Tell a LEO you have a ccw

[Gordon Shumway]

CCW law is important to us. WE EXPECT the Arkansas State Troopers and locals to know the gun law. Unfortunately that is not always the case. They often are having a bad day and taking it out on us.

Troopers do hunt for things to write up. 30 Nov 10 last day of the month!!!!
I was stopped for tinted windows. (They are legal, been checked several times). Showed my CCW. Interrogation failed. Finally wrote me a blue warning for High Beam Headlight inoperative.... at 2 pm on a bright day.

He checked my car over and even stood in front of the car and had me flash my lights up and down until he found something.

You remember the scorpion and the frog?

You know what? If you write to the commander in LR, it really pisses off the troopers. I have one that hasn't spoken to me for 7 years. He doesn't harass me any more either. lol

 

[santa]

unless required i will NOT disclose that i am carrying. at the same time i will be polite but volunteer nothing. i feel the same way about letting a leo in my house. leo are trained to be suspecious of anything. while in my car or in my house i do have certain rights and i do exercise them. here in the small town in eastern washington where i live we have extreamly nosey leo and you can catch them drunk sometimes at one of the bars telling things they have learned to whoever. the leo here give a bad name to the honest leo who are trying to do their job and make a difference for the better.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Not to get off on a tirade here.
Several of the LEOs went to school with my sons, and those future LEOs were dope smoking drug dealers, drunks, and thieves for quite a few years. Now they are driving Crown Vics and bitching about us going 3 mph over the limit while going down hills, etc. When I grew up in yankeeland, the old folks always said that the LEOs were the past criminals because they knew how criminals operate, so they make good cops. Maybe so?

 

[Treo]

Not to get off on a tirade here.
Several of the LEOs went to school with my sons, and those future LEOs were dope smoking drug dealers, drunks, and thieves for quite a few years. Now they are driving Crown Vics and bitching about us going 3 mph over the limit while going down hills, etc. When I grew up in yankeeland, the old folks always said that the LEOs were the past criminals because they knew how criminals operate, so they make good cops. Maybe so?

OK, what does that have to do w/ the topic at hand?

 

[Shootinjh]

I just don't understand why so many people here are getting so defensive about showing an LEO their CHL. He is going to know as soon as he runs your DL anyway.QUOTE]

I was a cop for about ten years and always wanted folks to tell me. I was a nice guy and would thank them for having a tool they might later use to help me if they saw me in a gunfight.

NOW though, I have a different perspective. I think it is the principle of the issue. Governments always tend to disarm their citizens, and when it happens, even temporarily, it strikes a raw spot in a freedom-lovers heart. "Your papers sir!" Most nice cops are OK folks, but they ARE the gummint! Just because another person puts on a blue costume with a pretty star-shaped piece of decoration on the front, s/he is a person and I am a person. I would never initiate force against a peaceful person, but they just have by halting my movement. Now they want to disarm me? I know, I sound like a Voluntaryist! lol leasantry:

 

[Treo]

I'm not realy sure. Maybe since this topic has been beaten to death several times, on this thread as well as others, it is time to mention CCW Badges and whether or not to carry with a round in the chamber.

Don't fergit the Sheeeeeep Dawgzzzz

 

[mrjam2jab]

I guess the law is you have to inform the police you have a carry permit even if you are not carrying..

I have yet to see ANY state that required you to inform if you are NOT armed at the time.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I have yet to see ANY state that required you to inform if you are NOT armed at the time.

Officers KNOW that you have a CCW BEFORE they get to your car. It must be linked to the car tag.
Since that seems to be the case, whether we tell him or not, he knows.

No, I am not a LEO.

And what is this baloney with the black/blue/black tag on the back of the car?
Telling the general public that you have a CCW?
Why would anybody advertise that he has a loaded weapon on board?
That is as dumb as the NRA, etc. stickers.
(I have guns-follow me home and then rob my house when I am gone.)

When I see the BBB tag on a vehicle in a parking lot or gas station, I always go up to them and ask them what kind of gun they are carrying.
You ought to see the varied reactions from the various drivers.
Some pretend they don't know what I am talking about. Especially the women. LOL

 

[Gordon Shumway]

OK, what does that have to do w/ the topic at hand?

