Tell a LEO you have a ccw


I haven't discussed this with the WSP yet, but I have put in calls to the city police of my town and of Spokane, WA along with my local county S.O. and they all said without hesitation "Yes, we prefer to be told upon initial contact that you are licensed and armed." Just my .02
 

Grumpy

New member
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

Each state's laws are specific to that state. All arguments aside, ignorance of the law is still no excuse. If you have a philosophical score to settle, it is best not to begin with a LEO who has stopped you for a traffic violation.
 
LeavingMass,

This thread has caused much confusion based on our personal feelings about notifying an officer. In the future please make sure you are informed of the proper ARKANSAS laws before posting on the ARKANSAS Forum.

I just searched through the forums on Arkansas CCA's website and have found the correct answer to the situation that was brought up at the beginning of this post. For all of those reading out there, Arkansas Concealed Carry Association works very closely with the Arkansas State Police and the Arkansas General Assembly on increasing the rights of CHL holders in the state.

Just for clarification on the actual law. Here is a post from the Grant Exton, Executive Director of the Arkansas Concealed Carry Association.

Link Removed


IF State A, B, C , and D says, WHILE CARRYING you MUST inform a LE , then by all means, OBEY THE LAW and Tell the LEO

MY arguments is if states M, N, O and P says NOT REQUIRED TO INFORM, then DON'T, you are only encouraging future rights being more limited.

A COP / LEO job is to enforce the LAW, not to instill his own agenda

The argument of this story was (from post #1 )
I have just talked with a good friend in Tenn. about carrying. He told me that a fellow he works with got stopped by a policeman and when he came back to speak with the driver the policeman jumped all over the driver for not informing him that he had a carry permit. Being on his way to work he did not have his gun with him because he can't have a gun on company property. I guess the law is you have to inform the police you have a carry permit even if you are not carrying. I was wandering if it is the same here in Arkansas

And I'll make myself more clear, THE COP IS UNINFORMED, and was ignorant for getting heated as stated in the first post.

In your other topic you posted a response and link to Link Removed

well you should have read the entire posts from the topic. here is some of the posts

Link Removed
Re: Poll: How do the police feel about CHL in your area?
Posted by: George Cabaniss (IP Logged)
Date: September 04, 2007 09:34AM

I am a Police Sergeant and I have taught the legal section of the CHL training for a decade. I find most police officers are almost totally ignorant of the Concealed Carry Law. This is a potentially dangerous situation. Many are "gun folks" and understand that if you have a license, someone thinks you are safe to carry it. Some officers however ascribe to the anti-gun sentiment promulgated by the national media and much of the federal law enforcement bureaucracy that guns are inherently evil and person who own/carry guns are dangerous nuts. I believe better training is the answer to much of this. We spend hours in class annually being taught to respect the rights of others (racial profiling, sexual harassment, etc). I think respecting the gun rights of others should be just as important. It would also help if the state police would update their own website information. The copy of the law they provide is out of date and the instructions to law enforcement still refers to "open containers" which is no longer the law. Also, I think it is vitally important that instructors tell learners to advise law enforcement of their CHL whenever they are asked for id, BEFORE they reach for their wallets. You did the best thing you could do when faced with the uninformed but well intentioned officer.
Sorry for my long diatribe.


Link Removed

Re: Poll: How do the police feel about CHL in your area?
Posted by: Grant Exton (IP Logged)
Date: September 07, 2007 02:57PM

Act 664 was the legislation that addressed the requirement to present your CHL license any time ID was requested by law enforcement. Upon current review of Act 664, it is not in there.

I was at the final legislative meeting reviewing this act before it was sent to committee, and I was at the committee hearing addressing and passing the act...it was in there at that time. From the committee to the House and Senate and the final legislative administrator who drafted the final Act 664, it was left out...this is unfortunately


It is my very strong suggestion that CHL instructors teach the law, but highly encourage the presentation of your CHL anytime ID is requested by any AR law enforcement. If an ASP officer pulls you over, he will be expecting this because it was supposed to have changed in the last legislative session. It will only make a licesees life much easier if he presents right up front, especially with the ASP.

