Religion of peace NOT!!


Sheldon

New member
Next time you hear that Islam is the religion of peace bull go here for some retaliatory ammo....
Intolerance in the Quran BTY there are over 500 if you care to have a look, bellow is just a light sampling.




"Show us the straight path, The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray."
Muslims generally interpret "those whom Allah has favored," "those who earn Allah's anger," and "those who go astray" as Muslims, Jews, and Christians, respectively. 1:6-7

Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2:6

Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 2:10

Allah has blinded the disbelievers. 2:17-18

A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 2:24

Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 2:39, 2:90

Allah stamped wretchedness upon the Jews because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations. 2:61

Allah turned the Sabbath-breaking Jews into apes. 2:65-66

If you believe in only part of the Scripture, you will suffer in this life and go to hell in the next. 2:85

Allah has cursed them for their unbelief. 2:88

The curse of Allah is on disbelievers. 2:89

Jews are the greediest of all humankind. They'd like to live 1000 years. But they are going to hell. 2:96

Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers. 2:98

Only evil people are disbelievers. 2:99

For disbelievers is a painful doom. 2:104

Don't question anything Muhammed says or choose disbelief over faith. 2:108

"But those who keep their duty to Allah will be above them [non-muslims] on the Day of Resurrection." 2:212

For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 2:114

"And thou wilt not be asked about the owners of hell-fire." (They are the non-muslims.) 2:119

Disbelievers are losers. 2:121

Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 2:126

"Who forsaketh the religion of Abraham save him who befooleth himself?"
Cited in the Hamas Charter (Article 27) to condemn the idea of a secular state. 2:130

Those who reject the proofs, are accursed of Allah. 2:159

Those who die disbelievers, are cursed by Allah, angels, and men. 2:161

The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 2:162

They will not emerge from the Fire. 2:167

Disbelievers will be deaf, dumb, and blind. 2:171

Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 2:174

How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 2:175
 

Woman with “familiar spirits”
must be stoned to death. *Leviticus 20:27

“Thou shalt not suffer a witch
to live.” *Exodus 22:18

You must kill those who worship
another god. *Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that
worship a god that is different than your own.* Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any
city where you find people that worship differently than you. *Deuteronomy
13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious
views that are different than your own.* Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to
listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets.
Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive
the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that
of Sodom and Gomorrah. *Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God
destroys those who don’t believe in him. *Jude 5


Don’t associate with
non-Christians.* Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting
with them.* 2 John 1:10

Shun those who disagree with
your religious views.* Romans 16:17

Paul, knowing that their faith
would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to
avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8

Whoever denies “that Jesus is
the Christ” is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22

Christians are “of God;”
everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19

The non-Christian is “a
deceiver and an anti-Christ” 2 John 1:7

Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s
beliefs has “an evil heart.” Hebrews 3:12

False Jews are members of “the
synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9,

Everyone will have to worship
Jesus -- whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10

A Christian can not be accused
of any wrongdoing. Romans 8:33
 
This will not be one of my most popular posts but, unfortunately, both the Bible and Koran are filled with quotes of death to nonbelievers. The mistake is to take these quotes and turn them into a reason to kill innocent men, women and children. This is where extremism turns something good into something evil. Bad things happen in the name of Christianity because someone took a verse from the Bible and used it to their end. This is why abortion clinic bombings happen, Waco happened, and many more things happened. The same thing goes for the Koran and extremist Muslims. I am a Christian and believe that the majority of Muslims live and follow their faith peacefully just as the majority of Christians do. I'm ready for my stoning now.
 
Relgion, many of them contain violence

THIS CAME FROM THE SAME SOURCE
Cruelty and Violence in the Old Testament
If a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.--Lev.20:15

There is no text more barbaric than the Old Testament of the Bible--books like Deuteronomy and Leviticus and Exodus. The Quran pales in comparison. -- Sam Harris, Beliefnet inverview

THERE ARE 907 VERSES OF CRUELTY AND VIOLENCE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT

Cruelty in the New Testament

THERE ARE 144 VERSES OF CRUELTY AND VIOLENCE
Thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.--Rev.16:6

One of the things that is overlooked by many Christians is that there is a wrathful Jesus in the New Testament. Jesus comes out and condemns whole towns to fates worse than Sodom and Gomorrah for not liking his preaching. You can find Jesus in some very foul moods. -- Sam Harris, Beliefnet inverview

Matthew


Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12

Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30

Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14

Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 7:19

"The children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12

Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21

Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32

Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen.19:24). 10:14-15

Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21

Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and "able to destroy both soul and body in hell." 10:28

Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36

Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24

Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50

Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7

Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it's better to be "maimed" than to suffer "everlasting fire." 18:8-9

In the parable of the unforgiving servant, the king threatens to enslave a man and his entire family to pay for a debt. This practice, which was common at the time, seems not to have bothered Jesus very much. The parable ends with this: "So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you." If you are cruel to others, God will be cruel to you. 18:23-35

