Point shooting
- Thread starter stratsrock
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apvbguy
New member
why you can't wait outside for 12 minutes?
it is even wiser not to enter a dangerous situation unnecessarily?
hey train your butt off, do whatever you care to, people make choices everyday, some are good, some are foolish
nothing I own is worth putting myself into a confrontation
Nice quote that you are misconstruing, it is not really applicable. nice try
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Bikenut
Guest
A general comment not directed at any individual or individuals......
Perhaps the most dangerous threat to this nation is folks who look at everything from the perspective that if it doesn't affect ME, or if I don't think it is useful or necessary, or if it has no value for ME............ then it isn't important for anyone but whatever I think is good, useful, and the correct way to do things should be what everyone should do.
Some folks will never have a reason to clear their house... but that doesn't mean their neighbor (or fellow poster on the internet) won't/doesn't have a very valid reason to clear his house.
And point shooting is merely a description of aiming without using a traditional sighting system (iron sights/laser) regardless of if it is done from the hip/against the ribs where the gun can't be seen at all or with the arm extended. If the sights weren't used then it was "point shooting".
I hate to use Wiki but ...
Point shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Point shooting
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Point shooting, also called threat focused shooting, is a method of shooting a firearm that relies on a shooter's instinctive reactions, kinematics, and the use of biomechanics that can be employed effectively in life-threatening emergencies to quickly engage close targets.
This method of shooting is recognized for use in life-threatening situations where the use of sight shooting cannot be employed due to lack of time to use the gun's sights, low-light conditions, or because of the body's natural reaction to close quarters threats which prevent meeting the marksmanship requirements of sight shooting.
Perhaps the most dangerous threat to this nation is folks who look at everything from the perspective that if it doesn't affect ME, or if I don't think it is useful or necessary, or if it has no value for ME............ then it isn't important for anyone but whatever I think is good, useful, and the correct way to do things should be what everyone should do.
Some folks will never have a reason to clear their house... but that doesn't mean their neighbor (or fellow poster on the internet) won't/doesn't have a very valid reason to clear his house.
And point shooting is merely a description of aiming without using a traditional sighting system (iron sights/laser) regardless of if it is done from the hip/against the ribs where the gun can't be seen at all or with the arm extended. If the sights weren't used then it was "point shooting".
I hate to use Wiki but ...
Point shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Point shooting
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Point shooting, also called threat focused shooting, is a method of shooting a firearm that relies on a shooter's instinctive reactions, kinematics, and the use of biomechanics that can be employed effectively in life-threatening emergencies to quickly engage close targets.
This method of shooting is recognized for use in life-threatening situations where the use of sight shooting cannot be employed due to lack of time to use the gun's sights, low-light conditions, or because of the body's natural reaction to close quarters threats which prevent meeting the marksmanship requirements of sight shooting.
It is all in the "english". I could not care less what anyone else wants to do in their house, in defense of themselves etal. This is a discussion forum and I tell you what I believe and usually try to end with "hey you do what you do, and I do what I do". If the "english" does not get that across this is somehow a big problem? This translates to the "most dangerous problems" facing the nation? Progressive liberals, who run this country under our narcissistic moslem communist thug are the problem, not the people on this forum who have opinions but, for the most part, are in agreement on 2A and self defense and the dangers this country faces.
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Bikenut
Guest
And don't the folks I put in bold in your post fit the description of me, ME, ME!! kind of people that I described in my post above?
Truth be told.... I've seen some folks on this and many other forums who also fit that me, ME, ME!!!, description. They say they are for the 2nd Amendment but only in the way they personally think is "reasonable", "appropriate", and "acceptable".
mappow
New member
Yes but as the Sheriff said to us as well as an old adage, when seconds count, LEO's are minutes away. It's only me, the wife and the Sheppard. You will get bit, shot or probably both. We don't care if your 16 to 80 deaf, blind and crazy. You break into my house expect lead poisoning.
apvbguy
New member
so you are saying that you would enter your house knowing that there were dangerous people insider and not knowing where they were in that house? ok, good for you, I would wait for as long as it took for the cops to arrive and let them handle securing the home.
