The Open Carry Argument

[Big Gay Al]

In NY there is no requirement to notifiy LE. I advise students not to say anything unless asked.

What about NYC?

Personally, I find it rather silly that NYC can issue a permit that the rest of the state will recognize, but the state permit is not recognized in NYC. Maybe NYC should just become it's own state?

 

[Islander]

You do it your way, and I'll do it my way. Whether or not it is written in the law, it is implied that you let the officer know you are carrying. And why else would you need to show your permit, IF, you are not carrying and had no gun in the car? Besides, when the officer sees that gun permit, one of the first questions he's going to ask is ""Are you carrying now?" or "Where is the gun?" . Just makes sense to tell the LEO right off the bat.

Oh, and don't post anymore statements saying "in S.C. we....." or "most of us in S,C,..." . I am in S.C. too and don't live too far from you(less than 3 miles), and I can definitely say that YOU aren't the spokesman for South Carolinian Gun owners. And we DON'T walk around with guns on our hips to go shooting, if we are getting out of the vehicle...YOU MAY, but then again, that's exactly what I'd expect of you. That act only invites unwanted attention from citizens and LEO's. We are NOT an OPEN CARRY State...so it is VERY STRANGE to see someone walking around with a firearm on their hip, with no ID that says "police".

GOV,

You wrote, "Oh, and don't post...blah, blah, blah"??? What? Are you serious? To quote you, "You do it your way, and I'll do it my way."

FACT: MANY of us do open carry going to/from hunting, fishing, and shooting. Again, this is a simple statement of fact. Again, it is absolutely legal. We ARE an open carry state in the context I stated, and I know of not one single person that has ever even been questioned by police for this. In the more rural areas of OUR state, folks will open carry at the gas station or in Walmart when getting bait for fishing. I don't do this, and I don't recommend it. But I mention it to stress that of the people I know who do this, not one has EVER been stopped or questioned by police.

Regarding whether or not you have to inform the officer that you are carrying, I was clarifying the law, since this site is read by so many people. I did not comment on what I would do or what anyone else SHOULD do, only the law. Since I haven't interviewed the writer(s) of the law, I don't know their intent. Maybe they wrote it that way (permit holder only required to show permit) to protect the privacy of the permit holder (not required to reveal how many, what type, or location of concealed weapons). Unlike you, I'm not making any assumptions in what I wrote. I do agree it is common courtesy to let the officer know where your weapon is, but again, I was clarifying the law AS WRITTEN.

It is unclear to me what you meant about the gun being "in the car", so I'll clarify that one as well for our readers. If you have a pistol in your console or glove, loaded or not, you have absolutely no obligation to mention it to police. You are not concealed carrying.

You may be less than 3 miles from me geographically, but we're worlds apart on many issues. This is a great forum to express and explore our differences. In the future, if you feel like censoring my speech, at least properly quote me.

 

[BC1]

What about NYC?

Personally, I find it rather silly that NYC can issue a permit that the rest of the state will recognize, but the state permit is not recognized in NYC. Maybe NYC should just become it's own state?

NYC permits are not recognized state-wide. They are good only in NYC. Permits granted at the state level are not valid in NYC. That city is an entirely different country from upstate. They have separated from the state on many areas of the law. Many in the upstate region wish NYC would secede from the state. This is a city of foreigners where a large percentage of the population doesn't even speak English. Foreigners don't like guns. They come from countries where peiple can't own a gun. They represent a voting block that comprises nearly 40% of the state vote and thus keep setting the rules for the entire state.

 

[Big Gay Al]

NYC permits are not recognized state-wide. They are good only in NYC. Permits granted at the state level are not valid in NYC. That city is an entirely different country from upstate. They have separated from the state on many areas of the law. Many in the upstate region wish NYC would secede from the state. This is a city of foreigners where a large percentage of the population doesn't even speak English. Foreigners don't like guns. They come from countries where peiple can't own a gun. They represent a voting block that comprises nearly 40% of the state vote and thus keep setting the rules for the entire state.

Sheesh, based on that last sentence alone, if I lived in the state, but not the city, I'd push for kicking NYC out of the state, either make them go on their own, or give them to New Jersey. Of course, that might start a war between NJ and NY. :biggrin:

 

[NavyLCDR]

That officer wants to go home safely at the end of his/her shift.

If I don't attempt to shoot the officer with my gun, I have done nothing to hinder their going home safely at the end of his/her shift, regardless of whther or not I tell them about my gun or permit, and regardless of whether or not they find out about my gun or permit.

