Link RemovedThis thread is so done.
My "cite" is the 2nd Amendment...... (and all the other parts of the BOR , including the rights not enumerated there) Yes, I know it isnt between me and other people, it is between us and the Govt..... YET, everything YOU use as your examples point to "LAWS" that have something to do with firearms as part of your arguments.... The BOR enumerates certain RIGHTS which we all have, and they are ours no matter where we are..... and the Govt is prohibited (yeah right, that has worked out well hasnt it?) from having any laws that infringe on those RIGHTS. Yet here you are, enabling that very same govt through YOUR BACKDOOR/ SIDEWAYS way of enforcing laws that are prohibited in the first place..... By using "trespass" as an excuse, you have gotten the govt involved and are even championing them to infringe.... And I am the one who is wrong? I swear there arent but a VERY TINY MINORITY of people on this forum who knows much at all about rights, and YOU arent one of them....One thing is glaringly apparent Axe... the lack of cites and/or links to facts that prove your argument.
Got cites and/or links to proof that exercising the right to bear arms by... sneaking... in a gun doesn't infringe upon the property owner's right to control his property when a property owner uses a no guns rule as a way of exercising that right?
Got cites? Got links?
Edited to add:
Here is a link and a cite:
Infringe | Define Infringe at Dictionary.com
in·fringe
[in-frinj] Show IPA
verb (used with object), in·fringed, in·fring·ing.
1. to commit a breach or infraction of; violate or transgress: to infringe a copyright; to infringe a rule.
verb (used without object), in·fringed, in·fring·ing.
2. to encroach or trespass (usually followed by on or upon ): Don't infringe on his privacy.
And this also:
World English Dictionary
infringe (ɪnˈfrɪndʒ)
— vb
1. ( tr ) to violate or break (a law, an agreement, etc)
2. ( intr; foll by on or upon ) to encroach or trespass
Underline added by me...
You are aware that when you enter private property you have agreed, tacitly with the act of entering but you still agreed, to the terms and conditions the owner put upon gaining his permission to enter. Doesn't matter if the owner knows you have broken the agreement or never agreed to it in the first place because you were.... sneaking... your gun in.
My "cite" is the 2nd Amendment...... (and all the other parts of the BOR , including the rights not enumerated there) Yes, I know it isnt between me and other people, it is between us and the Govt..... YET, everything YOU use as your examples point to "LAWS" that have something to do with firearms as part of your arguments.... The BOR enumerates certain RIGHTS which we all have, and they are ours no matter where we are..... and the Govt is prohibited (yeah right, that has worked out well hasnt it?) from having any laws that infringe on those RIGHTS. Yet here you are, enabling that very same govt through YOUR BACKDOOR/ SIDEWAYS way of enforcing laws that are prohibited in the first place..... By using "trespass" as an excuse, you have gotten the govt involved and are even championing them to infringe.... And I am the one who is wrong? I swear there arent but a VERY TINY MINORITY of people on this forum who knows much at all about rights, and YOU arent one of them....
The ONLY way you can claim my rights do not exist on "your land" is to ADMIT that YOU would have COMPLETE 100% NOTHING held back power over ALL of my rights... PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have this POWER (just because you own some land) that you can with impunity infringe on ANY of my rights, even when I have not done anything to you other than exist "on" your property at that moment... SHOW ME PROOF that you have this "property owners power" that you claim by showing me how you can rape me or anyone of my family (if they are with me) or enslave me, or kill me (or infringe on any of my many other rights)for nothing more than standing across a "property line"Some states require trespass charges be funneled through the police department, other states allow citizens to press trespass charges against other citizens. The laws aren't us obeying the government, it's an obligation sometimes, or completely not involved in other times. The Constitution recognizes Rights the government can't infringe on. It says nothing about you keeping your Rights on MY land.
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Really? The 2nd Amendment recognizes the right to... sneak... a gun onto/into private property where the owner has denied permission to enter to people who bear arms as long as the owner doesn't know the person is.... sneaking... the gun in? Where does it say that?My "cite" is the 2nd Amendment...... (and all the other parts of the BOR , including the rights not enumerated there) Yes, I know it isnt between me and other people, it is between us and the Govt..... YET, everything YOU use as your examples point to "LAWS" that have something to do with firearms as part of your arguments.... The BOR enumerates certain RIGHTS which we all have, and they are ours no matter where we are..... and the Govt is prohibited (yeah right, that has worked out well hasnt it?) from having any laws that infringe on those RIGHTS. Yet here you are, enabling that very same govt through YOUR BACKDOOR/ SIDEWAYS way of enforcing laws that are prohibited in the first place..... By using "trespass" as an excuse, you have gotten the govt involved and are even championing them to infringe.... And I am the one who is wrong? I swear there arent but a VERY TINY MINORITY of people on this forum who knows much at all about rights, and YOU arent one of them....
