Christians: This is why the atheists here don't believe you

[Oldgrunt]

Do you even read what you respond to? I was talking about Romans 1 please note in the quote above I explicitly exempted taking the mark from my claim that no where in the Bible does it say you are without hope while you are still alive.

Perhaps you need to rethink actually paying attention to what was said instead of being all worried about how you’re going to make yourself sound like the wise old Bible scholar that you aren’t

Yeah, I do read and, from what I have read, you are in left field again. I don't try to be the "wise old Bible scholar" but I think I can keep up with you. You have resorted to name calling to try to stress your point and seem quite upset that your point isn't received as the gospel. Having Biblical discussions on here was fun at one time and scripture was passed along to help others in their search for God. Now, just the opposite is happening.The Bible says in Titus 3:9, "But avoid foolish questions and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law, for they are unprofitable and vain." It would be much simpler to accept the Bible for what it says than to try and put your own spin on it. Having disagreements is fine but there are resolutions to them without insults.

 

[BC1]

I absolutely agree.



There certainly is. His anger is understandable, but that does not mean that spewing hate, lies, or insults is justified. Of course, that goes for anyone, not just Ringo.




I've never wondered that, but I'd bet that some theists would be upset that the state defined "god" as a belief. Many theists (Christians and Muslims, for example) believe that their god is an entity, not simply a belief.

Anyway, I don't believe that humans, with our incomplete understanding of the universe and limited ability to even perceive what's around us, are entirely capable of understanding what a god might be. That is the primary root of the reason that I am an atheist. The multiple and inconsistent definitions of what a "god" is leave such a large hole that has yet to be filled, that I simply don't believe that any particular "god" exists.

Wouldn't that be an agnostic instead of atheist? Sounds similar to Einstein.
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Einstein considered himself an agnostic as opposed to an atheist. He's quoted as saying it was due to "an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."

 

[Gregmm6]

Wouldn't that be an agnostic instead of atheist? Sounds similar to Einstein.
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Einstein considered himself an agnostic as opposed to an atheist. He's quoted as saying it was due to "an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."

It's both agnostic and atheist.

 

[Saltheart Foamfollower]

In my experience, agnostics are not as hostile to Christians as atheists are. My feeling has been that if someone finds that Christianity "speaks" to them, then good for them.

It doesn't speak to me, so why abuse me for that.

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[Saltheart Foamfollower]

Agnostic*vs.*atheist. An*atheist*lacks faith in God, believes there is no god, or lacks awareness of gods. An*agnostic*either believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a god or is noncommittal on the issue. The*difference*may seem small, but*atheism*and agnosticism are actually vastly different worldviews.



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[Gregmm6]

Agnostic*vs.*atheist. An*atheist*lacks faith in God, believes there is no god, or lacks awareness of gods. An*agnostic*either believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a god or is noncommittal on the issue. The*difference*may seem small, but*atheism*and agnosticism are actually vastly different worldviews.



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They certainly are different. What's also important to understand is that they're not mutually exclusive. One can be both atheist and agnostic.

 

[Saltheart Foamfollower]

They certainly are different. What's also important to understand is that they're not mutually exclusive. One can be both atheist and agnostic.

I respectfully disagree. They are two different viewpoints.

 

[Gregmm6]

I respectfully disagree. They are two different viewpoints.

I am both atheist and agnostic. I do not believe that a god exists, thus I am atheist. I do not believe that human beings can even know whether a god positively exists, thus I am agnostic.

Atheism is simply the state of not being theist. Agnosticism is simply the state of not being gnostic. There is no reason that one must be either gnostic or theist. One can hold neither one of those beliefs.


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[Eidolon]

Somewhere along the line we seem to have lost track of my original point in starting this thread, let me revisit it.


Let’s assume for a second that Ringo is correct, I do believe that everyone on the planet has their last chance at getting saved. So I have to concede that there is a place (apart from taking the Mark) where you can be still alive and beyond hope of redemption.