"And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors." 18:34

In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn't have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and "cast him into the outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 22:12-13

Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37

God will come when people least expect him and then he'll "cut them asunder." And "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 24:50-51

The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30

Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41

Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46
Mark


Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12

Jesus sends devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13

Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) 7:9-10

If you're ashamed of Jesus, he'll be ashamed of you. (And you'll go straight to hell.) 8:38

Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49

Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don't will be damned. 16:16
Luke


God strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel's words. 1:20

Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 3:9

John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17

Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37

Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15

Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5

Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes." 12:46-47

"Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." 13:3, 5

According to Jesus, only a few will be saved; the vast majority will suffer eternally in hell where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 13:23-30

In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man goes to hell, because as Abraham explains, he had a good life on earth and so now he will be tormented. Whereas Lazarus, who was miserable on earth, is now in heaven. This seems fair to Jesus. 16:19-31

Jesus believed the story of Noah's ark. He thought it really happened and had no problem with the idea of God drowning everything and everybody. 17:26-27

Jesus also believes the story about Sodom's destruction. He says, "even thus shall it be in the day the son of man is revealed ... Remember Lot's wife." This tells us about Jesus' knowledge of science and history, and his sense of justice. 17:29-32

In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn't sow. The parable ends with the words: "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." 19:22-27
John


Jesus believed the stupid and vicious story from Numbers 21. (God sent snakes to bite the people for complaining about the lack of foood and water, and then God told Moses to make a brass snake to cure them from the bites.) 3:14

As an example to parents everywhere and to save the world (from himself), God had his own son tortured and killed. 3:16

People are damned or saved depending only on what they believe. 3:18, 36

The "wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. 3:36

Jesus believes people are crippled by God as a punishment for sin. He tells a crippled man, after healing him, to "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." 5:14

Those who do not believe in Jesus will be cast into a fire to be burned. 15:6

Jesus says we must eat his flesh and drink his blood if we want to have eternal life. This idea was just too gross for "many of his disciples" and "walked no more with him." 6:53-66
Acts


Peter claims that Deuteronomy 18:18-19 refers to Jesus, saying that those who refuse to follow him (all non-Christians) must be killed. 3:23

Peter and God scare Ananias and his wife to death for not forking over all of the money that they made when selling their land. 5:1-10

Peter has a dream in which God show him "wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls." The voice (God's?) says, "Rise, Peter: kill and eat." 10:10-13

Peter describes the vision that he had in the last chapter (10:10-13). All kinds of beasts, creeping things, and fowls drop down from the sky in a big sheet, and a voice (God's, Satan's?) tells him to "Arise, Peter; slay and eat." 11:5-6

The "angel of the Lord" killed Herod by having him "eaten of worms" because "he gave not God the glory." 12:23

David was "a man after [God's] own heart." 13:22

The author of Acts talks about the "sure mercies of David." But David was anything but merciful. For an example of his behavior see 2 Sam.12:31 and 1 Chr.20:3, where he saws, hacks, and burns to death the inhabitants of several cities. 13:34

Paul and the Holy Ghost conspire together to make Elymas (the sorcerer) blind. 13:8-11
Romans


Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death." 1:31-32

The guilty are "justified" and "saved from wrath" by the blood of an innocent victim. 5:9

God punishes everyone for someone else's sin; then he saves them by killing an innocent victim. 5:12
1 Corinthians


If you defile the temple of God, God will destroy you. 3:17

Paul claims that God killed 23,000 in a plague for "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab 10:8

If you tempt Christ (How could you tempt Christ?), you'll will die from snake bites. 10:9

If you murmur, you'll be destroyed by the destroyer (God). 10:10
2 Corinthians

The terror of the Lord 5:11
Galatians (None)

Ephesians


We are predestined by God to go to either heaven or hell. None of our thoughts, words, or actions can affect the final outcome. 1:4-5, 11

God had his son murdered to keep himself from hurting others for things they didn't do. 1:7

The bloody death of Jesus smelled good to God. 5:2

Those who refuse to obey will face the wrath of God. 5:6
Philippians (None)

Colossians


God bought us with someone else's blood. 1:14

God makes peace through blood. 1:19-20
1 Thessalonians


God is planning a messy, mass murder in "the wrath to come" and only Jesus can save you from it. 1:10

Christians shouldn't mourn the death of their fellow believers. They'll be OK and you'll see them later in heaven. The people you should mourn are dead nonbelievers. They have no hope (becasue they're going to hell). 4:13
2 Thessalonians


Jesus will take "vengeance on them that know not God" by burning them forever "in flaming fire." 1:7-9

Jesus will "consume" the wicked "with the spirit of his mouth." 2:8

God will cause us to believe lies so that he can damn our souls to hell. 2:11-12
1 Timothy (None)

2 Timothy (None)

Titus (None)

