1st gun, Home Defense, 12 Gauge or Handgun?


901-Memphis said:
Well i would like to shoot for recreation at the local gun range, so if i want to do that would it be better to purchase a handgun?

My thoughts are just that the shotgun are going to be more accurate when woke up out of your sleep and disoriented.

I have been looking at 18.5 inch barrel length shotguns around $300 and also handguns around the 9 mm size.

Anyone know what the minimum length is for a barrel on a shotgun? And would it be illegal to have a gun shop saw it off to the federal minimum for me? I am having all sorts of trouble finding these obscure laws for Kentucky.

If anyone knows about deadly force laws in Kentucky or any court cases of late, let me know i was googling my ass off.

My Other question.

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/deadly-force-law/10641-use-deadly-force-2.html




EDIT: Btw i found this on the barrel length on my own search but its still not clear to me what the minimum length is when done by a skilled person

United States

Under the National Firearms Act (NFA) it is illegal for a private citizen to possess a sawed-off modern smokeless powder shotgun (a barrel length less than 18 in. or 46 cm and an overall length less than 26 inches) without a tax-stamped permit from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which requires a background check and a $200.00 fee for every transfer. However, if the weapon was manufactured by a licensed builder, with a short barrel and no stock, the transfer fee is $5. [1] (Short-barreled muzzleloading blackpowder shotguns, in contrast, are not illegal by federal law and require no tax-stamped permit, although they may be illegal under state law.) As with all NFA regulated firearms, a new tax stamp must be purchased before every transfer. Inter-state transfers must be facilitated through a Class III Federal Firearms Licensed (FFL) dealer while intrastate transfers may be between two persons.[6]
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I think the length that you quoted looking at is the legal shortest length of a shot gun....Pretty sure...
 

Wolfling68 said:
on the .22 question, in most self defense situations, killing power isn't that important, stopping power is. You want a weapon that puts the BG on the ground fast. It doesn't help much if your assailant dies 10 min after he is finished removing your liver with a spoon........
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In ALL SD scenarios, marksmanship is paramount. Killing power is stopping power, the last I checked, someone that was dead.....stopped.

No round, unless taken in the head or through the spinal column, thus producing neural shock, guarantees an immediate take down. You can shoot a guy pumped up on methamphetamines in the guts or lungs and they will keep coming. You can shoot them in the heart and there is still a chance they can pull a trigger, provided they don't go into immediate shock, which is less likely because of the amount of adrenaline that is pumping.

Oxygen depletion IS NOT immediate, even if you stop someone's heart.

Head shots will end the threat. Two in the chest and one in the head and that's only if you don't have a clean first shot at the head.

Allow me to relate this REAL WORLD case of the large caliber not meaning JACK.

Trooper Mark Hunter Coates, South Carolina Highway Patrol

He murdured the officer with ONE shot from a .22

Of course, all due respect to the downed LEO.
 
matthewaynelson said:
I texted my buddy last night... he has the Sigma SW9VE. He said, "I've shot all my life and it shoots better than anything I have ever owned (including the Colt Commander that I owned). Shot one inch groups at 15 yards; my brother's Sig P226 shot a little over three inch groups! None of us could believe how smooth it was! No jams, even with hollow points. It’s the best Pistol I have ever owned! Let's go shooting!" :)



And, I definitely agree with Hoot! 22's are fine for target practice at the range and saving money on ammo—but, probably not the first choice in self defense!
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Got my Big W2 in the mail , just waiting on one other job to get in the mail which should have already been mailed. Was getting ready to jump on the S&W .40VE and the price is back up to $340 and now its just the 10 round mag instead of the 15

Smith & Wesson SW40VE .40SW Black/Stainless, 10 rd Calif LEGAL for Sale at Buds Gun Shop $339.00
 
Unfettered Might said:
Head shots will end the threat. Two in the chest and one in the head and that's only if you don't have a clean first shot at the head.
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Don't get the wrong idea.. The First shot should Go for Center mass (the chest area).. It is much harder to miss for you, and much harder for the BG to move.. You are not a Sniper.. Go for the chest..
 
The targets for the CHL in Texas teaches shooting for center mass. You get less points for a head shot than center mass. Center mass is easier to hit and there are a number of vital organs there. Shoot for center mass and keep shooting until the threat is stopped.
 
Unfettered Might said:
In ALL SD scenarios, marksmanship is paramount. Killing power is stopping power, the last I checked, someone that was dead.....stopped.

No round, unless taken in the head or through the spinal column, thus producing neural shock, guarantees an immediate take down. You can shoot a guy pumped up on methamphetamines in the guts or lungs and they will keep coming. You can shoot them in the heart and there is still a chance they can pull a trigger, provided they don't go into immediate shock, which is less likely because of the amount of adrenaline that is pumping.

Oxygen depletion IS NOT immediate, even if you stop someone's heart.

Head shots will end the threat. Two in the chest and one in the head and that's only if you don't have a clean first shot at the head.

