America is a Christian Nation

[Oldgrunt]

There is a reason for that OG, for the moment you throw the Pascal's Wager card on the table, you have admitted you cannot prove your gods existence, but chose to use fear to coerce the gullible to believe in your nonsense.

So continue, for every time you try to use "you better believe or else" nonsense, it only validates the fact you have noting but baseless fear to validate the existence of your imaginary friend. The desperation it represents is really sad coming from an individual that has been around as long as you have.

Baseless fear? No, on the contrary, there is a basis for fear. Psa. 111:10, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments. His praise endureth forever." I know you don't believe that but I do. Just for the sake of curiosity, do you, or have you ever, read the Bible? I'm not asking that question as an insult but only to know if you have ever read and studied it. It took me a long time to actually study the Bible. When I was younger and being in the military, I never really got into it very much. I have always believed in God but never devoted the time to Him that I should have. Several years back, I had the good fortune to fall in with a group of believers who studied the Bible. At the time, I had never heard of the Rapture or several other things. I had a minister working for me and we got into many discussions and I learned what I had been missing. I also learned of the prophecies foretold and then started verifying them by happenings in the world. I was totally amazed at how accurate
the Bible was (is) and started to study even more and learned what I had been missing all of my earlier years. I learned that there are records, other than the Bible, that attest to Jesus' life and death and the evidence of the truth of the Bible was overwhelming. I would give anything to go back in time and make up for all those years I ignored God. Thankfully, He was patient and waited for me to come back to Him. There were many times in my life where I could have been killed without ever really accepting the Lord. If I had died, I firmly believe my soul would be in hell. Be that as it may, I am following Him now and have no doubt to His existence. I don't really like to have heated discussions about the Lord but it seems like that is all we have on here. I enjoy repartee with those who believe as I do but, each time we say something to one another, the snipers come out in force. I am not asking atheists to believe in God. I know that one day they will believe and can only hope that God will be merciful to them. It is quite disturbing to have running gun battles. It amazes me how those who profess to not believe in God are the ones who complain the most. I will give you credit XD, in your arguments/comments, you never try to make up some Biblical reference to use as a put down. There is one on here who professes to be an atheist but will quote the Bible often to argue a point. The problem is, he quotes a book in which he says he doesn't believe, and really isn''t very conversant. He is unable to at least give a decent response concerning religion and makes himself look like a dunce. That gets quite frustrating to hear his looney tunes.

I know your thoughts on the subject, as well as those of nosreme, and you both give your rationale for your unbelief. I can accept that without heartburn. It is the little midgets who try to parrot the reasoning you both use who get one's dander up. Darn, if we are going to argue, all the participants should at least be knowledgeable in what they do, or don't believe.

 

[TroutKing]

What "church" do you attend that believes God to be a liar?

No one said "liar." You have an ancient people passing stories for thousands of years before they were written down. An ancient people with little or no education or understanding of the world around them. In the process the stories get changed. More is lost in the interpretation among languages. THIS IS A BOOK WRITTEN BY MEN. It is said to contain the word of God... as passed down with all the problems and permeations in the human species ability to do so. You can't get five people to play post office without the ending message being different from the starting message. How do guarantee 4,000 years of stories is accurate? You can't. While I believe in the word of the Bible I'm cognizant of the interpretive nature of the writings.

 

[TroutKing]

Actually, it works the opposite - people claim they believe in Jesus and that everlasting happiness and bliss awaits them - after a relative dies they even proclaim "he's in a BETTER place" - but the first thing they do when faced with the possibility that they may be going to see their boggieman, they pray to stay "oh Jesus...Please don't take me now..."

They even buy firearms and ammo to help keep themselves here.

If they really believed, they would teach their children this prayer:

Now I lay me down to sleep
I pray the lord my soul to take
If I should wake another day
I pray the lord hurry up and take me away.

But instead they are like a travel agent who tries to sell a trip to a far off place...a place they have never been to, and will do everything possible to avoid going to...

Just as Muslim extremists teach their kids.

 

[Ringo]

No one said "liar." You have an ancient people passing stories for thousands of years before they were written down. An ancient people with little or no education or understanding of the world around them. In the process the stories get changed. More is lost in the interpretation among languages. THIS IS A BOOK WRITTEN BY MEN. It is said to contain the word of God... as passed down with all the problems and permeations in the human species ability to do so. You can't get five people to play post office without the ending message being different from the starting message. How do guarantee 4,000 years of stories is accurate? You can't. While I believe in the word of the Bible I'm cognizant of the interpretive nature of the writings.

So you're a "cafeteria" Christian, pick & choose what you want to believe. Got it.

 

[XD40scinNC]

Baseless fear?

