NRA Members???

[GOV5]

You are 100% right about the NRA!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so glad that you posted this important information. I did so about a year or two ago and got slammed by almost everybody here. After that exchange, I have not posted much here. I hate talking to uninformed and mind-numbed people that refuse to look at a position from all sides and collect enough information to come to an informed, intelligent decision. Personally, I don't care if you are a member of the NRA or not, as long as you have your valid reason/s. But I don't think the reason " because they are constantly fighting for us" is valid, much less correct!

BluesStringer, you are absolutely correct about the McDonald case and the NRA's lack of a position there. They were not the lead on the case at all! In fact, in my opinion, they only signed on as a co-sponsor when they found out this case may actually GET TO THE COURT! They tried to claim that Alan Gura was "their man" too. That was total Bravo Sierra (B.S.). And the challengers for Mr. McDonald didn't use the opportunity to get all this control straightened out with that case. They wimped out!

Alan Gura had the RIGHT defendant, at the RIGHT time, under the RIGHT CONDITIONS, with the RIGHT COURT, to get the "right to keep and bear arms" settled once and for all. They failed miserably!! In fact, they even failed in the press, AFTER the decision came out. There were several references by the Justices in that decision that said citizens HAVE the right to keep and bear arms. I still don't understand why Gura and Company didn't jump on this and declare that this decision actually DID affirm our rights to not only own a gun, but to carry it in any manner in which we decided!! Because, again I say, several of the Justices said exactly that. If they had shown some guts, and "Planning and understanding their advantage at that time", we would now be walking around with out guns being carried anyway we wanted to carry them, concealed or open.

The Second Amendment Foundation got Alan Gura behind this fight because he had been successful in Washington, DC with Heller. The NRA only got in on this case LATE, and ONLY as a co-sponsor, because they were afraid how it would look to ALL their Supporters if they weren't signed on. For the NRA to claim ANY victory in this case is like France claiming THEY freed the Allies from the Nazi's and won the War by themselves.

Blues, I am not of the opinion that the NRA doesn't help at all, but they are no where close to what they claim to be. When folks start to investigate and look at the NRA with a clear mind, they will see that the NRA is a BIG, bureaucratic organization. An organization that if they REALLY did their job right, they would cease to have a reason to exist. Then all those "fat cats" in the NRA wouldn't have a job. THAT is why they failed us ALL at the McDonald case, and I will never forgive them for it, nor send any money their way. WE have had a hard enough time defending our rights and Constitution with a 5-4 Court majority. With Obama getting elected for a second term (and NRA knew this would screw things up for us), he can appoint anti-gun Justices and get them confirmed by his Majority in the Senate.

 

[BluesStringer]

Nice rebuttal..Oh wait...never mind that wasn't even close to an educated response, I sincerely hope blues doesn't waste any of his time on a response to you. You obviously have no valid argument against what he brought up, so we will just chalk it up to a majority of gun owners being part of different herd of sheep...Congratulations...

Actually Chen, I already replied to this umm....poster....before I saw this umm....post. And actually, I'm glad I posted where I did, because, though his post there was full of sycophantic blind loyalty, and vitriol towards all who might disagree with him, he did actually state an intelligible opinion or two that could be replied to. And after replying, I was euphoric, as he gave me the opportunity to invoke God's glory in explaining my position. For that, I thank him. For the rest, I pity him. It must really suck to be so emotionally invested in an organization whose entire history is steeped in self-admitted betrayals of gun owners, that his knee-jerk reaction is to lash out in anger over well-documented proofs of same.

I am responding to you, FFC, and I will take your advice and respond no further to him. The only advice I would give you in return is to go easy on him. He's obviously disturbed, which I will pray for God to relieve him of that burden.

Blues

 

[phil57]

I'm new here but not to gun ownership. I am former Marine and a avid shooter for 30 years. I am ashamed to admit that I only joined the NRA last year. I did sign up for life time member but still doesn't seem like that makes up for free loading the last 30 years. I hope that I will be able to contribute more but thats all I can afford at this time. I did take the CCW or CPL here in Michigan. This was the best class that I have taken in regards to firearms. The thought process and the responsibility that they brought forward was outstanding.

 

[Rhino]

Welcome, Phil..

 

[gejoslin]

I'm new here but not to gun ownership. I am former Marine and a avid shooter for 30 years. I am ashamed to admit that I only joined the NRA last year. I did sign up for life time member but still doesn't seem like that makes up for free loading the last 30 years. I hope that I will be able to contribute more but thats all I can afford at this time. I did take the CCW or CPL here in Michigan. This was the best class that I have taken in regards to firearms. The thought process and the responsibility that they brought forward was outstanding.