Philemon (None)

Hebrews


God will not forgive us unless we shed the blood of some innocent creature. 9:13-14, 22

Those who disobeyed the Old Testament law were killed without mercy. It will be much worse for those who displease Jesus. 10:28-29

The Israelites kept the passover and sprinkled blood on doorposts so that God wouldn't kill their firstborn children (like he did the Egyptians in Exodus 12:29). 11:28

God ordered animals to be "stoned, or thrust through with a dart" if they "so much as ... touch the mountain." 12:20
James


If you are merciless to others, God will be merciless to you. (Two wrongs make a right.) 2:13

James says Abraham was justified by works (for being willing to kill his son for God); Paul (Rom.4:2-3) says he was justified by faith (for believing that God would order him to do such an evil act). 2:21
1 Peter


We are all, according to Peter, predestined to be saved or damned. We have no say in the matter. It was all determined by "the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ."1:2

"The precious blood of Christ ... was foreordained before the foundation of the world."
God planned to kill Jesus from the get-go. 1:19-20

God drowned drowned everyone on earth except for Noah and his family. 3:20
2 Peter


God drowned everyone else on earth except for Noah and his family. 2:5, 3:6

"Turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes" 2:6

God will set the entire earth on fire so that he can burn non-believers to death. 3:7

When Jesus returns, he'll burn up the whole earth and everything on it. 3:10
1 John


Jesus' blood washes away human sin. 1:7
2 John (None)

3 John (None)

Jude


"The Lord destroyed them that believed not." 5
Revelation


Jesus "washed us ... with his own blood." 1:5

Everyone on earth will wail because of Jesus. 1:7

Jesus has "the keys of hell and death." 1:18

Repent -- or else Jesus will fight you with the sword that sticks out of his mouth. (Like the limbless knight in Monty Python's "Holy Grail.") 2:16

"I [Jesus] will kill her children with death." 2:23

"Thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." God created predators, pathogens, and predators for his very own pleasure. One of his favorite species is guinea worms. 4:11

"Thou art worthy ... for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood." 5:9

God gives someone on a white horse a bow and sends him out to conquer people. 6:2

God gave power to someone on a red horse "to take from the earth ... that they should kill one another." 6:4

God tells Death and Hell to kill one quarter of the earth's population with the sword, starvation, and "with the beasts of the earth." 6:8

The martyrs just can't wait until everyone else is slaughtered. God gives them a white robe and tells them to wait until he's done with his killing spree. 6:10-11

God tells his murderous angels to "hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of your God on their foreheads." This verse is one that Christians like to use to show God's loving concern for the environment. But the previous verse (7:2) makes it clear that it was their God-given job to "hurt the earth and the sea" just as soon as they finished their forehead marking job. 7:3

144,000 Jews will be going to heaven; everyone else is going to hell. 7:4

Those that survive the great tribulation will get to wash their clothes in the blood of the lamb. 7:14

God sends his angels to destroy a third part of all the trees, grass, sea creature, mountains, sun, moon, starts, and water. 8:7-13

"Many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter." 8:11

The angels are instructed not to "hurt the grass [how could they? He already had all the grass killed in 8:7] ... but only those men which have not the seal of God on their foreheads." God tells his angels not to kill them, but rather torment them with scorpions for five months. Those tormented will want to die, but God won't let them. 9:4-6

God makes some horse-like locusts with human heads, women's hair, lion's teeth, and scorpion's tails. They sting people and hurt them for five months. 9:7-10

Four angels, with an army of 200 million, killed a third of the earth's population. 9:15-19

Anyone that messes with God's two olive trees and two candlesticks (God's witnesses) will be burned to death by fire that comes out of their mouths. 11:3-5

God's witnesses have special powers. They can shut up heaven so that it cannot rain, turn rivers into blood, and smite the earth with plagues "as often as they will." 11:6

After God's witnesses "have finished their testimony," they are killed in a war with a beast from a bottomless pit. 11:7

Their dead bodies lie unburied for three and a half days. People will "rejoice over them and make merry, and shall send gifts to one another." After another three and half days God brings his witnesses back to life and they ascend into heaven. 11:8-12

When the witnesses ascend into heaven, an earthquake kills 7000 men. This was the second woe. "The third woe cometh quickly." 11:13-14

"The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world"
God planned to kill Jesus before he created the world. 13:8

Those who receive the mark of the beast will "drink of the wine of the wrath of God ... and shall be tormented with fire and brimstone ... and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever." 14:10-11

Jesus sits on a white cloud with a sharp sickle in his hand. When the angel tells him to reap, he kills all the people with his sickle. 14:14-18

"The great winepress of the wrath of God ... was trodden ... and the blood cam out of the winepress, even unto the horses bridles." 14:19-20

