Showing state ID and Conceal Permit.

[TomC51]

Actually, in MI you are REQUIRED to produce them in any encounter with law enforcement, not just if they request them:



I haven't been stopped by police since getting my CPL, but whether carrying or not I will hand over both my license and CPL and advise them whether I am carrying or not.

I stand corrected. For some reason I was thinking about even not carrying you have to show them I.D. if they ask for it.

 

[kelcarry]

Did not read all replies but this question should not be begging for an answer if you are already CC and have your CCWP. Even common sense is enough not to have to ask. If state requires, you tell him. If state does not you do not have to say anything but, IMO, is a responsible thing to do. If state requires and you are not CC, there is no sense in saying anything. Of course there is the usual of hands clearly visible and no "funny business" in car when LEO approaches.

 

[Big Gay Al]

I stand corrected. For some reason I was thinking about even not carrying you have to show them I.D. if they ask for it.

If you're not driving, but are on foot, you don't have to show them a drivers license. HOWEVER if you are stopped, while driving or on foot, and carrying concealed then you must show your CPL. If you approach them to ask a question, there's no requirement to show ID.

 

[Big Gay Al]

So your 4th Amendment rights mean absolutely nothing to you. Your advice is to tuck your tail between your legs and let the LEO know that you are carrying even if that state doesn't require it? Do you let them know of the baseball bat in the back seat when you are finished with softball practice, do you let them know of the tire iron in the trunk, do you let them know of any and all objects that might be construed as a weapon? Or is it just the firearm that has this special aura about it that makes you tell any LEO that you are carrying? Why would a LEO thank you for letting him know you have one if your state doesn't require you to inform? Or is it just courtesy? Do you extend this same courtesy to everyone you encounter; the McDonald's counter person, the drive through bank teller, the convenience store clerk?

I will never understand why some are such advocates of the 2nd Amendment but will throw the 4th and 5th Amendments out the window because a LEO stopped them for a traffic violation. The firearm you are carrying has nothing to do with the reason why he stopped you, and therefore should not need to be mentioned, nor does it make anyone "safer" by bringing it up. In fact, it could make things much worse. Ask the guy in Lockport, NY who just recently volunteered his firearm up and got charged with having too many rounds in his magazine and he was the passenger!!
Link Removed

Say what you want, about "being polite." Every time I've been stopped by police, I have always disclosed that I am carrying, handed over my CPL along with my DL and proof of insurance. And I've NEVER gotten a ticket since I got my CPL. I like to think it's a combination of factors that contribute to that. Being polite, not being verbally combative, and doing what I can to help the officer feel comfortable with me. Also, I've never had one take my pistol "for his/her safety" either.

Their usual questions regarding my weapon, is what is it, and where is it, followed by "lets just leave it where it is." This is usually followed a few minutes later by, "You're free to go, just slow down a bit or get that headlight/tail light/whatever fixed." And away I go.

The best one, I had one cop ask me why I carried a gun. I told him, "I wanted to carry a cop, but you guys are just too damn heavy." That one got a laugh.

 

[BluesStringer]

Say what you want, about "being polite."

Welcome back.

Every time I've been stopped by police, I have always disclosed that I am carrying, handed over my CPL along with my DL and proof of insurance.

But that's the law in MI, right? Do you even have a legal alternative, whether or not you'd want to use it?

And every time I see a gun-owner/carrier talk about how they always do this or that whenever they are contacted by cops, I have to wonder what the heck that person is doing besides carrying a gun to be forced into all these multiple contacts with them. I've been carrying since I was 23 (I'm 58 now) and I think I could count on one hand the number of contacts I've had (outside of work) with cops, and two of those contacts were last year at DUI checkpoints. One ticket in like '96 or so, and one contact where the cop either "made" me while walking around Seattle Center or misidentified me from the MWAG report that he said he was responding to (it couldn't have been me if it was the report because I hadn't even entered the building that he said the report originated from). I honestly can't think of another official contact where I was the subject of it. I have given a witness statement or two. I have given statements and just briefly shot the breeze with cops during work hours in the several security jobs I've had, but getting pulled over and/or stopped on the street is an exceedingly rare happenstance for me.

So how many contacts where you were the subject of the stop have you had while you were carrying? It would help lend some context to what "every time, always, never, usual questions" etc. actually means in relation to the discussion.

And I've NEVER gotten a ticket since I got my CPL. I like to think it's a combination of factors that contribute to that. Being polite, not being verbally combative, and doing what I can to help the officer feel comfortable with me. Also, I've never had one take my pistol "for his/her safety" either.

