Would/Should you provide medical care to someone you shoot?

[Deanimator]

However distasteful it may be to you, making an effort to assist the Bad Guy you just shot will reflect more positively on you, the Defendant, at your trial (possibly criminal, almost certainly civil). Of course, if you believe the Bad Guy is still a threat, GTFO and call 911; if they're down and out, make an effort to stop the bleeding and maintain an airway.

A demonstration of humanity is rarely a wasted effort, IMO.

How will getting HIV or Hepatitis C from my assailant "reflect" on me? I'm perfectly willing to be HATED rather than die a slow excruciating death (or maybe a FAST excruciating one) to help somebody who moments ago was trying to murder me.

In Ohio, if it's a good shoot, the odds of criminal OR civil proceedings are vanishingly small, ESPECIALLY civil proceedings. Good luck finding a lawyer who'll take your frivolous lawsuit on a contingent basis, KNOWING that BY LAW even if you DID win, you can't collect a PENNY.

Being a sucker is ALWAYS "wasted effort".

 

[GOV5]

If you shoot someone because you fear for your life, you are trying to stop a threat. If they die, so be it. You weren't trying to kill them, you were just trying to eliminate an attempt on your life. Ignorance(on their part) of the consequences of their actions is no defense. Just like ignorance of a law is not a defense.

I like the quote attributed to John Wayne:
"Life's hard. It's a lot harder if you're stupid!"

Criminals aren't the brightest lights in the room.

 

[ScottMac]

How will getting HIV or Hepatitis C from my assailant "reflect" on me? I'm perfectly willing to be HATED rather than die a slow excruciating death (or maybe a FAST excruciating one) to help somebody who moments ago was trying to murder me.

In Ohio, if it's a good shoot, the odds of criminal OR civil proceedings are vanishingly small, ESPECIALLY civil proceedings. Good luck finding a lawyer who'll take your frivolous lawsuit on a contingent basis, KNOWING that BY LAW even if you DID win, you can't collect a PENNY.

Being a sucker is ALWAYS "wasted effort".

I don't know about Ohio, but in many / most states even a "good shoot" (no criminal liability) will virtually always be followed by a civil complaint by the survivor or the estate of the perp.

The plaintiff's attorney usually work on contingency (no win, no pay) while the defense attorney works for an hourly rate, in the hundreds of dollars an hour range; so even if you are eventually cleared, it will have cost you significantly.

These days, especially with an uneducated and frequently hostile media, it's easy for a plaintiff's attorney to paint the shooter in a seriously negative light, regardless of how justified the self-defense action is. Anything reasonable that you can do to improve your legal position is probably a Good Thing.

As a former medical worker, and as part of my personal belief, I think I would offer whatever medical assistance I could while waiting for police / ambulance to arrive (if I think it is safe to do so). No one can say for sure without having been in the situation (and I have not been, outside of the military), but I think I would.

People and situations are different, if offering assistance doesn't float your boat, then don't do it. My opinion is that if you can, safely, then do it.

 

[crabbys44]

I think we all agree that IF we have to shoot for our safety we are shooting to stop the threat and not to kill the person.

My wife is an EMT and she carries (when she's off duty). My question is, if you had the first aid training, would you provide care to the person that you shot?

I cannot agree with you on your first statement. I was always have been taught or trained to first give the perp every chance to leave your home and or area. Also you have no idea what what the perp is on, i.e., Angel Dust/PCP, LSD, Coke, Heroine, etc., and one needs to shoot to kill and to empty your firearm as he is there for one of two things to rob you, then let him have whatever he wants, or he is there to murder you and your family. There is a third possibility and that is a home invasion and you may be pistol whipped, females raped and beaten, children murdered. No matter why he is there the perp is uninvited and up to no good does not belong there. You wound this person the perp he will have an attorney and sue you, and if you kill him his family will sue you whether they liked him or not ,so you are screwed in any case. But I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6 and take my chances in a Civil Court.

The second part is, read my first part

If he's DEAD, he's STOPPED, isn't he?

If he's stopped and you "shoot to kill and to empty your firearm" you will have a long painful relationship with some lifer in prison. I have 19 rounds in a Glock, or 30 in my rifle, if he is stopped by multiple rounds to center mass and possibly a head shot if there is a failure to stop (not failure to kill) he's likely going to die, which really is a personal problem because he chose to force me to shoot him.

