1st gun, Home Defense, 12 Gauge or Handgun?

[Unfettered Might]

Don't get the wrong idea.. The First shot should Go for Center mass (the chest area).. It is much harder to miss for you, and much harder for the BG to move.. You are not a Sniper.. Go for the chest..

I can crack a roughly 12 inch square box at 300 yards with the iron sights on a SKS about 17 out of 20 times.

I can also put every shot out of my Taurus in a 3 inch shot group at 20 feet.

I might not officially be a "sniper", but I have 20/10 vision and a real steady hand.

But I realize that life or death situations create stress, hence the 2 in the chest and one in the head.

2 to stun and maybe stop the threat, the next one to stop the threat.

We are not talking about guarantees, we are talking probabilities. Which is more probable, you get killed by a mugger inside your gated community in the rich neighborhood in which you live, or you get killed while walking through the projects in the middle of the night with $20 haning out of your pockets while wearing Ralph Lauren? Probabilities. Which is more likely to stop someone in their tracks, a hit from a .22 or a hit from a .50? My money is on the .50 every time. I will lose the bet, once in a while, but I will win almost always.
Yes, a hit from a .22 is better than a miss from a .50 (usually, again probabilites), but a hit from a .50 is better than a hit from a .22. As far as head shots go, the head is a MUCH smaller target than center of mass. If you have the skill, more power to you. But you had better hit right around the nose, as a forhead hit has the possibility of bouncing off.
As a generality, bigger bullets stop more. We can have the 9mm vs 45 arguements all day, and all bullets are lethal, but bigger bullets stop faster.

In a SD scenario, I am only interested in guarantees. It's so highly improbable that the BG is going to shoot back after taking one in the head, one can pretty much call it a guarantee.

I wasn't making an argument about caliber, I was stating the facts about marksmanship vs compensating for lack of it with a larger round.

 

[ClearSightTactical]

I can crack a roughly 12 inch square box at 300 yards with the iron sights on a SKS about 17 out of 20 times.

I can also put every shot out of my Taurus in a 3 inch shot group at 20 feet.

I might not officially be a "sniper", but I have 20/10 vision and a real steady hand.

But I realize that life or death situations create stress, hence the 2 in the chest and one in the head.

2 to stun and maybe stop the threat, the next one to stop the threat.



In a SD scenario, I am only interested in guarantees. .

Only guarantees are death & taxes.

 

[Hawkeye638]

I guess it comes down to how you intend to protect yourself and your home. If you plan on staying put in one room as the BG comes to you it is hard to beat a shotgun. If you intend to be mobile and go out and clear your home the maneuverability of a much shorter weapon and high capacity magazines gives the handgun the tactical edge. For what it is worth I have a Benelli Nova Tactical in my closet ready to go but it is a Glock 21SF sitting on my nightstand that I anticipate to reach for first.

 

[HK4U]

I guess it comes down to how you intend to protect yourself and your home. If you plan on staying put in one room as the BG comes to you it is hard to beat a shotgun. If you intend to be mobile and go out and clear your home the maneuverability of a much shorter weapon and high capacity magazines gives the handgun the tactical edge. For what it is worth I have a Benelli Nova Tactical in my closet ready to go but it is a Glock 21SF sitting on my nightstand that I anticipate to reach for first.

Wise choices. You pretty much have all the bases covered. The shotgun makes a great addition but as an only gun greatly limits your choices.

 

[DarrellM5]

As for a home defense weapon, it's a toss-up between a handgun and a shotgun depending on a lot of things like: how difficult is it to maneuver through your home, are there people sleeping in other rooms, etc...

But since you stated this is your first gun, I'd go for the handgun because it's a lot more versatile and you can take it with you more easily.

BTW, I had a S&W Sigma .40 SW40VE and it was the worst gun I've ever fired. It was accurate, but the trigger has a terrible reputation. Mine had a trigger pull in excess of 10 pounds and a real mushy feel. I traded it in after owning it for less than a month. I'd even take a Hi-point over a Sigma. DO NOT buy a Sigma without the opportunity to try it out first.

 

[Unfettered Might]

Only guarantees are death & taxes.

Ain't that the truth lol.