That said, it is not my place as a Christian to ever assume that any human being that is still alive has reached that point.


Now this is how that ties into my original point. I see “believers” over and over again judging the non believers and when I say Judge I mean Krino which is the Greek word that we get Judge from in Matthew 7 and it means to conclude , condemn , damn, degree and make a final judgment (That isn’t yours to make) on someone.


Religious tradition holds that the Pharisees believed that the only reason God even made gentiles was to fuel the fires of Hell and some of you “Christians” here that think you’re oh so superior to the atheists and agnostics (and really anyone who isn’t a Christian) are just as bad.


If your theology is OK with a Christian telling ANYONE “I can’t wait till you go to hell.” There’s a problem with your theology!!!!!!!! The Bible asks How can you tell me that you love God who you can’t see when you hate your brother who you can see ( 1st John 4:20 Eidolon English Translation) and I DARE any one of you to tell me that you can gleefully condemn ANYONE ON THIS PLANET to the pit with “love” in your heart. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks


You “Christians” sit here and pat each other on the back about what great believers you all are and how superior you are to those godless atheists are A BUNCH OF BLIND GUIDES and you're so blind you don’t even see it.

THAT WAS MY ORIGINAL POINT

 

[Saltheart Foamfollower]

I am both atheist and agnostic. I do not believe that a god exists, thus I am atheist. I do not believe that human beings can even know whether a god positively exists, thus I am agnostic.

Atheism is simply the state of not being theist. Agnosticism is simply the state of not being gnostic. There is no reason that one must be either gnostic or theist. One can hold neither one of those beliefs.


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I stand corrected sir. Thank you for explaining that so I was able to understand your viewpoint better.

 

[Gregmm6]

I stand corrected sir. Thank you for explaining that so I was able to understand your viewpoint better.

No problem. It's a very common misconception.

You're right in saying that agnosticism and atheism are different. The reason that they are different, though, is that they're responses to 2 different questions. Thus, one person can be both atheist and agnostic. Your open-mindedness and willingness to listen to the arguments of others is an uncommon and refreshing thing to see around these parts.

 

[Saltheart Foamfollower]

Thank you Gregmm6. I try to be polite, and unlike a lot of internet posters, I don't claim to always be right. I try to treat others with respect. But whem they act like ashholes, I treat them like ashholes.

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[CharlesMorrison]

Atheist are minions of Satan, whether they realize it or not. They are too blind to see. And too dumb to listen.

Kinda like your stance on National Reciprocity....

Go figure!

 

[Saltheart Foamfollower]

C'mon Chuck. This is a different topic. Try to keep up.

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[BluesStringer]

For a couple of years I kept up with the religious threads here. Didn't comment a lot, but did read 'em daily. For maybe the last ~seven or eight months though, I just avoid 'em. For me, it's mostly because of the vitriol coming from the most prolific posters among the atheists, but it's also because the response to them is quite often equally vitriolic, and I don't get out of these threads what piqued my interest in the first place - that being, wanting to learn more about the love of Christ. So for the most part, I go elsewhere now for that education and Christian fellowship.

I get what Eidolon is saying, but I'm not thrilled about how he's saying it anymore than I am about how any other vitriolic, frustrated, judgmental, superior(ish) Christian poster expresses themselves. I don't hate nogods or anyone else, nor would I ever, under any circumstances, tell him to go to Hell, or wish for him to, and I don't get that Ringo or whomever else is included in Eidolon's excoriations ever would either. I can't imagine anything that Ringo could say that would prompt me to speak of his faith by putting the word "Christian" in quotation marks. None of us are perfect. All of us falter. None of us are worthy to judge each others' faith as valid or invalid, and if one of us sees what we perceive to be a faltering of faith/interpretation/understanding/adherence, it becomes our obligation to teach, not judge. Even at times when I don't necessarily agree with someone's take on a given bit of scripture, if they're presenting it in a way as to draw in new adherents, or buttress/build upon the faith of an already-saved brother or sister, I'm not going to hammer them as a hypocrite or question the sincerity of their belief in their take. Most conflicting understandings that are being discussed calmly and amongst people really and truly interested in saving as many souls as they can before their time is up, drives me to study on whatever they're discussing, not get angry or judgmental towards the party or parties who don't understand it "my" way.

