I've Challenged The People Of New York

[BIGJOHN621]

This isn't just a NY issue, to the point of the last post. New Jersey is the same. A traveler was arrested checking a firearm at Newark airport after his plane made an UNSCHEDULED landing which kept him in the state overnight UNEXPECTEDLY. Yes, the original destination was somewhere legal for him to have a firearm but due to (weather I believe) they diverted to Newark and had to spend the night. They gave back the checked baggage which had his handgun and when he went to recheck it in the morning, he was arrested. The argument was that to possess a handgun in NJ, you need an FOID card and, since his handgun was in his possession and accessible to him, he was in violation of the law. He was convicted. NJ has no reciprocity and doesn't issue non-resident permits. They will take your money and let you apply, but you wont get one. Heck, they don't issue resident permits.

Maryland. Almost impossible to get a non-resident permit and no reciprocity.

California. No non-resident permits and no reciprocity.

Rhode Island. Almost impossible to get a non-resident permit and no reciprocity.

Hawaii. No non-resident permits and no reciprocity.

SC and CO punish me for living in NY because they don't recognize my NY permit and accept only Resident Permits of other states.

It is a very dangerous choice we make as the laws are ever changing and stacked against us. Research, research, research. Also, stay out of NY with a gun unless you are volunteering to be the defendant in the test case to try to overturn the laws.

 

[nogods]

My daughter is expecting her second child. When I get the call that she is on the way to the hospital, I can arm myself, stop into a sanctuary on the way to the hospital to recognize the joyous occasion, visit my daughter and new grandchild at the hospital, and then stop by my rod and gun club, sit at the bar with my buddies, and buy them all a few rounds of drinks in celebration.

If I was a resident of South Carolina with a ccw I'd have to disarm before I went into the sanctuary, the hospital, and the bar.

 

[anvil6]

My daughter is expecting her second child. When I get the call that she is on the way to the hospital, I can arm myself, stop into a sanctuary on the way to the hospital to recognize the joyous occasion, visit my daughter and new grandchild at the hospital, and then stop by my rod and gun club, sit at the bar with my buddies, and buy them all a few rounds of drinks in celebration.

If I was a resident of South Carolina with a ccw I'd have to disarm before I went into the sanctuary, the hospital, and the bar.

I'm going to try this one more time before I give up on this thread.

This is not about what superior beings with New York permits can do inside your own Universe of New York. IF your daughter is hospitalized in New York City (and you have only a NYS permit), what can you do then? THIMK, man!

The issue is all about juristictions -- not JUST NYS and NYC ("but New Jersey does it too" does NOT make it right)-- that ignore FEDERAL law protecting the right of those who can legally POSSESS (not CARRY, just possess) the firearm they have in their possession while traveling, at both the beginning and ending points of their journey, to pass thru said juristictions while traveling. The law pretty much says that reguardless of laws passed by any state or political subdivision thereof, such passage while traveling is legal. Nitpicking by juristictions to redefine a "traveler" into a "resident" (thereby subjecting them to all the restrictions on possession of arms imposed by the juristiction on "residents") based solely on durration of a pause in movement thru the juristiction, without consideration of the REASON for such pause, skirts the intent of the law. What IS the meaning of "is", anyhow?

Take Care.

Gary

 

[nogods]

Playing tourists is not traveling through. the intent of the federal law was to allow people going from point A to point B to pass through point C with their firearm. Once a person decides to engage in non-travel behavior in point c they are no longer traveling through point C.

It sucks that the law doesn't account for travelers that get waylaid through no fault of their own. the annser to that problem is to change the federal law rather than try to change 51 state and district laws.

If NYS (or SC for that matter) doesn't want tourists carrying concealed then it is a state's rights issue until a court expands the existing 2nd amendment right to include ccw while outside the home, or federal legislation is passed that overrides the state laws without violating the constitution.

 

[anvil6]

Playing tourists is not traveling through. the intent of the federal law was to allow people going from point A to point B to pass through point C with their firearm. Once a person decides to engage in non-travel behavior in point c they are no longer traveling through point C.