Welcome Phil, we can't change the past but we can try to change our future. By training ourselves to be better at whatever we need to be better at. With me it's firearm training and trying to get people to understand that gun owners are not the monsters that the liberals think we are. We're just everyday people with families trying to get through everyday uninjured and safe. I don't think that too much to ask for.
Welcome to our forum and the NRA.

 

[tricolordad]

So the question I have now, after reading all the above posts, is: Have I just wasted some money in my attempt to support the cause of pro-gun people in your country?
Another question that comes to mind is: Can an organization like NRA not be changed from the grassroots level if it isn't meeting the needs/aspirations of its members?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

The NRA is the by far the largest gun rights group in the world. There may be other groups, but they do not have the membership, including civilian, military, law enforcement, presidents, senators, governors...that we do. The quality of our strength can be seen simply by looking at the president ordering Joe Biden not to speak to us. The NRA even has a voice in the United Nations, which is extremely hostile to us.
The entire country held its' breath to hear what our Executive V.P. Wayne LaPierre had to say. We, as a group, are powerful enough, that even when we say the SAME THING as the left (minus the blame the object crap) regarding the tragedy at Sandy Hook, the liberals attack us without making an arguing point. I've seen a report that NRA membership is up ranging from 30 to 75% since the Connecticut shooting.

You are definitely not wasting your money. Blues is entitled to his opinion, and it is just that.. Your contributions pay for the printing of materials exposing the aim of the left. Members, like myself, volunteer our time and money to distribute these materials to the people who would otherwise remain ignorant to things like attempts to ban commonly used ammunition since the mainstream media will not report on it. Every leaflet distributed is a chance to be heard. Without your membership dues and other contributions, we lose a few opportunities to reach those who haven't heard the truth. As an example, I volunteered over 200 hours this past presidential election. I was not paid. I covered 4 cities on foot. A few more volunteers like me helped turn our state, which usually votes democrat in the presidential elections, into a battleground state.e

An armed people are a free people, and we are just that. There are over 5 million of us. If at least half the hunters in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania would join, that would be another million and a few more nails in the coffin for the anti-freedom liberal media. Our membership is not just older white males, as the MSM would like you to think. it is hispanic, caucasian, asian, black, native american, and arabs, like myself, men, women, boys and girls, ranging from infants to 100+ year olds. My 4 year old daughter is a member. I'm sure if it was a waste, she wouldn't have asked to join. And she's a cheapskate with that piggy bank.

 

[ptco911]

Member of the NRA for many years and looking at joining Gun Owners of America as well.

 

[One78Shovel]

Thanks all who join. Here is a link to a video I uploaded on considering the NRA or other organization.

-178S

NRA Life Member
SAF Supporter

 

[Deserteagle]

So the question I have now, after reading all the above posts, is: Have I just wasted some money in my attempt to support the cause of pro-gun people in your country?
Another question that comes to mind is: Can an organization like NRA not be changed from the grassroots level if it isn't meeting the needs/aspirations of its members?

Question 1: Have you wasted your money? Yes and no. The NRA does fight some gun control laws. But they also support some gun control laws that bargain away your rights little by little.

Question 2: Can it be changed from the grassroots level? Probably not. The NRA is a huge organization that makes a lot of money. The millionaires dont care what you think. They just want you to keep giving them money. After all, by becoming a member, you are telling them it is okay for them to do the thinking for you. You pay them, they decide what is best.

 

[2Awarrior]

Question 1: Have you wasted your money? Yes and no. The NRA does fight some gun control laws. But they also support some gun control laws that bargain away your rights little by little.

Question 2: Can it be changed from the grassroots level? Probably not. The NRA is a huge organization that makes a lot of money. The millionaires dont care what you think. They just want you to keep giving them money. After all, by becoming a member, you are telling them it is okay for them to do the thinking for you. You pay them, they decide what is best.

I have learned a lot since starting this thread, thanks to an amazing number of astute and well-informed members on this forum, and I think Deserteagle summed it up well. Yes, they have gotten too big - and who knows? Maybe this current fight will be their swan song, if members flock elsewhere after watching them giving away the ranch. Or maybe they can be changed from the bottom up and get better. Bottom line, their sheer size is the only reason Washington gives a rat's butt about them. I don't know if GOA or JPFO has that kind of clout.

One thing I find encouraging - the Social Media we have at our fingertips, in our homes, our cars, our phones. We are connected as never before. It's gotten so huge, and our ability to communicate with one another and with the government has reached such an unprecedented level, MAYBE we can do this without hiring or sending dues to ANY suits and talking heads, without forming another NRA that resembles a corporation more than an organized band of Americans.