Grant Exton
ARCCA, Executive Director

Link Removed
Re: Poll: How do the police feel about CHL in your area?
Posted by: Grant Exton (IP Logged)
Date: September 10, 2007 09:34AM

One of the most important aspects of this forum is to ensure the information conveyed is accurate to the greatest extent possible....without that the site loses it's legitimacy.

Concerning the posting by budreaux39 regarding the ASP's intended scraping of the provision to show your CHL license, that information was wrong.

Lisa Sanders is in the licensing section and was not involved in the representation of the ASP to the legislature. That position was reserved for Col. Dozier and staff. It was the intent of the ASP to include this provision, as well as the intent of the representatives who proposed the bill. It was not included due to oversight. I was at the hearings, I was at the vote, and I spoke with the leaership when we found out it was not included this past week.

Now whether you agree with the provision or not is of legitimate debate, as was put forth by budreaux39. I personally disagree with his concern, but that's what this Forum is about.

Grant Exton
ARCCA, Executive Director

Now to quote the LAW

Linked DIRECTLY from the Arkansas STATES LEGISLATIVE Site
Link Removed
5-73-315. Possession of license — Identification of licensee.

(a) Any licensee possessing a valid license issued pursuant to this subchapter may carry a concealed handgun.

(b) The licensee shall:

(1) Carry the license, together with valid identification, at any time when the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun; and

(2) Display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer.

History. Acts 1995, No. 411, § 2; 1995, No. 419, § 2; 2007, No. 827, § 102.

Notice is states WHEN he or she IS CARRYING ?

And EVERY States laws I've read, and that requires you to inform the officer, SPECIFICALLY states WHILE CARRYING, NONE will be so stupid as to state you should carry your permit for weapons when NOT CARRYING, just like you don't have to carry your DRIVERS LICENSE if you are NOT DRIVING, of course one MAY WALK with a drivers license to be used FOR IDENTIFICATION PURPOSE, but a State ID will suffice, WHEN WALKING.

I've yet to see a state require, in order to get a CC permit you MUST have a DRIVERS LICENSE.

Hope that clears it up for you ............. ?
 

tattedupboy

Thank God I'm alive!
Fortunately, I live in a state in which I don't need to inform. I've had two LEO encounters and have never once volunteered the fact that I was carrying. On the other hand, if I were ordered out of the car and about to get searched, then I would volunteer it.
 

danhill

USARetVNVet
Tell a LEO you have a CCW

I now live in Tennessee, I lived in Florida for 22 years until I moved here 2 years ago, and I always have my Driver's License and my Carry Permit together in my wallet, so if I'm stopped for any reason and asked to show my Driver's License, the LEO will also be able to see my Carry Permit at the same time. Then, I can take out my DL if asked and can also inform the LEO whether I'm carrying or not if asked. If I'm just carrying in the glove box and the LEO wants to see my vehicle registration, which is also kept there, I will tell them that I have a weapon in there as well. In some states that is the law, but in every case it is simply common sense. The last thing anyone should do is open a glove box with a weapon in it without telling the LEO about it first.
 

duckcallinfool

New member
Leavingmass,

I agree, I read the rest of the posts and found the same info.

However, I must make my decisions based on the two encounters I have had with LEO's while carrying. Whenever I have an encounter with an officer, I treat them with due respect. No matter if they are older or younger than I. I have had two encounters which went well for me. My wife was stopped at a road block on her way through a disaster area recently on the way to her parents. We don't know why they held up the vehicle in front of her and searched the person's car. However, when my wife pulled up to the officer and presented both DL and CHL and told the officer where she was heading, she was immediatly sent on her way.

That said, I am done with this arguement, good luck with your next encounter.

To all those ARKANSANS out there, I apologize if I led you astray. I encourage each of you to join the Arkansas Concealed Carry Association and support the men and women working with the ASP and Arkansas State Legislature to increase our rights in the great State of Arkansas. These are the people who can give you the correct info concerning your rights and responsibilities as a CHL holder, here in Arkansas.
 

toreskha

Titles are un-American.
As a general rule, you're better off letting them know. Be calm, polite, respectful and don't give them a reason to get angry.