The way jurisdictions define "non-travel behavior" seems to be a problem. Pulling into a parking lot and sleeping in the car because one is too sleepy to safely continue? Checking into a Motel for the same reason? Checking into a Motel for two or three days while a vehicle is repaired so one can continue? Spending a night or even weeks in a Hospital due to accident or illness before one can continue? Spending the night in an airport terminal because the airline left you stranded - again? Checking into a Motel for the same reason? We've heard of travelers possessing arms -- and yes, they were travelers -- being arrested and charged with felony possession due to those unexpected, unwanted, unintentional and inconvienent delays in their journey. I will say that IF one intentionally spends days actually BEING a tourist, then the FOPA protections should no longer apply.

It sucks that the law doesn't account for travelers that get waylaid through no fault of their own. the annser to that problem is to change the federal law rather than try to change 51 state and district laws.

What wording could possibly be added to federal law that rogue jurisdictions would suddenly NOT ignore?

If NYS (or SC for that matter) doesn't want tourists carrying concealed then it is a state's rights issue until a court expands the existing 2nd amendment right to include ccw while outside the home, or federal legislation is passed that overrides the state laws without violating the constitution.

Again, POSSESSION and CARRY are NOT one and the same.

 

[BIGJOHN621]

I'm going to try this one more time before I give up on this thread.

This is not about what superior beings with New York permits can do inside your own Universe of New York. IF your daughter is hospitalized in New York City (and you have only a NYS permit), what can you do then? THIMK, man!

The issue is all about juristictions -- not JUST NYS and NYC ("but New Jersey does it too" does NOT make it right)-- that ignore FEDERAL law protecting the right of those who can legally POSSESS (not CARRY, just possess) the firearm they have in their possession while traveling, at both the beginning and ending points of their journey, to pass thru said juristictions while traveling. The law pretty much says that reguardless of laws passed by any state or political subdivision thereof, such passage while traveling is legal. Nitpicking by juristictions to redefine a "traveler" into a "resident" (thereby subjecting them to all the restrictions on possession of arms imposed by the juristiction on "residents") based solely on durration of a pause in movement thru the juristiction, without consideration of the REASON for such pause, skirts the intent of the law. What IS the meaning of "is", anyhow?

Take Care.

Gary

Ok. Some are trying to say the a NY permit is better because.... That is a d@&k measuring contest that isn't important. That's not the issue as we are also not trying to say that it is ok because Jersey does it, etc. I am pointing out the issues with other states because NY is the lightening rod because it punishes possession and not just carry. I point out other states because the problem is more than NY an it needs to be mentioned. The issue is widespread and needs attention in the entire northeast. Help!

 

[tovisitor98]

I sleep well at night knowing that some of the people on this board promise to never come to NYS and that if they were to come, they can't bring weapons.

 

[BluesStringer]

I sleep well at night knowing that some of the people on this board promise to never come to NYS and that if they were to come, they can't bring weapons.

Perhaps you should wake up before typing.

 

[anvil6]

Ok. Some are trying to say the a NY permit is better because.... That is a d@&k measuring contest that isn't important. That's not the issue as we are also not trying to say that it is ok because Jersey does it, etc. I am pointing out the issues with other states because NY is the lightening rod because it punishes possession and not just carry. I point out other states because the problem is more than NY an it needs to be mentioned. The issue is widespread and needs attention in the entire northeast. Help!

As attractive as it might be to "git 'er done" via Federal legislation, that's difficult under the best of circumstances. A sitting anti-gun President and a Senate Majority of that President's Party are not the best of circumstances for getting Nationwide Reciprocity signed into law. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Make a lot of noise to your elected US Senators - that's being an advocate - ; make sure your friends and neighbors of a like mind also make plenty of noise to those same US Senators - that's being an activist - ; find (or be!) a pro-gun candidate to replace your Carry-unfriendly US Senator and make sure your friends, neighbors, their friends and neighbors support that candidate - that's being an organizer. With "Advocate", "Activist" and "Organizer" on one's resume, one can be President. Heck, one like that is President now. But I digress.

First, it's going to take a sea change in attitudes of those who think along the lines of "only my state's concealed weapon permit holders can be trusted to carry here". Effecting that change is not easy, but it is very necessary because those with that attitude are impedeing reciprocity efforts at both State and Federal levels - a two-fer against us, if you will.