As far as this thread goes, I don't know....I guess if I thought it important to influence a brother or sister Christian towards more love than what they're giving, I'd show 'em more love than what they're giving and lead by example. Coming on angry/frustrated/judgmental/pushy doesn't work on atheists any better'n it works on fellow Christians, at least not than this fellow Christian, so this is where I'll bow out after suggesting that everyone chill/teach/model/exemplify/Believe/love to the greatest extent possible. If that's what y'all are doing here in this thread, then more power to ya. Who am I to judge?

Blues

 

[Farmhood]

This does prompt me to read more....and that is a good thing. It seems difficult for some to explain what they believe...most times they want to share what they do not believe about what others believe. I respect the opinions but if someone asks your favorite color and you only attack colors that are not your favorite So this was informative!
http://atheists.org/convention2014/code-of-conduct

sinful nature is always hostile to God....

 

[Ringo]

I can't find any commentary that supports your interpretation Not in The Spirit Filled Life study Bible not in the MacArthur Study Bible, Not in David Gusick's commentaries on Romans 1 at BLB.

You “Christians” sit here and pat each other on the back about what great believers you all are and how superior you are to those godless atheists are A BUNCH OF BLIND GUIDES and you're so blind you don’t even see it.

Too few Christians actually study their Bibles in order to test themselves to see if they are on the right path or not. Mostly they're too busy to spend time on the things that have eternal consequences. They would rather believe what men have to say ABOUT the Bible than to read it for themselves. In doing so they slide into error, then into heresy and eventually into apostasy. Much of the Church of Laodicea today will not see the truth; they will not accept that they are in error; they will continue to "worship God" in the manner they feel most comfortable with. Many times Jesus said to the disciples "Take heed that no man deceive you." Look around you. Turn on your television and watch the antics on so-called Christian channels. Apostasy is here; it is everywhere. But the question is, are you involved?


Life Is Good. :victory:

 

[Eidolon]

What I find really interesting is that 23 pages into this I’ve got people accusing me of heresy, and following false teaching and questioning if I’m a Christian but you know what I don’t have?
Not a one of you has stepped up and said “No, you’re wrong. We don’t do that. “ None of you are denying that you treat the very people that Jesus sent you to carry the Gospel to as beneath you and people that you can’t wait to see get theirs

 

[Ringo]

What I find really interesting is that 23 pages into this I’ve got people accusing me of heresy, and following false teaching and questioning if I’m a Christian but you know what I don’t have?
Not a one of you has stepped up and said “No, you’re wrong. We don’t do that. “ None of you are denying that you treat the very people that Jesus sent you to carry the Gospel to as beneath you and people that you can’t wait to see get theirs

No, you're wrong. You we're not accused, you were questioned. Go back and read the majority of your own posts, it's more than obvious that the only truth that you accept is the truth that you need it to be. You seem to have a serious problem with reading comprehension which is most likely the reason explaining your confusion, inferiority complex, and constant whining.

Life Is Good. :victory:

~ There Is A Way That Seems Right To A Man, But Its End Is The Way Of Death ~​

 

[Farmhood]

Just another Barry follower! "'The organizer's first job is to*create the issues or problems,' and 'organizations must be based on many issues.' The organizer 'must first*rub raw the resentments of the people*of the community;*fan the latent hostilities*of many of the people to the point of overt expression. He must*search out controversy*and issues, rather than avoid them, for unless there is controversy people are not concerned enough to act. . . . An organizer must*stir up dissatisfaction*and discontent.'"

sinful nature is always hostile to God....