Arguing with a liberal about Open and Concealed Carry

[BluesStringer]

I think it was Jeff Cooper who said it best.... "An armed society is a polite society".

Interesting slogan. Too bad some here don't understand it at all. I wonder what Mr. Cooper would've thought about this kind of "politeness."

I wouldn't piss on your face if it were on fire.
Enjoy your miserable life and please, do us all a favor and take a bullet for someone.

 

[Big Gay Al]

I think it was Jeff Cooper who said it best.... "An armed society is a polite society".

Actually, I think it was Robert Heinlein who said it, in one of his books.

 

[BluesStringer]

Actually, I think it was Robert Heinlein who said it, in one of his books.

I think you're right Al. Doesn't change the clearly-demonstrated fact the poster who used that quote is a blazing hypocrite in light of the quote of his that I posted. That guy has no business whatsoever talking about manners concerning any topic, but least of all about the "polite" use of gun rhetoric.

Blues

 

[Big Gay Al]

I think you're right Al. Doesn't change the clearly-demonstrated fact the poster who used that quote is a blazing hypocrite in light of the quote of his that I posted. That guy has no business whatsoever talking about manners concerning any topic, but least of all about the "polite" use of gun rhetoric.

Blues

Well, I surely can't argue with that. :smile:

 

[Rayb]

First ask him what he is basing his theory of a hail of bullets in the hallway on. Second, if it was me I would either tell him to drive himself or find find another way to work, whichever applies to your situation.

 

[pistolannie]

I'm new to this forum, but after reading many threads now, I've seen A LOT of $#!& talk about "liberals." All of you need to realize that gun rights is not just a "conservative" issue. I am liberal, I typically vote democrat, and I have my CPL. I'm also female, in case you care. Gun rights advocates would have a much easier time of things if you would help educate the less informed about guns. Name calling and insulting the intelligence of others ("morons" "idiots" and the like, when more than half of us/them have college degrees - see Political ideologies in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for easy-to-reference stats) will just make them tune out. How do you like being called Gun Nuts? Because as a liberal gun owner, I spend a lot of time defending our/your reputation, too.

Before meeting my husband I was very anti-gun, but admittedly my beliefs were based on a lack of knowledge and understanding of guns and the people who own them. My husband talked me into going to the range with him shortly after we began dating, and all it took was one trip to change my mind about guns and gun "culture." I think this is the case of many people who are socially liberal; many of us grew up in cities or metro areas where guns aren't a part of everyday life, for hunting for example.

So, OP, instead of asking (only half-seriously, let's be honest) how you can argue with the guy in your carpool, how 'bout having a civil discussion. Ask him why he feels the way he does, or whether he's ever even been to a range or held a gun. I bet he hasn't. I'd go so far as to say that you should maybe invite him to go with you to a (nice) range sometime. Maybe he'll take you up on your offer and you can help change his mind instead of encouraging the stereotype he for sure believes about Gun Nuts.

 

[ServerJedi]

Being part of a family that has a few liberals in it, I can attest to the fact that some of them believe in carrying, but arguing politics is a losing cause to me. Typically, in my conversations, I end up mentioning welfare reform or the potential unfairness of Affirmative Action and when I start making sense I get called a racist after never mentioning race.

The thing I hear from libs on gun control consistently is that less guns means less guns for bad guys, a pointless argument. The other one is that without guns, crime would be reduced. Both are pointless. I try to explain that a BG is going to kill, rape, maim or steal if he has to do it with a gun, knife, sword, bat or chain.

I have literally had a reply to that argument of "but if they shoot you, the chances of dying are much higher."

I say if you are legal, screw 'em. I forgot to mention that 2 of the libs I know that carry, have been through something that a gun would have prevented. My dad always told me "God made man, but Guns made men equal."

