.45acp vs 9mm


My carry caliber of choice is...


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With todays ammo it really not that much differance, for me it's the 9mm got (3) better price cause I don't reload. When hunting I carry 357 It will take any animal down here if needed :yu: That the 06 can't get crosshairs on ; )
 

Carried a S&W 686 357 magnum for awhile and loved it. Big gun to carry. Went to a M&P compact 9. Now carry a full size M&P 45acp. By far my favorite.:biggrin:
 
Basically it comes down to stopping the subject. A 45ACP with a 230 grain bullet is double your 115 grain 9mm. More blood lost at a faster rate will stop anything. The bottom line, if you want to stop someone, use a 45. If you want to piss someone off, use a 9mm. A 9mm is great for penetration, like shoot at a car door. The biggest problem is shot placement and making sure you hit what you are aiming at.I feel you should carry the biggest caliber that you can accurately shoot. My choice is a 45ACP, with a mouse gun 32ACP in your back pocket. What does a robber ask for? Your wallet right. You pull out your like 32 mouse back up and blast the scum bag in his face.If need be, you can finish the job with your BEAST stopper 45ACP.
 
The military uses both calibers...Which is preferred as a carry round???

And Why???

In the civilian world, that depends on the individual. I think one should carry what he is most proficient with. All service calibers can work, and they all can fail. No matter which caliber you carry, you should expect a 'failure to stop' and train accordingly. As an LEO for the last 14 years, I've carried 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP duty weapons. In training, we did 'failure to stop' drills with every caliber. The number stamped on your slide is no guarantee of a 'one shot stop.'

Besides, the rest of the world is generally content with the 9mm, including our own Special Forces, the Bristish SAS and Israeli commandos, the latter of which are more far more likely to encounter determined terrorists than we are. Oh, and mostly, they use ball ammo. With the excellent crop of hollowpoint ammo that is available in most of the US, caliber doesn't mean as much as it used to. Find the most reliable weapon you are committed to carrying every day. Then pick the best defensive load that works best in that weapon. Then worry more about training and tactics than about handgun caliber. But what fun is that, right? :laugh:
 
In the civilian world, that depends on the individual. I think one should carry what he is most proficient with. All service calibers can work, and they all can fail. No matter which caliber you carry, you should expect a 'failure to stop' and train accordingly. As an LEO for the last 14 years, I've carried 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP duty weapons. In training, we did 'failure to stop' drills with every caliber. The number stamped on your slide is no guarantee of a 'one shot stop.'

Besides, the rest of the world is generally content with the 9mm, including our own Special Forces, the Bristish SAS and Israeli commandos, the latter of which are more far more likely to encounter determined terrorists than we are. Oh, and mostly, they use ball ammo. With the excellent crop of hollowpoint ammo that is available in most of the US, caliber doesn't mean as much as it used to. Find the most reliable weapon you are committed to carrying every day. Then pick the best defensive load that works best in that weapon. Then worry more about training and tactics than about handgun caliber. But what fun is that, right? :laugh:


You summed that up nicely. Excellent post.
 
Basically it comes down to stopping the subject. A 45ACP with a 230 grain bullet is double your 115 grain 9mm. More blood lost at a faster rate will stop anything. .

This is old school thinking, though not entirely off the charts.

First, with today's +P and +P+ pressures in 9mm Luger with a bullet such as the Corbon DPX your expansion rate is close to that of the .45 ACP, regardless of what anyone tells you. .930 is the expansion rate of the 115 grain 9mm Luger with the Barnes DPX bullet. With my Federal SXT 230 grain, the expansion is about the same, but which has done more damage in the temporary and permanent wound cavity ?? Both are pretty close, but if the slower .45 ACP doesn't expand untill as early as the 9mm Luger round than your wound cavity just might be that much of difference from a properly placed 9mm Luger shot, assuming your using this type of ammunition.

You can hit a man square in the heart with a .45 ACP, it doesn't mean he's going down immediatley, in fact I'd be placing additiona rounds COM or to the head until he drops to the ground and isn't breathing. Blood loss is blood loss, especially then more damage is done by a more effective bullet design and composition.