 

[rmarcustrucker]

My Glock 27 is what i used until I get to my Moss 500. 12 guage beats all handgun calibers. I've trained with shotgun for years and it's the most versitile home defense weapon you can have. Every home should have one. (we have 2. Wife is pretty good with the 20 guage )

 

[B2Tall]

Shotgun. No question in my mind.

 

[kengrubb]

I'm assuming that you're new to firearms in general. If not I apologize.
I'm assuming that you've never fired a shotgun or a pistol. If not I apologize.
I'm assuming that you're trying to base your decisions on youtube videos, the media, and forums.

Again, I apologize for assuming, but its just what I see.

My best recommendation is for you to take a FIREARMS SAFETY course.

I'm going to say +1 to what CST said and also recommend a handgun over a shotgun since it's a first gun.

Shotguns are one of the most non-intuitive weapons there is. Short stroking is moderately easy to do, and it's much harder to clear than a misfeed in a semiauto pistol. I tend to not even realize if I've done a Tap-Rack-Go with my Glock. It just happens.

 

[B2Tall]

I own 4 handguns and an AR15 but the weapon I'm reaching for first in my home is my 12 gauge. With 3" 00 magnums spitting out 15 pellets a pop I'm not likely to miss even when shooting at a poorly lit target without my glasses.

 

[texasnative46]

to all,

as an old/retired lawman (getting older every day!) i PREFER a short-barrelled, 12 guage shotgun, loaded with #4Buck for home/farm defense, though i carry a P6, concealed, 24/365.

in the DARK (which is when MOST home invasions happen!) a handgun of any sort is nearly worth-LESS, as you cannot SEE the sights. - otoh, at "in house ranges" i will NOT miss a criminal with a load of #4 Buckshot.

mine happens to be an OLD "sawed off" Fox double with 18" barrels, that i paid 75.oo for about 25 years ago. - it shoots EVERY time & is my trusted PICKUP GUN.

yours, TN46

 

[theicemanmpls]

Oldwest outlaw, and founder of the wild bunch gang Bill Doolin after a losing encounter with a Deputy US Marshal's shotgun
A picture says a thousand words.

As usual the topic has morphed this way and that from the OP.

If, I had to choose only one firearm, it would be a 12 gauge pump.
With two barrels one long, smooth, and choked. The other open cylinder I can take small and large game. Entertainment with skeet, or trap.
Several rounds of shot available. More if get tube extenders.

Simplicity, or;
Customization options are many. Lights, lasers, extenders, slides stocks. MPV3 adaptors. You name it.
I can use a huge variety of projectiles, and loads.

Against two legged varmints none better
Home defense-there is simply none equaled.
Keep it clean, and lightly oiled it will work when required.
I have a quick remove loose cloth covering over mine.
I keep mine in patrol car mode. Four rounds in the tube. Safety off. Trigger has been tripped. All I do is rack a round and pull trigger when needed. I have a masking tape marker on slide to show condition.
I prefer buck, 00, or #4.
I understand some swat entry teams use lowbase #8 birdshot
I have tried that on the range against water jugs at 21 feet. Very effective. I may switch to that because of over penetration concerns.
Listen to all the opinions here, then go to the gun shop and buy at least five firearms.

 

[jtg452]

Iceman,
My first round up is a hi-brass #6, the rest are #1 Buck (all 2 3/4", 3" hulls are a waste in this application and they cut down on mag capacity). Depending on which #1 Buckshot load you get, you are talking about 16 (unplated Winchester and Remington) to 20 (plated Federal) .30 caliber round balls coming out of the muzzle every time you squeeze the trigger. 00 Buckshot is .32 caliber and the most you can get in a 2 3/4" hull is 9. With the slightly smaller diameter, the #1's have less weight (mass) and should over penetrate less since they are traveling at roughly the same velocity. Besides, mo' is always mo' bettuh:laugh:. I'll take 16 to 20 .30's over 8 or 9 .32's all day, any day.

 

[texasnative46]

itg452,

the #4Buck, 2 3/4", 12 guage, shells have 27 pellets. out of my shotgun at 15 yards, i get a 36-40" (nearly round) pattern.

