed. It gives CCer's the advantage in most cases. I spoke of the time I had a yard sale and a guy showed up carrying open. I, as well as everybody else saw his gun. He seemed to have an "attitude" about him. It made a few people nervous. What he and others didn't know was , I was carrying also, concealed, and neither he or anyone else knew that.

What advantage? You just told us, "I, as well as everybody else saw his gun. He seemed to have an 'attitude' about him. It made a few people nervous." Well, guess what....a criminal looking for a quick steal of a wallet with the least amount of hassle (which is what the vast majority of criminals are looking for - easy targets with no hassle) is going to feel the same way about that same guy and just pass on him and move on down the street one block or wait 5 minutes for the next guy to come along who looks just like everyone else. It's people like you who seem to have the attitude of, "Just wait till some criminal attacks me so I can whip out my 'element of surprise' and pop a cap in his a$$!" That is much less of an advantage than to never be chosen as a target of opportunity to begin with.
 
We know who is armed when you open carry. but you don't know who is carrying concealed. It gives CCer's the advantage in most cases. I spoke of the time I had a yard sale and a guy showed up carrying open. I, as well as everybody else saw his gun. He seemed to have an "attitude" about him. It made a few people nervous. What he and others didn't know was , I was carrying also, concealed, and neither he or anyone else knew that.

Watt an emotional filled liberal argument...
 
What he and others didn't know was , I was carrying also, concealed, and neither he or anyone else knew that.

So you had a super-secret holster installed by your proctologist? All you really know is that no one approached you about your gun. We all print or expose part of the gun at some point.
Both OCers and CCers can have attitudes .

The advantages of either carry method over the other are variable and depend on circumstances of the specific case, has bad guy deployed weapon, how close are innocents, how many BGs, how quickly and accurately can good guy deploy the gun, etc.
I carry concealed. I am not automatically critical of anyone’s choice of carry. My state allows only CC, and that is with a license. If it passed OC I would probably still do CC in most areas I frequent. Travelling in unknown areas I would most likely carry OC. Yes, I may be taking an extra risk in one and scaring people in the other.
 

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
49,523
Messages
610,661
Members
74,992
Latest member
RedDotArmsTraining
Back
Top