Waffle House Shooting (Good Guy Wins)

[BluesStringer]

seems like it isnt over yet... I would really like to know what charges they could bring up for not telling a bad guy to stop or not waiting on him to point a gun at me.

Officers, public discuss recent spate of shootings | GoUpstate.com

I have thought several times about how things might be going for you snipingshadow. Glad you checked in, but sorry to read that bleeding heart drivel. Do I remember correctly that you said the video was extremely low quality? I can look back through the thread, but I think I remember you saying that.

From everything I've heard about your Sheriff (Wright), you're fortunate to be within his jurisdiction, but I had to wince when I read about him caving into the gathering to take another look at the tape, and even volunteered that he'd look into bringing charges "if needed." If he doesn't already know whether or not it's "needed," then maybe you're not as fortunate to be in his jurisdiction as I first thought. Seems a little wishy-washy in front of that particular crowd. Have you contacted him about that exchange to see if it was reported accurately? If not, have you thought about contacting him? I'm not saying I think that would be a great idea, in fact, I'd say it probably wouldn't be, but you know him much better than any of us. I just know if I read that in my local newspaper about me, I'd have a helluva time just sitting there waiting for a guy who already cleared me weeks ago to make up his mind whether or not he's going to second-guess himself based on pressure from a political gathering with a huge NAACP seal placed at the front of the church. Good Lord, that has to be as hard to deal with as the original event.

I clicked on the Link Removed for that event. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. The captions of the pictures say a lot too as far as I'm concerned. I'd like to see if any of y'all have any thoughts on those pics and their captions.

I wish you the best snipingshadow, and hope you'll keep us posted. God Bless.

Blues

 

[SGB]

The NAACP long ago became a Racist organization with the sole purpose of defending anything Black at all costs, regardless of the facts. Screw the NAACP and their racist membership.

 

[eagleeyes]

always good to hear when the good guys win

 

[snipingshadow]

Yes, the video was extremely low quality from the live feed i saw. The officers also mentioned that it was partly because of all the filth and cigarette smoke on them and they should clean the cameras. Thinkin about going up and demanding that they show me the complete video. If they let the dad see it then there is no way they can tell me im not allowed to watch a video of my own case. I know for a fact that the video doesnt have audio so how can he tell me that i didnt tell him to stop?! For all he knows i could have told him if he came my way he would die and he tried to call my bluff. Also i was told from the wh ppl that it is not a live feed video it is still shot pictures taken every second or so. I havent heard from the sheriff and i lost his personal cell number when my phone died at the range. Im trying to not let it stress me out but here's how i see it. A source told me if the NAACP keeps trying to push this legal charges can be filed against them. Now to go back to the article. The other two incidents ppl shot unarmed individuals and he says they cant be charged for whatever reason but yet there is a guy holding a gun walking towards me and somehow ppl think i should be charged. Honestly, i dont think a prosecutor would even pick up the case and even if they did the only way a jury would convict me is if everyone of them was a NAACP supporter. I mean if they can charge me for this we might as well throw away our permits and by him even giving them the slightest hope of charges he is weakening his own stance on cwps and why we should have them. Next, if you shoot a rapist in the act of raping a woman in a park then you are gunna go to prison cause he didnt "Point a gun at anybody." These thugs make me sick. The only way you get shot by one of us is if you are breaking the law. Its that simple.

 

[BluesStringer]

Please keep us posted snipingshadow. Good luck and God Bless.

 

[Nightmare45]

Couple of points, SS glad you are safe, second I do not believe there is a requirement in any state in the Union for me to inform a person attempting to rob assault me to stop/cease or anything else. The first/last sound you hear most likely will be bang, which means you have been stopped.

 

[Treo]

The first/last sound you hear most likely will be bang, which means you have been stopped.

Over short distances the bullet will travel faster than the speed of sound, so it's likely that you would never hear the shot at all

 

[Scouse]

A Sheriff is an elected position, saying things for any interested party's? Shows that fact! The Sheriff, only shows a threat to SS, if he lays any charges, talks cheap.

The facts can not be ignored, criminal, armed, starts to rob the Waffle House, an armed (legally) Customer, shoots the person (criminal) with the gun.

We all know how much danger a handgun poses, just a bend of the wrist holding it, threatens ten or more people, all sitting close together.