A band of Americans is what we are, above all else.
MAYBE, gentlemen, the time is near when we shall redefine forever the word "Militia".


Edit - PS - I know somebody's gonna say "what if the gov't shuts down the social media, smart guy?". I dunno - it still works in China - I imagine if our gov't got so far as to resort to that, things will already be pretty desperate. One step at a time...

 

[BluesStringer]

The NRA is the by far the largest gun rights group in the world.

Except when they're working for gun control, under the radar, the vast majority of times without their memberships' knowledge, and to their great detriment. At that point they become the largest gun control organization in the world. But sycophants don't let facts get in their way.

There may be other groups, but they do not have the membership, including civilian, military, law enforcement, presidents, senators, governors...that we do.

And to a large degree, that's a big part of the problem.

As regards the politicians you mention, can you name one that has never voted for a gun control law?

What does the NRA negotiate on? Our rights, right? Do you give them permission to negotiate bits and pieces of your rights away to usurping criminal politicians? I don't, yet that's what they do anyway. The difference between people like me and y'all, is I don't pay 'em to negotiate and compromise my rights away.

The quality of our strength can be seen simply by looking at the president ordering Joe Biden not to speak to us.

But wait....I thought the NRA were professional negotiators. I thought you were a force to be reckoned with, yet you say here that the "quality" of your strength can be seen by who won't reckon with you? I'm having a hard time with that. You do realize that, even if every one of the so-called pro gun criminal members of Congress that the NRA makes compromises with suddenly became pure constitutional originalists and wrote the most awesome piece of gun rights legislation the world has ever seen, that if the President won't reckon with you, he's going to veto the bill and you get squat, right?

Actually, I guess you're right. That fact alone does demonstrate the quality of your strength, and it's weaker than I thought before I sussed out your post.

The NRA even has a voice in the United Nations, which is extremely hostile to us.

What voice do they have in the UN? Is it an official voice, like a State Dept. appointed envoy from the NRA to the UN? Or is it just some lobbyist that glad-hands around the UN building trying to network with foreign despots, tyrants and terrorists, because there aren't enough of them in DC?

I call BS on the NRA "voice" in the UN.

And why are you braggin' on all the hostile relationships the NRA has? Doesn't that really just prove my point, that they're not working in Americans' best interests? Do you really think the majority of people here on this site are particularly fond of the UN?

If I'm sending my money to any political organization, and I find out they're hob-nobbin' with the UN, instead of focusing on our Constitution and preserving its protections from the jackals in DC, they get a note the day I find that out renouncing my membership, and if I can get to the bank and stop payment on the last check I sent 'em, I'm doin' it.

The entire country held its' breath to hear what our Executive V.P. Wayne LaPierre had to say.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man, delusions of grandeur to the max!

We, as a group, are powerful enough, that even when we say the SAME THING as the left (minus the blame the object crap) regarding the tragedy at Sandy Hook, the liberals attack us without making an arguing point.

I see. So you're so incompetent at making your case that you can't get through to the antis, right? And that'll be $25 bucks, Sir! Brilliant arguments you're making here! Simply brilliant!

I've seen a report that NRA membership is up ranging from 30 to 75% since the Connecticut shooting.

Scared, desperate people are easily deceived. That's nothing new.

Blues is entitled to his opinion, and it is just that..

Funny, in all of this post of yours, I don't see a single link. Mine was covered with them, documenting the basis for every opinion I offered. And just to be clear, I actually held back with the links, because I've been at this long enough to know that most people on forums don't follow them anyway. But I've got hundreds of thousands of words at my immediate disposal to further document a solid and valid rationale for every opinion I state about the NRA. You? Not so much.

Your contributions pay for the printing of materials exposing the aim of the left. Members, like myself, volunteer our time and money to distribute these materials to the people who would otherwise remain ignorant to things like attempts to ban commonly used ammunition since the mainstream media will not report on it. Every leaflet distributed is a chance to be heard. Without your membership dues and other contributions, we lose a few opportunities to reach those who haven't heard the truth. As an example, I volunteered over 200 hours this past presidential election. I was not paid. I covered 4 cities on foot. A few more volunteers like me helped turn our state, which usually votes democrat in the presidential elections, into a battleground state.

That's all well and good, and I have no criticism of your efforts. What I'd like to know is why you think the kind of active participation you describe yourself engaging in, can only be done under the NRA banner? You think there aren't GOA, JPFO, AFA, and a whole host of other leaflets and educational materials being distributed by just as dedicated, and just as committed activists?