#4 buck does NOT usually penetrate BOTH sides of interior home walls, with enough remaining velocity to cause serious injury or death.
otoh, #4 Buck will "ruin your whole night", if you get hit with a few of those "blue whizzers".

yours, TN46

 

[HK4U]

to all,

as an old/retired lawman (getting older every day!) i PREFER a short-barrelled, 12 guage shotgun, loaded with #4Buck for home/farm defense, though i carry a P6, concealed, 24/365.

in the DARK (which is when MOST home invasions happen!) a handgun of any sort is nearly worth-LESS, as you cannot SEE the sights. - otoh, at "in house ranges" i will NOT miss a criminal with a load of #4 Buckshot.

mine happens to be an OLD "sawed off" Fox double with 18" barrels, that i paid 75.oo for about 25 years ago. - it shoots EVERY time & is my trusted PICKUP GUN.

yours, TN46

Actually I can see the sights on my HK real well in the dark due to them being night sights. As far as distance is concerned, in my house I will not miss with my had gun either. If however things go south in a hurry and I need more fire power I still have my shot gun as well as a number of other choices.

 

[kelcarry]

New England Firearms, which is now owned by Remington who bought out Marlin who bought out H&K, who owned New England (got that?) make a Pardner Pump Protector which is an almost exact knockoff of an 18.5 inch Remington pump. I actually downloaded the 870 manual so I could be sure of the breakdown and cleaning of the New England model. You can get one for under $200. I have one and I have no problems practicing with it w/o any issues. For a firearm you probably will never use, it is a good buy IMO.
After I bought the shotgun, the Taurus Judge came out and they make quite a few varieties of it--nice combo of 410shot and 45 but a great all in one home defense gun that is at least easy to keep handy (never shot one so cannot tell you about that but I'm sure you can get reviews galore from internet and this site). May be a few bucks more but you are getting 2 guns (at least the 2 calibres).

 

[aj's 40 cal]

my house gun is a mossberg 500a1 with winchester ranger 00 buckshot ready to go, my moss was only 270 with tax, but that was 3 years ago. great shotgun. also carry a s&w model M&P in .40 cal. my smith was 500 new. good luck, id go with the shotgun if its for the home only. pistol if you want to shoot alot or go ccw like myself.........

 

[texasnative46]

HK4U; all,

SORRY, but there is an "under stress" USMS study that indicates that "night sights" are "not significantly better" than regular sights in "near or full black darkness", though those sights are better than nothing in "low light situations".

"firing under combat stress" is FAR from the same situation than "simulated fire", on a range is, even under "low light conditions".

that's WHY i trust the 12 guage over ANY handgun, in an ACTUAL "exchange of fires" at night. = my partner, of several years (Larry H__________) & one of "the best shots" that i know, got into a SHOOTOUT in an darkened ICEHOUSE (remember those?), with TWO people, about 15 years ago. - he was reduced to shooting "in the general direction of " the BG by firing AT where he THOUGHT the shooters were.

i do NOT believe that he would have had difficulty hitting BOTH of them with his Remington Stainless Marine 12guage pump, instead of the Colt's Government Model, in .36Super ACP & a S&W Model 64 snubnose that he HAD.

just my OPINION.

yours, TN46

 

[HK4U]

I]I agree if hitting the target is the only consideration then the shotgun wins hands down. In a home invasion however there are a couple factors that can come into play that for me makes the handgun the weapon of choice. First of all it is of course preferable to stay in your bedroom or safe room. This may not always be an option. If you have loved ones in other rooms I doubt if most of us are going to stay put. If I have to go from room to room clearing the house it is less likely that I would have my gun grabbed with a handgun held in close in the high ready position than any long gun. Second if the BG is holding on to a member of my family with a knife or gun I feel fairly positive that I can deliver a head shot to him with my handgun at the close range that I would encounter in my house. I am sure as heck not going to pull the trigger on my 12 gauge while he is holding them though. So again although I consider the shotgun an important part of my defensive arsenal it may not be the first weapon I reach for in a home invasion. Just my 2 cents worth. [/I]

 

[kn1080]

My first 1200 rounds will come from my AR-15 ( I have kids so my wife gives me grief if I try to keep more than 40 mags loaded in the house). If I run out of ammo and need to continue shooting I will reach for my M+P 9. Then I reach for my Mossberg 500, Then, my KA-BAR.