cowgrllost
New member
While not actually illegal, most of the banks in my area post "no firearms" and they have metal detectors so there is no getting around it.
Do you still conceal carry into posted "No Carry" businesses?
- Thread starter HappeScrapn
- Start date
- Status
While not actually illegal, most of the banks in my area post "no firearms" and they have metal detectors so there is no getting around it.
dogshawred
New member
Just this past December I was car shopping, looking at a 2013 Chrysler 300C that they were asking 24K to purchase. This dealership is owned by the same guy who owns 3 other dealerships all on the same road. After talking with the salesman and arranging a test drive, I asked where I would be able to get this vehicle serviced. Since all the doors, of all the dealerships owned (4 different buildings-9 manufactures) by this one guy had NO gun buster signs on them except the door to the service area that I would need to use.
~
I spoke with the General Manager about my service concerns and my dismay regarding their stance about guns in their service area. Accordingly I did not buy their car, but did buy a 2014 Chrysler 300 from another dealership 40+ miles away. This month I needed to warranty work done and I stopped by said dealership to see if my conversation made any difference. I am pleased to say that the gun buster sign is gone and I used their service department while OCing as this is my normal method of carry. No one gave me a second look and cleints in the waiting room discussed open carry with me, without any negative concerns.
~
If we speak up each of us can make a difference, but we must be politely vocal and be willing to stand our ground.
~
I spoke with the General Manager about my service concerns and my dismay regarding their stance about guns in their service area. Accordingly I did not buy their car, but did buy a 2014 Chrysler 300 from another dealership 40+ miles away. This month I needed to warranty work done and I stopped by said dealership to see if my conversation made any difference. I am pleased to say that the gun buster sign is gone and I used their service department while OCing as this is my normal method of carry. No one gave me a second look and cleints in the waiting room discussed open carry with me, without any negative concerns.
~
If we speak up each of us can make a difference, but we must be politely vocal and be willing to stand our ground.
B
Bikenut
Guest
Yes... as I said... mental masturbatory excuses in order to justify engaging in a selfishly convenient activity.
If you were intellectually honest about principle then you would respect that the property owner has the right to make rules that deny entry to those who carry guns. If a person doesn't respect the rule then the person also doesn't respect the right to make those rules. We have had this discussion so many times before Axe and I will ask these questions that I have asked in the past.............
If you are so sure you are acting on principle why do you feel it necessary to.... sneak .... your gun in concealed? Why don't you just man up and carry in openly and tell the property owner his "rules" as you call them have no power at all. Could it be that you know the property owner has the right and the legal power to throw you out on your arse and perhaps even have you arrested? Could it be that you know you have to .... sneak... your gun in and are using the excuse of standing on your principles while ignoring that you are being hypocritical about principle by ... sneaking... your gun in where it is not allowed because you know that if you had the balls to defy the property owner's rule you would be thrown out on your arse?
Go ahead and post yet another rant Axe.... but the bottom line is quite simple. If you truly believed what you say then you would not feel it necessary to .... sneak... your gun in.
Axeanda45
Banned
Actually, if you had any brain at all, you would KNOW FOR A FRIGGING FACT, because I have written it and I KNOW FOR A FACT YOU HAVE READ IT MANY TIMES< BECAUSE YOU COMMENT ON IT MOST OF THE TIME, that I very MUCH SUPPORT THE BUSINESS OWNERS RIGHT TO MAKE ANY EFFING RULE HE WANTS..... I just have the BRAINS vs you and those like you, to KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOMEONES "RULES" and what RIGHTS are..... WHY IN THE EFF DO YOU THINK THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT EFFING WORDS???????????
I do not "sneak" anything anywhere..... That is only a very lame thing you came up with to make yourself "feel" better about yourself for not standing up for your own rights, and to belittle me for doing what you dont have the balls to do......
BluesStringer
Les Brers
I hate it when this simple subject goes sideways every time it comes up, because probably 95% or better of the time, I agree with you Axe. We just don't agree on this. If you read dogshawred's post above, you will see a story of a man standing on his convictions, or showing the "balls" if you prefer, to assert all of his rights, including the right to exchange money with any business he chooses, or chooses not to, do business with. It takes no conviction whatsoever to sneak something past an unwitting business/property owner, it only takes the devious will to commit the offense.