See, this is the main question of the thread. Those of us who forego an alliance with the NRA rarely, if ever, even mention it around these boards. But in this thread, we were asked for our rationale, and the fact is, it's so damned solid and incontrovertible, that not one single person has tried to debunk it beyond just saying "THAT'S HORSESH!T!" And now you come along, infinitely more articulate and rational, yet completely ignoring the mountain of evidence I've posted to document the rationale for my opinions and conclusions, and say dishonestly that it's my opinion, and just that. Bull. It's real research. It's a quest for truth. It's historical facts, some of it coming right out of the mouths of your leaders, and going back as far as at least 1930, with involvement in compromising our rights away pieces at a time in the '34 NFA and every single other major piece of federal legislation since then. And that doesn't even take into consideration all the state level battles they have betrayed their members over.

So try as you might to come across otherwise, it is obvious that you're being intentionally disingenuous when you say *all* I've offered is my opinions. And considering how blatant your effort to ignore every piece of evidence supporting my position has been, it suggests a blind, unthinking, sycophantic loyalty to the NRA which they don't deserve by any rational, honest scrutiny of their record.

And I won't charge you a dime for trying to inform you of the truth, whereas, they charge a minimum of $25 bucks a year to incessantly lie to and manipulate you out of more of your money. For what? So they can rub elbows with fat-cats in DC and every once in awhile actually address gun issues, while they use your God-given rights as barter tokens to bargain with? No thanks.

Better luck next time trying to convince unknowing people that their money is being well-spent. It's just this side of being fraudulently extorted from them by playing on their fears on the one hand, and working under the radar to give them good reason to be fearful on the other. The NRA wouldn't even need to exist if our rights were actually being preserved and protected, and with the massive Money Tree they've built for themselves, they have as much motivation to make sure that never happens as Diane Feinstein or Barack Obama. They will never "protect our rights" to their fullest extent, because to do so, would put them right out of business.

Blues

 

[nyviking]

I'm almost afraid to ask this question, because I'm afraid the answer will make my blood boil...
CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THERE ARE 80 MILLION GUN OWNERS IN THIS COUNTRY, AND ONLY 4 MILLION NRA MEMBERS?!?!?
Is there anyone on this forum who is NOT an NRA member and can justify why?
Look at the force we are in Washington DC - imagine if there were 50 or 60 MILLION of us?? And why shouldn't there be 80 Million?!?
WE ARE IN THE FIGHT OF OUR LIVES HERE, PEOPLE!!

I was on line getting into a gun show once, and I heard two college- age guys talking behind me - "You in the NRA?" one asked the other. "Naah" the little s--t whined, "if you join up, they always keep mailing you stuff."
I turned around and stared in his face. "You know what?" I said, "If I had my way, there'd be a guard at the door over there, and if you can't show your NRA membership card, you couldn't even get the ---k INSIDE."
I offered to PAY his g----mn membership for a year at the NRA booth inside the building where the show was, but I guess the prospect of the NRA "mailing him stuff" was just too terrifying.

Lord help us.

I am a Life Member of the NRA; my wife (who doesn't own a gun to her name) is a member and my 12 yr old son is a junior member(paying towards life member). I am also a Life Member of the SAF. A member of the GOA. I certainly believe that if you can't be directly involved in the fight for the SA then you at least could support one group that does the fighting for you. That's my 2cents. Tim

 

[1911 Headbanger]

I have learned a lot since starting this thread, thanks to an amazing number of astute and well-informed members on this forum, and I think Deserteagle summed it up well. Yes, they have gotten too big - and who knows? Maybe this current fight will be their swan song, if members flock elsewhere after watching them giving away the ranch. Or maybe they can be changed from the bottom up and get better. Bottom line, their sheer size is the only reason Washington gives a rat's butt about them. I don't know if GOA or JPFO has that kind of clout.

One thing I find encouraging - the Social Media we have at our fingertips, in our homes, our cars, our phones. We are connected as never before. It's gotten so huge, and our ability to communicate with one another and with the government has reached such an unprecedented level, MAYBE we can do this without hiring or sending dues to ANY suits and talking heads, without forming another NRA that resembles a corporation more than an organized band of Americans.

A band of Americans is what we are, above all else.
MAYBE, gentlemen, the time is near when we shall redefine forever the word "Militia".


Edit - PS - I know somebody's gonna say "what if the gov't shuts down the social media, smart guy?". I dunno - it still works in China - I imagine if our gov't got so far as to resort to that, things will already be pretty desperate. One step at a time...

Like I said. Divide and Conquer. This is the reason why Dumbass Gun Owners WILL LOSE their Gun Rights under the Constitution. They never stick together on anything. It's always been this way.