 

[eagleeyes]

this is going to be alot of typing for me but i got it from an article in a mag years ago and kept it to this day

'history of gun control'
in 1929, the soviet union established gun control. from 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated

in 1911, turkey established gun control. from 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million armenians , unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated

germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

china established gun control in 1935. from 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissadents , unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated

guatemala established gun control in1964. from 1964 to 1981 100,000 mayan indians unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated

uganda established gun control in 1970. from 1971 to 1979, 300.000 christians, unable to defend themeslevfes were rounded up and exterminated

cambodia established gun contro in 1956. from 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated

defenseless people rounded up and exterminatedd in the 20th century because of gun control : 56 million yes 56 million souls!

 

[eagleeyes]

more

it has now been 12 months since gun owners in australia were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government , a program costing australia taxpayers more than 500 million dollars

the first year results are now in (it's an old mag) australia wide , homicides are up 3.2 % assaults are up 8.6% armed robberies are up 44 % yes 44%

in the state of victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent, not that while law abiding citizens tuned theirs in , the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns! while figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms , this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months. since criminals are guarenteed that their prey is unarmend there has also been a dramatic increase in breakins and assaults of the elderly

austrailian politicians are at a loss to explain how publick safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding australian society of guns. the australian experience and other historical facts above prove it

you won't see this data on american evening news or hear our president , governors or other politicians disseminating this information

guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and yes gun control laws affect only law abiding citizens

take note my fellow americans and open your minds next time someone talks in favor of gun control please reminde them of theis history lesson and sugges education concerning guns and not complet control over them. guns serve as a very neccessary tool to ensure the freedom of americans for generations to come

with guns we are 'citizens' without them wer are 'subjects'

it is also been said that shis in one of the major reasons why other countries fears attacking america on american soil, because they know that many us citizens are armed and ready to defend themselves . take this away and you'll see another story

.......end
give that to your anti gun friends please share where you can thanks

 

[Tucker's Mom]

more

it has now been 12 months since gun owners in australia were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government , a program costing australia taxpayers more than 500 million dollars

Research and know your facts lady! The Port Arthur massacre happend in 1996 wherein 35 people were killed and 21 people were wounded. It was that incident that broke the camel's back and the Australian government decided to ban private gun ownership. It was in 96/97 period when they decided to buy back programs. I have a house in Melbourne, Victoria. Tassie is not a part of any 5 states. Tassie is part of Victoria, capital Melbourne.

 

[eagleeyes]

tucker it was published in a magazine article years ago so it's been long since 12 months ago ffs don't ruffle your feathers over your own trivial misunderstandings

evidently you didn't see or read what i said

i'll reiterate before you get off to berate any further

''this is going to be alot of typing for me but i got it from an article in a mag years ago and kept it to this day''

 

[eagleeyes]

again tuckers mom did you read what i said here ''he first year results are now in (it's an old mag) australia wide , homicides are up 3.2 % assaults are up 8.6% armed robberies are up 44 % yes 44%''

showing the reader such as yourself the article was written years ago
i just saved it all that time

 

[fudo]

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then they beat you with experience.

 

[pistolannie]

I tried to post this the other day, but I don't see it posted so I'm posting again. I couldn't hold back any longer after reading so many insulting and ignorant remarks on this forum.

I am a liberal. I'm also female, in case you care. And not only do I own guns, I have my CPL, too. I know plenty of "liberals" who own firearms - I'm in Washington state, a "blue" state that has a higher gun ownership rate than Texas, so you bet it's not limited to just conservatives in this state. Gun rights is not a conservative issue - it's an American issue.

I was completely anti-gun until I met my husband, a guy from the Michigan sticks. Shortly after we began dating he convinced me to go to the range with him, and all it took was that one visit to change my mind about guns and gun owners. Now I know that my anti-gun feelings were from a lack of understanding and experience with guns and the (responsible) people who use them. I have since invited many others - several women - to come to the range with me, and I've seen similar changes in their perspectives following those experiences. I think many liberals grow up in cities and larger metropolitan areas, where guns just aren't an everyday part of life. We have hunting out here on the West Coast, but it's quite a ways out of the city, for instance; as for handguns, plenty of dads probably had them in the suburb where I grew up, but guns aren't something you really take out and show off to the kids.