The biggest action I can take to help ensure the safetly of the officer is to pull over in the safest possible place I can find, farthest away from busy traffic, which is exactly what I have done when stopped.

Now THAT seems to be common sense to me.

 

[Firefighterchen]

If it walks like a duck.............

Uh, you're wrong about the 99% don't ride Harleys too. I ride a Harley, and have for years, and I carry a Smith& Wesson.

So you are saying 99% of gun owners ride harley's and carry s&w? I don't know how big you are...but you can't possibly comprise of 99% of the gun owners.

And how will you be dressed for this event? Will all of you ride up on your Harleys, dressed in black leather jackets and chaps, with Studded Leather holster belts holding S&W 357 magnums? What image do YOU think that projects to the innocent public? In a city/county park where families are walking their dogs and children.

So you are a self proclaimed Harley rider that carries a S&w. If this is the image you do not find acceptable, why do you represent yourself this way?

And the "meet & greets" aren't what you say they are either. They are "staged" events to make a political point. Just like Occupy Wall Streeters. Heck, at least have the guts to say what you're doing. I've seen them on TV and in gun Magazines, and I didn't like them, so I'm positive it didn't present well to our opponents.

Here are a neat find the differences pictures I promised you.

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[JerryMac]

Thanks for the time to write this, as it was some very good reading. Everyone has their own reasons for what they do and why they do it, I will nto knock anyone for open carry, as I do this from time to time, escpecially when around home, and our little town, pop about 150ish.. however I also CC quite often when going to the '' big city ;;. course that is my preferance. I prefer to be the only one konwing I have a gun untill it is time for someone to not know I have a gun.

 

[ESD]

Yeah, the NYC, Chicago, other no gun cities? Total BS! They got a gun problem that doesn't have anything to do with the legal carry of law abiding citizens? Just like the "NO GUNS" signs...only the criminals can carry there? Idiots! They got more cops then any other cities in the US, and they still can't protect me from the gun thug if I'm not permitted to carry there. I'd be dead before they got there?

If they did some research, they'd find that cities, counties, and other states are reporting declines in the number of violent crimes involving firearms throughout the U.S. More guns doesn't = more crime? More guns mean less crime, because the criminals don't always know who's carrying a gun to protect themselves.

It's funny that we arm our military to the teeth to protect that soldier? Ever heard anyone say, "hey, this guy doesn't need that side arm...just give him a couple grenades instead." No you don't! He gets his side arm, his grenades, his sniper rifle, his grenade launcher, etc....Why? Because we want him to be able to protect himself from someone trying to kill him. But we can't do that in NYC, Chicago, D.C.? Makes perfect sense to me? How about you?

 

[golddigger14s]

It's funny that we arm our military to the teeth to protect that soldier? Ever heard anyone say, "hey, this guy doesn't need that side arm...just give him a couple grenades instead." No you don't! He gets his side arm, his grenades, his sniper rifle, his grenade launcher, etc....Why? Because we want him to be able to protect himself from someone trying to kill him. But we can't do that in NYC, Chicago, D.C.? Makes perfect sense to me? How about you?

Sorry if it's been mentioned before, but I didn'nt feel like reading through 35 pages.
21 years in the Army, but we can't carry on post CC or OC in or out of uniform (unless you are a whacked out terrorist). Double face palm. I can carry locked and loaded at my bank, but most of the time when deployed I have more restrictions on how I carry? Note: this statement is made in WA state. Frustrating.

 

[NavyLCDR]

And don't forget, in the military you cannot carry while in uniform off base, either...

 

[ESD]

Sorry if it's been mentioned before, but I didn'nt feel like reading through 35 pages.
21 years in the Army, but we can't carry on post CC or OC in or out of uniform (unless you are a whacked out terrorist). Double face palm. I can carry locked and loaded at my bank, but most of the time when deployed I have more restrictions on how I carry? Note: this statement is made in WA state. Frustrating.

Yeah, I was stationed out in WA. State 84'-early 85'. Ft. Lewis, 277th Armor Batt. Apparently they don't call it that anymore? I think it's called something else under Armored Cavalry? The 33rd or something, I'm not sure?

We've covered quite alot of different issues under this topic, but you're point is yet another good one? What is our country coming too?

 

[chieftmc]

I'm glad to be in Indiana.....no restrictions on how you would like to carry !!! I mostly OC, but when warranted, I do CC.

America.....love it or leave it !!!