I don't have any problem carrying a 9mm Luger pistol with the right ammunition. I'm going to pull the trigger until my threat is emliminated, not just after two shots, let alone one shot. If I empty the entire mag on a would be bad buy then I'll feel confident that I did my job.

"Why'd you shoot him 16 times ?.......................Well, your Honor, I ran out of ammo"
 
Carried a S&W 686 357 magnum for awhile and loved it. Big gun to carry. Went to a M&P compact 9. Now carry a full size M&P 45acp. By far my favorite.:biggrin:

My eBay auction ended and the money is in the Paypal account!! FirstDefense Firearms here I come!!! S&W M&P 45acp will be mine...:yes2:
I love the model 65 and I shoot it well, but it's hard to hide in the summer. I’ll still carry it in the cool weather...It’s that good.
I plan to take a trip to the S&W factory in Springfield MA and have the performance upgrades done to the M&P and add the manual safety. Go figure the model with the manual safety is non compliant here in MA???? An added manual safety feature non compliant?? That’s MA for ya…:wacko:
 
Good luck on your purchase!

My eBay auction ended and the money is in the Paypal account!! FirstDefense Firearms here I come!!! S&W M&P 45acp will be mine...:yes2:
I love the model 65 and I shoot it well, but it's hard to hide in the summer. I’ll still carry it in the cool weather...It’s that good.
I plan to take a trip to the S&W factory in Springfield MA and have the performance upgrades done to the M&P and add the manual safety. Go figure the model with the manual safety is non compliant here in MA???? An added manual safety feature non compliant?? That’s MA for ya…:wacko:
Good to hear another 45ACP fan out there.

Here is my thinking

9mm is really fast but unless you hit a major bone you are going to carry most of that energy out the far side of your intended target.

45 ACP is really slow You will deposit more of the kinetic energy in the target and less out the backside. It is all about the transfer of energy.

Both rounds carry a huge amount of energy one due to weight and the other due to speed. It how the energy is applied that matters.

There are some things that even thing up a bit Hollow Points and the like VS Ball ammo.

The only reason that the Military is so effective with the 9mm round is how they are trained to shoot. The Mozambique Drill and double taps are he rule of the day for them. Foe the average Joe you may not be as well trained and need every advantage you can get.

Remember the 45 ACP was the answer to drugged up insurgents that the 38 would not put down.

In combat most combatants are not drugged up but the guy who broke into your house to steal you blind for his next hit of meth is probably not wired right and you need all the help you can get to keep your family safe!
 
My friends Steve and Steve (one's been dead for 4 years and the other lost the right to own firearms due to some drunk-driving arrests here in MA) both had some interesting weapons growing up. One had a Beretta model 92 compact in 9mm, a Walther PPK 380 auto and a Colt Python .357Mag w/ 6” barrel. The other liked big cannons and had a Desert Eagle in 44Mag and a nice colt 1911 45acp. My friend Sean (LEO) had 2 Glocks both 40S&W. Model 27 for off duty carry and a 22 for duty carry. I used to go with the Police Lt, his nephew and Sean to the GSSF events here in MA before Glock said “To Hell with MA”. I was able to shoot all of these weapons often and I recall the .40 and the .45acp were by far my favorite to shoot and I was able to perform better with the lower recoil from the slower 45 vs. the 357Mag I have now. I shoot the 357 better in single action mode (as do most) and prefer the .38 spec +P over the full 357Mags due to the recoil. I was looking at the S&W model 1911 but I’m trying to keep some of the money for x-mass shopping and I intend to use the .45 for carry purpose. Maybe later on I’ll get the S&W 1911 and trick it out for range use. The .45acp has been battle tested and proven to be more effective than the 9mm in critical defense situations. That’s why most of the police departments here in MA have gone to the .40 and the .45 as have other states. Our locals have dropped the 9mm and are using the .45 :yes4:
 
