Do you know any states that don't require a permit to carry a pistol the size of MA. I think the size of the state might have an effect on this comparison. I check the populations. I'm sure the fact that AZ is a border state may also effect the numbers. The only thing smuggled in MA. is grapes in P-Town
open carry
- Thread starter seeley booth
- Start date
I do the same thing but I put my pants on, gun on, then my shirt. My wife's brother was just stationed in Washington. He said he bought a Glock .45 cal. 15+1 using a guy from his units address. He said Washinton was very firearm friendly. He said the prices for ammo are a lot cheaper in MA.
Not if you calculate the rate of what you are trying to compare per unit of population. 1 out of 10,000 population is still 1 out of 10,000 whether the population is 1 million or 10 million.
You're telling me that you think anyone that's an American citizen should be allowed to carry a loaded pistol in public, with no training/education on firearm safety, convicted rapist, child molester, bank robber any ex con. no restrictions???
NotTwoShure
Well-known member
Open carry in Arizona for over 100 years. CC carry in Arizona with out a permit for a few years. Convicted felons, gang-bangers and other prohibited persons may still carry illegally if they don't get caught just as it is in every state. I still think it odd that a minor girl that becomes "With Child" may kill her unborn baby in some states without her parents knowing but the same girl, underage, may not protect herself with a dreaded gun of the hand. (If it saves one child, it is the right thing to do?)
That has absolutely nothing to do with the 3 additional questions I posed to you.
I'm not on a computer I'm on my phone that will autocorrect some words and replace with words used more commonly by your devise. It also changed proned to probed on one post someone pointed out. Ha I just looked back that was my fault. I thought it looked funny bear as in the animal I thought bare was the correct spelling. I was looking at the constitution or a dictionary. Nor was I allowed to goto college. My father said we were to poor made me join the Navy right out of high school. I apologize for using the wrong spelling of a word. I take you got my point misspelled or not. That's all that matters in a world of 1s & 0s
Sorry wife's at work I'm watching my 2 year old. I was just skimming. I will take the time to read in depth your post after she goes to bed.
Here's a good start for your research:
United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2013
Of particular interest:
Rate and Rank of Violent Crime 1960 - 2013 for 50 US States
At the top of the list is New York, ranking #1 or #2 highest state in the United States for rate of violent crimes from 1965 to 1992. Guess which state had the first every pistol permit system? New York. The Sullivan Act in 1911. Care to guess who Big Tim Sullivan was that sponsored the pistol permit system? He was a crooked politician who was also a mob boss. He created the pistol permit system in New York to protect the organized criminals who paid him from the immigrants who had began carrying guns and shooting back at the mobsters. By enacting the pistol permit system he could disarm the victims who would not violate the law anyway and make them easier targets. His pistol permit system was "may issue" with a judge being the issuing authority, so it was very easy to pay judges to deny permits to the victims.
Illinois: consistently ranked 6th to 7th highest violent crime rate. What is Illinois famous for? Strict gun control laws.
You can also compare Massachusetts to Vermont. Ranking of MA : it bounces all over the place but looks like an average of about 15th in the country for highest violent crime rate. Ranking of VT: average 48th or 49th. What is Vermont famous for? Constitutional carry of firearms.
Look at the violent crime rate nationwide over the years. What happened when the Federal Gun Control Act was passed in 1968? The rate of violent crime continued to increase for nearly the next 30 years.
Now, can any of this be realistically determined to be due to firearms laws alone? No, of course not.
Sorry. I get home at 4 wife leaves at 4:30 I have to cook for, clean up after, bath, entertain and put to bed a 2 year old not to mention the every 10 minutes "I need go potty". She actually likes potty training. The only time I had to read and respond was when Peppa Pig had her attention. I wasn't able to read fully and respond as needed.
1)You can keep and "bear" arms without carrying a loaded firearm in a public area.
2)you are correct. I'm sure when the 2nd Amendment was written they were referring to muskets and flintlock pistols. Not preserving the right for some gangbanger just out of jail to walk in a gun store and legally purchase an auto-pistol with extended mag. No need for a trigger lock. It will be tossed in the river after the drive by . Why not hand out UZIs for Halloween.
3)why put regulations on the drinking age or driving age? Some regulations are necessary when the safety/health of the public is concerned. I'm sure most of the people who are responsible for making such regulations, seeing how they already exist, would agree with me. I'm pretty right wing but if you're going to sit there and tell me you think a convicted rapist, armed robber or drug dealer should be allowed to walk out of prison, into basspro and walk out with a pistol and box of ammo, strap up and go out in public....I will have to disagree. I think that about covers it. If I missed anything sorry. I already apologized for misspelling a word in a previous post.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
Awww, bless his little heart (thanks for reminding me about manners Fallschirmjäger). This is what he calls "pissy" and "talking S&$@."
