The Open Carry Argument
- Thread starter Mainsail
- Start date
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
I'll take a crack as some of your questions...but I don't think you will ever understand the answers until you open your mind. Let me explain that first.
So far in your descriptions of meet and greets and open carriers, you have depicted us as,
1. smart ass "know it all"
2. gun-toting locals shoving guns down their throats
3. pissed off right fighter
4. Billybobs from the trailer park
5. gun-toting nuts
6. stereotypical "trailer trash, beer swilling, gun-toting rednecks"
These descriptions are primarily based off of youtube videos (from at least what I can tell of your research so far). You say you don't want an argument, or hate responses, but when you come on here with descriptions like that, what would you expect? A lot of us will take that personally insulting. Of the people in this forum, 1 person has met me, that is Santa. He can attest to how I dress, present myself, and how well educated and understanding I am. Of all the people that I have met at my meet and greets, I wouldn't describe anyone I have met as less than me. We get enough flak from the ill-informed media and anti-gun crowd, but from another gun owner? I expect much more. If you can change the image you are projecting of us, you will understand the concept behind meet and greets much easier.
To try and answer some of your questions now. What is the goal of a meet and greet? You have narrowed it down to two answers, education or harrassment. Well, there are a lot more goals than that. Here are some of the previous goals of the last meet and greets I have attended:
- Get to know other open carriers in my surrounding area that I have not met.
- Clean up a local public shooting range.
- Discuss the upcoming political battles of our local area.
- Have a good time and eat good food.
Would you be interested in a 45 minute video of me walking around introducing myself to 20 gentlemen and chit chatting? Or the 30 minutes video of me raking trash in a dust cloud sipping on my waterpack? Or would you get bored and move on to the 3 minute video of a man shouting at a police officer, where there is more action and more swearing? I understand there are very disturbing videos, but they do not represent the majority.
Of these last few meet and greets, have we educated the public? Yes, we had people come up and ask us questions. Was that our goal? No, but we enjoyed speaking with the curious people. Did we educate the police? Don't you want them to learn what we are all about? Unfortunately we did not have any LE's come by (because the fictional story you stated between the mayor and chief doesn't happen in the majority of places), but we would have welcomed them as well. Our local LE's have had their problems with OC, and they have had extensive retraining in the last few years. 2 of the 3 cities are very pleasant to OC in now.
You say you do not see the outcome, whether it is good or bad, because you believe we are not getting the message to the right people. I can say from personal experience, we are getting the message to the right people, for me it is the people in my town. The people who didn't know it was not only legal, but a good thing that we have a knowledgeable and level headed armed citizenship in the area.
How are we presenting ourselves? Do I believe we should be all wearing a suit or formal outfit to represent gun owners? No. That in my mind is a misrepresentation of the common gun owner. We dress how we walk our life. In our last meet and greet, I met a man named Mark. He wore khakis, a nice t shirt, a sturdy belt and holstered a 1911 in a very nice leather holster. Another guy I met was named Brady. He wore a nice black jacket (Northface if I remember correctly) and jeans. Holstered an XDM in a nice kydex holster. Would I have preferred them in a suit? No. They represented the common gun owner, and open carrier, perfectly.
You have great idea's on how to educate on a mass scale. Great ideas on how to educated on a much larger scale, but focused on the local area, than the 10-20 people that asked us questions at our meet and greet. That takes much more time, money, and effort, and is unrealistic to have all the time. Do we need them? YESSS, and it would be awesome to work together and get that done! Realistically though, it is much easier to print off 100 fliers that have been made for my state, post up on a forum, "Meet and greet 12/10/11 at XXX. We want to do YYY. Hope you can make it."
I'd like to make a shout out to Tuts40. He is a member here who is doing his part all the time by talking with his representative. You like the big picture, but wanting to carry tomorrow, the next day, and the next day, is a small picture. I want my children to carry a firearm to protect our family and the family they will start. I want my grandchildren to learn how to safely operate a firearm. That is the big picture, and it takes small steps to get to a run, and a run to get to a leap. We have a lot of hurdles to overcome.
