Point shooting


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stratsrock

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I've read some interesting articles concerning aimed point shooting. I've tried it at the range with some success. I primarily practice the way I envision a self defense scenario might be. 3' to 21' distance, one handed as well as two, recommended stance using sights and recently point shooting. Interested in hearing how many of you use the aimed point shooting technique.
 

anyone who uses their sites in a SD encounter is a statistic in waiting
work on your point shooting and learn how to shoot from a retention position
 
I have found a shooting stance with my head tucked against my trigger arm, that tends to place my arm and my head in a position that is close to a position where the sights are aligned. I tend to think that memory practice will eventually leave you with a point shoot position that when you do point at an object, your pistol is pretty much aligned as if you are actually using your firearm sights. It does seem that point shoot should be a precursor to any close and quick need for self defense and practice is the ultimate precursor to good point shooting
 
kelcarry said:
I have found a shooting stance with my head tucked against my trigger arm, that tends to place my arm and my head in a position that is close to a position where the sights are aligned. I tend to think that memory practice will eventually leave you with a point shoot position that when you do point at an object, your pistol is pretty much aligned as if you are actually using your firearm sights. It does seem that point shoot should be a precursor to any close and quick need for self defense and practice is the ultimate precursor to good point shooting
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like any other skill the more time and effort that you put into practice the better, more skilled you will become
say that nasty word (practice) in some other threads and a couple of guys will get obnoxious as can be
 
Your Tactical Training Scenario: In-Hand Weapons Retention | Active Response Training

First here is an interesting article on shooting from retention.

I’m not sure what aimed point shooting is, point shooting is by definition not “aiming”.

I also don’t think it’s written in stone that using the sights will get you killed, I think it’s very situational.
What I do think will get you killed is vacillating between should I aim or not. I’ve trained both ways and I can hit both ways but I get better hits aiming.

Shooting from retention which isn’t the same thing as point shooting is a critical skill.

I’ve never seen the entire movie but there is an excellent example of shooting from retention in the movie Collateral. In the scene where Tom Cruise confronts the guy that stole his briefcase he first shot is from a retention position, then he steps away from the second guy and assumes a proper stance and fires two aimed shots.

Tom Cruise actually took 4 months of advanced firearms training before filming that movie and even thought the movie looks pretty dumb that scene shows some really good gun handling (if you over look the fact that he’s committing a double murder)
 
stratsrock said:
I've read some interesting articles concerning aimed point shooting. I've tried it at the range with some success. I primarily practice the way I envision a self defense scenario might be. 3' to 21' distance, one handed as well as two, recommended stance using sights and recently point shooting. Interested in hearing how many of you use the aimed point shooting technique.
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Practice point shooting at close distances. Past 10 or 12 feet just make sure the front sight is aligned but don't bring the gun all the way up to eye level. You'll still get him.
 
Kathy Jackson (Cornered Cat) had us do a drill with masking tape over our sights so we couldn't rely on them. It was a good instructor tool as well; if our stance was correct, we still hit exactly where we were aiming. Nice to know that with proper practice, muscle memory will put us right on target whether we look at the sights or not.
 
The only way, IMO, to practice for SD scenarios is to point shoot... in a SD scenario you're not going to have time to aim, let alone sh!t your pants. Make sure your handle on the weapon is proper and lends itself to effective point shooting, the gun should be an extension of you... as they say. Practice as often as possible from different angles and positions to develop the ability to know where your rounds will hit even if you aren't using a traditional two-hand, shoulder width stance. Shoot one-handed, from the side, the ground and from just out of the holster among others.
 
telpinaro said:
Kathy Jackson (Cornered Cat) had us do a drill with masking tape over our sights so we couldn't rely on them. It was a good instructor tool as well; if our stance was correct, we still hit exactly where we were aiming. Nice to know that with proper practice, muscle memory will put us right on target whether we look at the sights or not.
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When I was in the army we did a drill where we'd take aim at the target, close our eyes and open them and see how our sight picture had shifted. the idea was to practice your firing position until you could do this without the sight picture shifting.
 