Rhino
New member
Some car alarms have that. The large parking lot for one maintenance hangar facilities at Offutt Air Force Base was adjacent to the runway. We had big aircraft but occasionally fighters would come through. It was funny to be out in the parking lot when a fighter lit the afterburners. 50 different car alarms going off at once.
wolf_fire
New member
You assume you are not in your house when your alarm goes off.
second question... same assumption. Even if this is the case, why would I let the guy that is in my house that much extra time to get away? Why would I let that guy that much extra time to abuse what I have worked so hard for? And no, many of my possessions cannot be replaced. You mention going into a dangerous situation unnecessarily. More people are killed by drunk drivers every year than in home invasions, heck by firearms in all circumstances. Does this keep you off the street? Have you stopped driving since this would put you in a dangerous situation, unnecessarily?
Yes, I will train to defend and protect those that I love, because when you need the police in seconds they will be there when they finish their donuts or even later.
Am I misquoting relying on the government for my security rather than myself and in essence giving up liberty? No, I am not. I am I misquoting that anytime you let a police officer into your home, then you have waived your 4th Amendment rights and gave them express permission to rummage through your belongings? No I am not. It's not a nice try, it's a good and applicable quote. When you depend on the government for your security whether on a grand scale or a personal scale then when that cop goes into your house you give up your liberty; it's called waiving the 4th Amendment, as in good bye, as in everything they find can and will be used against you whether it was actually there or not. Yes, some cops do plant evidence if they are tired of someone.
Here's the other thing. Not all police officers are honorable. You have a supposed break in at your house. You call the cavalry as you had put it earlier. They come in. Are you getting the honorable cop or the dishonest one? Will they, while rummaging through your house with you fretting outside, not have the perfect opportunity to take a few things themselves? In fact, don't they purposely tell you to wait outside... oh yes, for your safety while they go in. This gives them carte blanche access to what you own without you peering over their shoulder. I for one try to keep all strangers out of my house regardless of what shiny piece of metal they wear on their shirt.
I know you know I volunteer as a deputy for my Sheriff in our Reserve Division. I have seen and heard things that disgust me from cops. I try to defend most cops, since most do try to do their job honorably. But there are some nasty stinking low lives in this profession, and I don't want to roll the dice on which one gets to rummage through my things. But, hey in your neck of the woods in NJ, the cops might be all wonderful and honorable people. If this is the case, more power to you. For me, they will stay out of my house.
apvbguy
New member
if I am in my home when a break in occurs I will be forced to confront the intruder at the break in point, there is not going to be a house clearing.
why??? is putting your life at risk over your possessions really a wise move? maybe you think it is, I certainly don't. at the end of life we all wind up in the same sized hole and believe it or not your valued possessions cannot come for the ride.
as for your analogy, if you really feel that your driving places you are a high risk of being killed, STOP DRIVING!
same reply as last time, I will not enter into a situation that will put me into imminent danger especially when I have no idea where the threat will come from. if it takes the donut munchers an hour to respond, I'll wait outside for an hour.
balance of rant snipped
I don't remember the name of the Airfield at Fort Lewis (they filmed the end of To Hell and Back on it) but they used to have C5s to touch and goes there and every time they did it would set off all the car alarms in the parking lot outside our barracks
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Bikenut
Guest
So first you say you will confront the bad guy at the break in point. But can you get out of bed and get to that break in point before the bad guy has the opportunity to move around enough to not even be in the same room he broke into before you get there? And would you just rush to the break in point without clearing the distance in between your bed and that break in point?
And you have also said:
Soooo... have you afforded yourself of any training for responding to a break in while you are home? While you are asleep?
Oh... and you also said:
and you also said:
So which is it? Will you go to where the bad guy broke in (without clearing the way as you go) to confront the bad guy at the point of entry (if he hasn't moved into the rest of the house before you get there)?
Or will you run outside and wait for the police?
Just out of curiosity....
What would you suggest the parents of a young girl do if they wake up to her screaming because she is being raped in the night... but her bedroom is at the other end of the house from the master bedroom?
Should they call the cops and cower in the master bedroom while their daughter is raped and/or killed before the cops can get there?
Should they run outside and wait while their daughter is raped and/or killed before the cops can get there?
Or should they have trained themselves on how to clear the way through all the hiding places/choke points that are between the master bedroom and their daughter's bedroom and proceed to go to the aid of their daughter because they can get to her much faster than the cops can?
Just to be slightly on topic...
Point shooting is a good tool to use within the confines of a home where any confrontation is going to be at relatively close range... perhaps under poor/low light conditions... and using the sights to get a good sight picture before firing at an attacking intruder would likely be difficult at best and could slow a person's response enough to be disastrous.
His response does assume he's not in the house when the alarm goes off and he phrased his answer taking that into account.