The only safe way to preserve your safety, shoot the criminal. He did, SS is not injured, no customers were injured, the armed criminal died.

I know one thing, as a none smoker, I would never be in that establishment!

 

[snipingshadow]

Update: I talked to the paper. They got a few things wrong but overall i think they did a pretty decent job. Justin Harrison of Boiling Springs talks about fatal shooting at Waffle House | GoUpstate.com

 

[Firefighterchen]

“They (Williams and Craig) were acting stupid — they weren't out to hurt anyone,” Woodruff said.

His dad is as dumb as his son. Robbing people at gun point IS going out to hurt someone. The rotten apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

sorry SS...keep your head up.

 

[snipingshadow]

oh i am. Nothing they say bothers me. The side opposing what I done is filled with ignorance. Part 2: Stand Your Ground Day 2: Officials have differing views on self-defense law | GoUpstate.com

 

[Treo]

The ongoing drama confirms in my mind the concept that you don't involve your self unless you have absolutely no other option.

Having said that, given the facts as presented here it appears that the OP realy didn't have any other option.

 

[footballboy3]

I live about 5 mins from this waffle house and a church where a crazy guy with a shotgun busted in and was stopped by a CWP holder. I can't believe how stupid society is getting.... "he was a good kid, good kids make mistakes" says the father of the waffle house robber....well, no one in there knew how good of a kid he usually was, all they knew was he had a gun and threatened their lives with it. What part of that makes the dead bad guy the victim?? makes me sick....

 

[Serbear4u]

Hoo-ray for our side! I think.

Every time I read about a citizen defending themselves like this, I think of the gang reprisals, the law suites brought by the survivors of the "he was such a good boy" criminal and the repercussions from our own law enforcement agencies. I've read article after article about home owners that loose everything because they defended their castle. The same is said of the innocent bystander that defends against a would be robber.

This all proves to me, at least, that there needs to be as much effort to change tort as we put into changing the restrictions on gun ownership.

All this having been said.... I don't think it would change my response in a robbery situation. The article eludes to the citizen effecting a citizens arrest. A conversation I had with a neighbor got me doing some research on the Florida statutes regarding citizen arrest. Anyone else look into their states statutes? AND DOES ANYONE THINK OF THE CONSEQUENCES BEFORE THEY ACT OR DO MOST OF US ACT AND THEN THINK?

And just in case the Sheriff doesn't step to the podium... Way to GO!!!

Everyone better have thought long and hard about the consequences, and where exactly we draw the shoot/no-shoot line in the sand, LONG before you ever holster your gun to leave your house. There is not enough time to make those decisions and choices, once a threat has presented itself.

I applaud SS for (hopefully) having done so before this encounter. Who knows how many lives you saved that day, with your split second decision. Or even in the future... because like LAYS potato chips, we all know that criminals aren't satisfied with just once. WTG, buddy!

 

[Serbear4u]

Too bad a life had to be taken...but thanks to the ccp holder, many were spared. Good for him to act and to squeeze the trigger at the moment of truth. This is why we carry...the Sheepdogs!!

We're not responsible for the bad guy, just ourselves. If he kills an innocent, that's on him not us. What if I don't do something and he shoots my wife? In my neck of the woods, this lac would get a free lunch.

I do agree you should think long and hard about scenarios, and decide who you are. Whoever you choose to be is fine, as long as you are comfortable with the decision.

I was waiting for Rich_S and his give them what they want post.

This falls directly in the "you weren't there, you have no idea, put your bias away" category.

The CCer made his choice, I think it was right, since I want there, and I would back him.

Rich_S, the article says a permit holder was attempting to hold the robber at gun point until LEO could arrive on scene. The article also says that the robber raised his weapon toward the permit holder, to me that is called "engaging the target". I'm glad the permit holder did'nt wait for "do not fire until fired upon", that is BS in this situation. The robber was engaging the permit holder, how different is that from LEO being on scene with sidearms drawn yelling at the robber to drop his gun, not following directions, raising his weapon at LEO, and LEO firing like the permit holder had done? I guess the permit holder could of done nothing and the robber could of fled the scene and shot any customers in the parking lot or surrounding area. Sounds to me like the permit holder evaluated the situation before taking action. Granted the incident took place at 1 a.m. and likely not many families around. Maybe if it took place at 6 p.m. with more people and families around the robber MIGHT of been able to run. I'm not saying the permit holder was correct in all his actions, but how many other lives were saved further down the road?