Seven angels with seven plagues are filled with the wrath of God. 15:1, 15:7

The seven vials of wrath: 1) sores, 2) sea turned to blood, 3) rivers turned to blood, 4) people scorched with fire, 5) people gnaw their tongues in pain, 6) Euphrates dries up, 7) thunder, lightning, earthquake, and hail. 16:1

"There fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast." 16:2

"The second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea." 16:3

"The third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood." 16:4

God gave the saints and prophets blood to drink. 16:6

An angel tells God how righteous he is because he gives saints blood to drink. 16:7

"Power was given unto him [the fourth angel] to scorch men with fire." 16:8

Those who were being burned to death by God didn't repent "to give him glory." 16:9

"The fifth angel poured out his vial ... and they gnawed their tongues for pain." 16:10

Even after being burned alive, those nasty people wouldn't repent! 16:11

Christians will fight in the war between Jesus and those allied with the beast. 17:14

"They shall eat her flesh and burn her with fire." (Are they going to eat her first and then burn her?) 17:16-17

To punish her God will send plagues and famine, and "she will be utterly burned with fire." 18:8

God will send plagues, death, and famine on Babylon, and the kings "who have committed fornication with her" will be sad to see her burn. 18:8-9

Jesus makes war. 19:11

Jesus's clothes are dipped in blood and his secret name ("that no man knew") is "The Word of God". (I bet you thought it was Jesus!) 19:13

With eyes aflame, many crowns on his head, clothes dripping with blood, a sword sticking out of his mouth, and a secret name, Jesus leads the faithful in heaven into holy war on earth. 19:14-15

"Come ... unto the supper of the great God." An angel calls all the fowls to feast upon the flesh of dead horses and human bodies, "both free and bond, both small and great." 19:17-18

The beast and the false prophet are cast alive into a lake of fire. The rest were killed with the sword of Jesus. "And all the fowls were filled with their flesh." 19:20-21

God will send fire from heaven to devour people. And the devil will be tormented "day and night for ever and ever." 20:9-10

Whoever isn't found listed in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. 20:15

All liars, as well as those who are fearful or unbelieving, will be cast into "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." 21:8

New Testament Cruelty
 
This will not be one of my most popular posts but, unfortunately, both the Bible and Koran are filled with quotes of death to nonbelievers. The mistake is to take these quotes and turn them into a reason to kill innocent men, women and children. This is where extremism turns something good into something evil. Bad things happen in the name of Christianity because someone took a verse from the Bible and used it to their end. This is why abortion clinic bombings happen, Waco happened, and many more things happened. The same thing goes for the Koran and extremist Muslims. I am a Christian and believe that the majority of Muslims live and follow their faith peacefully just as the majority of Christians do. I'm ready for my stoning now.

I am pretty much on the same page with you on this one ron with a few exceptions...

I think you are off base on the abortion clinic bombings and WACO being the end result of a christian or other religious faith directive inferred or claimed to be inferred by the bible...

As far as WACO goes I hold Slick-Willie Clinton, Janet Reno and Eric Holder and the BATFE responsible, in my opinion the folks at WACO were well-within their Constitutionally Protected Rights and sincerely hope that someday the Federal Government and those responsible will be held accountable for the Tyranny and murder they got away with...

I Still have yet to find when and where any individual claiming to be Christian or other non-Muslim faith strapped a bomb to their arse for martyrdom & 72 Virgins...
While it has pretty much been a daily event since the invention of gun powder for Islamofascists claiming to be following the tenets of Islam...

Obviously, if history has taught us anything it is that all religions have done their share of killing claiming to be justified by their interpretation of their respective faiths...

Although, I contend that Islamofascists have historically and continue to do the lions share of it; and I hold that no other so-called religion in world history has been or is so fundamentally intent on their religion in this case "Islam" being THE ONLY RELIGION...

I am trying to be objective but I have had one to many first-hand disagreements with devout Muslims intent on killing Infidels and non-believers...

Notwithstanding, poll after poll of U.S. Born Muslims are cropping up with demonstrable results reflecting that Martyrdom is a reasonable approach to dissent...

Then there is the fact that indoctrination of foreign born Muslims begins as early as 5; that for men there is nothing better then can do with their lives then Kill an American or Jew anywhere on earth by any means necessary; because they are all infidels...
And for women there is nothing better they can do with their lives then have sons for martyrdom and Islam...

They teach it in their schools, mosques, in their homes, its on their media, until the cycle of hate indoctrination is put to a stop, the peaceful-Muslims will remain the silent and virtually unknown & inept majority...
 
I am pretty much on the same page with you on this one ron with a few exceptions...

I think you are off base on the abortion clinic bombings and WACO being the end result of a christian or other religious faith directive inferred or claimed to be inferred by the bible...

As far as WACO goes I hold Slick-Willie Clinton, Janet Reno and Eric Holder and the BATFE responsible, in my opinion the folks at WACO were well-within their Constitutionally Protected Rights and sincerely hope that someday the Federal Government and those responsible will be held accountable for the Tyranny and murder they got away with...

