open carry

MHas said:
Be my guest, post anything you want. Talk about your lawn care. Just don't respond to a post about MA. Open carry with irrelevant facts, stats and opinions from another state. Actually you can post what you want just don't expect a serious, educated, thoughtfull response when your post has nothing to do with the conversation. These MA. gun laws are not highly restrictive for law abiding citizens. Only highly restrictive for convicts and felons. I still don't see the problem with this. Maybe it's because I'm a law abiding not a convict. Maybe I should have my brother who's a convict, drug dealer and junky. He's not even allowed to own a low capacity long gun for another 2 years. Our required education was 1-4hr class along with range time, 16 rounds. 6 from revolver 10 from semi-auto pistol. Only 5 yards. I think our target was 6"x8". Some towns require you to present your target along with course certificate. Wether you get your LTC is actually 100% up to the chief of police of the town you reside. The state doesn't. Your issued LTC is valid state wide. After your course completion you have a meeting with the chief, you fill out a form and scan your fingerprints. If the FBI check passes, in 4 weeks you get your unrestricted class A large capacity License to carry. Total cost of course and application $200 small price to pay to be able to purchase, own or posses everything except machine guns. It also permits you to open/concealed carry a loaded handgun. The educational/training course teaches you alot more. You can look it up at massfirearmsschool.com I thought the MA. gun law section was most helpful. They have multiple course. Basice firearms safety, responding to active shoot, they have courses for everything. Only the firearms safety course is required by the state to receive LTC. That course just briefly goes over the topics you mentioned. Sounds like you'd like people to graduate the police academy in order to carry...
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To be honest it's when you asked if I was a liberal... That's when I just started being an A$&.
 
I pay $9.97-$13.99 for 20 rounds of 7.62x51 150gr.

$20 for federal 525 .22 36gr

$23-$27 for 50 .45 acp 230gr fmj


Prices seem on par.

I haven't bought self defense ammo in a long time...my mother in law sends me some every 6 months. It's her way of saying, take care of my daughter.

Sent from my D6616 using USA Carry mobile app
 
MHas said:
You are 100% right. Me being the blue bellied Yankee scum I am, I automatically assumed I was talking to a bunch of toothless trailer trash. I now know the error in my ways. Bless you for showing me the light. I bet most of you are hardworking Americans raising a family who have a love for firearms and carry on a daily basis like my wife and I. It started off just posting my opinion and experiences (what you do in a forum) some person got all pissy and didnt like my opinion and started talking S&$@. From that point I took it apon myself to be an a$& to anyone who responded to my post. For that I appogize. Now for a proper response: I do not think background checks and fingerprints will stop criminal from carrying guns. It will stop criminals from legally purchasing and possessing a firearm. If a criminal wants a gun bad enough they will find one. This is just a measure taken by my state to reduce the accessibility of firearms to criminals. The background checks are done by the FBI not your local PD. As far as wasting resources, I see no waste in making sure that people with criminal backgrounds and mental health issues can't legally purchase or posses large capacity firearms in my statee. I would also like to go back and say I was talking about the process of being able to legally carry a loaded pistol in public. The training/education is for anyone who wants to legally carry a loaded pistol in public. You learn to dos and don't of carrying in public. It teaches those who weren't raised around firearms basic firearm safety. The education also teaches you the gun laws in your state and what to do during an encounter with law enforcement while carrying a loaded pistol. Just like the hunter safety course you have to take to receive a hunting permit of the test you take to get your drivers license. As far as the states with blood running through the street, doesn't apply to anything I've been talking about. All my post are referring to MA.
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I do not think that I have ever seen this level of stupid.
It is shocking...
 