As I said before, I have done the same thing before for my own convenience, so I get it, but that doesn't mean that I was any less devious in my intentions than you are being, while at the same time you are making character judgments about Bikenut and I guess me since I agree with him on this topic. I have no problem admitting that I was sneaking past someone who didn't want my business when I used to do it. Why is that such a sticking point with you? Nothing any of us says here is ever going to prevent you from continuing to practice your trespassing where you and your weapon(s) are unwelcome, so why make it personal?
Blues
B
Bikenut
Guest
My pointing out that you have to... sneak... your gun into a business where the owner has exercised his right to deny entry into his property to those who carry guns in order to avoid detection and suffering the consequences (being kicked out/trespassed/maybe arrested) is an indication that you know you are disrespecting the rights of someone just because it is an inconvenience for you to respect those rights isn't me making myself "feel" better......
it is pointing out that if you were intellectually honest you would stand on your principle and openly carry instead of .... sneaking... your gun in concealed in order to avoid detection.
But you go right ahead and use any mental masturbatory gymnastics to arrive at an excuse that will justify disrespecting the rights of someone else while shouting about your rights if it makes you .... feel ... better.
Truth is.... the property owner has the right to control who has, and who does not have, his permission to enter and that is reflected in rules concerning who is allowed on/in his property (with the exception of classes protected by law) and disrespecting the rules is disrespecting the property owner's right to be in control of his own property.
Worse yet.... shouting about YOUR right to bear arms and having such strong principles while ignoring/disrespecting a different right of someone else smacks of hypocrisy.
Bottom line ... you do what you want. You will anyway. Make whatever excuses for your behavior that makes you feel better. Just don't try blowing smoke up my butt about your having "principles" because your own postings about how you disrespect the property rights of someone else show otherwise.
Sad thing is... just like Blues... I have great respect for many of your beliefs yet on this one issue you just won't open your eyes to the ridiculousness of demanding your favorite right be respected while coming up with silly excuses to justify disrespecting someone elses favorite right.
Axe... either we respect ALL the rights of ALL the people or we are just like the anti gunners who only respect the rights they like and disrespect the rights they don't like ... especially if a right happens to cause them some kind of inconvenience.
Peggy Reist
New member
Although I've kept up with this thread, sort of, I don't think I ever really weighed in on it. To answer, you must understand that in Kansas, the signs do not carry the weight of the law. Except for the Post Office, I would carry anywhere else, even the bank. Yes it has a sign, not an official one, but one none the less. The most they can do if I were to refuse to leave after they saw my gun (they won't) would be to arrest me for trespassing. They cannot arrest me for carrying a gun even though it's posted.
By now I'm sure you've heard that Kansas will have Constitutional Carry starting the 1st of July. So this will probably become a lot more common. The businesses that are posted are becoming even less common all the time. I can now carry in the court house, but not the Farm Services building. Go figure.
By now I'm sure you've heard that Kansas will have Constitutional Carry starting the 1st of July. So this will probably become a lot more common. The businesses that are posted are becoming even less common all the time. I can now carry in the court house, but not the Farm Services building. Go figure.
Axeanda45
Banned
Your reply is well thought out and civil, however, it is based on a very false, untrue ASSUMPTION by you where YOU CONFUSE someones "rights" with the "rules" they have..... If someone makes a "rule" it does not trump someone elses RIGHTS... You ALWAYS TOTALLY IGNORE THAT VERY IMPORTANT DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE 2.... You base your ENTIRE argument on a FLAWED ASSUMPTION, and you are 100% WRONG in your conclusions because of it....
B
Bikenut
Guest
the property owner has the right to control his/her property by denying entry to someone. That is truth. The rules the property owner makes are how he exercises his right. Your... sneaking... in a gun just for your own personal convenience is you disobeying the property owner's rules and, by doing so, disrespecting his right to control his property.
Axe... one more time... either we respect ALL the rights of ALL the people or we are just like the anti gunners who pick and choose which rights they will respect and disrespect the rights they don't like ... especially if a right happens to cause them some kind of inconvenience. Disrespecting the property owner's right to control his property through the use of rules just because we don't like it or it is inconvenient for us is exactly what anti gunners do with their disrespect of the 2nd amendment.