I prefer to help the officer be comfortable with protecting and respecting my rights. I couldn't care any less whether or not they're comfortable with me as a person, because that's not their legal bailiwick. If what I am doing (such as carrying a weapon, open or concealed) is legal and I have no statutory obligation to inform them of same, if they give me a ticket or arrest me or get in my face, beat me up or threaten me or whatever, while they would treat someone differently who failed to protect their own rights by actually exercising them, then they are no longer law enforcement officers, they are abusive criminals, and I will treat them just exactly as what they are. That too, is my right, but one which I consciously avoid having to exercise by leading a quiet, law-abiding life.

Their usual questions regarding my weapon, is what is it, and where is it, followed by "lets just leave it where it is." This is usually followed a few minutes later by, "You're free to go, just slow down a bit or get that headlight/tail light/whatever fixed." And away I go.

OK, this describes your "usual" contact. What happens differently in the exceptions to that rule, and what percentage of all these multitudinous contacts with cops do the exceptions represent?

Blues

 

[mspaugy]

When they walk uo to th ecar I give them my dl and my CCp and tell them that even though it is not a requiremnt to inform here that I am carrying and where. One has asked me for my weapon for his safety. He took the weapon to his car and ran the numbers to make sure it wasnt a stolen weapon. He gave it back to me and He told me thanks for letting him know I was carrying and sent me on my way. I think telling him that I was carrying made him forget he had pulled me over for speeding.

The 2nd incident was a sobriety checkpoint: I did as above and the officer told me thanks, asked me a few questions and sent me on my way.

 

[wolf_fire]

Say what you want, about "being polite." Every time I've been stopped by police, I have always disclosed that I am carrying, handed over my CPL along with my DL and proof of insurance. And I've NEVER gotten a ticket since I got my CPL. I like to think it's a combination of factors that contribute to that. Being polite, not being verbally combative, and doing what I can to help the officer feel comfortable with me. Also, I've never had one take my pistol "for his/her safety" either.

Their usual questions regarding my weapon, is what is it, and where is it, followed by "lets just leave it where it is." This is usually followed a few minutes later by, "You're free to go, just slow down a bit or get that headlight/tail light/whatever fixed." And away I go.

The best one, I had one cop ask me why I carried a gun. I told him, "I wanted to carry a cop, but you guys are just too damn heavy." That one got a laugh.

Is there a reason why you equate my unwillingness to share my personal business with a LEO as being impolite? Somehow you are more polite than I am at a traffic stop because you tell him about things he doesn't need nor have reason to know?

First rule of order: Don't do anything that should get you pulled over in the first place.
Second rule of order: Don't say anything that the LEO can and WILL use against you.
Third rule of order: Be polite but never give up any information that is not concerning the order of business at hand.

Funny thing you mention to me that being polite has gotten you out of a ticket every time you've been stopped by police. I have to ask, how many times do you get stopped by police? That's an odd thing for someone to say unless it's been many times. If it's been one or two, maybe you got a lucky break, but to attribute it to showing your "good guy permission slip" is a crock. BTW, I am with our Sheriff's Reserve. I know of no LEO that makes a conscious decision to hand out a ticket or to not hand out a ticket based upon seeing a permit/license to carry.

I will agree with only one point, I have known of LEO's not to give a ticket because the person they were dealing with was polite. However, I personally disagree with LEO's pulling over someone for violating the law, then at their own whim deciding whom should actually be charged and who shouldn't. If the only reason I do get a ticket is because I wouldn't give up my personal information even though I'm being polite about it, then I'm fine with that, since I got pulled over for doing something stupid in the first place and should be charged for it. However, refer to first rule of order. :wink:

 

[wolf_fire]

When they walk uo to th ecar I give them my dl and my CCp and tell them that even though it is not a requiremnt to inform here that I am carrying and where. One has asked me for my weapon for his safety. He took the weapon to his car and ran the numbers to make sure it wasnt a stolen weapon. He gave it back to me and He told me thanks for letting him know I was carrying and sent me on my way. I think telling him that I was carrying made him forget he had pulled me over for speeding.

The 2nd incident was a sobriety checkpoint: I did as above and the officer told me thanks, asked me a few questions and sent me on my way.

And if for some reason your FFL screwed up one number when you purchased your firearm, do you know what kind of maelstrom that LEO would have put all over you because you were being courteous and gave up your firearm to him for no other reason than you felt like it? That doesn't happen much at all, but there have been times when someone was legitimately carrying and an FFL made a mistake and when the LEO ran the numbers it didn't come back as a firearm that should be out on the street. {BTW, this is why you should always double check your paperwork when buying a firearm to make sure the numbers on the firearm match what the FFL wrote down on the form. Trust no one to be perfect.**

Don't give LEO's any extra information they don't need. You were stopped for some traffic ticket and now he's got possession of your firearm and running the serial numbers on it. You escalated a simple traffic stop to a possible firearms possession violation in case there was a paperwork snafu.