So, OP, instead of resorting to name calling and dumbing-down your carpool buddy, how 'bout you try accepting that not everyone in this country is exposed to the same surroundings, and that results in different (and sometimes uninformed) opinions. When you make it personal and write someone off with a ridiculous stereotype/name, they'll just check out of the conversation. First of all, you should know that "liberal" isn't a bad word anymore than "conservative" is. Second, people who identify themselves as "liberal" on average have attained a higher level of education than those identifying as "conservative" (plenty of data online if you search) - they/we aren't idiots, so don't treat them/us like one. Our votes have the same value as yours, so if you're interested in swaying people to your side on an issue, you should do something productive to make it happen. You're in a position to teach someone about a topic they might not know anything about practically; instead of trying to figure out how to argue with this guy, why don't you try asking him about his experiences with guns, why he feels the way he does, etc.? Maybe you can even ask him to join you at the range sometime. He might surprise you if you give him a chance and treat him civilly and with a genuine interest in why he feels the way he does. In turn, maybe he can teach you something.

 

[Tucker's Mom]

@eagleeyes...I do not read long posts. I don't have time to. My PMS kicks in just reading your posts. I read articles and posts, but I refuse to read posts from people who knows where the sentence stops with a period but not start with a capital letter at the start of any sentence. Once in a while is negligible, but all the time are not and all your posts are not. And all your posts starts with small letters throughout. I quoted from the first paragraph of your post not from the other long previous ones. I do not put any people anymore on my ignore lists because sometimes they too have some meaty things to share to everyone. It means, in my mind, I was sort of wanting to give you a chance to improve the way you convey yourself through the many examples of forum writing, letter writing and so on and so forth here. That is what I study, not just the posts. Long posts can be long-winded and never worth their salt at times. And you keep referring to me as 'tucker'...I had responded to you once. I believed you have read that too...and told you my dog's name is Tucker. And the name Tucker is a noun. It starts with a CAPITAL T.

 

[swsd40]

He does not like guns? How does he feel about automobiles and public roadways? The fatality rate concerning automobiles is much higher than firearm fatalities. (and he is in a carpool? hmm putting and trusting his life in another persons hands)

 

[CapGun]

Highly unlikely in a car pool situation and even out and about. Still one should consider carrying a voice recorder just in case something like this ever did happen. If he screams "brandishing", the onus is on him to prove it.

You underestimate how ridiculous a, to use Outlaw's term, a Libtard can be once their emotions take over!

 

[CapGun]

I tried to post this the other day, but I don't see it posted so I'm posting again. I couldn't hold back any longer after reading so many insulting and ignorant remarks on this forum.

I am a liberal. I'm also female, in case you care. And not only do I own guns, I have my CPL, too. I know plenty of "liberals" who own firearms - I'm in Washington state, a "blue" state that has a higher gun ownership rate than Texas, so you bet it's not limited to just conservatives in this state. Gun rights is not a conservative issue - it's an American issue.

I was completely anti-gun until I met my husband, a guy from the Michigan sticks. Shortly after we began dating he convinced me to go to the range with him, and all it took was that one visit to change my mind about guns and gun owners. Now I know that my anti-gun feelings were from a lack of understanding and experience with guns and the (responsible) people who use them. I have since invited many others - several women - to come to the range with me, and I've seen similar changes in their perspectives following those experiences. I think many liberals grow up in cities and larger metropolitan areas, where guns just aren't an everyday part of life. We have hunting out here on the West Coast, but it's quite a ways out of the city, for instance; as for handguns, plenty of dads probably had them in the suburb where I grew up, but guns aren't something you really take out and show off to the kids.