So far in your descriptions of meet and greets and open carriers, you have depicted us as,
1. smart ass "know it all"
2. gun-toting locals shoving guns down their throats
3. pissed off right fighter
4. Billybobs from the trailer park
5. gun-toting nuts
6. stereotypical "trailer trash, beer swilling, gun-toting rednecks"
These descriptions are primarily based off of youtube videos (from at least what I can tell of your research so far). You say you don't want an argument, or hate responses, but when you come on here with descriptions like that, what would you expect? A lot of us will take that personally insulting. Of the people in this forum, 1 person has met me, that is Santa. He can attest to how I dress, present myself, and how well educated and understanding I am. Of all the people that I have met at my meet and greets, I wouldn't describe anyone I have met as less than me. We get enough flak from the ill-informed media and anti-gun crowd, but from another gun owner? I expect much more. If you can change the image you are projecting of us, you will understand the concept behind meet and greets much easier.
To try and answer some of your questions now. What is the goal of a meet and greet? You have narrowed it down to two answers, education or harrassment. Well, there are a lot more goals than that. Here are some of the previous goals of the last meet and greets I have attended:
- Get to know other open carriers in my surrounding area that I have not met.
- Clean up a local public shooting range.
- Discuss the upcoming political battles of our local area.
- Have a good time and eat good food.
Would you be interested in a 45 minute video of me walking around introducing myself to 20 gentlemen and chit chatting? Or the 30 minutes video of me raking trash in a dust cloud sipping on my waterpack? Or would you get bored and move on to the 3 minute video of a man shouting at a police officer, where there is more action and more swearing? I understand there are very disturbing videos, but they do not represent the majority.
Of these last few meet and greets, have we educated the public? Yes, we had people come up and ask us questions. Was that our goal? No, but we enjoyed speaking with the curious people. Did we educate the police? Don't you want them to learn what we are all about? Unfortunately we did not have any LE's come by (because the fictional story you stated between the mayor and chief doesn't happen in the majority of places), but we would have welcomed them as well. Our local LE's have had their problems with OC, and they have had extensive retraining in the last few years. 2 of the 3 cities are very pleasant to OC in now.
You say you do not see the outcome, whether it is good or bad, because you believe we are not getting the message to the right people. I can say from personal experience, we are getting the message to the right people, for me it is the people in my town. The people who didn't know it was not only legal, but a good thing that we have a knowledgeable and level headed armed citizenship in the area.
How are we presenting ourselves? Do I believe we should be all wearing a suit or formal outfit to represent gun owners? No. That in my mind is a misrepresentation of the common gun owner. We dress how we walk our life. In our last meet and greet, I met a man named Mark. He wore khakis, a nice t shirt, a sturdy belt and holstered a 1911 in a very nice leather holster. Another guy I met was named Brady. He wore a nice black jacket (Northface if I remember correctly) and jeans. Holstered an XDM in a nice kydex holster. Would I have preferred them in a suit? No. They represented the common gun owner, and open carrier, perfectly.
You have great idea's on how to educate on a mass scale. Great ideas on how to educated on a much larger scale, but focused on the local area, than the 10-20 people that asked us questions at our meet and greet. That takes much more time, money, and effort, and is unrealistic to have all the time. Do we need them? YESSS, and it would be awesome to work together and get that done! Realistically though, it is much easier to print off 100 fliers that have been made for my state, post up on a forum, "Meet and greet 12/10/11 at XXX. We want to do YYY. Hope you can make it."
I'd like to make a shout out to Tuts40. He is a member here who is doing his part all the time by talking with his representative. You like the big picture, but wanting to carry tomorrow, the next day, and the next day, is a small picture. I want my children to carry a firearm to protect our family and the family they will start. I want my grandchildren to learn how to safely operate a firearm. That is the big picture, and it takes small steps to get to a run, and a run to get to a leap. We have a lot of hurdles to overcome.