Some facts on the 9mm

Massad ayoob the most recognized gun/shooting expert in the business, Has a video called shoot to live. In this video he explained how the 9mm if using the right round is more effective as far as stopping power. For those who are already saying "BS!" Just hear me out. The .45 has over the years been given the title "Man Stoppers" But in the early days of the .45 the types of people they were fighting were averaged to be 130-140 lbs. And these men were usually under fed and in poor health, Their muscle make up and general health was poor also. So if you were to use a .45 on an average American 175-200 lbs who is well in health and in all around good condition you would see that a .45 is not gonna have close to the desired perception of him flying off of his feet being stopped with one shot.But a 9mm HYDRA SHOK or COR BON rounds (ayoobs choice for carry as well as mine) Has a consistent record of stopping threats and ending bad situation all around, The hollowed point of a hydra shok has a little pin in the middle of hit increasing the "mushroom" effect as the bullet enters a target as well as making sure shirt and jacket material dosen't clog the round keeping it from expanding properly. The 9mm has a better record of staying in the mody of your attacker decreasing dangers of friendly targets in background as well as maximizing the force of the "shock and aww" . Basically if you have a large round that goes straight through a target you take away the point of shooting a threat. I mean if you shoot at a dangerous individual trying to cause harm to you or another innoccent believe me you are gonna want a round that effects them on impact that hits hard and stays in causing great inconveniece as far as them trying to stay in the fight. The most common reason a bad guy stops fighting is he loses the ability if you shoot an attacker and the bullet goes right through 90% of the wound is gonna close back up because the inside of the human body as far as muscle goes is like elastic, if a hole is poked through a body the muscles and tissue close up rapidly sealing the wound and stopping alot of bleeding, So you are gonna want a bullet that gonna hit with force, make a large and jagged wound channel keeping it opened so air can cause the blood and energy to literally flow from the body ending a gun fight or armed encounter alot faster ..... I love the field of ballistics to the point i could go on for hours but i am off to work now, If you would like to hear more about the differences between rounds, or just give your opinion or experiences i would love to talk more with you, But if you wanna great video to watch on this very topic Watch shoot to live from massad ayoob i believe it is on YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.. This is my first post and first night as a member so i look foreward to speaking and reading with you guys in the future.

Stay safe and be nice guys!
 
Anything about 40S&W?

Mikelang15 - was there anything wrt 40 S&W.

Also, can you find the title of the You Tube clip?

Personally, I think the debate should go toward ballistics and bullet types.
It's the transfer of energy that relates to stopping power and that depends a lot on the bullet.

I've had a similar debate about AR15s, AK-47s and AR-10's.
Somehow when they chose a pistol they selected a 40 over the 9mm for stopping power.
But they want AR-15s over AR-10's (.223 over .308 with 2-3 times the energy)
 
you are kind of right , melloyellow.
the great debate about ak's, ar's and such is more about design and accuracy than power, but i do agree. ballistics should play a big part of it but not all of it........whatever round anyone considers a 'manstopper' wont do any good if you cant hit the target.
i started my wife on the lowley 22, now she can confidently hit at 25 yards with my eagle. although i know what she can do to a stationary target ( and i pray she never has to find out about a live target) i bought her a 9mm glock with night sights and i installed a lasermax sight so even with fmj's i know she will hit her opponent.
 
you are kind of right , melloyellow.
the great debate about ak's, ar's and such is more about design and accuracy than power, but i do agree. ballistics should play a big part of it but not all of it........whatever round anyone considers a 'manstopper' wont do any good if you cant hit the target.
i started my wife on the lowley 22, now she can confidently hit at 25 yards with my eagle. although i know what she can do to a stationary target ( and i pray she never has to find out about a live target) i bought her a 9mm glock with night sights and i installed a lasermax sight so even with fmj's i know she will hit her opponent.

I strongly recommend using HP or other "expanding" type of ammo for SD. FMJ rounds are great for the range, but could be extremely hazardous if used in a defensive situation.



gf
 
i bought her a 9mm glock with night sights and i installed a lasermax sight so even with fmj's i know she will hit her opponent.