 

[gonzogeezer]

Wondering if restrictions on service members might have something to do with some misguided PC worries about perception of armed military moving among the civilian population? Way I see it, you guys are better trained than most of us, I'd welcome you out here when you're off duty. And anyway, you didn't give up your citizenship when you took the oath, right?

Thanks to all of you for your service.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Wondering if restrictions on service members might have something to do with some misguided PC worries about perception of armed military moving among the civilian population? Way I see it, you guys are better trained than most of us, I'd welcome you out here when you're off duty. And anyway, you didn't give up your citizenship when you took the oath, right?

Thanks to all of you for your service.

Instances like the Kent State shooting certainly have a part in it. And the military is not here for law enforcement (except in extreme circumstances, and then we are supposed to be deployed to protect the citizens, not do government work like confiscating firearms). So I think it is the image of armed and uniformed military personnel walking around and the immediate associations with a police state that the government wants to avoid. And the government does not want liability if a uniformed military member does shoot someone, even in self defense. I think a fair compromise would be for the government to allow us to wear concealed firearms while in uniform, I would have no real problem with not being able to open carry in uniform, but I don't like not being able to wear any gun in uniform that isn't issued for official duty.

The prohibition on carrying firearms in uniform is actually the uniform regulations, although, I suppose a female could carry a gun in her purse off base, and males could carry a gun in a backpack off base, so long as the purse and/or backpack was carried according to uniform regulations - not that that would be of much value in a self-defense situation.

 

[Samuel]

Does anyone have any more information on this story? I can't find anything else on this story.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Does anyone have any more information on this story? I can't find anything else on this story.

The only info we have is that it was an armed robbery. If you look at that area's crime statistics, armed robberies are fairly common there. There is no evidence to suggest that his openly carried firearm had anything to do with it. He could have just as easily been walking down the street with no firearm and still been robbed by a criminal with a gun. At the time, in Wisconsin where this happened, there was no lawful ability to carry concealed. So it was either a choice of open carry or not at all.

 

[jerry1335]

Here in Georgia OC is on the raise. I Now see up to 3 people carrying on any day. What I find strange is what they are carrying. I understand 38's nines and 45s. But what is the point of a 25. For me , that would be CC only.

 

[Samuel]

The only info we have is that it was an armed robbery. If you look at that area's crime statistics, armed robberies are fairly common there. There is no evidence to suggest that his openly carried firearm had anything to do with it. He could have just as easily been walking down the street with no firearm and still been robbed by a criminal with a gun. At the time, in Wisconsin where this happened, there was no lawful ability to carry concealed. So it was either a choice of open carry or not at all.

I'm not debating whether or not open carry is a good idea. I'm just wanting to know if they caught the suspect or not, or recovered the gun? If anyone has any update please let me know.

 

[shermr]

I get tired of the argument over open and concealed carry fairly quickly. I many states open carry will get you nothing but harassment or arrest because it is either not legal or not tolerated. If you don't wish to spend time making your point in the back of a squad car you open carry only where open carry is a common practice. Concealed carry or open carry in the most accepted manner will go a long way toward personal protection, meeting legal mandates, and causing less friction from law enforcement and the public.

 

[Firefighterchen]

I get tired of the argument over open and concealed carry fairly quickly. I many states open carry will get you nothing but harassment or arrest because it is either not legal or not tolerated. If you don't wish to spend time making your point in the back of a squad car you open carry only where open carry is a common practice. Concealed carry or open carry in the most accepted manner will go a long way toward personal protection, meeting legal mandates, and causing less friction from law enforcement and the public.

If you are or get tired of OC vs CC, why are you posting in "The Open Carry Argument" thread? I ask because this debate has been going on for a long time, and I do not see it ending anytime soon. Even if all of us move on, the next generation will undoubtedly keep it going either here or in another thread.

I agree in many states it will bring harassment more so than other states. This map shows the 99 most deadly cities. (I know I put 100 when I made the picture, but after rereading the list, there is a missing number). I would agree with you that open carry will have a harder time in the Eastern side of the US. I base that off of how others have posted in this OC vs CC debate and where I believe they are located, related to the map.

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What I don't agree with, is "nothing" but harassment. There is a lot more to OC than getting harassed. That is a part, but being a gun owner you will get harassed as well. Even in the most unfriendly OC states where it is legal, there is a lot more to OC than just harassment.

Let me ask you this. If open carry is legal, and the police are making law abiding citizens spend time in the back of a squad car, where is the problem? Open carrying? Or the police?