While in Law Enforcement and Gunsmithing, I constantly heard Gun Owners who were willing to allow "Assault Weapons" to be banned, because they have nothing but sporting guns, or allow semi-auto pistols to be outlawed because they only own revolvers. Now it's, Kill the NRA and bad mouth them at every turn. But be blessed. You're in Good Company. Assholes like Piers Morgan, Diane Feinstein and Chuck Schummer agree with you and want them killed off too. Unless we band together as one and put power into our organizations we will lose. You will lose your Gun Rights.
Oh, you may keep them, but you won't be packing one or using one to defend yourself without the knowlege that you ARE going to prison, no questions asked. Yeah, keep one in your car while you travel and get stopped and searched, or use it to defend yourself on the road. Watch what happens. I hear them say I will not register and I won't turn them in. Me either. But you won't have the right to have them under the law. So having one or using one will mean, you'll be on the run, or going to jail. Go ahead and keep it up folks. We'll hang separately. Because in case you haven't noticed; your Liberal Gun Hating Enemies are very well UNITED and Hell Bent on doing something right now. Your enemy is well organized, has the most of the media on their side and are pressuring your elected Officials to do something. Stand by for it. And keep dividing yourselves, keep bashing your organizations, keep refusing to unite with the NRA and others and watch what the F*#K happens. WHY DO YOU THINK THE GUN HATERS AND LIBERALS ARE TARGETING THE NRA RIGHT NOW??? It's because the NRA is a serious Thorn In Their Sides and they can't make a move without knocking out the NRA. Gun Owners are not united enough and the enemy knows it. You are going to LOSE. Like I said. Watch what the F*#k happens.

 

[BluesStringer]

Like I said. Divide and Conquer. This is the reason why Dumbass Gun Owners WILL LOSE their Gun Rights under the Constitution. They never stick together on anything. It's always been this way.

When asked a question, do you answer it honestly?

The handful of us in this thread who have problems with the NRA were asked for our opinions. We gave 'em. I gave many links to document a very abbreviated list of grievances I have with the NRA. There are many, many more I could cite, but I figured I'd test the waters with my big toe instead of dragging everyone into the deep end up to their necks right off the bat.

While in Law Enforcement

Well, you aren't going to like this either. I am not a big fan of law enforcement. Your rants are perfectly consistent with my perception of most cops; overbearing, demanding, authoritative when you have no earthly right or reason to be. That line right there explains a lot more to me than just a simple aspect of your work-history. It explains your entire crappy attitude towards those of us who refuse to comply with demands that you and your fellow NRA sycophants have no authority whatsoever to lay on us.

I almost said in my reply to you in the other thread that you sound like a cop demanding that I prone out or be tazed for freakin' littering, but I chose to stick to the subject instead. Yep, that explains a lot.

Now it's, Kill the NRA and bad mouth them at every turn.

Again, in this thread, we were asked for our opinions. We haven't badmouthed the NRA at "every turn" and no one suggested killing them. We simply have determined that they haven't earned our money or our support, and I for one, documented a small part of how I made that determination. Your hyperbole is getting away from you.

But be blessed. You're in Good Company. Assholes like Piers Morgan, Diane Feinstein and Chuck Schummer agree with you and want them killed off too.

Whose putting words in whom's mouths now? Idiot.

I do find it telling that you equate being "blessed" with being aligned with government shills and the tyrants they serve though. I have been very Blessed in my life, which is the exact reason I oppose government shills and the tyrants they serve. I am commanded by God to oppose tyranny, as are you, as are the people of the NRA. You can't oppose it while you're busy compromising with it though. Just one among several principles of truth that you seem incapable of grasping at all.

Unless we band together as one and put power into our organizations we will lose. You will lose your Gun Rights.

We've already lost our gun rights. What we have now are privileges, allowed only if/when you pay tribute to government and ask their permission if it's OK if you exercise what God Himself guided our Founding Fathers to describe as unalienable rights. Name a gun "right" that's unfettered in this country right now. Even Vermont, which for the moment, has no restrictions on open or concealed carry, could change any time they wished and start demanding that people pay and ask permission for exercising their "rights," and it would be perfectly "legal." Why would I "band together" with millions of people who are so brain-dead that they can't even distinguish between an unalienable right and a government-authorized privilege?

It's a rhetorical question for which you shouldn't waste a moment's thought on, as you are among the brain-dead and I wouldn't expect you to be able to answer it.

Oh, you may keep them, but you won't be packing one or using one to defend yourself without the knowlege that you ARE going to prison, no questions asked. Yeah, keep one in your car while you travel and get stopped and searched, or use it to defend yourself on the road. Watch what happens.

Every single bit of that is true right now if I defy the permission-slip system and refuse to pay tribute to tyrants who think they have the authority to tell me when, where, how, or if I *may* exercise my God-given rights.