MHas said:
Sorry. I get home at 4 wife leaves at 4:30 I have to cook for, clean up after, bath, entertain and put to bed a 2 year old not to mention the every 10 minutes "I need go potty". She actually likes potty training. The only time I had to read and respond was when Peppa Pig had her attention. I wasn't able to read fully and respond as needed.
1)You can keep and "bear" arms without carrying a loaded firearm in a public area.
2)you are correct. I'm sure when the 2nd Amendment was written they were referring to muskets and flintlock pistols. Not preserving the right for some gangbanger just out of jail to walk in a gun store and legally purchase an auto-pistol with extended mag. No need for a trigger lock. It will be tossed in the river after the drive by . Why not hand out UZIs for Halloween.
3)why put regulations on the drinking age or driving age? Some regulations are necessary when the safety/health of the public is concerned. I'm sure most of the people who are responsible for making such regulations, seeing how they already exist, would agree with me. I'm pretty right wing but if you're going to sit there and tell me you think a convicted rapist, armed robber or drug dealer should be allowed to walk out of prison, into basspro and walk out with a pistol and box of ammo, strap up and go out in public....I will have to disagree. I think that about covers it. If I missed anything sorry. I already apologized for misspelling a word in a previous post.
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The Stupid is EPIC with this one!
 
MHas said:
To be honest it's when you asked if I was a liberal... That's when I just started being an A$&.
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That's cool, I wouldn't take kindly to that question either. I guess it didn't bug you that I said in the same post that you had no real knowledge about the matter at hand (OC) because it has become clear to you through taking a minute to actually listen, that you didn't?

Sounds like you'd like people to graduate the police academy in order to carry...
Click to expand...

Absolutely not. My advice to anybody and everybody is to stay as far away from cops as is humanly possible pretty much for the same reason that you have said you don't open carry - because cops don't necessarily look for criminals, and might be just as likely to beat down a citizen engaging in perfectly legal activity (like OC for instance) as to put down the doughnut long enough to actually go catch a bad guy.

That said, as you'll see in a moment, I have never lived where there were any training requirements to get a permission slip, except in CA where permission slips were in the below-1,000 range for the entire state when I lived there last, but I have made it my business to acquire professional home and personal protection training nonetheless. I highly recommend training. It's a great idea for anyone who carries or owns a gun. I don't like being around careless shooters, but I will offer them the benefit of my knowledge if I see any careless ones at the range before packing up and hittin' the road if they tell me to get lost, mind your own business, whatever. You laid out exactly what I expected to see as far as "training" requirements that your state forces on you, and I gotta tell ya, 16 rounds fired under close supervision teaches nobody nothin' about firearms safety or proficiency. The folks who complete that "training" and remain safe throughout their future lives as carriers, are either a) trained before they ever applied for the permit or get good training subsequent to getting papered, b) grew up around firearms and possessed the basic safety skills taught them by Pop and Grandpop or c) are just some of the luckiest people on the planet, but it's for damned sure that that 1 to 4 hours and 16 rounds doesn't contribute one iota to public or personal safety. Yet you would foist that expensive, time-consuming, meaningless and wholly symbolic system on folks like me, Navy, Chen and anyone else who lives where none of that nonsense is required. Pffft.

So you say that your permission slip laws aren't restrictive? Let me tell you what I'm comparing them to then.

When OC'ing, the same applies for me as applies for Chen in WA State - Get up, get dressed, strap up and go about my day - The End. No permit to buy the gun I'm carrying, nor to carry the gun I'm carrying. Buying is a simple NICS check, unless I buy from a private party, in which case, it's a simple handshake.

I still keep a permission slip because it eliminates a technical violation of the federal gun free zone BS if I'm within 1,000 feet of a school. Here's the restrictions for that:

1) Drive to the Sheriff's Office.
2) Say hi to the nice lady behind the counter, tell her I'd like to renew my pistol permit.
3) Plop down $15 per year in any 1-year increment up to five that I choose.
4) Sign the permission slip form in triplicate - one for me, one for Montgomery, and one stays at the Sheriff's office.
5) While I'm signing, the nice lady is running a NICS check.
6) Thank the nice lady and drive back home.