So, OP, instead of resorting to name calling and dumbing-down your carpool buddy, how 'bout you try accepting that not everyone in this country is exposed to the same surroundings, and that results in different (and sometimes uninformed) opinions. When you make it personal and write someone off with a ridiculous stereotype/name, they'll just check out of the conversation. First of all, you should know that "liberal" isn't a bad word anymore than "conservative" is. Second, people who identify themselves as "liberal" on average have attained a higher level of education than those identifying as "conservative" (plenty of data online if you search) - they/we aren't idiots, so don't treat them/us like one. Our votes have the same value as yours, so if you're interested in swaying people to your side on an issue, you should do something productive to make it happen. You're in a position to teach someone about a topic they might not know anything about practically; instead of trying to figure out how to argue with this guy, why don't you try asking him about his experiences with guns, why he feels the way he does, etc.? Maybe you can even ask him to join you at the range sometime. He might surprise you if you give him a chance and treat him civilly and with a genuine interest in why he feels the way he does. In turn, maybe he can teach you something.

Hello. You state that "liberals" have a higher level of education then conservatives do. (I take it you mean those with college degrees) If that is true and I am not suggesting that it is not true, that would indicate a major reason why "liberals" think and act as they do. They have been "indoctrinated" by the (I won't say liberal) Marxist-Socialist Professors that permeate the world of "Academia"! (plenty of online data to support the make up of Professors at the college level).
Liberals in general do not let rational thought and facts interrupt their "emotional" response to all subject matter.
Now please don't be insulted but your post is well reasoned and substantiated. Plus your understanding of guns and the RTKBA lead me to believe yo are actually a "conservative". If that is not the case I have to warn you that you may be in a transitional state of being a "moderate" on the way to being a full fledged "Conservative!"
BTW "moderates" have no real core beliefs as compared to a true "liberal"....... as much as those core beliefs fly in the face of reason and facts. I have more respect for the "liberals". They just don't understand their infliction! So congratulations on your, to quote our great leader, "evolving" thought process. By your cogent, reasoned post your metamorphosis is almost complete.
Try "THE LIBERAL MIND" ....The Psychological Causes of Political Madness. I think you will see that you really don't fit the "Liberal" label!:sarcastic:leasantry:

 

[pistolannie]

Hello. You state that "liberals" have a higher level of education then conservatives do. (I take it you mean those with college degrees) If that is true and I am not suggesting that it is not true, that would indicate a major reason why "liberals" think and act as they do. They have been "indoctrinated" by the (I won't say liberal) Marxist-Socialist Professors that permeate the world of "Academia"! (plenty of online data to support the make up of Professors at the college level).
Liberals in general do not let rational thought and facts interrupt their "emotional" response to all subject matter.
Now please don't be insulted but your post is well reasoned and substantiated. Plus your understanding of guns and the RTKBA lead me to believe yo are actually a "conservative". If that is not the case I have to warn you that you may be in a transitional state of being a "moderate" on the way to being a full fledged "Conservative!"
BTW "moderates" have no real core beliefs as compared to a true "liberal"....... as much as those core beliefs fly in the face of reason and facts. I have more respect for the "liberals". They just don't understand their infliction! So congratulations on your, to quote our great leader, "evolving" thought process. By your cogent, reasoned post your metamorphosis is almost complete.
Try "THE LIBERAL MIND" ....The Psychological Causes of Political Madness. I think you will see that you really don't fit the "Liberal" label!:sarcastic:leasantry:

I am pro choice and will never vote for anyone who isn't.
I am pro gay rights, including equal marriage.
I am pro universal healthcare.
I am anti death penalty (ask me why).
I am pro freedom of religion, which is to say that the 1st Amendment is just as important to me as the 2nd is to you. That's freedom of ALL religions, or the freedom to claim no religion at all.

I attended a Christian university, by the way, filled with conservative professors. However if I were to go back and do it all again, I'd pick a different place. So no, I wasn't "indoctrinated," at least not in college. We all are a subject of our environments, and research has shown most people grow up to share the same political beliefs as their parents. Your beliefs have probably been shaped by a number of things: parents, schoolmates, religion, geography, current events, history and life experiences. My point is we'd all be better off if we tried to teach/learn from each other as opposed to name calling. I don't like being called a "tard" anymore than you probably like being called "stupid" or a "bigot."

Repeat: gun rights is not a conservative issue. It's really not.

 

[fuhr52]

Most anti gun people are Liberals and most Liberals are Democrats. So I'm sorry but Gun Rights is a Conservative Issue.