Yes, totally and completely Baseless. Quote all the nonsense from your baseless book, it changes nothing. Spew all the so called threats from that book you care to, still totally baseless.

Why? Your sources are baseless, and the fear derived from those sources, baseless. The monster under the bed is also not a threat for the very same reason.

 

[Oldgrunt]

Yes, totally and completely Baseless. Quote all the nonsense from your baseless book, it changes nothing. Spew all the so called threats from that book you care to, still totally baseless.

Why? Your sources are baseless, and the fear derived from those sources, baseless. The monster under the bed is also not a threat for the very same reason.

Just curious but, if our baseless book has no validity, why do you argue against it so hard? It seems to me that you are deliberately fighting against God. If you were totally satisfied in your unbelief, I would think you would just ignore religious comments and look at other items of interest. XD, you may not be the atheist you claim to be. Wow, wouldn't that be something....you believing after all!

 

[nogods]

Just curious but, if our baseless book has no validity, why do you argue against it so hard? It seems to me that you are deliberately fighting against God. If you were totally satisfied in your unbelief, I would think you would just ignore religious comments and look at other items of interest. XD, you may not be the atheist you claim to be. Wow, wouldn't that be something....you believing after all!

I don't know about XD, but I try to educate people about the bibles because it is like cocaine - it has a history of being a scourge on humanity and all too often leads people to insanity:

Buffalo, NY - A Buffalo woman who police say stabbed her eight year old son to death last May has pleaded not responsible due to mental defect or disease. That occurred during her appearance today before an Erie County Court judge according to the Erie County District Attorney's office.


Defense attorney David Addelman says prosecutors agreed with the decision. That was after three doctors examined his client Jessica Murphy and all determined she was delusional and suffering from bi-polar disorder when she killed Jacob Noe at their home on May 14th, 2014.


Police say Murphy told them when questioned that she had killed Jacob because he had to die and she was "saving him from going to hell."

and over and over, we have parents killing children to send them to Jesus - which, by the way, is the most logical conclusion for any real believer - why let your children suffer and possibly be captured by Satan - send them into everlasting happiness - sure you sacrifice your soul, but what greater sacrifice could one make for their children?

Oh wait, I forgot, your god thinks its better to send his only child to suffer for the sins of the world it created. a real coward.

 

[XD40scinNC]

Just curious but, if our baseless book has no validity, why do you argue against it so hard?

Because people that do not recognize your book is baseless continue to try and cram the baseless rules found in your book into civil laws that effect everyone.

Step back a moment and honestly tell me how you would react to another religions attempt to cram their baseless laws into civil laws you must follow. What 'laws' of the koran would you object to being forced to follow as they become state or federal law?

 

[XD40scinNC]

I don't know about XD, but I try to educate people about the bibles because it is like cocaine - it has a history of being a scourge on humanity and all too often leads people to insanity:

Telling someone a fact is not really educating them, they still lack the ability to use that knowledge for anything beneficial to themselves or others. Sure it expands their knowledge base, but it still is just a 'fact' they can recall. The real challenge is to plant the seed that causes them to reason, think and question

I have had conversations with a great many former theists, now atheists, and their moment of clarity came when they began to actually think and question their programming. One of the mantras of religion is 'do not question, do not think, just believe' for the greatest threat to religion is when believers actually begin to question the nonsense of what they are told to swallow without question.

Nothing you or I say will cause a theist to cease to believe, but we may well say something that sparks a question in their mind, and they alone continue to question and free their mind from their religious programming which began in many cases before potty training was started.

 

[Oldgrunt]

Because people that do not recognize your book is baseless continue to try and cram the baseless rules found in your book into civil laws that effect everyone.

Step back a moment and honestly tell me how you would react to another religions attempt to cram their baseless laws into civil laws you must follow. What 'laws' of the koran would you object to being forced to follow as they become state or federal law?

XD: I realize that you will never quit in your tirades about Christianity but, rather than try and "shout down" Christians, you are actually reinforcing our beliefs and have made yourself an example of those who are the scoffers referenced for the end times. The laws you say we are trying to cram down the throat of others were developed because of the sinful nature of man. Our laws have to be powerful enough to restrain the evil impulses of the masses. Any government that is unable to do that will eventually degenerate into anarchy and chaos. (I would think that our present stage of development(?) is indicative of that degeneration). From the founding of this country, the Bible has been used to establish our laws and to affirm the belief in God. The Bible contains absolute and unchanging principles relevant to our current society. Whether you agree or not, our laws have been developed using the Bible as our guide. God has been uppermost in the minds of our ancestors and, in printed texts during the period 1760-1805, 34% of the Founding Fathers cited the Bible in their various writings.