I've been in this state for 23 years and lived in three counties. The Sheriff sets the price, and the $15 bucks I pay here is right in the middle between the $10 bucks in the first county we lived in, and the $20 in the second. The only time it took me more than two or three minutes at the Sheriff's Office was the first time, and it took me four or five days that time only because I hadn't received my plastic permanent Driver's License in the mail before I went to apply for my permission slip. The same day it came in the mail was the same day I got my permission slip. Might've been four or five times since then that someone was ahead of me in line that it took me five to 10 minutes to complete the whole shebang.

This is a "shall issue" state. Sheriff Taylor or Deputy Fife must have good reason to deny someone the right to carry, and they are prohibited by statute from slapping a disorderly conduct or other phony charge on anyone simply for open carrying.

If this state wants my fingerprints, they're going to have to arrest me, and since I am every bit as much a law abiding citizen as you say you are, that ain't happenin'.

The fact that you're OK with the highly-restrictive process for getting papered in MA doesn't mitigate the fact that it is highly-restrictive. For the life of me I will never understand how or why people are OK with their God-given rights being reduced to a time-consuming and expensive process of asking and acquiring permission to exercise them as only a state-authorized privilege, but if you say you're OK with it, who am I to argue? Just keep that crap up there in Blue Land, and leave us down here in Blues Land to exercise our liberties relatively free from government intrusion.

Blues
 
BluesStringer said:
That's cool, I wouldn't take kindly to that question either. I guess it didn't bug you that I said in the same post that you had no real knowledge about the matter at hand (OC) because it has become clear to you through taking a minute to actually listen, that you didn't?



Absolutely not. My advice to anybody and everybody is to stay as far away from cops as is humanly possible pretty much for the same reason that you have said you don't open carry - because cops don't necessarily look for criminals, and might be just as likely to beat down a citizen engaging in perfectly legal activity (like OC for instance) as to put down the doughnut long enough to actually go catch a bad guy.

That said, as you'll see in a moment, I have never lived where there were any training requirements to get a permission slip, except in CA where permission slips were in the below-1,000 range for the entire state when I lived there last, but I have made it my business to acquire professional home and personal protection training nonetheless. I highly recommend training. It's a great idea for anyone who carries or owns a gun. I don't like being around careless shooters, but I will offer them the benefit of my knowledge if I see any careless ones at the range before packing up and hittin' the road if they tell me to get lost, mind your own business, whatever. You laid out exactly what I expected to see as far as "training" requirements that your state forces on you, and I gotta tell ya, 16 rounds fired under close supervision teaches nobody nothin' about firearms safety or proficiency. The folks who complete that "training" and remain safe throughout their future lives as carriers, are either a) trained before they ever applied for the permit or get good training subsequent to getting papered, b) grew up around firearms and possessed the basic safety skills taught them by Pop and Grandpop or c) are just some of the luckiest people on the planet, but it's for damned sure that that 1 to 4 hours and 16 rounds doesn't contribute one iota to public or personal safety. Yet you would foist that expensive, time-consuming, meaningless and wholly symbolic system on folks like me, Navy, Chen and anyone else who lives where none of that nonsense is required. Pffft.

So you say that your permission slip laws aren't restrictive? Let me tell you what I'm comparing them to then.

When OC'ing, the same applies for me as applies for Chen in WA State - Get up, get dressed, strap up and go about my day - The End. No permit to buy the gun I'm carrying, nor to carry the gun I'm carrying. Buying is a simple NICS check, unless I buy from a private party, in which case, it's a simple handshake.

I still keep a permission slip because it eliminates a technical violation of the federal gun free zone BS if I'm within 1,000 feet of a school. Here's the restrictions for that:

1) Drive to the Sheriff's Office.
2) Say hi to the nice lady behind the counter, tell her I'd like to renew my pistol permit.
3) Plop down $15 per year in any 1-year increment up to five that I choose.
4) Sign the permission slip form in triplicate - one for me, one for Montgomery, and one stays at the Sheriff's office.
5) While I'm signing, the nice lady is running a NICS check.
6) Thank the nice lady and drive back home.