Firefighterchen,
Thank you for your comments. Except for the open mind remark. I'm one of the most open-minded people you'll probably ever meet my friend. As for the descriptions I used in my comments...they were not from youtube, but rather some from right here on this forum, and some other forums. I know that most all of you ladies and gentlemen aren't dressing like Larry the Cable guy either. My point was merely that appearances do matter, and they do influence people's reactions especially to small groups.
I think it's wonderful that you and a group of other like-minded individuals can get together to better your local area's perception of gun ownership. And I haven't narrowed anything down to just education or harrassment. So far we've hit on public perception, and appearances. There are several issues we could discuss when it comes to open carry. It just so happens that right now, I'm trying to figure out what the pros and cons are to group carry? And my supposed research, that you think comes primarily from youtube, couldn't be farther from the truth. I only used that as an example because it was something we've all likely seen at one point or another. I gathered most of my information from newspaper articles, forums both pro-gun & anti-gun, the Buckeye Firearms Association, "which is an award winning gun rights advocate", talking to local politicians, and police officers, and any articles in magazines that are enlightening to the law abiding gun owner.
Do I know it all? Absolutely not! Do I believe in fighting for our constitutional rights? Absolutely! Do I believe that everyone who owns a gun should dress like a businessman, and wear a suit to support our cause? Y'all know better than that. But I do think that anyone attempting to represent us as a group to the media, should. That would be a pro-gun speaker, gun store owner, gun manufacturer, local politician, etc.... Why? Because we don't want the message diluted by distractions or affected by public opinion based on the way anyone dresses. And you know as well as I do, that people live to tear people down, just for the way they look! Sad, but true.
Yeah I tend to look at the big picture. The reason for that is because we want to use anything and everything that works in one part of the country, to work everywhere else as well. I know that's a tough one, but it shows solidarity. One for all, all for one. If we've already had talks with our local opposition, then what are we left with? This forum, or reaching out to the rest of our gun owning bretheren?
Retraining is probably the consensus nationally as a need for all aspects of LE to do. I mentioned in an earlier reply if not here, on another forum that retraining needs to happen not only for the LEO, but for the Dispatcher taking that 911 call. They need to determine whether a crime's been committed? Or if Joe Law Abiding Citizen is just walking across some parking lot somewhere? And someone just happened to see a firearm? Lets get our LEO up-to-date on these situations. And like I keep saying, "We need to get out to the masses, that openly carrying a firearm in public, is a legal activity, and that citizen's need to learn what their rights are, so we don't get our's trampled on.
As for the time, money, and effort being unrealistic?...Well it's as easy as you and your OC friends making a few phone calls, and inviting a couple of gun rights advocates to your next town meeting. I'm telling you right now, alot of questions could be answered, as well as alot of fears calmed. Oh, and don't forget to call the local newspaper in to do an article on your town meeting. This is where it starts. This is where an education begins. This is where that advice on retraining 911 operators, and LEO is developed.
As far as the video thing is concerned...I can see your kinda hung up on it? That's understandable, I referred to it probably more than I should have. Sorry for that. I would prefer to sit in on a town meeting for enlightenment, then to watch any first person video about open or concealed carry, where it all goes wrong with LE involved. It hurts us all as law abiding citizens, to see that kind of "selfish attention getting" going on.
I would actually like to meet other open carry, or interested open carry men and women in my area too. Sharing information like we are here, is more interesting than the 3 minute video of a man shouting at a police officer, where there is more action and more swearing?
A QUOTE FROM YOU TO ME..."You say you do not see the outcome, whether it is good or bad, because you believe we are not getting the message to the right people. I can say from personal experience, we are getting the message to the right people, for me it is the people in my town. The people who didn't know it was not only legal, but a good thing that we have a knowledgeable and level headed armed citizenship in the area."