I Still have yet to find when and where any individual claiming to be Christian or other non-Muslim faith strapped a bomb to their arse for martyrdom & 72 Virgins...
While it has pretty much been a daily event since the invention of gun powder for Islamofascists claiming to be following the tenets of Islam...

Obviously, if history has taught us anything it is that all religions have done their share of killing claiming to be justified by their interpretation of their respective faiths...

Although, I contend that Islamofascists have historically and continue to do the lions share of it; and I hold that no other so-called religion in world history has been or is so fundamentally intent on their religion in this case "Islam" being THE ONLY RELIGION...

I am trying to be objective but I have had one to many first-hand disagreements with devout Muslims intent on killing Infidels and non-believers...

Notwithstanding, poll after poll of U.S. Born Muslims are cropping up with demonstrable results reflecting that Martyrdom is a reasonable approach to dissent...

Then there is the fact that indoctrination of foreign born Muslims begins as early as 5; that for men there is nothing better then can do with their lives then Kill an American or Jew anywhere on earth by any means necessary; because they are all infidels...
And for women there is nothing better they can do with their lives then have sons for martyrdom and Islam...

They teach it in their schools, mosques, in their homes, its on their media, until the cycle of hate indoctrination is put to a stop, the peaceful-Muslims will remain the silent and virtually unknown & inept majority...

Those that bombed the clinics claimed abortion to be a sin and against the teachings of the Bible. Granted not all did but most used the Bible as giving them the authority. As for Waco folks being within their Constitutional rights I would have to disagree. This is mainly because of the leader forcing underage girls to be "wives". Yes the feds messed up badly on their actions. This doesn't diminish the fact that the leader used his version of Christianity to imprison most of his followers and force them into "marriages" that most did not want. As for Christian suicide bombers, there may not be many modern ones but take a look at the following:

Suicide Bombing: The First Was A Christian | Home | Sky News

Please understand, I am a Christian and am not trying to belittle it in any way. It is people that twist faith.
 
Those that bombed the clinics claimed abortion to be a sin and against the teachings of the Bible. Granted not all did but most used the Bible as giving them the authority. As for Waco folks being within their Constitutional rights I would have to disagree. This is mainly because of the leader forcing underage girls to be "wives". Yes the feds messed up badly on their actions. This doesn't diminish the fact that the leader used his version of Christianity to imprison most of his followers and force them into "marriages" that most did not want. As for Christian suicide bombers, there may not be many modern ones but take a look at the following:

Suicide Bombing: The First Was A Christian | Home | Sky News

Please understand, I am a Christian and am not trying to belittle it in any way. It is people that twist faith.

Interesting points that open up a few more slipery slopes. Context is the key, although context certainly does not justify the actions in all the examples. If the slope gets too slippery, a simple game of chess can become suicidal!
 
What Icy N SFE are missing is the Bible is a collection of stories, and thoughts of many individuals, kind of a historical text were what they did then in that situation... Times change we grew, and then came the New Testiment.... With a whole new thought process again written by multiple individuals relating their story's, as a guide to the people.

If you want to read the actual Bible verse in the original context in it's entirety and not just the partial quotes Icy N SFE are supplying go here Bible Search and put their quotes in their proper perspective.

The Qua ran on the other hand is a single text written (transcribed as Mohamed was illiterate) by a single individual commands about hate, laws, and how you must act, and is taken very seriously by over 100,000,000 people who wish anyone not a Muslim dead... If you want the actual verse there then click the link I provided in my first post......
 
People need to learn the difference between the Muslim religion and the concept of Islam, which is complete set of laws
and political beliefs which happen to encompass the Muslim religion. If you care to take 5 minutes to educate yourself about
Islam, take a look at this:
YouTube - Three Things About Islam

Americans are naturally predisposed to be very tolerant of any religion, but we had better be aware of what all we are up
against and in this case it's not just religion. Europe is falling prey to Sharia Law, even letting it usurp their own laws of the land, no matter if it's England, France, Spain --- take your pick. No country can survive trying to work under two sets of
laws; multiple religions yes, but not two sets of laws.
 
What Icy N SFE are missing is the Bible is a collection of stories, and thoughts of many individuals, kind of a historical text were what they did then in that situation... Times change we grew, and then came the New Testiment.... With a whole new thought process again written by multiple individuals relating their story's, as a guide to the people.

If you want to read the actual Bible verse in the original context in it's entirety and not just the partial quotes Icy N SFE are supplying go here Bible Search and put their quotes in their proper perspective.

The Qua ran on the other hand is a single text written (transcribed as Mohamed was illiterate) by a single individual commands about hate, laws, and how you must act, and is taken very seriously by over 100,000,000 people who wish anyone not a Muslim dead... If you want the actual verse there then click the link I provided in my first post......