Here's the movie clip I was talking about


There's also a really good object lesson in there about not letting random strangers know you are defenseless.

The only thing I question in the shooting scene (in terms of technique) is that the first thing Cruise does is either push the guy with the gun or his gun arm away which leaves his hand forward of the muzzle as he shoots. other than that I see no faults in his gun handling, in fact he even goes to a proper low ready, look and assess after shooting.
 
Quick tips on retention shooting from Paul Gomez


BTW before betting your life on a youtube video do some reseach on the trainer. Paul Gomez is known reputable trainer
 
Aiming is really nothing more than using some points of reference to line up two objects. Sticking to a gun.... the gun has what we can call "traditional sights" to help line the gun up with the desired target. But then, even if a gun doesn't have traditional sights we can use the slide/barrel to for lining up. Or... we can use our own innate ability of spatial awareness to "know" where we are in relation to the target and use that for lining up.

The thing is.... the more coarse the process used for lining up the less precise is the lining up.

An interesting exercise.... where ever you are sitting at this moment... think of something small that is in the room with you. Don't look at it .. just close your eyes and point your finger at it. You will be using your spatial awareness of being aware of where you are in relation to where that object is to "aim" your finger at what ever that object is. Betcha you managed to get sorta close with this very coarse method of "aiming"...but not right on.

Now sight down your arm... and using the not so coarse method of aiming by looking down your arm brings your finger even more in line with that object.

But if you were holding a gun (if you decide to do this UNLOAD THE GUN FIRST!) and were able to use the sights to aim then you would be able to pick a small spot on that object as your target.

It's still all a process of "aiming" but some methods of lining things up (aiming) are more precise than others.

Actually figuring out angles and distance for artillery fire is using math to "aim" at a target that can't be seen.
 
Eidolon said:
The only thing I question in the shooting scene (in terms of technique) is that the first thing Cruise does is either push the guy with the gun or his gun arm away which leaves his hand forward of the muzzle as he shoots. other than that I see no faults in his gun handling, in fact he even goes to a proper low ready, look and assess after shooting.
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The only thing that disturbs ME about this clip is why I love WATCHING it so much. I just bought that DVD, now I gotta watch it pronto. Great stuff.
 
2Awarrior said:
The only thing that disturbs ME about this clip is why I love WATCHING it so much. I just bought that DVD, now I gotta watch it pronto. Great stuff.
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Meh, not much of a Tom Cruise fan. If the movie ever shows up in the 5 dollar bin at Wal Mart and there's not a John Wayne flick I haven't seen in there too.... maybe
 
The "point shooting" that I saw was done with the index finger along side the firearm and the middle finger as the trigger finger.

Very interesting video by Paul Gomez above. His thumb was pointing upward to control the side movement of his firearm.
 
stratsrock said:
Very interesting video by Paul Gomez above. His thumb was pointing upward to control the side movement of his firearm.
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No his thumb was up to give him a tactile indicator of where the gun was at and to give it some standoff distance from his body
 
I've been point shooting for years. 3-5-7 yard line is the accepted norm. Not saying sighting your target is not correct. What I am saying is that when the SHTF, you should be able to draw and fire as soon as the weapon clears the holster. Second round should be rapidly fired following the first round. (double tap to some) By the time your arm is fully extended is when you'll evaluate and repeat if necessary to repeat a two round burst. At that time if needed you can use your sights. (PLEASE ALL THAT READ THIS THREAD-don't berate me with multiple scenarios where this will not work. I'm speaking in generalities.) Or not use your sights depending on the intervention you've been drawn into. I never say NEVER but I NEVER train at the 3-5-7 yard line using my sights. If I have to engage, I won't have the time to aim. We're really talking 10ths of seconds most of the time. Any longer amount of time and I'll call the LEO's to handle, NOT my engagement. I can walk away.
This is my humble opinion. Take it for what you want.
 
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