How does night sights and a Lasermax guarantee that she's going to hit her target ?? :sarcastic:

I'd work more on trigger follow through, proper sight radius, remedial action of jams and a whole host of other things in the tactical/defensive use of a handgun.

Gizzmo's won't guarantee anything, unless you wanna impress your unknowing friends with lasers and gimmicks hanging off your gun.

Just a thought.

For you tactical type enthusiasts here's Todd Jarret and his reload drills. Worth watching.

YouTube - Blackhawk Shooting Tips with Todd Jarrett: Tactical Reloading


Shooting on the move with Todd Jarret. "It's not hard, it's harder"


YouTube - Blackhawk Shooting Tips with Todd Jarrett: How to Shoot on the Move


Proper grip with Todd Jarret

YouTube - Todd Jarrett on pistol shooting.


Close range gun fighting. Reality vs Myth.

YouTube - Close-Range Gunfighting
 
I strongly recommend using HP or other "expanding" type of ammo for SD. FMJ rounds are great for the range, but could be extremely hazardous if used in a defensive situation.

gf

That's an excellent recommendation Glock Fan. You really can't compare a 45 vs 9mm (or 40 S&W for that matter) without taking into account the types of bullets. They make a huge difference in penetration and stopping power. We (spouse and friends) practice with FMJs, (S)WC, or LRN but prefer HP or HP/XTP for personal defense.
 
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well, i didnt want to bore you with all the details. ( sarcastic) but i have years of military training and police training. no , gizmos wont garauntee anything but before i got my wife her own gun, i made damn sure she knew how to handle it....that includes tactical shooting and jam clearing. for someone who was never in a situaton where you needed to use firearms to save your life, just for her to know its there helps calm her nerves....which is the main reason for a trained person to miss
 
Well it's a done deal... S&W M&P 45acp... Picked it up today!!! :happy:(Pictures added to my albums)... I don't argue that the ammo used will have a great deal of impact (had to go there) on the stopping power regardless of the caliber, but with a slower heavy round the chance of punching through is less. I’m not a ballistics expert, but with some real world testing I have seen the difference first hand. Both my friends Steve and Steve had this very discussion some years ago. We brought some empty anti-freeze containers filled with sand and water and tops put back on tight to the range to do some testing. 9mm vs .45acp and 44Mag…
The most “visible and violent” damage to the jugs was done by the 44Mag (that’s a no brain-er and the reason folks carry them in bear country). The .45acp was next as far as apparent damage (size of the hole in and out, amount of tearing damage done, as well as water displaced at the initial impact) things of that nature. No it’s not controlled scientific data collection, but what I saw made an impression on me. The 9mm did damage but was visibly less then the others. So I chose to go with the 45acp. Again using the right ammo will make a difference. Since most of us do not have access to controlled conditions, endless ammo selection and vats of ballistic gel, we have to rely on the data produced by the labs. For every opinion there is a counter opinion. Good information to read and review when it’s posted in one place…
 
well, i didnt want to bore you with all the details. ( sarcastic) but i have years of military training and police training.

That doesn't say much to me. What training besides qualifiying once a year in the military did you have ? What advanced courses have you attended while in the military ? SFAUC ? SOTIC ? Train with Paul Howe ? Jim Smith ? or serve with a Tier One unit ?? How often did your unit conduct live fire exercises ?? Any ? if at all ? Have you ever low crawled to your objective with a M60 gunner putting suppressive fire live rounds in front of you while you are still crawling ??? Wanna know what's that's like ?

As far as police training goes, I can get my 15 year old son up to speed in a weekend.

Military training and LEO training say's to me you know how to hold and to reload a simple rifle and shotgun platform. And you've shot at some paper targets with a duty sidearm.

Am I supposed to be impressed with you ???

By the way it's "SEALs" ..................not "S.E.A.L.S".......................I don't know anybody in the NSW community that would period the acronym. It's a sure sign of someone that know's little if anything regarding the NSW brotherhood.
 

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