You and I agree on that one. I've said several times the Bible is written using many parables to make things easier to understand back then. You can't take a single verse and make it law, instead you must use the entire scripture to live by. Unfortunately many religions came about because of the former. It's finally going to come down to the individual and the Almighty on who's right and wrong.
 
Last edited:
In both cases you cannot just pull one verse and make any inferences on it. Any biblical scholar will tell you that. You have to look at the context.

As far as Waco and Ruby Ridge, both were products of the absolute ineptitude of the Federal Government. Koresh was a nut, and was probably breaking several laws but they could have easily arrested him on his Saturday trips to Wal-Mart. Complete tactical ineptituted and failure to understand the whole situation. Everyone involved should have been fired and prosecuted for that foul up. I did not know Holder was involved in that.
 
In both cases you cannot just pull one verse and make any inferences on it. Any biblical scholar will tell you that. You have to look at the context.

As far as Waco and Ruby Ridge, both were products of the absolute ineptitude of the Federal Government. Koresh was a nut, and was probably breaking several laws but they could have easily arrested him on his Saturday trips to Wal-Mart. Complete tactical ineptituted and failure to understand the whole situation. Everyone involved should have been fired and prosecuted for that foul up. I did not know Holder was involved in that.

That was the point I was trying to make. Nuts, fanatics, extremists will take the Bible or Koran and use verses to convince themselves they are doing right. You have to take the entire book, be it the Bible or Koran, into consideration not just a verse or two. There's no argument that the feds messed up big time in Waco. It wasn't just Koresh they were after though. He had several who were just as twisted as he was. The feds could have done things much differently and, with better planning, gotten better results. The feds messed up but that doesn't eliminate the fact that Koresh and his band were sickos that needed to be taken down.
 
People need to learn the difference between the Muslim religion and the concept of Islam, which is complete set of laws
and political beliefs which happen to encompass the Muslim religion. If you care to take 5 minutes to educate yourself about
Islam, take a look at this:
YouTube - Three Things About Islam

Americans are naturally predisposed to be very tolerant of any religion, but we had better be aware of what all we are up
against and in this case it's not just religion. Europe is falling prey to Sharia Law, even letting it usurp their own laws of the land, no matter if it's England, France, Spain --- take your pick. No country can survive trying to work under two sets of
laws; multiple religions yes, but not two sets of laws.

The Religion of Islam

Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Islam's fundamental theological concept is tawhīd—the belief that there is only one god. The Arabic term for God is Allāh; most scholars believe it was derived from a contraction of the words al- (the) and ʾilāh (deity, masculine form), meaning "the god" (al-ilāh), but others trace its origin to the Aramaic Alāhā.[21] Other non-Arabic nations might use different names, for instance in Turkey the Turkish word for God, "Tanrı" is used as much as Allah. The first of the Five Pillars of Islam, tawhīd is expressed in the shahadah (testification), which declares that there is no god but God, and that Muhammad is God's messenger. In traditional Islamic theology, God is beyond all comprehension; Muslims are not expected to visualize God but to worship and adore Him as the Protector. The Qur'an has described God by certain attributes or names, the most common being al-rahman, meaning "the compassionate" and al-rahim, meaning "the merciful" (See Names of God in Islam).[22] Muslims believe the purpose of life is to worship God.[4] Although Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet, they reject the Christian doctrine of the Trinity and divinity of Jesus, comparing it to polytheism. In Islamic theology, Jesus was just a man and not the son of God;[23] God is described in Surah al ikhlaas ch.112 of the Qur'an as "...God, the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him."[24]

Five Pillars
The Five Pillars of Islam (Arabic: أركان الإسلام) are five practices essential to Sunni Islam. Shi'a Muslims subscribe to different sets of pillars which substantially overlap with the Five Pillars.[45]