I hear them say I will not register and I won't turn them in. Me either.

Why not? You've already acquiesced to the notion that government can control if/when/where/how you exercise God-given rights, why would you draw the line at simply possessing arms if they can already control whether or not you can even load them?

But you won't have the right to have them under the law.

You don't have the right now, you have permission, and that's all. Permission, by the way, which the Constitution clearly states is not government's to give or withhold. Yet as an LEO, you enforced the government's usurpation of the 2nd and 10th Amendments on a regular basis. Either that, or you got fired for refusing illegal orders, and if that's the case, which I highly doubt, but if it is, I'd truly like to shake your hand. That would be taking a principled stand for the rights of citizens. Paying tribute to government, carrying a permission-slip with you everywhere you go, paying an organization to further engage in the same kinds of compromising and usurpations that caused you to be forced into those systems in the first place however, is anything but principled. It's not even helpful. It's harmful to the notion of God-given, unalienable, inviolate rights.

So having one or using one will mean, you'll be on the run, or going to jail. Go ahead and keep it up folks. We'll hang separately. Because in case you haven't noticed; your Liberal Gun Hating Enemies are very well UNITED and Hell Bent on doing something right now. Your enemy is well organized, has the most of the media on their side and are pressuring your elected Officials to do something. Stand by for it. And keep dividing yourselves, keep bashing your organizations, keep refusing to unite with the NRA and others and watch what the F*#K happens.

I have watched what will happen, and it's happening right this minute. Tyrants are, and have been for the last 100+ years, ignoring the Constitution on every fundamental principle of individual liberty contained therein. Instead of drawing a line in the sand, like right where the very tip of the farthest root away from the Tree of Liberty is standing, the NRA accepts the notion that our rights are as meaningless as government believes they are, as they do nothing but pay lip-service to those "rights" out of one side of their mouths, and they use them as bargaining chips to compromise with out of the other.

WHY DO YOU THINK THE GUN HATERS AND LIBERALS ARE TARGETING THE NRA RIGHT NOW???

With those all-caps, you seem to be implying that this is some deep, profound, difficult question to answer. It's not. Not by a long-shot.

The answer is because they are as brain-dead as the sycophants of the NRA who can't discern between rights and privileges, between God-given and government-authorized, between liberty and tyranny, heck, between Good and evil.

If you claim to accept that our rights derive from God Himself, but support an organization whose entire history is rife with examples of compromising those rights with governments of man, then how can you not say that organization believes itself worthy of compromising God's laws?

It's because the NRA is a serious Thorn In Their Sides and they can't make a move without knocking out the NRA. Gun Owners are not united enough and the enemy knows it.

Those two sentences completely contradict each other. Either the NRA is "united" and powerful enough to prevent the enemy from making any moves, or they're ineffective, insignificant, incompetent and evil enough that the enemy gets away with whatever they want.

Ahh, but there's a third choice that I don't think you've considered. Maybe the NRA is nothing more than controlled opposition. Maybe it's part of the enemy's own arsenal of weapons to be used against the God-given rights of man. When I speak in terms of an "enemy," I am speaking of Satan, and all who either willingly serve him, or the larger group of humans who are unwittingly deceived by him. If freedom is Godly, and I believe it is, and tyranny is satanic, which I likewise believe is true, then compromising with tyrants is consorting with Satan, and Satan is smart enough to trick people into consorting with him, not through free will, but through deception and manipulation.

I will not be deceived into thinking the NRA is there to protect and preserve that which God gave us; freedom. I will not be manipulated or guilted by its members into believing the lie that compromising my rights is protecting my rights. The very notion is so steeped in pretzel-logic that to even consider it makes me want to wash my brain afterwards, and clear whatever goo away that prevented me from seeing it for the contradiction in terms it represents. Think about it....say it again....it is a lie that compromising our God-given rights is the same as protecting our God-given rights.

You are going to LOSE. Like I said. Watch what the F*#k happens.

Likewise, watch what happens to those who compromise with Satan. He will always win in that game, and you will lose more than your phony, non-existent "rights" that you allowed him to compromise into nothingness, you will lose your soul, just as this country already has, and the NRA has participated many times in ensuring that loss.

Blues

 

[2Awarrior]

Like I said. Divide and Conquer. This is the reason why Dumbass Gun Owners WILL LOSE their Gun Rights under the Constitution. They never stick together on anything. It's always been this way.