There was no lack of "Likes" from members of this forum on that post (9 as of this writing). It was direct, but polite, and everybody who OC's knows that it was accurate too in that the post I was replying to promulgates more than one myth that is debunked as being based in ignorance nearly every time a newbie comes into the OC sub-forum to comment on that which he/she never practices in daily life.
The "talking S&$@" came in his reply to me, not the other way around:
I answered the first two questions with a bit of sarcasm, as-evidenced by two prominent "LOLs" immediately following the most cutting jabs, and then told him that he'd stopped after the first two questions in #3, I'd have taken him seriously and answered politely, but oops, he didn't stop there and earned from me the sarcastic and dismissive jabs he got. Now he's whining about it and trying to reverse him giving me a bunch of crap as me giving it to him. I simply responded in kind.
I'll turn 60 in a couple of weeks MHas, and I still have my hair and all my own teeth. I've never lived in a trailer in my life. My wife, however, grew up in a trailer. Guess where that was? In South Hampton, Massa-freakin'-chusetts, that's where! Yeah, I married Yankee scum, so I get to joke about it. Now would be a good time to unbunch your panties! LOL Our home is on the market right now so that we can buy some acreage out in the sticks where we won't have to put up with butt-hurt urbanites who cower in fear of public servants in their own employ. And I'm perfectly willing, not desirous, but willing, to have a cop ask me why I'm OC'ing. None have yet, and I hope they never do, but if/when they do, I will guaran-damn-tee ya that I will come out on top, either by walking away with my rights fully intact after they did the right thing by cutting me loose within seconds of initiating the contact, or with a few thousand bucks in my pocket after I win a harassment suit against them.
Why are you so scared of your servants? Perhaps you should take it "apon" yourself to train them better.
Umm.....Huh? Criminals who are prohibited from purchasing or possessing a firearm can't "legally" purchase or possess a firearm. The measures your state has taken is to control you, the person who presumably has done nothing to have any legal restrictions placed upon him. You yourself say above that BGCs and fingerprinting won't prevent criminals from getting guns, it's already illegal for criminals to acquire guns anyway, so honest question, who do you really think the laws are meant to control? Any other answer than "law abiding citizens" is wrong!
Taking the last point first, this is a general forum. Unless the OP makes an attempt to limit the scope of discussion to a specific state or a specific issue concerning OC, discussion is open to everybody about and/or from anywhere. You know, just like you tried to bait us who have no fingerprint, training, and for open carry at least, permission slip requirements, by saying our states should adapt to the highly-restrictive laws you seem to be bragging about having to live under the thumb of.
As to this "education," how much classroom time is required? How much time and/or how many rounds fired at the range to qualify for a permission slip?
What's the total cost of acquiring all the classroom and range "training" you have to go through to get papered?
How long does the whole process take, including classroom, "training," application, fingerprinting, on through to finally getting permission from your state to exercise your God-given rights?
As to the "training," the only thing you say it teaches is, "...what to do during an encounter with law enforcement while carrying a loaded pistol." What, if anything, does the state teach its permittees about what to do during an encounter with an armed assailant, or during an otherwise potentially deadly encounter? Because when most on this forum think of "training," that's what matters more than anything, is tactical training, not when to say "Yes Sir, here's my bought and paid for permission slip so's I can exercise my God-given rights, Officer. Would you like me to polish your boots while you're running my papers, Officer?" (sorry, couldn't resist)
Blues
Are these crimes committed with legally owned firearms by legally licensed citizens? Although your stats are interesting and close to what I was looking for. Corruption in the system would obviously have irrelevant stats. Now that you said all this, i am actually now leaning towards the other side. Stricter gun laws=larger demand for illegal guns, larger demand for illegal guns=more illegal guns imported for larger profit margins. Although stricter gun laws decreases accessibility of legal firearms to criminals maybe it does increase the number of illegal guns. Thank you for looking that up.
I will give you that one, in regards to the 2nd Amendment. However, one must consider the right of a person to be able to defend themselves from a criminal and that right does not stop at one's doorstep. My personal belief is that denying the person the legal ability to carry a loaded firearm in public is denying them the most effective means they have available to protect themselves from criminals. Some courts agree with my opinion, some don't. But that isn't the purpose of the 2nd Amendment.
You don't seem to understand the reason the 2nd Amendment was written. You have to go back to the Declaration of Independence and understand who wrote the 2nd Amendment and what they had just accomplished. The Declaration of Independence states: "But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." The men who wrote the 2nd Amendment had just overthrown the British government by force using the exact sames arms that the British government had available to resist with. The 2nd Amendment was written to ensure that the government would never take away from the citizen the ability to overthrow that government which means that the citizen was meant to be allowed to be armed to the same extent as the government. That purpose of the 2nd Amendment has already been infringed upon by the government to such an extent that the citizen will not be able to carry out their rights and duties to overthrow the government should it become tyrannical and the need to do so arise.