Allow me to relate this REAL WORLD case of the large caliber not meaning JACK.

Trooper Mark Hunter Coates, South Carolina Highway Patrol

He murdured the officer with ONE shot from a .22

Of course, all due respect to the downed LEO.
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We are not talking about guarantees, we are talking probabilities. Which is more probable, you get killed by a mugger inside your gated community in the rich neighborhood in which you live, or you get killed while walking through the projects in the middle of the night with $20 haning out of your pockets while wearing Ralph Lauren? Probabilities. Which is more likely to stop someone in their tracks, a hit from a .22 or a hit from a .50? My money is on the .50 every time. I will lose the bet, once in a while, but I will win almost always.
Yes, a hit from a .22 is better than a miss from a .50 (usually, again probabilites), but a hit from a .50 is better than a hit from a .22. As far as head shots go, the head is a MUCH smaller target than center of mass. If you have the skill, more power to you. But you had better hit right around the nose, as a forhead hit has the possibility of bouncing off.
As a generality, bigger bullets stop more. We can have the 9mm vs 45 arguements all day, and all bullets are lethal, but bigger bullets stop faster.
 
I kind of want the Glock 22 now, but i really do want a new gun. Would probably get a almost new used 22 if i could find one. My local pawn shop is about as expensive as budsgunshop with their used guns.

How much do you get for a $500 Glock if you have to pawn it? Like $250?
 
22's will not bounce off

But you had better hit right around the nose, as a forhead hit has the possibility of bouncing off.
As a generality, bigger bullets stop more. We can have the 9mm vs 45 arguements all day, and all bullets are lethal, but bigger bullets stop faster.[/QUOTE]

Good Morning Wolfling68

I agree with just about everything except a bullet bouncing off a forhead.
I have shot alot of animals in the forhead beef, hogs, sheep, and goats with both pistols and rifles using 22 LR and I never had anything but one shot kills and never one bounced off.
I found a hollow point better than a solid because it will pass through the forhead and lodge in the brain and not on into the body area.
My wife handles her 12 gauge better than a pistol and if thing get serious so do I. We both keep ours loaded with 00Buck.
My everyday carry is a 9mm, but at home I go for the 12 ga.
 
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matthewaynelson said:
... And, I definitely agree with Hoot! 22's are fine for target practice at the range and saving money on ammo—but, probably not the first choice in self defense!
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Ditto! A 22 caliber hand gun or rifle might be hard pressed to stop a drug-crazed thief on the rampage from continuing to come at you once they break down the door or the window and they're inside your home. I believe that a shotgun is the best for HD. I'm saving my pennies to purchase one. Good luck and stay safe!
 
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OP was for home defense...period.Given that, a 12 gauge pump shotgun with an 18'5" or 20" barrel does the job better than anything else. As far as a a BG grabbing it when you approach him, you shouldn't be moving toward the BG. You should be firmly ensconced behind your bed and the shotgun is well out of his reach. Any of the major brands will be of good enough quality for the purpose. I have a Mossberg 500, but a Remington 870 or an H&R or any other would do just as well.
 
Just e-filed my taxes, so i will be making a purchase when it direct deposits, this web site took less than a week last time. :)
 
As I have said before I think a complete battery should have at minimum a handgun a shotgun and a good battle rifle. I have both pump and a semi auto shotgun in mine. There are times when a shotgun is the best choice but if a BG is holding my wife, kids or anyone for that matter at gun or knife point I am not going to blast away with a shotgun. In that case the handgun makes a lot more sense and seeing as how we are talking about the "if you only have one what would it be" then because of that fact the handgun is my choice. Not to mention the fact that I am not going to be taking the shotgun into the movies, grocery store or shopping at the mall. So again I want them all but if I had none and I could only get one right now then it would be a handgun hands down.
 
2beararms said:
Have you considered the Kel-Tec PF-9. They are often available under $300 new and Kel-Tec makes good guns.
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Well i really had my eyes set on the 12 gauge or a .40 cal handgun.

I had it narrowed down to the Glock 22 or the S&W 40 VE



Also with handgun ammunition being as scarce as it is around here i picked up a 50 count box of Winchester 180 GR. full metal jacket target/range ammo for $17.99 after tax at Walmart. Its almost impossible to find handgun ammunition at a reasonable price around here and this was about the last box of 40 S&W with there being nothing else left in handgun ammo period besides like 2 boxes of something in the 357 cal. Finding 9 mm ammo around here is expensive and rare.

So either way i was hoping to end up with something in the .40 S&W caliber based on all the research i have done.

Will be waiting for my taxes to hit any day now in my bank and probably take a drive to Lexington.
 
2beararms said:
Have you considered the Kel-Tec PF-9. They are often available under $300 new and Kel-Tec makes good guns.
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BTW thats one gun i haven't seen, have mostly been doing research on guns that i see a budsgunshop so i can pick them up myself an hour away, but that gun looks good if it came in a 40 S&W version, wonder if it does?
 
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