The point is Sir:

LEOs will contrive whatever excuse they can to examine and look into your vehicle without a proper search warrant. Many will intimidate and pressure you into waiving your civil rights by cleaverly manipulating the conversation.
It works 95% of the time for them.

The public always loses, because the LEO has manipulated another situation which strengthens his resolve to do it the next time.

The ACLU website has a printable card that explains what to do and exactly what to say when confronted by a LEO.
Memorize it.

 

[DannyBear71]

Are you sure about all that not answering etc. If you are pulled over for a traffic violation it is my understanding that you can be carried to jail, I know it is rare but possible at least here in SC. Also in SC you are required to present your permit if asked for ID and are carrying but the permit is not tied into either the drivers license or vehicle license plates. As for them being tied to vehicle license I think is stupid as the car I drive is in my wife's name and the one she normally drives is in mine. I also drive a state owned car at times.

I imagine that if you are pulled over for a traffic violation and refuse to do or say anything other than hand the officer your license, registration and insurance card it is going to be a long exciting day for you.

In Florida v Boyer the SCOTUS made it clear you need not answer any question put to you by LEO. But any voluntary statements can be used against you in court.

 

[santa]

While there are many honest leo there are also many with a 'I am god" complex. You never know what you are dealing with until its too late. Because of this reason I have chosen to educate myself on ONLY providing what information is required and nothing more. This doesnt mean an "in your face attitude" but a calm resolute statement of your rights. A good leo will understand where you are comming from. A bad leo will get in your face,threaten,bully and Ive even seen a leo throw a temper tantrum. It is unfortuneate that the population of America believes that the 4th and 5th amendments are there to protect the guilty when in reality the amendments were written to protect ALL of us from government abuses of power.

 

[NavyLCDR]

^^^^^^^ +10,000!

 

[Boomboy007]

Just think about this logically....

Provided you are a law abiding citizen with no intention of violent action, how in the world would letting a cop know that you have a gun be beneficial? As a former LEO, I know that if there was a legally carrying individual that I was citing for a traffic violation, telling me that you are armed IS NOT going to make me feel better.

Now, if I ask you to step out of the car, then notification is appreciated, even if not legally required. But, of course, I was one of the constitutionalists that would be more likely to issue a warning instead of a ticket to a fellow "gun person", and then spend 15 minutes admiring your new holster. Trust me, I was the exception, and not the rule!
:no:

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I just reread this entire thread. It is obvious that each of us has feeling, ideas, and viewpoints that might differ.

I have been stopped several times for minor traffic violations in the past 20 years. I have also discussed this gun/ traffic stop situation with several officers in AR. Here is the jist I try to adhere to:

Experience has shown me that a LEO having a bad day is something that I just have to deal with. Be courteous and calm. NO profanity at all. period. No hell or damn. Some of these men are strong Christians and frown upon people who have bad mouths. It is just one more negative against you.

ASP want to be called "Trooper" not officer. I get their name off their tag and use their name several times, Trooper Smith, so I remember it. That also denotes respect for their job.
"Good afternoon Trooper Smith. Is there a problem Sir?"

When you see the blue lights

1) take you foot off the gas
2) click on your turn signal to pull over
3) turn on your dome light so he can see who is in the car. A good habit even in the day time.
Don't make any furtive movements.

4) slow down and find a very wide, safe place to pull off, or if necessary pull slightly up a side road......

so HE won't have to stand with his ass on the highway... OR
so that both of you won't have to stand between cars and get squashed if his gets rear-ended. (They reeeeally appreciate this when I explained it to them= I laughingly say "I saw all those videos on the internet", they usually laugh)

5) keep both hands in sight on the wheel until he gets to the window- don't make a bunch of furtive movements= don't reach for your glove box, or your wallet. Keep your seat belt fastened until he sees it.

6) open the window when asked
7) tell him where your ID is located, Tell LEO that I have a CCW.
Unhook seat belt, get wallet out ID slowly, keep one hand on the wheel.