Automobiles kill and maim many times more people than firearms. FOURTEEN US States either do not require a vision test for those renewing their drivers license OR allow them to self-certify that they can see well enough to not be a danger on the road. Every State accepts as valid every other State-issued drivers license. And nobody bats an eyelash about sharing the road with a POSSIBLY visually-impaired driver. What we have learned to accept as "normal" can be pretty incredible, so there certainly IS hope for Nationwide Reciprocity.

Take care and happy campaigning.

Gary

 

[tovisitor98]

Perhaps you should wake up before typing.

Really? How about this guy?

11-23-2011, 06:04 AM #11
Aaron Manning
Aaron Manning is offline Aaron

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I said 2.6 million, but there's no way they could land that many troops on our soil before we could start repelling borders, but the 100k they "supposedly" have in Mexico would be hell to take on, even for the 80 million-plus of us who have a gun. You have to remember, silent doesn't always give you an advantage when the enemy has FLIR and night vision equipped air and land craft which would be SUPER easy to smuggle in on one of the million container ships unloaded each year which are never searched or even lightly inspected. And after they establish a beachhead in Oregon or Washington, NoCal, they could move in equips ashore easily. And they could establish a beachhead before US forces or Americas' brave hunters could stop them.

China is bad news, for real! They have no reason to attack us; we make them to dang rich for that. But they know that most of our industry for making war materials has moved off-shore...mostly to their country. It would take a while for our war machine to get pumping out equips to take them on; I'm not just talking about manufacturing, I'm talking about steel and aluminum, copper, electronics components, etc., too... They know that--so do lots of other people--and someone might exploit that weakness just for shits-and-giggles.

 

[BluesStringer]

I sleep well at night knowing that some of the people on this board promise to never come to NYS and that if they were to come, they can't bring weapons.

Perhaps you should wake up before typing.

Really? How about this guy?

Umm...Perhaps you should wake up before cutting and pasting a load of off-topic, irrelevant crap too?

 

[6shootercarry]

According to the DOJ and the Obama administration we can't have a patchwork of immigration laws for each individual state.. Hummm, but we can have them for firearms? Huh?

More reason to avoid the area
TSA agents who stole $40K from NY luggage get jail time

And to nogood's post about the hospital and the bar while carrying; It serves you well to support preventing others from exercising their Constitutionally protected rights while boasting about how wonderful your rights as a gun owner are in that state, It also paints you as the self-serving individual I've always assumed you to be... "My rights are good, no worries about the rest of you"..

And to know that there are other genetic copies of you around creating more copies, ughhhh... What to write...

 

[nogods]

According to the DOJ and the Obama administration we can't have a patchwork of immigration laws for each individual state.. Hummm, but we can have them for firearms? Huh?

More reason to avoid the area
TSA agents who stole $40K from NY luggage get jail time

And to nogood's post about the hospital and the bar while carrying; It serves you well to support preventing others from exercising their Constitutionally protected rights while boasting about how wonderful your rights as a gun owner are in that state, It also paints you as the self-serving individual I've always assumed you to be... "My rights are good, no worries about the rest of you"..

And to know that there are other genetic copies of you around creating more copies, ughhhh... What to write...

So which is it....

You want Texas to be more like NYS and allow firearms in stadiums, bars, churches, and hospitals, or

You want NYS to be more like Texas and prohibit firearms in stadiums, bars, churches, and hospitals?

 

[twogunwilly]

Allowing Texans to carry in NY stadiums, bars, etc would be best.

 

[nogods]

Allowing Texans to carry in NY stadiums, bars, etc would be best.

Good idea...but will Texas then allow New Yorkers to carry in stadiums, bars, churches, and hospitals in Texas?

 

[6shootercarry]

So which is it....

You want Texas to be more like NYS and allow firearms in stadiums, bars, churches, and hospitals, or

You want NYS to be more like Texas and prohibit firearms in stadiums, bars, churches, and hospitals?

All this time and effort and you still compare the laws of each individual state... What part of "Shall Not Be Infringed" is so confusing for you? You still see it through the reasonable restrictions glasses.

I choose bars, hospitals, churches, any damn place I choose IN ANY AND ALL OF THE 50 STATES... As I am a Citizen of The United States of America first and a resident of MA second... Which one is more important? Which one is trump card?

 

[6shootercarry]

So what individual rights and liberties do they "allow" citizens (or subjects) to exercise in NY? Just wondering if the list looks like the same one they debated in 1789 and ratified in 1791...