In this country, our law is the Constitution. There is an attempt now to bring Sharia Law into play here and, yes, I will absolutely fight any attempt to legalize it. If the Muslims want Sharia Law, let them return to wherever they came from and practice it to their delight. Your distaste for God and anything religious is well known to all on here. That is fine, but I (we) would all object to you, or anyone else, trying to change our beliefs and laws simply because you don't happen to agree with them. After all, yours is only and opinion, as is ours. You know what they say about opinions, they are like certain parts of one's anatomy. Everybody has one and they are all malodorous.

Those who do not recognize our book (Bible) are sacrificing their souls to accept deviant and perverse behavior in society. God's laws were established to teach us right from wrong. Those who are accepting of today's immorality are as guilty of sin as those who are practicing the deviancy. Unfortunately, we are all going to suffer for not only allowing this to happen but for also abetting it.

Baseless? No, Our God and Bible are true. You see, our God is not of this world. The one who is, is gleefully destroying the country. God help us all!

 

[Ringo]

XD: Those who are accepting of today's immorality are as guilty of sin as those who are practicing the deviancy. Unfortunately, we are all going to suffer for not only allowing this to happen but for also abetting it.

Baseless? No, Our God and Bible are true. You see, our God is not of this world. The one who is, is gleefully destroying the country.

Got to remember, regardless of how gleeful Satan is in his destruction of America, Satan cannot do anything that God does not allow him to do.

(Romans 1:28-32)​

"Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,
slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them"​

.

Even though it's all part of God's perfect plan of judgement, I still like to refer to it as POETIC JUSTICE.​

 

[TroutKing]

So you're a "cafeteria" Christian, pick & choose what you want to believe. Got it.

I don't think so. Noah did not fit two of every animal on earth into an ark. It's symbolic. I believe God saved the species of the earth but it was man's interpretation that spawned the story of Noah. Believe the event but consider he writing is interpretive and symbolic, not literal.

 

[Oldgrunt]

I don't think so. Noah did not fit two of every animal on earth into an ark. It's symbolic. I believe God saved the species of the earth but it was man's interpretation that spawned the story of Noah. Believe the event but consider he writing is interpretive and symbolic, not literal.

The interpretation and symbolism of who? Why is it necessary to try change what the Bible says? Do any of us know how many species of animals existed in Noah's time? If you consider it man's interpretation, remember there are many, many who would also have their interpretation. Why try to confuse the issue? Although well meaning, such speculation seems to take away from the Bible, not reinforce our beliefs. In a rather simplistic way, I like the old saw, "God said it; I believe it; that settles it."

I believe each of us is doing a disservice to God and the Bible with our continual postings in an effort to prove to the atheists what we believe. Titus 3:9-11, "But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned."

We know that we are not going to change the minds of atheists. In fact, by our responses, we are feeding their egos and letting them vent. Funny, for all of their protestations, none of them have specifically said why they don't believe in God or the Bible. Always some generalities about having determined that we are wrong through their own thoughts and questionings. Fair enough. It is their thoughts by which they will be judged in the end.

 

[nogods]

Do any of us know how many species of animals existed in Noah's time?

Actually we do know it was more than he could have fit on his boat.

 

[Oldgrunt]

Actually we do know it was more than he could have fit on his boat.

In your infinite wisdom, can you give us an accurate count of the species? I don't think anyone else has been able to do so. That was a pretty big ark and, if every living thing outside of it was killed in the flood, where did the animals come from? Gee, drop a few pearls of wisdom on us.

 

[XD40scinNC]

In this country, our law is the Constitution. There is an attempt now to bring Sharia Law into play here and, yes, I will absolutely fight any attempt to legalize it. If the Muslims want Sharia Law, let them return to wherever they came from and practice it to their delight. Your distaste for God and anything religious is well known to all on here. That is fine, but I (we) would all object to you, or anyone else, trying to change our beliefs and laws simply because you don't happen to agree with them. After all, yours is only and opinion, as is ours. You know what they say about opinions, they are like certain parts of one's anatomy. Everybody has one and they are all malodorous.

Yes, the constitution is our law, and while you say it, it also appears you don't understand that. No where does it say "see bible or any other holy book for further instructions".

Again (I am tired of repeating this, will you ever catch on), my issue is not with an imaginary god, but in the flesh and blood followers that keep trying to cram the ignorance of god into society.

Again (I am tired of repeating this, you ever catch on), I am not trying in any form to tell you what you can or cannot believe, but I will tell you that you have absolutely zero right to force those beliefs on any person in this country. To further your position of fighting attempt to impose muslim laws into our civil laws, is your beef with Allah, or with the flesh and blood followers of Allah that wish to force you to abide by their book? The only difference is the name of the imaginary god.