The Five Pillars of Islam are:
The shahadah,[46] which is the basic creed of Islam that must be recited under oath with the specific statement: "'ašhadu 'al-lā ilāha illā-llāhu wa 'ašhadu 'anna muħammadan rasūlu-llāh", or "I testify that there is none worthy of worship except God and I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of God." This testament is a foundation for all other beliefs and practices in Islam. Muslims must repeat the shahadah in prayer, and non-Muslims wishing to convert to Islam are required to recite the creed.[47]
  1. Salah, or ritual prayer, which must be performed five times a day. Salah is intended to focus the mind on God, and is seen as a personal communication with him that expresses gratitude and worship. Salah is compulsory but flexibility in the specifics is allowed depending on circumstances. The prayers are recited in the Arabic language, and consist of verses from the Qur'an.[48]
  2. Sawm, or fasting during the month of Ramadan. Muslims must not eat or drink (among other things) from dawn to dusk during this month, and must be mindful of other sins. The fast is to encourage a feeling of nearness to God, and during it Muslims should express their gratitude for and dependence on him, atone for their past sins, and think of the needy. Sawm is not obligatory for several groups for whom it would constitute an undue burden. For others, flexibility is allowed depending on circumstances, but missed fasts usually must be made up quickly.[49]
  3. Zakat, or alms-giving, which is giving a fixed portion of accumulated wealth by those who can afford it to help the poor or needy, and also to assist the spread of Islam. It is considered a religious obligation (as opposed to voluntary charity) that the well-off owe to the needy because their wealth is seen as a "trust from God's bounty". The Qur'an and the hadith also suggest a Muslim give even more as an act of voluntary alms-giving (sadaqah).[50]
  4. The Hajj, which is the pilgrimage during the Islamic month of Dhu al-Hijjah in the city of Mecca. Every able-bodied Muslim who can afford it must make the pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in his or her lifetime. Rituals of the Hajj include walking seven times around the Kaaba, touching the black stone if possible, walking or running seven times between Mount Safa and Mount Marwah, and symbolically stoning the Devil in Mina.[51]
LawThe Sharia (literally "the path leading to the watering place") is Islamic law formed by traditional Islamic scholarship, which most Muslim groups adhere to. In Islam, Sharia is the expression of the divine will, and "constitutes a system of duties that are incumbent upon a Muslim by virtue of his religious belief".[52]
Over the years there have been changing views on Islamic law but many such as Zahiri and Jariri have since died out.[53][54] Islamic law covers all aspects of life, from matters of state, like governance and foreign relations, to issues of daily living. The Qur'an defines hudud as the punishments for five specific crimes: unlawful intercourse, false accusation of unlawful intercourse, consumption of alcohol, theft, and highway robbery. The Qur'an and Sunnah also contain laws of inheritance, marriage, and restitution for injuries and murder, as well as rules for fasting, charity, and prayer. However, these prescriptions and prohibitions may be broad, so their application in practice varies. Islamic scholars (known as ulema) have elaborated systems of law on the basis of these rules and their interpretations.[55]
Fiqh, or "jurisprudence", is defined as the knowledge of the practical rules of the religion. The method Islamic jurists use to derive rulings is known as usul al-fiqh ("legal theory", or "principles of jurisprudence"). According to Islamic legal theory, law has four fundamental roots, which are given precedence in this order: the Qur'an, the Sunnah (actions and sayings of Muhammad), the consensus of the Muslim jurists (ijma), and analogical reasoning (Link Removed). For early Islamic jurists, theory was less important than pragmatic application of the law. In the 9th century, the jurist ash-Shafi'i provided a theoretical basis for Islamic law by codifying the principles of jurisprudence (including the four fundamental roots) in his book ar-Risālah.[56]

Religion and state
Mainstream Islamic law does not distinguish between "matters of church" and "matters of state"; the ulema function as both jurists and theologians. In practice, Islamic rulers frequently bypassed the Sharia courts with a parallel system of so-called "Grievance courts" over which they had sole control. As the Muslim world came into contact with Western secular ideals, Muslim societies responded in different ways. Turkey has been governed as a secular state ever since the reforms of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. In contrast, the 1979 Iranian Revolution replaced a mostly secular regime with an Islamic republic led by the Ayatollah Khomeini.[57]
 
In both cases you cannot just pull one verse and make any inferences on it. Any biblical scholar will tell you that. You have to look at the context.

As far as Waco and Ruby Ridge, both were products of the absolute ineptitude of the Federal Government. Koresh was a nut, and was probably breaking several laws but they could have easily arrested him on his Saturday trips to Wal-Mart. Complete tactical ineptitude and failure to understand the whole situation. Everyone involved should have been fired and prosecuted for that foul up. I did not know Holder was involved in that.

"Whenever governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to (first) destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins." - Elbridge Gerry

Personally, I don't give a rat's arse what the Branch Davidians were doing as long as everybody was doing it of their own free will...

I will agree that Koresh & the The Branch Davidians were portrayed as nuts by the Clinton News Network and the liberal biased main stream media...
Branch Davidian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I do not feel it is up to me or the federal or state governments to pass judgment on them for their religious views; when nobody was being hurt; and nobody was being forced to do anything that was not of their own free will...

We simply cannot, must not demonize and persecute anybody for what they might be doing or might do at some point in the future...
Key Tenets of a Constitutional Republic...

Some Key points being missed with WACO & Ruby Ridge and more recently the Hutaree Michigan based Militia and others; by many is the federal government's intent was/is to unconstitutionally disarm a group of individuals whom had some level of means to resist a tyrannical government...

They keep wanting to shove that valid sporting purpose b.s. down our throats...
As the saying goes... "The Second Amendment Ain't About Duck Hunting"

Regardless of what cult-type or other activities that some may find questionable; that may or may not have been going on, there were several highly educated women whom were doctors and lawyers that were members whom to this day claim no wrong doings by David Koresh; and that the Federal Government clearly violated fundamental rights of all residents therein...