If for some reason you are in a state where you have no choice but to inform, then of course what I've said above will not pertain.

 

[BIGGBILL]

Not required in NY, However, I was recently pulled over by the State Police for a taillight issue and when approached by the officer he had his hand on his weapon and asked me if I was in possesion of mine. Before I could answer he informed me that he knew I had a CWP and if I was armed to just please put both hands on my helmet.
I did as he requested and he then padded me down and cuffed me, removed my 9mm, unloaded it, and placed it on the hood of his Patrol Car. By then two other Troopers arrived and I was placed in the back of one of the units. I was asked to produce my permit, which I did. They said it would be a few moments as they ran a check on the weapon and my permit. As we waited patiently for the inquiriy to go through, they totally went through my Saddle Bags & Tail Trunk, pulling everything out and laying it on the road for inspection. When it was all said and done, they returned my 9mm, empty, clip in a bag and the 7 rounds in another bag, they also issued a Non Functioning Tail Light summons and told me it wasn't a good idea to have my weapon loaded and to have a nice day. Then they looked at me as if expecting me to say Thank You?

 

[dadoo]

In Texas we have to show only if carrying. The only time I have been stopped, I had my CCL and my driver's license ready when the officer came to my window. I told him I had a concealed handgun and where it was. We were both polite and he simply told me not to put my hands near it and that was it. CCL information does show up in your DL information, so I have no reason not to volunteer the information first.

 

[davcommander]

AT Wolf and Blue and others that say they will never id themselves as carrying, I ask you this not to be argumentative but simply to explain my thought processes. There is no way I can know every states laws when it comes to CC. When I travel outside of OK I check to ensure all states have reciprocity with OK. But I can't know what every states laws are. My question to you is do you know what all 50 states laws are? As you can't, how do you know if you are traveling in a state that requires you to ID yourself as CC? If you fail to ID yourself, that may become a felony depending on that states laws. Would you not rather prevent any extra harassment or delay during a LEO encounter? Simply inform them and produce your ID and you are fine. If you aren't carrying you don't need to ID but again why take the chance if you are carrying to get yourself in trouble because your "God Given Rights" as set forth in the Constitution protect you?

 

[XD40scinNC]

If you are carrying in Texas and are stopped you are required to show it, only if on or about your person.

In NC we are required to advise and show upon request if armed, however best practice is to advise even when unarmed because when they run the vehicle tag, even before pulling you over, they also get NCIC info on the registered owner, which includes if they have a CHP. I will inform, and state unarmed so I don't have a nervous cop wondering why I didn't inform.

 

[BluesStringer]

AT Wolf and Blue and others that say they will never id themselves as carrying, I ask you this not to be argumentative but simply to explain my thought processes. There is no way I can know every states laws when it comes to CC. When I travel outside of OK I check to ensure all states have reciprocity with OK. But I can't know what every states laws are. My question to you is do you know what all 50 states laws are? As you can't, how do you know if you are traveling in a state that requires you to ID yourself as CC?

When you're traveling in all 50 states at the same time, or on the same trip, your point might be valid, but since no one does that, it's a straw man that is easy as pie to knock down.

For one thing, I don't travel much. I never fly and never will again because I don't trust the TSA to keep their hands off my wife or off my junk. I live pretty close to two state borders, TN and MS, and we have family in FL. Those are really the only states we might travel to in any kind of "spur-of-the-moment" trip. A quick review on my smart-phone of any of those three states' laws will tell me what my notification obligations are while in them. Likewise, states that I don't visit often are just a mouse-click away to find out what their laws are.

You notify if you wish. I won't unless I am obligated by law to do so. Doesn't matter which state I'm visiting, that will still be true. If the law doesn't make it any of a cop's business what's in my waistband, then it's just that simple; it's none of their business, and I will not be "guilted" into sharing my business with those who have no reason to know it based on some misguided sense of "courtesy" or "it's just right that they should know" kind of BS.

If you fail to ID yourself, that may become a felony depending on that states laws. Would you not rather prevent any extra harassment or delay during a LEO encounter? Simply inform them and produce your ID and you are fine. If you aren't carrying you don't need to ID but again why take the chance if you are carrying to get yourself in trouble because your "God Given Rights" as set forth in the Constitution protect you?

Why is "God Given Rights" in quotation marks? Whenever I put something in quotes that is not a direct quote of someone else's words, it's intended to be dismissive of the meaning of those words. Are you dismissing the notion that my rights are God-given? Are you dismissing the notion that all of the amendments in the Bill of Rights were contemplated by the Framers as having the imprimatur of being *natural* or God-given rights of all free men?