Experience has shown me that a LEO having a bad day is something that I have to deal with. Be courteous.

8) If he asks, I tell him where the weapon is: right hip/ under the armrest, etc.

9) Hand the LEO your DL, CCW, insurance card= kept together in my wallet.

I have my insurance and registration in a BRIGHT RED envelope, easily found, over my sun visor so I don't have to dig around in the glove box.
Easy to find when nervous or at night.

10) Hand him the ins and registration.

Experience has shown me that a LEO having a bad day is something that I have to deal with. Be courteous.

When one upset red faced ASP demanded that I hand him my weapon, I refused, stating that I was not going to reach for and hand him a loaded weapon.

When more than one Trooper/ county has asked me why I did not stop sooner, I pointed out that I was searching for a safer place to pull off so that HE did not have to stand with his azz on the highway. He liked that idea. It defused the situation. Not many wide places up in the hills.

When another asked me to get out and come to the rear of the car, I suggested that we stand at the side of the road and watch oncoming traffic because we could be splattered. "I've seen those videos on the internet" (he liked that idea) It defused the situation.

I've had some Jack-Boot experiences too. Cited on other threads.

Note that when carrying in any other state, I always offer my CCW with DL. They are honoring OUR CCW, which requires us to show CCW with DL. I comply with AR CCW, regardless of the state of occurance. That's the law.

Thanks for reading. I hope this helps someone.

 

[FN1910]

I just reread this entire thread. It is obvious that each of us has feeling, ideas, and viewpoints that might differ.

I have been stopped several times for minor traffic violations in the past 20 years. I have also discussed this gun/ traffic stop situation with several officers in AR. Here is the jist I try to adhere to:

Experience has shown me that a LEO having a bad day is something that I just have to deal with. Be courteous and calm. NO profanity at all. period. No hell or damn. Some of these men are strong Christians and frown upon people who have bad mouths. It is just one more negative against you.

ASP want to be called "Trooper" not officer. I get their name off their tag and use their name several times, Trooper Smith, so I remember it. That also denotes respect for their job.
"Good afternoon Trooper Smith. Is there a problem Sir?"

When you see the blue lights

1) take you foot off the gas
2) click on your turn signal to pull over
3) turn on your dome light so he can see who is in the car. A good habit even in the day time.
Don't make any furtive movements.

4) slow down and find a very wide, safe place to pull off, or if necessary pull slightly up a side road......

so HE won't have to stand with his ass on the highway... OR
so that both of you won't have to stand between cars and get squashed if his gets rear-ended. (They reeeeally appreciate this when I explained it to them= I laughingly say "I saw all those videos on the internet", they usually laugh)

5) keep both hands in sight on the wheel until he gets to the window- don't make a bunch of furtive movements= don't reach for your glove box, or your wallet. Keep your seat belt fastened until he sees it.

6) open the window when asked
7) tell him where your ID is located, Tell LEO that I have a CCW.
Unhook seat belt, get wallet out ID slowly, keep one hand on the wheel.

Experience has shown me that a LEO having a bad day is something that I have to deal with. Be courteous.

8) If he asks, I tell him where the weapon is: right hip/ under the armrest, etc.

9) Hand the LEO your DL, CCW, insurance card= kept together in my wallet.

I have my insurance and registration in a BRIGHT RED envelope, easily found, over my sun visor so I don't have to dig around in the glove box.
Easy to find when nervous or at night.

10) Hand him the ins and registration.

Experience has shown me that a LEO having a bad day is something that I have to deal with. Be courteous.

When one upset red faced ASP demanded that I hand him my weapon, I refused, stating that I was not going to reach for and hand him a loaded weapon.

When more than one Trooper/ county has asked me why I did not stop sooner, I pointed out that I was searching for a safer place to pull off so that HE did not have to stand with his azz on the highway. He liked that idea. It defused the situation. Not many wide places up in the hills.

When another asked me to get out and come to the rear of the car, I suggested that we stand at the side of the road and watch oncoming traffic because we could be splattered. "I've seen those videos on the internet" (he liked that idea) It defused the situation.