Further, the FOIA documents on the warrants CLEARLY DEMONSTRATE THE FED WAS THERE FOR THE GUNS...
AND as I see it ... to send a message to the general public - "Resistance To The Federal Government IS Futile"

Note:
Current Obama Appointed Attorney General Eric Holder was Deputy Attorney General under Janet Reno (Appointed By Slick-Willie Clinton)...

"Dissension is the greatest form of patriotism" Thomas Jefferson

"The several States composing the United States of America, are not united on the principle of unlimited submission to their General Government" - Thomas Jefferson

The First Fundamental Principle of Constitutional Interpretation: Your Rights Don't Come From Government
Oath Keepers: CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC 101: YOUR RIGHTS DON’T COME FROM GOVERNMENT

Without our liberties, we have NOTHING...

Vote Freedom First...
 
Those that bombed the clinics claimed abortion to be a sin and against the teachings of the Bible. Granted not all did but most used the Bible as giving them the authority. As for Waco folks being within their Constitutional rights I would have to disagree. This is mainly because of the leader forcing underage girls to be "wives". Yes the feds messed up badly on their actions. This doesn't diminish the fact that the leader used his version of Christianity to imprison most of his followers and force them into "marriages" that most did not want. As for Christian suicide bombers, there may not be many modern ones but take a look at the following:

Suicide Bombing: The First Was A Christian | Home | Sky News

Please understand, I am a Christian and am not trying to belittle it in any way. It is people that twist faith.

Thanks for the link, I was not aware of that information...
It should be noted that martyrdom & 72 Virgins was not part of the intent therein; the Muslims OWN THAT ONE...
Although, it does not change the fact historically more individuals claiming to follow the tenets of Islam have performed or been responsible for suicide bombings or equivalents then all other faiths combined...

I don't condone it regardless of who does it...

Although, I will agree to disagree on your assessment of the goings on at WACO, I have not found it thus-far well grounded in un-biased facts...
Further, nothing indicating anybody was forced to do anything not of their own free will...

Notwithstanding, quite a few states and other municipalities differ on what a under age person is in regards to marriage; the youngest I have found is 13 and 14 in numerous states...

Be that as it may; THE KEY POINT IS... the Fed was there for the GUNS by their own admission, stories were changed after the fact, the warrants and FOIA requests speak volumes...

Wonder if any other key Constitutional Infringements were shoved down the pants of Sandy Berger as part of his cover Slick-Wille's arse operation at the National Archives...

Link Removed
 
Thanks for the link, I was not aware of that information...
It should be noted that martyrdom & 72 Virgins was not part of the intent therein; the Muslims OWN THAT ONE...
Although, it does not change the fact historically more individuals claiming to follow the tenets of Islam have performed or been responsible for suicide bombings or equivalents then all other faiths combined...

I don't condone it regardless of who does it...

Although, I will agree to disagree on your assessment of the goings on at WACO, I have not found it thus-far well grounded in un-biased facts...
Further, nothing indicating anybody was forced to do anything not of their own free will...

Notwithstanding, quite a few states and other municipalities differ on what a under age person is in regards to marriage; the youngest I have found is 13 and 14 in numerous states...

Be that as it may; THE KEY POINT IS... the Fed was there for the GUNS by their own admission, stories were changed after the fact, the warrants and FOIA requests speak volumes...

Wonder if any other key Constitutional Infringements were shoved down the pants of Sandy Berger as part of his cover Slick-Wille's arse operation at the National Archives...

Link Removed

You know Bohemian in some minor points we disagree but it's always a good conversation with you. It's true many of the adults were there freely but some were not. Who do you think gave the feds their intel? Kids are far to easily influenced and any 12 year old forced into marriage isn't doing it of her own free will. The group, especially Koresh, were crackpots. What was done by the feds was wrong, what was done by Koresh and his group was also very wrong.
 
You know Bohemian in some minor points we disagree but it's always a good conversation with you. It's true many of the adults were there freely but some were not. Who do you think gave the feds their intel? Kids are far to easily influenced and any 12 year old forced into marriage isn't doing it of her own free will. The group, especially Koresh, were crackpots. What was done by the feds was wrong, what was done by Koresh and his group was also very wrong.

As I see it... Since we only got a biased media view of what was occurring within the confines of the Branch Davidians compound; I am keeping an open mind about that until they actually get their day in court...
The Fed on the other hand... Clearly Infringed Upon Their Second & Fifth Amendment rights at the least...

Fifth Amendment...
"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
 
Waco the rules of Engagement is a good video if you want to see and understand all the lies the feds told. Many women and children were murdered. IMHO.
 

New Threads

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
49,542
Messages
611,259
Members
74,964
Latest member
sigsag1
Back
Top