As to your other questions in that quote, if I have to "prevent any extra (???) harassment" by abdicating my God-given rights to some jack-wagon cop who doesn't follow his oath to protect and defend them, then it is the cop who is breaking the law! Don't you people get that? I am a law-abiding, peaceful, free citizen. I will not be fooled into believing that a cop's wishes for how a contact should go are somehow superior to the laws they are sworn to uphold. You, apparently, hold a false sense of "courtesy" above your own rights.

You can phrase it as many ways as you can think up, but I will never acquiesce to the notion that my rights come second to some oath-breaking cop's wishes and/or illegal demands.

Blues

 

[wrench49]

i have asked this same question around Colorado where i leave. I have asked both local police and state troopers and get different answers as how to handle it. one says to tell right from the start the other says to only say something after the officer tells you why you were pulled over and asks for drivers licence and registration.

 

[tac715]

As some have said, check the laws of the state you are traveling through, if the state has not per-empted firearms laws, like Washington, then you need to check the municipalities you will be traveling through. Example, in Washington, it is required to provide ID and CPL when requested by a LEO. In Michigan, it is NOT required to ID to LEO's, so even tho I have a CPL in WA., since MI honors my out of state CPL, I have to provide ID and CPL in WA. but not in MI. And beware, most states and municipalities when they do not have laws saying you can, will try to say you CAN"T. This is NOT the way law works, If there is no law regarding open carry, then it IS LEGAL to do so. This is the case in MI.

 

[rjfleming]

Not required in Montana but on a traffic stop when your plates are run your Montana Concealed Weapons permit will come up with the rest of your info. Since I have a department radio in my POV I have heard my plates run several times but have never been stopped. In MT my plan is to not show my permit unless required and out of MT to hand over my Permit with my Drivers License and ID just in case it's required.

 

[usmcspires6803]

Every state is different as you can see. Haha. With that I'm an Oregon resident so when I'm home and carry I call my brother (he's a police officer) just to make sure on the rules and ask what has changed. With that, my brother always told me it's better to be safe than sorry and when in doubt whip it out ( the permit NOT THE GUN ). In Oregon it's required and if you are respectful they will take less than five minutes and you can be on your way.

 

[chilipeppernorm]

Haven't been pulled over or stopped while armed so I can't speak from personal experience. My plan is to present my permit with ID if asked for ID, and the LEO can take it from there. They don't like surprises, and I think it is a good faith courtesy if you're asked to identify yourself even if it isn't a legal requirement. If there is any law enforcement on the forum it would be good to have their perspective. A good friend is retired California Highway Patrol and now lives in Washington state. He was pulled over by Washington State Patrol and told the officer he was carrying. The trooper laughed and stated "hell, everyone up here is carrying".

 

[wolf_fire]

AT Wolf and Blue and others that say they will never id themselves as carrying, I ask you this not to be argumentative but simply to explain my thought processes. There is no way I can know every states laws when it comes to CC. When I travel outside of OK I check to ensure all states have reciprocity with OK. But I can't know what every states laws are. My question to you is do you know what all 50 states laws are? As you can't, how do you know if you are traveling in a state that requires you to ID yourself as CC? If you fail to ID yourself, that may become a felony depending on that states laws. Would you not rather prevent any extra harassment or delay during a LEO encounter? Simply inform them and produce your ID and you are fine. If you aren't carrying you don't need to ID but again why take the chance if you are carrying to get yourself in trouble because your "God Given Rights" as set forth in the Constitution protect you?

Your argument sets up the straw man that neither Blues nor I know how to do research nor how to read. How dare you make an argument that even suggests that neither of us does not know how to research the laws of carrying within a state that we are traveling to. You have admitted that you do not know how to research nor read and therefore YOU have come to the conclusion that YOU cannot possibly know the laws of states you will travel into.

You my friend are either lazy and will not know the laws or merely a moron. I will not judge as to which since I do not know you.

I make it a habit to inform myself of the laws of a state before I go into it. As the officer will surely tell me, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it."

I do know exactly which states force me to violate my 4th and 5th amendment rights before I go into them. If you choose not to, then of course you will have your rights trampled on.

 

[wolf_fire]

i have asked this same question around Colorado where i leave. I have asked both local police and state troopers and get different answers as how to handle it. one says to tell right from the start the other says to only say something after the officer tells you why you were pulled over and asks for drivers licence and registration.

I am a Sheriff's deputy in our Reserve Division. PLEASE don't ever ask a LEO what the law is. Most have absolutely no clue. Most just enforce what their superiors tell them to do.

If you want to know the law, look it up and read it. If you don't understand it, ask a lawyer.