Care to discuss what the well regulated militia refers to?
Drinking and driving are not rights protected by the Constitution. Even so the Constitution generally only protects most rights for persons over the age of 18. There is no evidence that firearms regulations specified in law make anyone safer. Where was all the blood flowing in the streets prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968 that was stopped by it? Why isn't enough to make it illegal to commit a criminal act with a firearm rather than make it illegal to possess the firearm?
Of course they would, that's why they made such regulations. That doesn't mean that there is any evidence to suggest that such regulations were necessary or that they have been effective since they were passed.
If the people that you speak of are so dangerous then why are they released to walk the streets among the public largely unsupervised? Your exact reason that you say we need all these laws against carrying firearms loaded in public is because these people have a propensity for violating the law. So if they won't obey the law that makes it illegal to murder or rape someone, why will they obey the law that makes it illegal for them to buy a firearm or get a background check to buy or carry one? What does the law requiring a person to have a background check to buy or carry a gun actually accomplish? It puts more roadblocks in the way of people who will voluntarily comply with the law and tie up law enforcement resources doing those background checks. They do nothing to actually hinder the criminal.
Every crime that is committed with a gun is a crime committed with a gun that is illegally possessed because, as far as I know, it is illegal in all 50 states to possess a weapon with the intention of committing a crime with it.
Be my guest, post anything you want. Talk about your lawn care. Just don't respond to a post about MA. Open carry with irrelevant facts, stats and opinions from another state. Actually you can post what you want just don't expect a serious, educated, thoughtfull response when your post has nothing to do with the conversation. These MA. gun laws are not highly restrictive for law abiding citizens. Only highly restrictive for convicts and felons. I still don't see the problem with this. Maybe it's because I'm a law abiding not a convict. Maybe I should have my brother who's a convict, drug dealer and junky. He's not even allowed to own a low capacity long gun for another 2 years. Our required education was 1-4hr class along with range time, 16 rounds. 6 from revolver 10 from semi-auto pistol. Only 5 yards. I think our target was 6"x8". Some towns require you to present your target along with course certificate. Wether you get your LTC is actually 100% up to the chief of police of the town you reside. The state doesn't. Your issued LTC is valid state wide. After your course completion you have a meeting with the chief, you fill out a form and scan your fingerprints. If the FBI check passes, in 4 weeks you get your unrestricted class A large capacity License to carry. Total cost of course and application $200 small price to pay to be able to purchase, own or posses everything except machine guns. It also permits you to open/concealed carry a loaded handgun. The educational/training course teaches you alot more. You can look it up at massfirearmsschool.com I thought the MA. gun law section was most helpful. They have multiple course. Basice firearms safety, responding to active shoot, they have courses for everything. Only the firearms safety course is required by the state to receive LTC. That course just briefly goes over the topics you mentioned. Sounds like you'd like people to graduate the police academy in order to carry...
What if there was no intent? Not all crimes are committed with intent.
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Not quite...I'll fix it for you.
Put my clothes on.
Drive to the gun class, $2 fuel, 20 min drive.
5 hours later, $150+, I'm free from class.
Drive to chiefs office, $2 fuel, 20 min drive.
30 minute meeting, fingerprints $10.
Drive home, $2 fuel, 20 minute drive.
.
.
.
.
.
4 weeks later...permission slip arrives. Put on gun, open carry.
How much does ammo cost there?
Sent from my D6616 using USA Carry mobile app
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
FYI, terms such as: cowboy, playing cop, big gun, redneck, etc etc.
Terms like that do not look like a pro stance.
Sent from my D6616 using USA Carry mobile app
Terms like that do not look like a pro stance.
Sent from my D6616 using USA Carry mobile app
We were told that if you are legally carrying a pistol and see 1 person shooting at another. You draw, fire and kill the person who was shooting at the other but it turns out that both parties are actually drug dealers fighting over turf. Since you chose to use deadly force to protect an "innocent" and the party you were protecting was not an innocent but a criminal, you will be arrested for murder. That's just an example of crime committed with a firearm without intent.
k
I just got a box of 25 Hornady 9mm 124 gr XTP for $14.99. It all depends tho. That was a sale they had. The send email news letters with odd sales all the time. I spend $4.99 for 50 Aguila .22 cal. 40 gr superextra it's made in Mexico but by fare my favorite .22 rounds. Never a failure to feed never failure to fire. Most reliable .22 round I've found for my sr22