I've been in this state for 23 years and lived in three counties. The Sheriff sets the price, and the $15 bucks I pay here is right in the middle between the $10 bucks in the first county we lived in, and the $20 in the second. The only time it took me more than two or three minutes at the Sheriff's Office was the first time, and it took me four or five days that time only because I hadn't received my plastic permanent Driver's License in the mail before I went to apply for my permission slip. The same day it came in the mail was the same day I got my permission slip. Might've been four or five times since then that someone was ahead of me in line that it took me five to 10 minutes to complete the whole shebang.

This is a "shall issue" state. Sheriff Taylor or Deputy Fife must have good reason to deny someone the right to carry, and they are prohibited by statute from slapping a disorderly conduct or other phony charge on anyone simply for open carrying.

If this state wants my fingerprints, they're going to have to arrest me, and since I am every bit as much a law abiding citizen as you say you are, that ain't happenin'.

The fact that you're OK with the highly-restrictive process for getting papered in MA doesn't mitigate the fact that it is highly-restrictive. For the life of me I will never understand how or why people are OK with their God-given rights being reduced to a time-consuming and expensive process of asking and acquiring permission to exercise them as only a state-authorized privilege, but if you say you're OK with it, who am I to argue? Just keep that crap up there in Blue Land, and leave us down here in Blues Land to exercise our liberties relatively free from government intrusion.

Blues
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laying in bed last night i did think of a restriction in MA. I'm not a fan of. the fact you cannot carry a loaded long gun in public unless actively engaging in the act of hunting or walking to of from such activity. i feel if i can walk around with a loaded pistol and extra mags on my belt why shouldn't i be allowed to carry my 12 ga in a sling?
 
MHas said:
What state are you in? Unless you have an hour to waste while under police investigation in response to a call for "a man with a gun" MA is not open carry friendly. You will also be forced to the ground at gunpoint upon police arrival LTC or not. I'd love to OC instead of constantly making sure my sidearm is not exposed. Not to mention the discomfort from inside wasteband holsters.
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So?
Mass cops think MWAG calls are great game and fun for everyone. They think their actions will discourage people from doing what is legal.

Why not play their game? Open carry, be prepared for the consequences. Get a friend to call the police and report you as an open carrier (being careful NOT to allege any illegality just a 'I just want the cops to know' kind of call. Wait for them to call. Be cooperative. Wait an hour and do it again.
Do it again the next day and the next week.


See who gets tired of 'playing stupid games' first. After responding a half dozen or a dozen times I'll wager they won't think it's quite the game as they did before.
 
MHas said:
laying in bed last night i did think of a restriction in MA. I'm not a fan of. the fact you cannot carry a loaded long gun in public unless actively engaging in the act of hunting or walking to of from such activity. i feel if i can walk around with a loaded pistol and extra mags on my belt why shouldn't i be allowed to carry my 12 ga in a sling?
Click to expand...
The real question I see is why would anyone have to be "allowed" in the first place?

Please allow me to use an example....
Everything in nature has some kind of weapon for self defense. Cats and dogs have teeth and claws. Cows have horns. Etc.. Even plants have thorns. And people have brains that invent better things, guns/knives, than teeth or claws.

So why is it necessary to ask for permission to have/be able to use the very necessary weapons to use for self defense?

Even the founding fathers understood the value of a gun for defense of self and/or defense of a way of life when they put the 2nd Amendment into the Bill of Rights. Please understand (and this distinction is vital to know) the 2nd Amendment is NOT a statement of what the government "allows" us to do but it is a statement.... "shall not be infringed".... that the government shall not restrict or control (infringe upon) the right to keep and bear arms.

So why are we at a point where we have to ask permission from the government to be "allowed" to keep and bear arms? Because the government has found a way to be in control of us by controlling our right to keep and bear through the simple method of convincing us we must ask permission to be "allowed"....
 
Bikenut said:
The real question I see is why would anyone have to be "allowed" in the first place?

Please allow me to use an example....
Everything in nature has some kind of weapon for self defense. Cats and dogs have teeth and claws. Cows have horns. Etc.. Even plants have thorns. And people have brains that invent better things, guns/knives, than teeth or claws.