Firefighterchen, if the only place you ever plan on openly carrying your firearm is in your hometown, then this may work for you. I want to be able to carry anywhere in my state, and anywhere in any other open carry state. That's why we need a bigger shovel and bucket...to dig through all the garbage, to get to bottom of all this.
YOUR QUOTE...I want my children to carry a firearm to protect our family and the family they will start. I want my grandchildren to learn how to safely operate a firearm. That is the big picture, and it takes small steps to get to a run, and a run to get to a leap. We have a lot of hurdles to overcome. I COULDN'T AGREE MORE MY FRIEND!!!
Thank you for your comments. Except for the open mind remark. I'm one of the most open-minded people you'll probably ever meet my friend. As for the descriptions I used in my comments...they were not from youtube, but rather some from right here on this forum, and some other forums. I know that most all of you ladies and gentlemen aren't dressing like Larry the Cable guy either. My point was merely that appearances do matter, and they do influence people's reactions especially to small groups.
I think it's wonderful that you and a group of other like-minded individuals can get together to better your local area's perception of gun ownership. And I haven't narrowed anything down to just education or harrassment. So far we've hit on public perception, and appearances. There are several issues we could discuss when it comes to open carry. It just so happens that right now, I'm trying to figure out what the pros and cons are to group carry? And my supposed research, that you think comes primarily from youtube, couldn't be farther from the truth. I only used that as an example because it was something we've all likely seen at one point or another. I gathered most of my information from newspaper articles, forums both pro-gun & anti-gun, the Buckeye Firearms Association, "which is an award winning gun rights advocate", talking to local politicians, and police officers, and any articles in magazines that are enlightening to the law abiding gun owner.
Do I know it all? Absolutely not! Do I believe in fighting for our constitutional rights? Absolutely! Do I believe that everyone who owns a gun should dress like a businessman, and wear a suit to support our cause? Y'all know better than that. But I do think that anyone attempting to represent us as a group to the media, should. That would be a pro-gun speaker, gun store owner, gun manufacturer, local politician, etc.... Why? Because we don't want the message diluted by distractions or affected by public opinion based on the way anyone dresses. And you know as well as I do, that people live to tear people down, just for the way they look! Sad, but true.
Yeah I tend to look at the big picture. The reason for that is because we want to use anything and everything that works in one part of the country, to work everywhere else as well. I know that's a tough one, but it shows solidarity. One for all, all for one. If we've already had talks with our local opposition, then what are we left with? This forum, or reaching out to the rest of our gun owning bretheren?
Retraining is probably the consensus nationally as a need for all aspects of LE to do. I mentioned in an earlier reply if not here, on another forum that retraining needs to happen not only for the LEO, but for the Dispatcher taking that 911 call. They need to determine whether a crime's been committed? Or if Joe Law Abiding Citizen is just walking across some parking lot somewhere? And someone just happened to see a firearm? Lets get our LEO up-to-date on these situations. And like I keep saying, "We need to get out to the masses, that openly carrying a firearm in public, is a legal activity, and that citizen's need to learn what their rights are, so we don't get our's trampled on.
As for the time, money, and effort being unrealistic?...Well it's as easy as you and your OC friends making a few phone calls, and inviting a couple of gun rights advocates to your next town meeting. I'm telling you right now, alot of questions could be answered, as well as alot of fears calmed. Oh, and don't forget to call the local newspaper in to do an article on your town meeting. This is where it starts. This is where an education begins. This is where that advice on retraining 911 operators, and LEO is developed.
As far as the video thing is concerned...I can see your kinda hung up on it? That's understandable, I referred to it probably more than I should have. Sorry for that. I would prefer to sit in on a town meeting for enlightenment, then to watch any first person video about open or concealed carry, where it all goes wrong with LE involved. It hurts us all as law abiding citizens, to see that kind of "selfish attention getting" going on.