And if you will notice, the SCOTUS supports that position that laws based on christian beliefs are counter to our laws by overturning yet again laws derived from religion, because they are counter to our Constitution, and as you noted above our laws. Also seems that the SCOTUS with the Constitution in mind also has the same opinion that I do, that no religion has the right to force religious laws into civil law.

Go to church, handle snakes, dance nekid at the alter, what ever the hell you want, I could care less, but the first time you attempt to tell anyone "you can't do that, because my book says so", then screw off, for you have stepped beyond your rights to believe what you want and are choosing to force your beliefs upon those with different beliefs.

 

[XD40scinNC]

Do any of us know how many species of animals existed in Noah's time?

Well clearly you don't, but I bet science could give a pretty accurate estimate.

Or perhaps there were only a 1000 or so species, which would clearly validate that evolution is a very real thing, for today the number of species is estimated to be 8,700,000. That's a hell of a lot of evolving.... oh wait, your buy bull says evolution didn't happen..... well that sucks. I know it must be "god magic". /sarcasm

The problem christians have making up bull excrement stories like the noah and the big boat is that they have to make up even more bull excrement stories to justify the first pile of excrement.

 

[TroutKing]

The interpretation and symbolism of who? Why is it necessary to try change what the Bible says? Do any of us know how many species of animals existed in Noah's time? If you consider it man's interpretation, remember there are many, many who would also have their interpretation. Why try to confuse the issue? Although well meaning, such speculation seems to take away from the Bible, not reinforce our beliefs. In a rather simplistic way, I like the old saw, "God said it; I believe it; that settles it."

I believe each of us is doing a disservice to God and the Bible with our continual postings in an effort to prove to the atheists what we believe. Titus 3:9-11, "But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned."

We know that we are not going to change the minds of atheists. In fact, by our responses, we are feeding their egos and letting them vent. Funny, for all of their protestations, none of them have specifically said why they don't believe in God or the Bible. Always some generalities about having determined that we are wrong through their own thoughts and questionings. Fair enough. It is their thoughts by which they will be judged in the end.

I believe we do know roughly how many species were on earth 5,000 or 10,000 or even 15,000 years ago. The number is mind-boggling. many thousands of species existed with only a small percentage located in the middle-east. To obtain and house two of every species for forty days would require such massive resources of space, food and waste removal that no ark could be built to support it; unless the story of the ark is limited to geographic location or that it was actually divine intervention that preserved life.

So what was God's method of preserving the species of life? We don't know. Was the ark a DNA storage facility from which species would arise again? We don't know. What do we know? We know the primitive people who wrote the stories in the Bible were primitive by today's standard. They lacked any real scientific knowledge as math and science hadn't yet been invented. They wrote these stories symbolically to describe what was handed-down. They told the stories in a manner that they could understand... symbolic. I believe in the story of Noah. i just don't believe he built a wooden boat by hand with little help that would house such a massive resource. To do so today would b early impossible. So who claims to know the exact method by which the hand of God acted?

 

[Oldgrunt]

I believe we do know roughly how many species were on earth 5,000 or 10,000 or even 15,000 years ago. The number is mind-boggling. many thousands of species existed with only a small percentage located in the middle-east. To obtain and house two of every species for forty days would require such massive resources of space, food and waste removal that no ark could be built to support it; unless the story of the ark is limited to geographic location or that it was actually divine intervention that preserved life.

So what was God's method of preserving the species of life? We don't know. Was the ark a DNA storage facility from which species would arise again? We don't know. What do we know? We know the primitive people who wrote the stories in the Bible were primitive by today's standard. They lacked any real scientific knowledge as math and science hadn't yet been invented. They wrote these stories symbolically to describe what was handed-down. They told the stories in a manner that they could understand... symbolic. I believe in the story of Noah. i just don't believe he built a wooden boat by hand with little help that would house such a massive resource. To do so today would b early impossible. ?So who claims to know the exact method by which the hand of God acted

Your last sentence makes my point. None of us know the hows and whys of God's work. We have only the Bible to inform us and, since it was written thousands of years ago, there is no one left to dispute it. Rather than try to debate the issue, I simply use the Bible, as written. It is much simpler than worrying about something we will never know the answers to. It is what I do know from the Bible that keeps me busy. I don't dispute what you have written, after all, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I am just glad to see that you are studying the Bible! I found this reference to be interesting about Noah's ark and, especially, the bit about the man who built a half-size ark.

How long to build Noah's Ark?

 

[XD40scinNC]

So who claims to know the exact method by which the hand of God acted?

Science can explain it, yet some choose to just file it all under "god magic". I really don't understand why christians are so in denial of science, at least until they have a serious illness, when they demand that 'science' save them..... yet after all of medical save them (or a loved one), god gets the credit.

Save your money, no need to spend $100,000's when god dunnit. Right?