So why is it necessary to ask for permission to have/be able to use the very necessary weapons to use for self defense?

Even the founding fathers understood the value of a gun for defense of self and/or defense of a way of life when they put the 2nd Amendment into the Bill of Rights. Please understand (and this distinction is vital to know) the 2nd Amendment is NOT a statement of what the government "allows" us to do but it is a statement.... "shall not be infringed".... that the government shall not restrict or control (infringe upon) the right to keep and bear arms.

So why are we at a point where we have to ask permission from the government to be "allowed" to keep and bear arms? Because the government has found a way to be in control of us by controlling our right to keep and bear through the simple method of convincing us we must ask permission to be "allowed"....
Click to expand...

Like Blues said in the other thread, the government only controls the willing.

Sent from my D6616 using USA Carry mobile app
 
Bikenut said:
MHas said:
laying in bed last night i did think of a restriction in MA. I'm not a fan of. the fact you cannot carry a loaded long gun in public unless actively engaging in the act of hunting or walking to of from such activity. i feel if i can walk around with a loaded pistol and extra mags on my belt why shouldn't i be allowed to carry my 12 ga in a sling?
Click to expand...

The real question I see is why would anyone have to be "allowed" in the first place?

Please allow me to use an example....
Everything in nature has some kind of weapon for self defense. Cats and dogs have teeth and claws. Cows have horns. Etc.. Even plants have thorns. And people have brains that invent better things, guns/knives, than teeth or claws.

So why is it necessary to ask for permission to have/be able to use the very necessary weapons to use for self defense?

Even the founding fathers understood the value of a gun for defense of self and/or defense of a way of life when they put the 2nd Amendment into the Bill of Rights. Please understand (and this distinction is vital to know) the 2nd Amendment is NOT a statement of what the government "allows" us to do but it is a statement.... "shall not be infringed".... that the government shall not restrict or control (infringe upon) the right to keep and bear arms.

So why are we at a point where we have to ask permission from the government to be "allowed" to keep and bear arms? Because the government has found a way to be in control of us by controlling our right to keep and bear through the simple method of convincing us we must ask permission to be "allowed"....
Click to expand...

I declined to reply to his post because I'm pretty sure it was more bait to get us rednecks to stand up for the premise of OC'ing long guns so he could post some more dismissive blather. I could be wrong, and MHas is welcome to correct me if I am, but nothing in his early posts in this thread would suggest that he would *really* like to OC a long gun, and so I took the above post as being not-so-thinly-veiled innuendo about more "do you just want people to see your big gun" crap.

Dude's been all over the place. First he says he'd like to OC, and even that he'd like to get arrested so he could sue and buy more firearms. Just three posts later in the thread the next day he's saying that he doesn't want anyone to know he's carrying and starting to spout all the tired ol' myths that we deal with every few days around here (shot first, taken down by cops - yada yada yada). He ended that post with what prompted my first reply by saying, "Open carry is best left for open carry events where those that choose to can exercise their rights. Other then that I think open carry just makes you a target for bad guys, police and liberals."

In light of his rather malleable attitude towards open carry, I have a hard time taking seriously anything he says on the positive side of the issue because it seems forced, or possibly bait-like, like looking for something he can use either here or in his own mind to justify his immediate jump to "toothless redneck trailer trash" because of having his ignorance of the issue questioned and/or corrected.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Blues
 
Fallschirmjäger said:
So?
Mass cops think MWAG calls are great game and fun for everyone. They think their actions will discourage people from doing what is legal.

Why not play their game? Open carry, be prepared for the consequences. Get a friend to call the police and report you as an open carrier (being careful NOT to allege any illegality just a 'I just want the cops to know' kind of call. Wait for them to call. Be cooperative. Wait an hour and do it again.
Do it again the next day and the next week.


See who gets tired of 'playing stupid games' first. After responding a half dozen or a dozen times I'll wager they won't think it's quite the game as they did before.
Click to expand...

If I had time I would. If I'm not at work I'm watching my 2 year old so my wife can work. I was thinking about it tho. Maybe they'll actually arrest me and I can collect a lovely lawsuit settlement for wrongful arrest.
 
