After reading through the thread, I'm going to have to side with lcdr. Here is why:
1. A hardened target does not have to be armored. The term hardened is in reference to your presentation. A soldier with his rifle hanging to his side, with more of a relaxed posture is less hardened than a soldier with his hand on the grip in an attentive posture.
2. The warship references didn't make sense to me. As citizens we are not at war. The somali pirates is a better example about society. Pirates would not even consider taking a vessel that had a guard. How often do you hear about a store next to a police station being robbed?
3. No one can provide proof that open carriers have been targeted. I do not believe police are in the oc group because they have presented themselves differently with the uniform and badge.
4. Where are these determined criminals? How long has it been since a professional team robbed a bank for large sums in the United States? Seems the only stories I have read deal with a single person going for a single register. I think the big bank robbery scenario is to close to hollywood. My view of a determined bad guy is one who does not plan to come out alive...in which case, it depends on the place being attacked, and it's luck whether or not your are the first victim.
4. We train a lot to practice staying aware during high adrenaline situations. The simple criminal will have tunnel vision with the adrenaline rush they are having. Unless you were the first victim, they most likely wont see an open carrier 10 feet outside their determined route. (this one is my opinion)
5. A lot of you who believe oc will make you a target base that off of what you would do if you were a bad guy. Problem is, the average bad guy is not very smart. We may be opinionated here, but most of us show some intelligence in our arguments.
6. I have not found anything about ccw'rs surprising a bad guy. I have read about ccw'rs deterring an attack just by presenting their weapon. I have read about people stopping a crime by surprising the criminal from behind, in which case, form of carry didn't matter.
7. The common criminal is looking for the easy target. Even the smallest amount of struggling or fighting back can deter a bad guy. They are counting on their victim to give up or freeze. They dont look for strong able bodies that can defend themselves. Deterrence is a great reason to oc.
The only reason I dont like oc is because I feel uncomfortable around the general public. Sound like those who do oc dont have issues. I feel, the sponge society is soaking up all the left wing media garbage anti gun crap....out of sight out of mind works for me. Deterrence is great, but situational awareness is more important in my mind.
I'll address some of your points:
2. The ships were a metaphor. It wasn't meant to be taken literally. It was directed at a (alleged) naval officer.
3. It's called common sense. Like I (and others) have pointed out, stats on who got targeted first aren't available. Also, you don't need to be shot at to be "targeted". You need only to be disarmed. In that case you've just put another gun on the street as well as losing the option fight back on even terms if necessary.
4. Criminals who
aren't deterred by armed targets operate every day. Armored cars, pawn shops, check cashing stores, jewelry stores, banks, etc. that have armed guards on the premesis get robbed every day. In Florida (where I live) it's very easy to buy a firearm for protection yet every day BGs rob bodegas, convenience stores, news stands, etc. even though they know there's a fairly high probability that the person behind the counter may very well have access to a gun.
4(b). Note: You have two #4s in your post. Anyway, you're making the classic and often fatal mistake of underestimating your enemy. I don't need to go any further than that.
5. Again, you are underestimating the opponent. I, on the other hand, prefer to look at worst-case scenarios.
6. Really?? Seriously?? Again, this is where common sense comes into play.
7. Agree for the most part but unfortunately that's not the case 100% of the time. Again, you're treating all BGs as the same and underestimating them. Not all BGs are intimidated by somebody with a gun. Many of them have grown up dodging bullets. For those people it's second nature, and if it's one of those types that you encounter....well let's just say that I believe the pistol on your hip just became a liability.
I'm 47 yrs old. I have never once been in or around an armed robbery or the like. None of my family members have. None of my friends have. In other words, neither myself nor anyone I know has ever been in a situation where OCing would have deterred a crime. Not saying it'll never happen....just saying it's highly unlikely. On the other hand, If I do choose to OC, I'm convinced that the likelyhood of me encountering an agressive and/or ignorant LEO, a jittery citizen (who calls the LEO), or an ani-gun business owner (who calls the LEO or tells me to leave) is pretty good. I don't need the headaches involved in such an encounter, plus I prefer to retain the element of surprise.
Like I said in an earlier post - it's called "camouflage" (or "stealth" if you prefer) and it has all sorts of offensive
and defensive applications. I'm pro-OC. It's just not for me.