People seem to think that they can get sympathy from LEOs by explaining that they're an RO, a former LEO, their brother is a LEO, or explaining that they're not just some guy with a gun - they own many and are responsible range patrons, etc, ad nauseum. That type of "but aren't I an exception?" bit usually just annoys anyone who has to deal with people who are trying to act like they know something about what that person is doing.

Once in a while you might run across the oddball cop who is a sadistic maniac or a fervent anti. Chances are, you'll have problems with them anyway. Don't endanger your chances with the majority of good cops by trying to accommodate the few bad ones.
 

Boomboy007

New member
Please, please listen to Ishi, Folks.

It makes me feel good to know that there are still some patriots out there who understand what FREEDOM and LIBERTY mean. We should all listen ti Ishi. Understand that, while law enforcement is a noble cause, law enforcement officers are a wildly varied and imperfect lot.

While most of us recognize that our second amendment rights are important elements of our defense against nebulous entities we call "bad guys", for me the most important reason for the existence of our second amendment is for protection against our government. EVERY government is corrupt. EVERY group of power wielders believe that they know better than the people what is good for the people. LEO's are agents for the government. They are answerable to the government, not to the people. Therefore, every scrap of freedom that we have is precious and should be fought for and preserved.

The difference between our democracy, the communist "utopia" of the USSR and China, and the fascist state of the Nazi's "reich" are measurable in extremely small degrees. In fact, we are only ten degrees from the others, those ten degrees also known as the "Bill of Rights".

I found a link to an informative youtube clip. While I found it interesting in its entirety, you could skip forward to about 8 minutes 20 seconds to see the way WE ALL should handle a traffic stop.

YouTube - BUSTED: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters
 

ecocks

New member
I always inform any LEO I have LE contact with that I am carrying. That would include approaching an officer to make a report, a traffic stop, a knock on the door or being approached by an officer in anything other than an extremely casual, informal capacity (like a Hiya' at the Circle K coffee counter).

IMO, it is common courtesy granted to a LEO.
 

Bohica1998

New member
I have found (through personal experience) that your attitude has more to do with how you are treated by a LEO more than anything else.

I got pulled over by a State Trooper late one night. I had just gotten off work and was headed home. When his blues went on, I just pulled over to the shoulder. He didn't even have to chase me down, lol! I turned on the interior lights, rolled the window down, and kept my hands where he could see them.

He asked for my drivers license, etc. I passed all that over as well as my permit. The first thing he says is "I don't need that" and hands me back the permit. He runs my license and it comes back valid, as well as them telling him I had a permit to carry. He comes back and asks if I have a permit. I said yes and handed it to him again. He asked if I was carrying at that time. I said no and explained that I am not allowed to carry at work.

And that was it as far as that part of the stop went.

He had me on radar going 10 mph over the speed limit. I told him I would have to take his word for it because it was late and I was just trying to get home and had not been watching my speedometer. THAT was what made him kind of do a double take. I guess he was expecting me to deny it or something.

He finally let me go with a written warning - no ticket (even though he had me dead to rights), and told me to keep a better eye on my speedometer from now on.

If I had not shown him my permit the first time he came up to the car, or had shown an attitude, it might have gone a lot differently.
 

Boomboy007

New member
what, What, WHAT?!?!?

I always inform any LEO I have LE contact with that I am carrying. That would include approaching an officer to make a report, a traffic stop, a knock on the door or being approached by an officer in anything other than an extremely casual, informal capacity (like a Hiya' at the Circle K coffee counter).

IMO, it is common courtesy granted to a LEO.

Well, no one can disparage your courtesy (I'm sure that your Mom is proud, and I'm not making a joke), but I really have to question your thought process regarding this issue. If you saw a mugging or a purse snatching, which of the following ways would be more effective in obtaining law enforcement response:

1. Excuse me, Officer. I just witnessed a purse snatching. The victim doesn't appear injured. The assailant was a (fit favorite description here) and he took off in an easterly direction on Main Street. It happened about thirty seconds ago.