I would actually like to meet other open carry, or interested open carry men and women in my area too. Sharing information like we are here, is more interesting than the 3 minute video of a man shouting at a police officer, where there is more action and more swearing?
A QUOTE FROM YOU TO ME..."You say you do not see the outcome, whether it is good or bad, because you believe we are not getting the message to the right people. I can say from personal experience, we are getting the message to the right people, for me it is the people in my town. The people who didn't know it was not only legal, but a good thing that we have a knowledgeable and level headed armed citizenship in the area."
Firefighterchen, if the only place you ever plan on openly carrying your firearm is in your hometown, then this may work for you. I want to be able to carry anywhere in my state, and anywhere in any other open carry state. That's why we need a bigger shovel and bucket...to dig through all the garbage, to get to bottom of all this.
YOUR QUOTE...I want my children to carry a firearm to protect our family and the family they will start. I want my grandchildren to learn how to safely operate a firearm. That is the big picture, and it takes small steps to get to a run, and a run to get to a leap. We have a lot of hurdles to overcome. I COULDN'T AGREE MORE MY FRIEND!!!
You know what a redneck is as well as I do. And about the bet...you'd lose.
Irregardless of the above multiple paragraphs, here is what many of us do in SC. In our state it is legal to open carry if going to/from hunting, fishing, or an organized shooting event. When I am doing any of those, I will often open carry. In that case, I am dressed either as a hunter, or in temperature-appropriate clothing for fishing or outdoor shooting. I don't make any points about trying to talk to people about open carry. I just do whatever I would normally do, business as usual. I've never had anyone ask me about the weapon. A few friends who do this have been asked about it and do their best to explain the law. ONE time I heard about a friend at a boat landing who had a man tell him he was disturbed by him carrying openly. My buddy explained the law, and the small crowd that gathered was on his side. The complainer wasn't from here and didn't actually appear to be frightened. My buddy thinks he was just gunshy and wanted to cause trouble. In any case, my buddy made it a learning experience.
I am certain I look like a "redneck" when I'm on my way hunting or fishing and a yuppie when I'm going shooting. Hasn't made a difference as far as I can tell. My point is that open carry in this context has served as an education tool as well as a desensitizing tool that I have employed for over 30 years.
I am certain I look like a "redneck" when I'm on my way hunting or fishing and a yuppie when I'm going shooting. Hasn't made a difference as far as I can tell. My point is that open carry in this context has served as an education tool as well as a desensitizing tool that I have employed for over 30 years.
You do it your way, and I'll do it my way. Whether or not it is written in the law, it is implied that you let the officer know you are carrying. And why else would you need to show your permit, IF, you are not carrying and had no gun in the car? Besides, when the officer sees that gun permit, one of the first questions he's going to ask is ""Are you carrying now?" or "Where is the gun?" . Just makes sense to tell the LEO right off the bat.
Oh, and don't post anymore statements saying "in S.C. we....." or "most of us in S,C,..." . I am in S.C. too and don't live too far from you(less than 3 miles), and I can definitely say that YOU aren't the spokesman for South Carolinian Gun owners. And we DON'T walk around with guns on our hips to go shooting, if we are getting out of the vehicle...YOU MAY, but then again, that's exactly what I'd expect of you. That act only invites unwanted attention from citizens and LEO's. We are NOT an OPEN CARRY State...so it is VERY STRANGE to see someone walking around with a firearm on their hip, with no ID that says "police".
Oh, and don't post anymore statements saying "in S.C. we....." or "most of us in S,C,..." . I am in S.C. too and don't live too far from you(less than 3 miles), and I can definitely say that YOU aren't the spokesman for South Carolinian Gun owners. And we DON'T walk around with guns on our hips to go shooting, if we are getting out of the vehicle...YOU MAY, but then again, that's exactly what I'd expect of you. That act only invites unwanted attention from citizens and LEO's. We are NOT an OPEN CARRY State...so it is VERY STRANGE to see someone walking around with a firearm on their hip, with no ID that says "police".