While in Law Enforcement and Gunsmithing, I constantly heard Gun Owners who were willing to allow "Assault Weapons" to be banned, because they have nothing but sporting guns, or allow semi-auto pistols to be outlawed because they only own revolvers. Now it's, Kill the NRA and bad mouth them at every turn. But be blessed. You're in Good Company. Assholes like Piers Morgan, Diane Feinstein and Chuck Schummer agree with you and want them killed off too. Unless we band together as one and put power into our organizations we will lose. You will lose your Gun Rights.
Oh, you may keep them, but you won't be packing one or using one to defend yourself without the knowlege that you ARE going to prison, no questions asked. Yeah, keep one in your car while you travel and get stopped and searched, or use it to defend yourself on the road. Watch what happens. I hear them say I will not register and I won't turn them in. Me either. But you won't have the right to have them under the law. So having one or using one will mean, you'll be on the run, or going to jail. Go ahead and keep it up folks. We'll hang separately. Because in case you haven't noticed; your Liberal Gun Hating Enemies are very well UNITED and Hell Bent on doing something right now. Your enemy is well organized, has the most of the media on their side and are pressuring your elected Officials to do something. Stand by for it. And keep dividing yourselves, keep bashing your organizations, keep refusing to unite with the NRA and others and watch what the F*#K happens. WHY DO YOU THINK THE GUN HATERS AND LIBERALS ARE TARGETING THE NRA RIGHT NOW??? It's because the NRA is a serious Thorn In Their Sides and they can't make a move without knocking out the NRA. Gun Owners are not united enough and the enemy knows it. You are going to LOSE. Like I said. Watch what the F*#k happens.

Evenin', brother.
Since I couldn't determine who you're yelling at, I played it safe and assumed you're yelling at me. After that, I re-read my post, and realized I hadn't made my position clear (as is my propensity). What I said made it sound like I'd been convinced by a few of the fine folks here to give up on the NRA.
Not a chance. Allow me to clarify...

I support the NRA because I believe they still have mostly good intentions, and they are the force to be reckoned with, and that's what we need. Like it or not, if they disappeared tomorrow, it would probably take more than the social media I mentioned to keep us organized on short notice. It would be disastrous.

If I ever have a thousand bucks I don't know what to do with, I will become a life member.

Many of the replies on this thread have made me see more clearly what some of the organization's shortcomings are and have been. It has been a most welcome education. The road is always straighter for the well-informed.

I have my own gripes with the NRA with how they represent American gun owners, but the representation (I'm talking about public relations here for a minute, not legislation reform) is still some of the best I've seen since the "old days", like when Joe Foss allowed himself to be photographed with a too-small cowboy hat on, holding a silver revolver across his ---t-eating grin, for the cover of a major news weekly (and forget it- this was before Photoshop), among other examples. Grabbing Charleton Heston to be president when he was clearly already in the throes of Alzheimer's didn't do us much good in the public eye, either.
And they have on occasion gone too far as far as compromise.

But for the foreseeable future, they are the power. I'm also with GOA and JPFO, as I stated.

Like the Terminator said in T2 - I see everything. And thanks to this thread, I see a lot more clearly.

 

[cc_ryder]

I believe there might be one good reason not to join the NRA. That is that they do not defend the Second Amendment. They have been back pedaling for years. They have never taken the stand that that right shall not be infringed.

 

[r1derbike]

You know the problem with apathy? Nobody gives-a-damn.

richardlpalmer, I bet if you were riding that bike toward me, I'd recognize you...

 

[BluesStringer]

You know the problem with apathy? Nobody gives-a-damn.

Please tell me that this doesn't mean that you equate one deciding not to join the NRA with them being apathetic about their rights. If that's what you're saying, you'll have a long, hard row to hoe supporting such a truly vapid notion. If you're not saying that, then disregard, but I would be curious to know what you did mean.

Blues

 

[txhkman]

The first time I signed up they sent me some DVD that if I didn't mail back they would bill me. If it had come a day later I'd been gone for a month. Pissed me off. I almost quit.

 

[tricolordad]

uhhh im thinking of a rough rider

Except when they're working for gun control, under the radar, the vast majority of times without their memberships' knowledge, and to their great detriment. At that point they become the largest gun control organization in the world. But sycophants don't let facts get in their way.

Yes, we do host some great marksmanship events! Thank you for commenting on our dedication to improving accuracy!

And to a large degree, that's a big part of the problem.