I have watched a couple of people die in my life and I have yet to hear anyone say “Man I really wish I could see all my stuff just one more time.” on the way out. I don’t own anything, one way or the other it’s all going away. Why in the hell would I risk my life trying to keep it for a little bit longer?
You are conflating two entirely different scenarios here a burglary and a home invasion are two entirely different beasts (you’d think a cop would know that). A burglar does not want you to know they are there where a home invade doesn’t give adman and is likely coming right at you. Thus two entirely different responses are appropriate
Again two different scenarios protecting and defending those you love is not the same as going into a house where no one you love is in to confront a burglar who may or may not be there.
Doesn't matter if the cops or the crook steals it it the insurance money is still green
You keep throwing this scenario up but how often does it really happen? How often does some random rapist pick a house and have all the stars align that it’s the one house where this scenario could happen?
If I was that concerned about an event as comparatively rare as that happening I wouldn’t have purchased a home with that layout in the first place. In fact even though I'm not concerned about that I don't want my daughter on the other side of the house where she could sneak out or sneak a boy in anyway.
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Bikenut
Guest
Ummm... don't we carry guns in case the "rare" incident of having to defend ourselves happens to us?
Yes... I keep throwing up that scenario because that is the reality for some folks. As for not buying a house with the bedrooms arranged like that? Good point.... yet there are still people who's homes are arranged like that. So what are they to do?
So.. whether we personally don't have to face a situation/scenario doesn't mean someone else might not have to. And to say that clearing the house is something best left to the cops is to deny that not everyone's situation is the same.
And... if we are going to say that training is a good thing then training that fits a person's personal circumstances, even if it doesn't fit in our own world, would still be a good thing. Correct?
True
If I am honestly that concerned about facing that scenario I move my daughter out of danger rather than plan how I’m going to respond to the rape in progress. If I can’t move I do everything I can to make it difficult for the rapist to get in, in the first place but ultimately if I feel that the house my family is in is that unsafe I Get them TF out.
Clearing a house is always best left to the cops or the infantry. Unfortunately the best option isn’t always available and when it isn’t you do what you are required to do. I have never had to clear a house alone, I’ve only ever done it with 6 or 7 heavily armed guys doing it with me using grenades and automatic weapons and even under those circumstances I wouldn’t do it if I had any other option.
Almost. Realistic training that fits our circumstances is a good thing I train my kids what to do for tornados or forest fires . Tsunamis ? Not so much.
Remember, I’m not saying never. What I have been saying is don’t do it unless you have no choice and expect to be doing it under fire
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Bikenut
Guest
Fair enough....
If you will recall I've never said "always" in reference to clearing the house. I'm only pointing out there are circumstances where having the cops clear the house is silly... and, on the other end of the spectrum, never clearing the house is unacceptable.
For those folks who have a house with the parents at one end and the kids at the other wouldn't it be "realistic" to train for the possibility it may be necessary to respond to the "rare" occurrence of one, or more, of their kids being attacked? By the way... it doesn't have to be an intruder attacking a person's kids... date rape happens at home too.
The other thing is many folks return home.... without bothering to look at the back of the house for broken windows/breached doors... unlock the door and walk in dumb and happy because they expect the alarm to work (but alarms can fail/be circumvented) and it would be "realistic" for everyone to know where all the hiding places/choke points are in their home and how to respond for the "rare" occurrence of someone already inside.
A general comment about "realistic training"......
The thing is... the advice of "Hole up in a safe room and wait for the cops"... and "Never clear your house. That is what cops are for." is good advice but it doesn't fit all circumstances and it would be wise to take a good look at your own personal circumstances and get training so you can respond not only to realistic possibilities but also in a realistic manner to those possibilities. Please note that a "rare" possibility is still a possibility.
BC1
,
I have to agree with you. What were the chances that a pedophile would enter our property from the woods in a rural farming community and murder our little guy? What life has taught me s that anything can happen. Boy scouts were right... be prepared.
apvbguy
New member
I see what your biggest problem is, you just think that one size fits all, I guess I should have been more verbose with my reply, here goes, if I am sitting in my chair watching TV and someone kicks in the front door, I will confront him at the point of entry, if I am in bed and someone kicks in the front door, I will assume a defensive position and call the police. got it?? this is what I would do, I do not nor am I dispensing advise for others. If you and the cop wannabe want to play stealthy ninjas, have a great time I don't give a flying fig, I certainly am not going to make believe I am part of a SWAT team.