Big Gay Al
New member
In Michigan, our law reads that we must inform LEOs if we are stopped, AND if we are packing. If we are not packing, there is no duty for us to inform. However, I've seen some minor horror stories of people who were stopped, were not packing, yet the LEO yelled and berated them for NOT telling him about their "gun" that they didn't have when he ran their license, and it came up with info saying they have a CPL.
I have advised friends of mine, if stopped, their best course of action, if they don't have a firearm but do have a CPL is to advise the officer, that yes, they have a CPL, but are not currently armed. It might save them a minor drama scene at the traffic stop.
Myself, I get around that situation by ALWAYS packing. So I always hand over my CPL along with my driving license, registration and proof of insurance, whenever I'm stopped.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
GOV5:248920 said:
That's an interesting statement. How do you know what's implied? what other rights have an implied meaning they forgot to mention?
My state has no duty to inform. That means I do not have to inform, and will not unless voluntarily deciding to. No other implied meanings.
Aren't reasonable restrictions on certain types of firearms based off implied usage? It's not law anymore, but it's implied no one needs anything semi automatic, that looks like a military gun, or has more than a 10 round capacity. why? Well, of course... it's implied that those gun owners are just mass murders waiting to happen. So while it's not law, it's implied they shouldn't be allowed to sell them. *sarcasm* Implied = opinion = infringement.
This is something that I don't understnad. Why is there MORE concern about a gun once the officer finds out about a carry permit/license regardless of how they find out about the carry permit/license? I would think the rataional reacion by a police officer would be that his concern about a gun being present after he finds out about a CPL should go to next to zero. The gun is 99% insured to be legally carried by the CPL. The person possessing the CPL has voluntarily submitted to and more than likely paid for a background check on themselves. I just don't understand this reaction...
BC1
,
I would have to agree with this. During my last traffic stop the LEO asked if I had any guns, drugs or nukes in the car. I told him I was armed. He asked for the permit. He looked at it and threw it back to me and then advised me the purpose of the stop was a burned-out brake light. He wanted to make sure I knew before someone rear-ended me. He was friendly and had no concern over where the gun even was. I wasn't ticketed.
I'm not sure who first used the term "redneck" on this thread? But the term "redneck" was first used during the Battle of Blair Mountain, W.Va. where coal minor's were fighting the Coal Co. to Unionize. Union men gathered from Charleston, W.Va., marched down, and met up with the coal minors in Matewan, W.Va. They all brought red handkerchiefs, and tied them around their necks to guard against friendly fire, during the gun battle which occured at Blair Mtn. This is the first time the term redneck was used.
Is that close enough?
Safety. Thats it? They deal with all kinds of criminal elements while on duty. All they're asking of us, is to inform them if we "are" armed. Before the LEO even approaches our vehicle; he knows we are CPL. In Ohio, it is the armed citizen's duty to inform to the LEO if we "are" indeed armed at the first opportunity. It is advised by CPL instructors to inform them whether your armed or not. I don't agree with this. I inform if I'm armed only. Otherwise, if that officer feels so inclined to ask if there are any weapons in the vehicle, I can ask him why he's asking? Why? Because he already knows I'm CPL. If I haven't informed him that I'm not carrying, then I've not broken any laws have I? At this point, LE asking me if there are any weapons in the vehicle, is like me asking him if he has a K-9 dog with him? Just because it says K-9 on the car, doesn't mean he has the dog? And he probably doesn't have to tell me if he does or not? Duty to inform is for safety only. Why they react the way they do sometimes is a mystery to me too? If they are as well versed in the law as most of them claim to be, then we wouldn't have all the issues of open carry that we do.