As far as civil lawsuits go, IMO, groups like the "ACLU" (lol), make life in general that much harder. Rights of the robber??? what about the rights of the people that were violated during the hold-up?? Rights of the rapist or murderer sitting in state prison getting 3 squares a day plus medical, gym time, library time, schooling, all on the tax payers bill??? what happened to the rights of the victim during and AFTER the assualt, having to live with the memory of the crime??? And why are there SOOO many people sitting on death row when they were all judged by a group of 12 and found guilty. Why isnt a sentence carried out in a timely fashion? because the PERP has rights??? or it wouldnt be "politically correct"??? like i said, what happened to the victims rights during the assualt?

I applaud the action of the permit holder, and the local sheriff encouraging the public to carry a firearm!! Good job sheriff.

If what you say things are like that in your neck of the woods with civil lawsuits, then sounds to me like Mass is somewhat like NYC.

From what I have read thus far, I honestly think that the concealed carrier did the right thing in this situation.
Because as the saying goes;
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing".
Or something to that effect.

Exactly right! That's why this criminal is now dead...Because 'he' should not have pulled a gun to commit a Felony. Too bad for him!

In Washington state the customer would have been 100% within the law as well.

Ditto for Nevada.

 

[SGB]

Man buys knife, stabs 2 at Salt Lake City store | ksl.com

Utah CC holder subdues knife attacker, according to some here he should have minded his own business.

 

[Treo]

Man buys knife, stabs 2 at Salt Lake City store | ksl.com

Utah CC holder subdues knife attacker, according to some here he should have minded his own business.

You’re comparing apples to coconuts, most robberies end with the robber getting the money and leaving, in the incident you mention someone had already crossed the line and was attacking people.
In the Salt Lake incident I would have thought twice about trying to detain the guy (which I’m not trained to do) as opposed to just shooting him (which I am trained to do).

 

[B2Tall]

Man buys knife, stabs 2 at Salt Lake City store | ksl.com

Utah CC holder subdues knife attacker, according to some here he should have minded his own business.

C'mon, SG.....a thug with a knife isn't in the same realm as a thug with a gun. Not even close, especially in the context of the Waffle House scenario. Not a good example. And it's not about minding your own business......it's about keeping calm, not escalating a situation where nobody has been injured, and not creating a bloodbath.

 

[Treo]

C'mon, SG.....a thug with a knife isn't in the same realm as a thug with a gun. Not even close, especially in the context of the Waffle House scenario. Not a good example. And it's not about minding your own business......it's about keeping calm, not escalating a situation where nobody has been injured, and not creating a bloodbath.

Clearly the voice of a coward.

Don't you know the only reason you carry a gun is to be ready to spring into action to guard the sheep?!?!

 

[NavyLCDR]

To me... if we apply the self-defense standards that some members like to express on this forum, the thug with the knife is less worthy of my attention than the thug with the gun is. I find it entertaining how the same people who say, "Don't mess with the robber with the gun - just let him get the money and run" will then say "the thug with the knife is different! Stop him or shoot him!" Really?!? Let's see... if I am not within arm's or lunging distance of the thug with the knife, what is he going to do to put me in danger? Throw his knife at me? Why is the thug with the knife worthy of my attention as a carrying Joe Citizen member of society just because he stabs a stranger in a store? He's not posing a threat to me or my family. Isn't that what you guys preach? Who cares about the store clerk? Who cares about the store's money? Be a good witness and call 911. If I am not within lunging distance of the criminal, I am in very little danger from the criminal with the knife.

But, if the criminal has a gun, you preach, "Just let him be." Yet, it doesn't matter if I am next to the criminal or across the room. All the guy with the gun has to do within the fraction of one second is turn his gun towards me and pull the trigger and my life is in danger. Again, I don't, and I never will understand some people's reasoning to just let the guy with the gun go and HOPE he doesn't shoot at you, but, by God, the thug with the knife is different!

For the record, my response will be to make every effort to take out either/both the robber with the gun or with the knife. I'm not willing to bet my life or anyone else's on the hope that they don't really plan on using either deadly weapon.