BluesStringer said:
I declined to reply to his post because I'm pretty sure it was more bait to get us rednecks to stand up for the premise of OC'ing long guns so he could post some more dismissive blather. I could be wrong, and MHas is welcome to correct me if I am, but nothing in his early posts in this thread would suggest that he would *really* like to OC a long gun, and so I took the above post as being not-so-thinly-veiled innuendo about more "do you just want people to see your big gun" crap.

Dude's been all over the place. First he says he'd like to OC, and even that he'd like to get arrested so he could sue and buy more firearms. Just three posts later in the thread the next day he's saying that he doesn't want anyone to know he's carrying and starting to spout all the tired ol' myths that we deal with every few days around here (shot first, taken down by cops - yada yada yada). He ended that post with what prompted my first reply by saying, "Open carry is best left for open carry events where those that choose to can exercise their rights. Other then that I think open carry just makes you a target for bad guys, police and liberals."

In light of his rather malleable attitude towards open carry, I have a hard time taking seriously anything he says on the positive side of the issue because it seems forced, or possibly bait-like, like looking for something he can use either here or in his own mind to justify his immediate jump to "toothless redneck trailer trash" because of having his ignorance of the issue questioned and/or corrected.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Blues
Click to expand...
First off, don't you feel that ones opinion should be subject to change when introduced to new knowledge, facts, stats and other people's thoughts? The more I think about it the more I think you guys are right. There should be no restrictions on who can carry a loaded firearm in public. Everyone should have loaded handguns hanging off their belts. Good guys, bad guys, law enforcement... It'll be just like the Wild West. This worked out great in the 1800s. Secondly, I would say that a person who thinks one shouldn't be entitled to change there point of view and opinion based on new evidence and facts is more ignorant than a person who voiced their opinion, learned new things, heard others opinions and was slightly persuaded to understand the other sides point of view.
 
I didn't say I'd like to OC my shotgun I just said I feel I should be allowed by law to. Walking around with a loaded shotgun isn't a practical self defense option.
 
MHas said:
Everyone should have loaded handguns hanging off their belts. Good guys, bad guys, law enforcement... It'll be just like the Wild West.
Click to expand...

It's snarky comments like these that leads us to believe the leopard's spots have not changed colors.
 
MHas said:
If I had time I would. If I'm not at work I'm watching my 2 year old so my wife can work. I was thinking about it tho. Maybe they'll actually arrest me and I can collect a lovely lawsuit settlement for wrongful arrest.
Click to expand...
Doubtful. Law enforcement is quite aware that they can be sued for their actions and that the best way to avoid consequences is to phone the local magistrate and have that magistrate issue a telephonic warrant for the arrest.
The LEO is covered because 'it wasn't his idea, it was the judges' and the judge is covered by judicial immunity.
 
MHas said:
First off, don't you feel that ones opinion should be subject to change when introduced to new knowledge, facts, stats and other people's thoughts? The more I think about it the more I think you guys are right. There should be no restrictions on who can carry a loaded firearm in public. Everyone should have loaded handguns hanging off their belts. Good guys, bad guys, law enforcement... It'll be just like the Wild West. This worked out great in the 1800s. Secondly, I would say that a person who thinks one shouldn't be entitled to change there point of view and opinion based on new evidence and facts is more ignorant than a person who voiced their opinion, learned new things, heard others opinions and was slightly persuaded to understand the other sides point of view.
Click to expand...

Do you really think you're fooling anybody with this BS? You're anti-OC. As such, you have no business in this sub-forum. This doesn't have to be an echo-chamber all in favor of OC, but it is decidedly not here for antis to come in just to stir the pot. The only time you'll find one of us saying a cross or smart ass word in the concealed carry sub-forum is when someone spews a bunch of lies and myths about OC just like you did in this thread. Otherwise, there are valid pros and cons to be discussed in either forum, but that ship has sailed for you. You're an anti-OC'er. Get lost.

Blues
 
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