Big Gay Al
New member
I don't get it either. But since they can find out you have a CPL by running your driving license, I do't get why I have to tell them. Seems to me like it's one more way to jack up Joe Civilian, if they are inclined to do so.
It's funny when I go through Indiana, if I'm ever stopped, out of habit, I hand over my CPL, and tell the officer I'm armed. More than one has informed me that I don't need to inform in Indiana, but they thanked me for letting them know, regardless. I've yet to receive a traffic citation since I got my CPL, in spite of the fact that I deserved one several times.
If a cop yells at me for not informing him(her) about the gun I am NOT carrying it says alot about the cop, all bad in my opinion. And when the cop finds out I do have a permit it should make the cop breath easier. However many(not all) cops believe that since they are somehow superior to us ordinary mortals(average citizens) only they should be able to own or carry guns.
Deserteagle
New member
The liberals in our government spread the belief that only the police should have guns, and it only follows that many police will start believing it.
The liberal "intellectuals" think that average Joe doesnt need a gun and shouldnt be trusted with one, and they spread this opinion to the entire country. Much of the population soaks up this opinion and when the police departments hire from the population, there will be a lot of cops who have bought into this crap.
Many of us gun owners tend to be part of the "silent majority", and unfortunately, those anti-gunners are not so silent, and they are working every day to make their beliefs be the prevailing belief in society. They rule the media, they conduct biased research, and they sure as heck like to be vocal about their opinions.
Big Al, you're doing it the right way, in my opinion. It's just common sense. That officer wants to go home safely at the end of his/her shift. There are enough gangbangers as it is that are racking, and the cop has to find out the hard way. The least we can do is make it as easy as possible on the cop. I don't "spill my guts " to cops, but I don't clam up either. I handle exchanges with them the same way they handle it with me. If they want to be a wiseguy, they will get nothing in return from me but flack. I respect police officers, but I am NOT intimidated by them. I have had experiences with very good ones, and unfortunately, I have bad experiences with some REAL lazy ones....especially female LEO's.
During the UT training class last March, our UT CWP instructor told us that a) there was no duty to inform in AL and b) he didn't recommend informing the officer unless asked or asked to step out of the vehicle. So not all CWP instructors advise informing upon a simple traffic stop.
That's my policy also. Although in my case, talk is cheap since I don't get pulled over very often; about once every 5 years or so (watch me get a ticket on the way home today.....).
Big Gay Al
New member
I've only encountered 2 female LEOs in my travels, and in both cases the were friendly ones. The first was a DNR officer, who was training a rookie. I encountered them at a DNR range, when they stopped by just to see who was there shooting, in the AM. They asked me what time I started, I told them, it was 9:05AM by my watch when I started. They had a complaint, someone was there before 9:00AM (the posted starting time), I informed them there was a pickup that left as I was coming in. I gave all the details I could recall.
They thanked me, and the female DNR cop asked me about the Bulgarian Makarov I was OCing at the time. (The rookie hadn't even noticed.) Basically, she asked how I liked it, if it shot well, was it Russian, East German, Chinese or Bulgarian. (I had provided all my ID documents when they first arrived, so she knew I was legal to OC into and out of my vehicle, as well as while in it) I think we chatted about the various types for about 5 minutes. She has an East German Mak, and it is sometimes her off duty backup. :smile: They went on about their business, and I went about mine.
The 2nd time, I was stopped by an East Lansing motorcycle cop, who turned out to be female. I was on my way to work, so I was in my security uniform. She stopped me because I had a headlight out (that I didn't know of, so it must have happened recently to my leaving home). She was very professional, and polite. And I didn't even get a fix it ticket. She just advised me to get it fixed ASAP, so no one else stops me. :smile:
I don't know if I'm just lucky, or maybe the LEOs around here have had more training in how to handle legal packers, but I've yet to run into a bad situation with any LEO while carrying, here in Michigan.
BC1
,
In NY there is no requirement to notifiy LE. I advise students not to say anything unless asked.