And Axe... you can engage in all the mental masturbation you want in order to justify disrespecting the favorite right of others while demanding your favorite right be respected just because respecting someone elses right is inconvenient for you. But you aren't fooling anyone but yourself.
And it saddens me to see anyone, and there are some on this forum, who say they are a supporter of the right to bear arms actively supporting the enemies of that right by contributing to anti gun shopkeepers profits.
Axeanda45
Banned
He can make ANY rule he wants.... That is his RIGHT.... I can carry a firearm ANYWHERE I PLEASE, That is MY RIGHT.... I havent infringed on ANYONES RIGHTS if I do so where a "property owner" wishes me not to.... It does him ZERO HARM, THEREFORE I HAVE BROKEN NOTHING BUT RULES....
BluesStringer
Les Brers
I'm getting dizzy......
B
Bikenut
Guest
Incorrect... you can only carry a firearm anywhere you ... and I mean YOU PERSONALLY as in your physical body... are allowed to be. If you are not allowed to be on/in private property because there is a rule that says you do not have permission to be there if you are carrying a gun then you are not allowed to be there. Get caught (is it the getting caught part the reason you ... sneak... your gun in?) being there in violation of that rule and the property owner will toss you out because you have done more than break a rule. You have disrespected his right to control who has, and who doesn't have, permission to be on/in his property.
And it is the denying permission to enter that is the property owner's right that you are disrespecting by ... sneaking... your gun in.
One more time Axe... if you truly believe that you have the right to carry you gun anywhere you please then why are you ... sneaking... your gun in instead of manning up and carrying it in the open? Answer that question please.
B
Bikenut
Guest
Are you saying:
Hooray for your rights (right to bear arms) and to hell with mine (property rights)?
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
If someone took your firearms, and nothing happened to you, were your rights infringed?
Sent from my D6616 using USA Carry mobile app
B
Bikenut
Guest
A property owner has the right to control who is given his permission to enter his property. The property owner makes known who does NOT have his permission with rules/signs. Those who do not have his permission to enter but enter anyway are, in effect, taking the control of who has permission to enter away from the owner by giving themselves that permission. And that is not only disrespecting the property owner's right to control his property but is infringing upon that right by deciding the owner doesn't have the right to deny them permission.
And.................
Those who... sneak... their gun in concealed so the property owner doesn't know are very well aware they do not have the owner's permission or there would be no reason to... sneak... the gun in.
Now... there is no way anyone could deny that patronizing an anti gun business, whether ... sneaking... in a gun or not, contributes to the profit made by that business. Which is basically a pro gun person supporting an anti gun agenda with their economic (profits) shopping power. The logic of working to further the right to keep and bear arms while handing money (profits) to an anti gun business while complaining there are anti gun businesses escapes me completely.
Thing is... we all make decisions and that is how people work. But it is very dismaying to see so many folks supporting the anti gun agenda by shopping at anti gun businesses just out of selfish convenience .. and then complain about the anti gun agenda and anti gun businesses.
And.................
Those who... sneak... their gun in concealed so the property owner doesn't know are very well aware they do not have the owner's permission or there would be no reason to... sneak... the gun in.
Now... there is no way anyone could deny that patronizing an anti gun business, whether ... sneaking... in a gun or not, contributes to the profit made by that business. Which is basically a pro gun person supporting an anti gun agenda with their economic (profits) shopping power. The logic of working to further the right to keep and bear arms while handing money (profits) to an anti gun business while complaining there are anti gun businesses escapes me completely.
Thing is... we all make decisions and that is how people work. But it is very dismaying to see so many folks supporting the anti gun agenda by shopping at anti gun businesses just out of selfish convenience .. and then complain about the anti gun agenda and anti gun businesses.
mappow
New member
The private property owner that allows public access can and has the right to some limitations of so called access. The private property owner that has posted to the general public has the right to limit access as well. The private property owner that has a residential/commercial property is also allowed to restrict access as he/she sees fit. (actually NOT, If I open my door to one, I must open my door to all.)