I've had some Jack-Boot experiences too. Cited on other threads.

Note that when carrying in any other state, I always offer my CCW with DL. They are honoring OUR CCW, which requires us to show CCW with DL. I comply with AR CCW, regardless of the state of occurance. That's the law.

Thanks for reading. I hope this helps someone.

Lots of good advice there but I do have to ask, is there some reason why you have so much experience? You seem to get pulled over much more than the average driver.

 

[Felix]

Lots of good advice there but I do have to ask, is there some reason why you have so much experience? You seem to get pulled over much more than the average driver.

Always needs to be someone at the pointy end of the spear so they can pass on those life experiences to the rest of us. :triniti:

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Lots of good advice there but I do have to ask, is there some reason why you have so much experience? You seem to get pulled over much more than the average driver.

Sure, no problem.
I have been pulled over for

window tint several times, another city, = 50 state legal
navy blue Lincoln with dark blue interior, makes inside look even darker
tint ok so ASP > got warning for high beam out at 2 pm in the day time ASP= last day of month

No license plate light, ASP= last day of the month= warning

Dirty license plate= ASP last day of month= warning

Quick wander in the lane reaching for cell phone= last day of the month= ASP verbal

3 mph over the 55 limit, going down hill= last day of the month= ASP warning

no windshield wipers on/ using RainX = last day of the month= ASP warnning

headlight out (county) = was on when I left work, honest, county, verbal only, he went to school with my sons

Speeding, 64 in a 55, and a white pickup was passing my bright red BMW= He was the one speeding, In court ASP said his video recorder malfunctioned. I lose. $90 and $40 for driving school.

Rolling a stop sign (2 mph) at midnight when I was the only car for miles/ red BMW= different city/verbal warning

*** I have several close city and county LEO friends
*** 2 cities, county, and ASP bring their cars to me for service

I asked their opinions, while we were talking guns. LOL

Now the two ASP who stopped me, handcuffed me, towed my car, stole my money, confiscated my 1911, told me that anybody with more than $40 is a drug dealer, and cost me $2,000 to beat them in court, on a hokey "tell it to the judge" GUN charge....... Ya, I was in a bright red German car with tinted windows at 1030 in the morning on the interstate.

I will not make any comment regarding their parentage.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Link Removed
page 5

Must Inform Officer
AR Administrative Rules
CHAPTER 3. License Possession Requirements
Rule 3.2 Contact With Law Enforcement
(b) In any official contact with law enforcement, if the licensee IS in possession of a handgun, when the officer asks the licensee for identification (driver’s license, or personal information, such as name and date of birth), the licensee shall notify the officer that he or she holds a concealed handgun carry license and that he or she has a handgun in his or her possession.

 

[Rickety]

There is no law that compels you to answer a police officer's questions, and they can't arrest you for not answering. Just because they're wearing a badge doesn't give them the power to question you about any particular thing they feel like. "Sir, what did you have for breakfast this morning? What, you don't want to answer? You don't have anything to hide, do you?"

This type of tolerance for police harassment is sometimes prevalent on internet gun forums, where people tend to worship Authority and police power. I find it pretty distasteful.

-ishi

Sure its distasteful. But keeping it friendly and going your way quickly sure beats dealing with a ticked off police officer. You can declare "I know my rights" the entire time the police officer exercises his right to detain you.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Sure its distasteful. But keeping it friendly and going your way quickly sure beats dealing with a ticked off police officer. You can declare "I know my rights" the entire time the police officer exercises his right to detain you.

First, the police have NO right to detain you any more than I have the right to detain you. They have authority. And their authority is limited based upon a reasonable AND articulable suspicion that a crime has been or about to be committed. Is it really worth it to save 1/2 hour of your time to roll over and waive the RIGHTS that you have, in order to allow police to ABUSE their LIMITED authority to detain you and to investigate you when there is no reasonable and articulable suspicion that any crime is being committed? The personal answer for myself is no. If we don't INSIST that the limits of police authority be enforced, than we must rely upon criminals seeking acquittal of crimes they have probably actually committed to fight for limitations of police authority in court.