 

[nogods]

All this time and effort and you still compare the laws of each individual state... What part of "Shall Not Be Infringed" is so confusing for you? You still see it through the reasonable restrictions glasses.

I choose bars, hospitals, churches, any damn place I choose IN ANY AND ALL OF THE 50 STATES... As I am a Citizen of The United States of America first and a resident of MA second... Which one is more important? Which one is trump card?

So you are a big government anti-10th amendment person, in favor of the federal government regulating our lives with regard to everything from where and what weapons we can carry to health care. Hillary would be proud of you.

If you want the freedom to carry in bars, hospitals, churches, and stadiums, then move to NY. If you want the state to tell you can't carry in bars, hospitals, churches, and stadiums then move to Texas.

There are 1.2 million cc's in NY and only 460,000 in Texas, so if you move to Texas you'll be amongst a lot fewer cc's when you are shopping for those "I love Hillary" shirts at the mall

 

[Tucker's Mom]

This quote comes directly from the New York City Police web site...


What do I have to do to purchase a new handgun?

You must obtain a Handgun Purchase Authorization form from the License Division before you purchase a handgun. Call the Purchase Order Section at (646) 610-5550 for information. After purchasing the handgun, you must bring it to the License Division within 72 hours to have the make, model and serial number recorded on your handgun license.

This means you have to have a license THEN buy a gun??? That is crazy!!!:crazy_pilot:

When did the people of New York turn into sheep?

Perhaps a long time before each one of them can remember. You know when you are used to something, and everyone is the same, you also think it is normal...UNTIL an outsider comes in and want to change everything he doesn't like just because it is different from where he came from...Some stop and think, some don't want change just like they wanted to live that way because they are used to it, some can't just up and go and change and wait for the opportunity to move. Maybe some stay because they like the food fares of New York. The same with Chicago -- they got the nicest food but rotten laws. If you don't live there, laissez-faire! Forget about Joicy -- can't eat their fat guv'nor and nothing there but interesting terrorists hiding and plotting against America..:sarcastic:

 

[jrs]

It appears that the main question is of jursidiction. Having just returned from a trip down south, it was certainly an inconvenience trying to comply with all of the varied regulations. HR822 would have certainly helped in reducing the research time(and lingering questions that remained) to "try" to be in compliance with the laws of each state.

I am a realist and don't think HR822 will solve all of the problems of interstate travel, but I believe it is a step in the right direction for those of us who want to be law abiding citizens and carry at the same time while traveling.
As for our Congressional representatives...even if it makes it to the floor of the Senate, I don't believe we'll ever see Shumer vote for it. He's too much of a "do as I say, not as I do" person. (I've read on another forum that NY's CCW list was mistakenly posted for a short time and his name appeared as having a CCW.) I can't ever imagine him voting for it and dissapointing his liberal democrat base.
As for Gillibrand, she's the 'junior' Senator, and while she supported 2nd Amendment rights while she held a State seat, she's compelled to vote the way the party and Shumer tell her to vote. So, if HR822 is going to pass, I think it'll have to pass without NY's votes.

Finally, addressing some of the comments regarding county by county issuance of CCW permits. If you are in Erie County, it is very difficult to get and "unrestricted" permit, while if you are in Niagara or Cattaraugus Counties (adjacent north and south), it's pretty much a case of apply for unrestricted...get unrestricted.
My experience (and many others I know) in Erie County has been issuance of a Hunting and Target permit, then after 4 or 5 years, you can apply for an upgrade. No guarantee it will be issued. I guess they want to make sure that you're not an idiot and are "responsible" with your firearm.
This seems to be a catch 22 though. If you can't take your gun out of your house except to hunt or target shoot, how does that prove you're going to be responsible to carry concealed?
It's my opinion that they are just trying to make it SO inconvenient, that people just give up.

So, while in much of upstate NY, especially the more rural areas, it may be fairly easy to get an Unrestricted Carry permit, the counties in which larger cities (Buffalo, Rochester) are located, make you jump through flaming hoops to get an unrestricted permit.

All we can hope for is the ability to responsibly (and legally) carry in other states and jurisdictions will become a reality at some time in the future without the need to obtain multiple permits and becoming a legal expert in each state, county, town, city and village.