As regards the politicians you mention, can you name one that has never voted for a gun control law?
T.R.[\B]
What does the NRA negotiate on? Our rights, right? Do you give them permission to negotiate bits and pieces of your rights away to usurping criminal politicians? I don't, yet that's what they do anyway. The difference between people like me and y'all, is I don't pay 'em to negotiate and compromise my rights away.

bluhbluhbluhbluhbluh![\B]


But wait....I thought the NRA were professional negotiators. I thought you were a force to be reckoned with, yet you say here that the "quality" of your strength can be seen by who won't reckon with you? I'm having a hard time with that. You do realize that, even if every one of the so-called pro gun criminal members of Congress that the NRA makes compromises with suddenly became pure constitutional originalists and wrote the most awesome piece of gun rights legislation the world has ever seen, that if the President won't reckon with you, he's going to veto the bill and you get squat, right?
bluhbluhbluhbluh! Bluhbluhbluh?!
Actually, I guess you're right. That fact alone does demonstrate the quality of your strength, and it's weaker than I thought before I sussed out your post.
Bluuhhhhhhbluhbluhbluhh!


What voice do they have in the UN? Is it an official voice, like a State Dept. appointed envoy from the NRA to the UN? Or is it just some lobbyist that glad-hands around the UN building trying to network with foreign despots, tyrants and terrorists, because there aren't enough of them in DC?

I call BS on the NRA "voice" in the UN.

And why are you braggin' on all the hostile relationships the NRA has? Doesn't that really just prove my point, that they're not working in Americans' best interests? Do you really think the majority of people here on this site are particularly fond of the UN?

If I'm sending my money to any political organization, and I find out they're hob-nobbin' with the UN, instead of focusing on our Constitution and preserving its protections from the jackals in DC, they get a note the day I find that out renouncing my membership, and if I can get to the bank and stop payment on the last check I sent 'em, I'm doin' it.
BLUUUHHHHHHHHHH


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man, delusions of grandeur to the max!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

I see. So you're so incompetent at making your case that you can't get through to the antis, right? And that'll be $25 bucks, Sir! Brilliant arguments you're making here! Simply brilliant!

bluhbluhbluhbluh....

Scared, desperate people are easily deceived. That's nothing new.



Funny, in all of this post of yours, I don't see a single link. Mine was covered with them, documenting the basis for every opinion I offered. And just to be clear, I actually held back with the links, because I've been at this long enough to know that most people on forums don't follow them anyway. But I've got hundreds of thousands of words at my immediate disposal to further document a solid and valid rationale for every opinion I state about the NRA. You? Not so much.



That's all well and good, and I have no criticism of your efforts. What I'd like to know is why you think the kind of active participation you describe yourself engaging in, can only be done under the NRA banner? You think there aren't GOA, JPFO, AFA, and a whole host of other leaflets and educational materials being distributed by just as dedicated, and just as committed activists?

See, this is the main question of the thread. Those of us who forego an alliance with the NRA rarely, if ever, even mention it around these boards. But in this thread, we were asked for our rationale, and the fact is, it's so damned solid and incontrovertible, that not one single person has tried to debunk it beyond just saying "THAT'S HORSESH!T!" And now you come along, infinitely more articulate and rational, yet completely ignoring the mountain of evidence I've posted to document the rationale for my opinions and conclusions, and say dishonestly that it's my opinion, and just that. Bull. It's real research. It's a quest for truth. It's historical facts, some of it coming right out of the mouths of your leaders, and going back as far as at least 1930, with involvement in compromising our rights away pieces at a time in the '34 NFA and every single other major piece of federal legislation since then. And that doesn't even take into consideration all the state level battles they have betrayed their members over.

So try as you might to come across otherwise, it is obvious that you're being intentionally disingenuous when you say *all* I've offered is my opinions. And considering how blatant your effort to ignore every piece of evidence supporting my position has been, it suggests a blind, unthinking, sycophantic loyalty to the NRA which they don't deserve by any rational, honest scrutiny of their record.

And I won't charge you a dime for trying to inform you of the truth, whereas, they charge a minimum of $25 bucks a year to incessantly lie to and manipulate you out of more of your money. For what? So they can rub elbows with fat-cats in DC and every once in awhile actually address gun issues, while they use your God-given rights as barter tokens to bargain with? No thanks.

Better luck next time trying to convince unknowing people that their money is being well-spent. It's just this side of being fraudulently extorted from them by playing on their fears on the one hand, and working under the radar to give them good reason to be fearful on the other. The NRA wouldn't even need to exist if our rights were actually being preserved and protected, and with the massive Money Tree they've built for themselves, they have as much motivation to make sure that never happens as Diane Feinstein or Barack Obama. They will never "protect our rights" to their fullest extent, because to do so, would put them right out of business.
BLLLLLLLLLUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Blues

Man, what a mouthful! I see your hormones are in full swing, dear. I managed to put a few words in your mouth, hope you don't mind since you do it so often. With all that anti-gun rights group rhetoric, you sound like DiDi. What's bloomy pay you for them posts?

Edit: did you spend your whole day bashing the NRA? Lol looks like somebody needs a hobby