2. Excuse me, Officer. Before I say anything, please allow me to inform you that I have a concealed carry permit, and I am currently armed. Pardon? Yes, I currently have a pistol on my person. What's that? Oh, yes, it is in an in-waistband holster at four o'clock on my right hand side. Pardon? You want to disarm me before we speak? Sure, but I should tell you..... Oh, okay, against that wall? Okay. (officer pats you down, and disarms you) Just curious, but why do you need to disarm me? For my safety and for yours? Well.... okay. Anyway, I just..... ummm, yes, I do have some identification. Yeah, my license and permit are here in my wallet, but..... Okay, here you go. (officer calls in your information) What was my question? Oh, yeah! I just witnessed a purse snatching. The victim doesn't appear injured. The assailant was a (fit favorite description here) and he took off in an easterly direction on Main Street. It happened about, well, I guess about seven or eight minutes ago.

Neither one of the above situations involve any wrongdoing by you or the officer involved, but the second option was considerably less efficient.

As for a knock on your door, that is your private property. I am not sure about your state, but here in Connecticut if the police knock on my door without me calling and requesting their response, they will be met with me and Mr. Steyr on my hip. In fact, without a warrant, they won't even get to come inside. All the while being respectful, of course. Imagine this clip, plus Mr. Steyr on the Hip (only IF it is legal in your location):

YouTube - How do I keep police from entering my home?
 

ecocks

New member
Well, no one can disparage your courtesy (I'm sure that your Mom is proud, and I'm not making a joke), but I really have to question your thought process regarding this issue. If you saw a mugging or a purse snatching, which of the following ways would be more effective in obtaining law enforcement response:

1. Excuse me, Officer. I just witnessed a purse snatching. The victim doesn't appear injured. The assailant was a (fit favorite description here) and he took off in an easterly direction on Main Street. It happened about thirty seconds ago.

2. Excuse me, Officer. Before I say anything, please allow me to inform you that I have a concealed carry permit, and I am currently armed. Pardon? Yes, I currently have a pistol on my person. What's that? Oh, yes, it is in an in-waistband holster at four o'clock on my right hand side. Pardon? You want to disarm me before we speak? Sure, but I should tell you..... Oh, okay, against that wall? Okay. (officer pats you down, and disarms you) Just curious, but why do you need to disarm me? For my safety and for yours? Well.... okay. Anyway, I just..... ummm, yes, I do have some identification. Yeah, my license and permit are here in my wallet, but..... Okay, here you go. (officer calls in your information) What was my question? Oh, yeah! I just witnessed a purse snatching. The victim doesn't appear injured. The assailant was a (fit favorite description here) and he took off in an easterly direction on Main Street. It happened about, well, I guess about seven or eight minutes ago.

Neither one of the above situations involve any wrongdoing by you or the officer involved, but the second option was considerably less efficient.

As for a knock on your door, that is your private property. I am not sure about your state, but here in Connecticut if the police knock on my door without me calling and requesting their response, they will be met with me and Mr. Steyr on my hip. In fact, without a warrant, they won't even get to come inside. All the while being respectful, of course. Imagine this clip, plus Mr. Steyr on the Hip (only IF it is legal in your location):

YouTube - How do I keep police from entering my home?

My mother doesn't really enter into this situation.

With regard to your theoretical proposition on witnessing the mugging, if the officer had a chance to catch the guy I would opt for number one, saving the disclosure for his/her eventual return to determine my name and witness report. A simple report as a witness where the crime had occurred oreviously and the crime report was being assembled would be the situation I had in mind when I responded. Oddly, I have never discussed my holster or its location with a police officer nor have I been disarmed either time I have disclosed. A simple I am carrying a concealed weapon and have my permit if you wish to see it sufficed both times. Several people keep making reference to this type of officer response, but it hasn't happened to me that way yet. Guess it has to do with the individual's general demeanor, the officer's mood and the adrenalin pumping in a particular situation.