I really don't see where this is going. "Do you still conceal carry into posted "No Carry" businesses?". I will neither confirm or deny. I am a law abiding citizen.
I really don't see where this is going. "Do you still conceal carry into posted "No Carry" businesses?". I will neither confirm or deny. I am a law abiding citizen.
B
Bikenut
Guest
Some folks say that if they ... sneak... a gun into a business that has denied permission to enter to those who carry a gun that they are not breaking any laws. However....
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/trespass
Trespass
Trespass is defined by the act of knowingly entering another person’s property without permission. Such action is held to infringe upon a property owner’s legal right to enjoy the benefits of ownership. Criminal charges, which range from violation to felony, may be brought against someone who interferes with another person’s legal property rights. -snip-
Bold added by me for emphasis
By that definition a person who knows the property owner is denying permission to enter for those who carry a gun but .. sneak... in a gun anyway are engaging in the act of trespass.
There are laws that assess penalties to the act of trespass so the act of trespass is, or could be , (depending on the laws of the various States) breaking trespass law. So a person who is in the act of trespass is/could be breaking trespass law.
When the penalties for breaking trespass law and/or how the trespass law must be applied before penalties can be assessed depends on the laws of the various States.
But the point is... a person may not violate a firearms law (depends on the various States firearms laws) by ... sneaking... in a gun into property where those who carry a gun do not have the owner's permission but they still might be violating a trespass law.
And... when a person is asked to leave by the property owner or his representative isn't when the trespass happened.... the person was already in the act of trespass when the owner/representative caught them at it and asked them to leave. The getting caught/being asked to leave might (depends on various State laws) be the legal point where penalties will/could/might be assessed for the act of trespass.
So it might be a good idea to check your State's trespass laws before deciding to...sneak... a gun into/onto property that denies permission to those who carry guns.
And Axe, you said ... sneaking.... your gun in doesn't infringe upon the property owner's property rights?
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/trespass
Trespass
Trespass is defined by the act of knowingly entering another person’s property without permission. Such action is held to infringe upon a property owner’s legal right to enjoy the benefits of ownership. -snip-
bold added by me for emphasis.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/trespass
Trespass
Trespass is defined by the act of knowingly entering another person’s property without permission. Such action is held to infringe upon a property owner’s legal right to enjoy the benefits of ownership. Criminal charges, which range from violation to felony, may be brought against someone who interferes with another person’s legal property rights. -snip-
Bold added by me for emphasis
By that definition a person who knows the property owner is denying permission to enter for those who carry a gun but .. sneak... in a gun anyway are engaging in the act of trespass.
There are laws that assess penalties to the act of trespass so the act of trespass is, or could be , (depending on the laws of the various States) breaking trespass law. So a person who is in the act of trespass is/could be breaking trespass law.
When the penalties for breaking trespass law and/or how the trespass law must be applied before penalties can be assessed depends on the laws of the various States.
But the point is... a person may not violate a firearms law (depends on the various States firearms laws) by ... sneaking... in a gun into property where those who carry a gun do not have the owner's permission but they still might be violating a trespass law.
And... when a person is asked to leave by the property owner or his representative isn't when the trespass happened.... the person was already in the act of trespass when the owner/representative caught them at it and asked them to leave. The getting caught/being asked to leave might (depends on various State laws) be the legal point where penalties will/could/might be assessed for the act of trespass.
So it might be a good idea to check your State's trespass laws before deciding to...sneak... a gun into/onto property that denies permission to those who carry guns.
And Axe, you said ... sneaking.... your gun in doesn't infringe upon the property owner's property rights?
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/trespass
Trespass
Trespass is defined by the act of knowingly entering another person’s property without permission. Such action is held to infringe upon a property owner’s legal right to enjoy the benefits of ownership. -snip-
bold added by me for emphasis.
Axeanda45
Banned
You arent smart enough to know the answer? Here is a hint if you really are this effing ignorant about RIGHTS: I (you) do NOT have the RIGHT to not have THINGS stolen from us.... PERHAPS your confusion has lead you to a different conclusion, and that is WHY you keep spouting off things about stuff that have NOTHING to do with RIGHTS, yet you think they do....
We DO HOWEVER have the RIGHT to defend our "things" from theft...
- Status
