Religion of peace NOT!!


ronwill said:
I saw no hijack and I saw no zealot.
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I saw a discussion of religion being steered towards another anti-government rant.

It takes a certain insidious type of relationship building to get that together.
 

It seems that the problem here is a real lack of self confidence and a generalized feeling of inadequacy. Its heartbreaking to watch.
 
ronwill said:
Agreed. However, much of the reading was from former Branch Davidian members. Some from before Waco happened. I never said that the feds were in the right. I only used Waco (I should have only used the term Branch Davidians) as an example of how Christianity can be twisted into something it was never meant to be. I could have also mentioned Jonestown and others.
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While I agree in part with the sentiment...

I still contend Christians and all other religions in the entire history of the world cannot hold a candle to the bat-sh*t-crazy Islamofascist Muslims of the so-called religion of Islam...

I think WACO & or the Branch Davidians is a bad example...

As is Jonestown...
Unlike David Koresh, there is a lot more well-sourced facts about Jim Jones ACTIVITY'S prior to his death...
The peoples temple at Jonestown was purported to practice what it called "apostolic socialism" ...
In doing so, the Temple preached to established members that "those who remained drugged with the opiate of religion had to be brought to enlightenment — socialism."...
Jones often mixed those concepts, such as preaching that "If you're born in capitalist America, racist America, fascist America, then you're born in sin. But if you're born in socialism, you're not born in sin.

Not-withstanding Jim Jones had DEEP ties with the WELL-KNOWN members of the Democratic Party, including but not limited to Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, Diane Feinstein, Jerry Brown, Willie Brown...
Jim Jones & the Peoples temple in San Francisco participation proved instrumental in the mayoral election victory of George Moscone in 1975, Moscone appointed Jones as the Chairman of the San Francisco Housing Authority Commission...

I would sure like to see/read anything untainted that was written by former bonafide branch davidian members before WACO...

I have seen and read quite a bit of what is out there as well, and I have yet to find something credible that was written prior to WACO and as I mentioned previously, the most credible and thoroughly sourced thing I have seen authored since WACO has been what HK suggested...
WACO - Rules of Engagement
Link Removed
 
Bohemian said:
...the bat-sh*t-crazy Islamofascist Muslims of the so-called religion of Islam...
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You might consider mentioning the fact that the extremist radical MINORITY you seem to be referring to is a very SMALL minority within the overall population of the Muslim religion. And don't forget that all religions have extremist radical fundamentalist minorities, sects, cults, what-have-you.
 
Bohemian said:
While I agree in part with the sentiment...

I still contend Christians and all other religions in the entire history of the world cannot hold a candle to the bat-sh*t-crazy Islamofascist Muslims of the so-called religion of Islam...

I think WACO & or the Branch Davidians is a bad example...

As is Jonestown...
Unlike David Koresh, there is a lot more well-sourced facts about Jim Jones ACTIVITY'S prior to his death...
The peoples temple at Jonestown was purported to practice what it called "apostolic socialism" ...
In doing so, the Temple preached to established members that "those who remained drugged with the opiate of religion had to be brought to enlightenment — socialism."...
Jones often mixed those concepts, such as preaching that "If you're born in capitalist America, racist America, fascist America, then you're born in sin. But if you're born in socialism, you're not born in sin.

Not-withstanding Jim Jones had DEEP ties with the WELL-KNOWN members of the Democratic Party, including but not limited to Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, Diane Feinstein, Jerry Brown, Willie Brown...
Jim Jones & the Peoples temple in San Francisco participation proved instrumental in the mayoral election victory of George Moscone in 1975, Moscone appointed Jones as the Chairman of the San Francisco Housing Authority Commission...

I would sure like to see/read anything untainted that was written by former bonafide branch davidian members before WACO...

I have seen and read quite a bit of what is out there as well, and I have yet to find something credible that was written prior to WACO and as I mentioned previously, the most credible and thoroughly sourced thing I have seen authored since WACO has been what HK suggested...
WACO - Rules of Engagement
Link Removed
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Bohemian, understand that I am a Christian. I am in no way trying to defame the Christian faith, God or Jesus. I'm saying it is people who twists things and uses it for their advancement. I became interested in religions of the world when I took a college class years ago called "Religion and cults of the world". The professor actually presented the course in a relatively unbiased way and claimed to be Presbyterian (I say claimed because I didn't verify it). What I started understanding then is that people can twist good things into evil. Otherwise good faiths could be misused to advance ones cause. This is true of almost ALL faiths. Throughout history religion has been used wrongfully. The inquisition and witch burnings are probably the most famous but there are many more.
 
ronwill said:
Throughout history religion has been used wrongfully. The inquisition and witch burnings are probably the most famous but there are many more.
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This type activity is invariably associated with the institutionalization of religion, commonly seen when associated with government or ruling environment.

Thank goodness the Vatican's not really running anything of consequence outside a tiny portion of Rome.
 
Cocked _and_Locked said:
This type activity is invariably associated with the institutionalization of religion, commonly seen when associated with government or ruling environment.