I cannot imagine a situation where I would meet an officer at my door and deny them admission if they asked politely. I usually had my holster on when indoors at home but covered when answering the door. I would choose to inform the officer as soon as they finished their introduction as to why they were at my door. Are you worried that the officers smell marijuana from inside your home? Do you need time to dispose of some illegal substances? Not sure why I would ever want to school myself on keeping police from searching my home.

To each their own though.
 
....I cannot imagine a situation where I would meet an officer at my door and deny them admission if they asked politely. I usually had my holster on when indoors at home but covered when answering the door. I would choose to inform the officer as soon as they finished their introduction as to why they were at my door. Are you worried that the officers smell marijuana from inside your home? Do you need time to dispose of some illegal substances? Not sure why I would ever want to school myself on keeping police from searching my home......

My attorney has advised me that if any LEO wants to enter my home uninvited, that it would be wise for me to have an attorney present and the officers have either probable cause or a search warrant. Any LEO who knows what they're doing can understand that having the proper paperwork protects them as well as myself. The problem with LEO searching a house with my consent against the advice of my attorney is that they may find something that implicates me in a crime. Regardless of if I have "nothing to hide" or not, all kinds of "bad" can come out of the search. By asking the police to obtain a warrant, they are forced to complete the paperwork and review the evidence that they have. In the process, they may discover that another person is a more viable suspect.

As you said earlier, "to each his own". IANAL, so I'll take the advice of the attorneys who I have on retainer. :wink:



gf
 

ecocks

New member
Exactly. I just cannot come up with a scenario where I would care. If you can, then by all means do what your lawyer told you. I have never even had occasion to think about discussing this with a lawyer.
 

Willard Of Oz

New member
In Michigan...




[FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=+0]Responsibilities of Individuals With a CCW License:[/SIZE] [/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]An individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol who is stopped by a police officer (traffic stop or otherwise) while in possession of a pistol shall immediately disclose to the police officer that he or she is carrying a concealed pistol either on their person or in their motor vehicle.[/FONT]

  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Failure to disclose this information to a police officer carries the following penalties:[/FONT]

  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]First offense = State Civil Infraction - $500 fine and 6-month CCW license suspension.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Second offense = State Civil Infraction - $1000 fine and CCW license revocation. [/FONT]
Link Removed
 

llama

New member
My basic point in writing is to emphasize the consistent element in all routine Civ/Cop relations should start with "whatever you do, be clear, be courteous, and be considerate". If you have to go someplace else with it after that kind of start, so be it. How many ways can one say "we all have baggage, and some days it is heavier than others". Don't be a jerk on either side of the window!!
 

ecocks

New member
Agreed. The jerks looking for confrontation or debate on this issue (as you say either side of the window) cause a great deal of the perceived problem. Those officers who feel compelled to give a lecture on the problems you caused exercising your right are in the same bucket with the guy or gal who feels required to make a point of what they do or don't have to do!

Call it the golden rule or what goes around, comes around mentality, it seems to work more often than not.
 

Boomboy007

New member
Well, gee whiz, guys....

I am only drawing on three years of metropolitan police force experience here, but I must again state that the preservation of one's rights take precedence over hurt feelings on the part of a police officer. I realize that, in some states, the law requires LEO notification. In those states, inform!

Please watch this video. It will explain much more concisely than I am able.

YouTube - Dont Talk to Police
 
Just heard this in my CCW class. You DO NOT HAVE TO identify if you are not carrying, HOWEVER, think about this from the LEO's perspective... He walks up to the car, you hand him the license & registration, then he goes back to the car and finds out that you have a permit to carry... the next approach will be slow, cautious and with his hand on his gun. LEOs just want to get home to their wife & kids. Make it easy on them and volunteer the info and tell them if you are or aren't carrying. No big deal. They aren't working directly for Obama... yet.

Who knows, they might appreciate the gesture so much that you get by with a warning.
 
The instructor of my class a month ago told me the same thing. Can't hurt to do it and it might well get you a bit of a reprieve from the officer giving you a ticket. They'll find out about the license anyhow, as you mentioned. The instructor said he thinks it got him out of two tickets.

Even tho you're not required to tell them should you not be carrying, it's still not going to hurt a thing if you were to do so.

.
 

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