Axe... will you please stop trying to use the leftist tactic of sensationalizing the issue with emotion charged wording? It's not helping your credibility.The ONLY way you can claim my rights do not exist on "your land" is to ADMIT that YOU would have COMPLETE 100% NOTHING held back power over ALL of my rights... PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have this POWER (just because you own some land) that you can with impunity infringe on ANY of my rights, even when I have not done anything to you other than exist "on" your property at that moment... SHOW ME PROOF that you have this "property owners power" that you claim by showing me how you can rape me or anyone of my family (if they are with me) or enslave me, or kill me (or infringe on any of my many other rights)for nothing more than standing across a "property line"
YOU CLAIM to have power over one very specific right, but none of the others, Why is that? what is so special about that right compared to ALL OF THE OTHER ONES?
I've been gone for a while and I've undergone major surgery that didn't go well. We've both more than spoken our peace and I'd say it's plainly obvious that you and I aren't going to agree. I see no point in us rehashing already stated arguments or hurling any more insults, and my current condition leaves with no desire to. As far as I'm concerned we've come to an impasse and there is no point in further discussion. But I never hold mere disagreement as a personal affront or reason for any grudge, so I extend you my best.*sigh* absolutely NOTHING you have written has disproven anything I have... however, you have greatly gone beyond (because you refuse to actually read what I write or comprehend it) because you KEEP ACCUSING ME of things I have never said (by giving completely irrelevant examples that my argument has absolutely NOTHING to do with)
SHOW ME PROOF that you have this "property owners power" that you claim by showing me how you can rape me or anyone of my family (if they are with me) or enslave me, or kill me
Foil wrapped to tight?
Link Removed
I was simply SHOWING ALL OF YOU "PROPERTY RIGHTERS" what YOU ALL actually ARE claiming... nothing more.... if you cannot handle the truth of what you claim, and cannot refute my argument, then YOU HAVE LOST THE ARGUMENT AND HAVE BEEN PROVEN WRONG.....Axe... will you please stop trying to use the leftist tactic of sensationalizing the issue with emotion charged wording? It's not helping your credibility.
The property owner has the right to control who uses his property. The property owner has 100% nothing held back power to deny a person permission to enter/remain on his property. Once a person has been denied entry everything about that person has been denied entry.. everything... including the person's rights because the rights go with the person. There is no need to talk about rape, enslavement, or killing.
I was simply SHOWING ALL OF YOU "PROPERTY RIGHTERS" what YOU ALL actually ARE claiming... nothing more.... if you cannot handle the truth of what you claim, and cannot refute my argument, then YOU HAVE LOST THE ARGUMENT AND HAVE BEEN PROVEN WRONG.....
Actually what you were doing is substituting emotion for facts... a tactic favored by those who have lost the argument because they have nothing to substantiate their argument.I was simply SHOWING ALL OF YOU "PROPERTY RIGHTERS" what YOU ALL actually ARE claiming... nothing more.... if you cannot handle the truth of what you claim, and cannot refute my argument, then YOU HAVE LOST THE ARGUMENT AND HAVE BEEN PROVEN WRONG.....Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
Axe... will you please stop trying to use the leftist tactic of sensationalizing the issue with emotion charged wording? It's not helping your credibility.
The property owner has the right to control who uses his property. The property owner has 100% nothing held back power to deny a person permission to enter/remain on his property. Once a person has been denied entry everything about that person has been denied entry.. everything... including the person's rights because the rights go with the person. There is no need to talk about rape, enslavement, or killing.
Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
-snip-
The property owner has the right to control who uses his property. The property owner has 100% nothing held back power to deny a person permission to enter/remain on his property. Once a person has been denied entry everything about that person has been denied entry.. everything... including the person's rights because the rights go with the person.-snip-
You have absolutely nothing to disprove anything I have written, so you post an idiotic picture that doesnt apply to the subject we are discussing.... Is that the best you have? IF these "powers" of being able to DENY someone of their natural rights exist, WHY do you "property righters" only claim that "power" over ONE of those rights and not any of the others? ANSWER THE FUKIN QUESTION or just go away.....
i don't feed trolls. You lost ALL credibility and proved the purpose of your rant when you stared in with property owners raping and enslaving you and your family. Sorry pal. You kicked it up a notch on this one, even for you.
I'm well aware that different States have different laws that govern what constitutes "notification" yet "notification" means either being notified that bringing in a gun will be considered trespass or being asked to leave because a person trespassed by bringing in a gun. Both still mean that bringing in the gun IS ... trespass. The only difference being what the legal definition of "notification" is.
Please note ...
Isn't trespassing unlawful making entering against the property owner's no guns rule entering unlawfully?
I still maintain that the act of trespass occurs when the person carries the gun into/onto property that has a no guns rule... "being asked to leave" would be having been caught in the act of trespass. And the law(s) are what attach penalties to having trespassed/caught in the act of trespass. If a State has laws that define what constitutes "notification" then that still apples to the act of trespass itself.
Also..
Ummm... isn't the property owner telling you that you personally as an individual are not welcome on his property as long as you are carrying a gun? And that he is removing your permission to be on the property as long as you are carrying a gun? In short the owner isn't removing permission for a gun to be on/in his property... he is removing his permission for you as a person because you are carrying a gun.
If it is not against the law I carry concealed no matter what sign is posted. The only way my gun will be seen is if I have to use it. In my state the signs mean nothing other than if you get caught they can ask you to leave. I know some of you live in more complicated places.