Thank goodness the Vatican's not really running anything of consequence outside a tiny portion of Rome.
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What is your chosen religion?
 
ronwill said:
Bohemian, understand that I am a Christian. I am in no way trying to defame the Christian faith, God or Jesus. I'm saying it is people who twists things and uses it for their advancement. I became interested in religions of the world when I took a college class years ago called "Religion and cults of the world". The professor actually presented the course in a relatively unbiased way and claimed to be Presbyterian (I say claimed because I didn't verify it). What I started understanding then is that people can twist good things into evil. Otherwise good faiths could be misused to advance ones cause. This is true of almost ALL faiths. Throughout history religion has been used wrongfully. The inquisition and witch burnings are probably the most famous but there are many more.
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I don't disagree with you, my point remains supported by fact:
To-date Muslims (followers of Islam) have killed more innocents in the name of Allah than all other religions combined in the history of the world...

And yet we do not see any significant amount of the so-called moderate Muslim majority denouncing the Islamofascists making them all look bad...
 
Jesus is lord

Jesus loves me yes I know, for the bible tells me so.

Why don't you people try to love and understand, instead of hate? It is very unhealthy.

Thank you.:pleasantry::pleasantry::pleasantry:
 
mullet said:
They do, with whispers.
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Both the Catholics & the Mormons have failed to read Galatians 1:8-9.."But even if we or an angel from Heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed".

And Rev 22: 18-19..."For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall ADD unto these things, God shall ADD unto him the plagues that are written in this book. And if any man shall TAKE AWAY from the words of the book of this prophesy, God shall TAKE AWAY his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things that are written in this book."
 
For what its worth...

The Catholic Church On Mormonism...
Link Removed

Why The Mormon Church Hates The Catholic Church...
Mormon: Why the Mormon Church hates the Catholic Church

A Cult of Christianity
The Mormon Church - officially, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - considers itself not just a Christian denomination, but rather the only true expression of Christianity.

However, the history, theology and practices of Mormonism show this religious movement to be outside of orthodox Christianity.

Mormon Church : Apologetics research resources

Mountain Meadows Massacre
Mountain Meadows massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

YouTube - A High Ranking Catholic on Mormonism

Neither the Catholic's nor the Mormons or the combination thereof can compare to the 1000's of years of Islamofascism by Muslims claiming to following the tenets of Islam...
 
I don't believe that any formalized religion has it completely right. If so there wouldn't be so many off shoots and even divisions among faiths. I believe you're going to be judged on how you live your life and obey the teachings of the Bible. I mean the ENTIRE Bible and not by taking a single verse and building an entire faith around it. Remember that Jesus said "Many will seek to enter Heaven but few will enter". I don't believe this "few" will all come from a single faith but from many because they obeyed the teachings of the Bible not because they were Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Pentecostal, or any other organized church.
 
Religion convinced the world that there\\\'s an invisible man in the sky who watches everything you do. And there\\\'s 10 things he doesn\\\'t want you to do or else you\\\'ll to to a burning place with a lake of fire until the end of eternity. But he loves you! ...And he needs money! He\\\'s all powerful, but he can\\\'t handle money!
 
ronwill said:
I don't believe that any formalized religion has it completely right. If so there wouldn't be so many off shoots and even divisions among faiths. I believe you're going to be judged on how you live your life and obey the teachings of the Bible. I mean the ENTIRE Bible and not by taking a single verse and building an entire faith around it. Remember that Jesus said "Many will seek to enter Heaven but few will enter". I don't believe this "few" will all come from a single faith but from many because they obeyed the teachings of the Bible not because they were Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Pentecostal, or any other organized church.
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Ron I do not believe that if someone has truly been born again they will be judged at all.
Romans 8
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Scripture does say our works will be judged however. Bottom line, Know Jesus Know peace. No Jesus no peace.
 
HK4U said:
Ron I do not believe that if someone has truly been born again they will be judged at all.
Romans 8
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Scripture does say our works will be judged however. Bottom line, Know Jesus Know peace. No Jesus no peace.
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HK that's one I have to disagree with. I believe that all will be judged according to their life and be rewarded accordingly. Take a look at Romans chapter 14 verse 10-12 and 2 Corinthians chapter 5 verse 9 & 10 and let me know what you think. There are many more that say basically the same thing but those were the first to pop into mind.
 
ronwill said:
HK that's one I have to disagree with. I believe that all will be judged according to their life and be rewarded accordingly. Take a look at Romans chapter 14 verse 10-12 and 2 Corinthians chapter 5 verse 9 & 10 and let me know what you think. There are many more that say basically the same thing but those were the first to pop into mind.
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What is your take on this then?

“And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven, … Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man (aka, Jesus) will be forgiven.” (Matthew 12:31-32)
 
Bohemian said:
What is your take on this then?

“And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven, … Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man (aka, Jesus) will be forgiven.” (Matthew 12:31-32)
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Let's look at the whole writing:

31: Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.

32: Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

What do I think this means? I think that all sins, except those against the Holy Spirit, will be forgiven those who sincerely ask for it. This doesn't mean that we won't set before God and be judged for both the good and bad we do. Those who commit sins against the Holy Spirit on the other hand will never be forgiven and never see heaven.
 
ronwill said:
Let's look at the whole writing:

31: Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.

32: Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

What do I think this means? I think that all sins, except those against the Holy Spirit, will be forgiven those who sincerely ask for it. This doesn't mean that we won't set before God and be judged for both the good and bad we do. Those who commit sins against the Holy Spirit on the other hand will never be forgiven and never see heaven.
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All sins is pretty inclusive, with the only qualifying exclusion; being a sin against the holy spirit being don't you think?

I don't read any additional criteria into judgment therein...

Do you have any passages you recommend regarding that for further pontification?
 
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