But if he's stopped, you really believe you should "empty your weapon?" I could have anywhere from 16 - 27 rounds left, THAT will be hard to justify in any court. Look at the pharmacist who shot the robber in the head with his first shot and chased BG # 2 out of the store. He returned to the scene, took out a second gun from a drawer, and shot BG 5 more times on the floor. Was he still a threat? The pharmacist obviously didn't view him as a threat anymore since he took the time to get a second gun and go off camera before firing. Oh BTW he was just convicted of MURDER.

The training I've received and given teaches multiple rounds center mass with a follow up to the head if necessary. Is this the most likely way to kill him? You bet'cha. It is also the FASTEST WAY TO STOP THE THREAT.

Just one witness with a camera phone or a lawyer finding your opinion that you "need to shoot to kill and empty the weapon" or even a slip of the tongue saying something similar, will guarantee a prison term and your family will have to deal with the civil suit.

Take it from someone who's BTDT, you don't want to kill the other guy, you want him stopped. If stopped means he dies, I'm good with that.

Sorry OP for the hijack. Would I render first aid? Not until I know I'm not shot, my family is not shot, there are no new threats (his friends) and 911 has been called. "Did you render aid?" "Yes, I called 911 as soon as it was safe to do so."

 

[Bitbight]

This is a question that bugs the heck out of me. First I am retired military, so if I was in a scenario where me/my families lifes are put in danger then I am going to respond to stop that threat. If it means using deadly force to respond to deadly force then that is the level of response I will give. Second, the training I received in my CCW course also guides me in how I would respond to deadly force.

I can personally say I would not render first aid. My training has helped me shoot an individual because he attempted to harm me or mine with deadly harm. If I have stopped that threat of deadly force, why would I now put myself back into danger by getting close to that assailant. You are now jeapodizing your life by getting within the BG range for him to finish the job he started. There is no way for you to evaluate the BG capabilities and/or condition unless you are close to him. If that assailant has not been immobilized he is going to do his best to finish the job he started or escape so he will not be taken by PD. Now who is going to protect your family.

I went to the local EMT school and posed them the same question. The response I got from them was, NO. I asked if they are called out for a (GSW) gunshot wound and arrive before PD, would they treat. The answer was they do their best to insure that PD arrives first. If they are called out on a normal call and arrive and find GSW is involved, they will treat if it is safe to do so. If it is not safe, then no help is given until PD arrive.
Their concerns about me were:
1.) Is the scene safe,
2.) Do you have the knowledge to render the correct aid
3.) Do you have the equipment on you to insure your safety from blood/fluid transfer.

I know that some states have Samaritan Laws that say you must render aid or you will be charged.
1. My thoughts on this would say, if at an accident/incident not involving my shooting someone, give as much aid to the victims as your knowlegde allows.
2. I am sure these laws were not meant for you to help someone who had just tried to kill you.
3. If you have shot someone, your adrenaline is probably pumping at full speed, are you in a steady enough state to render good first aid.

Give this some thought: If you did render aid and the BG attacks you again up close, and you are lucky enough to shoot him again. What proof do you have of protecting yourself a second time when that gunshot has powder burns around it. Are you sure that the PD will not think you wanted to finish the job with a kill shot up close and personal.

Finally, you have done what is required within the statutes of the law. You responded to an attack of deadly force on you and/or your family. You used the same amount of deadly force to stop that attack. You called 9-1-1 and reported the incident. Now let the PD and medics/coroner handle the scene when they arrive.

 

[Doc Mustang]

As a former medical worker, and as part of my personal belief, I think I would offer whatever medical assistance I could while waiting for police / ambulance to arrive (if I think it is safe to do so). No one can say for sure without having been in the situation (and I have not been, outside of the military), but I think I would.

As a current medical worker, I would STRONGLY reccommend that you simply call 911.

Do you have the means and training to ensure that your former assailant cannot harm you further? Are you certain they have no access to another weapon such as a hidden knife or other implament? Likely not

Do you have current certifications in ACLS, ATLS or PTLS and the equipment to make use of such training and certification? Likely not

Following a self defense shooting are you in a physical and emotional condition condusive to rendering, competant, dispassionate and appropriate life saving measures? Likely not.

Will calling paramedics and police to the scene ensure that your assailant recieves the required medical care by trained professionals in a safe, controlled fashion without exposing yourself to further risk of harm or liability? Likely yes.

I leave it you you to descide which course of action is wisest. I am certain which course I would choose.

 

[pj_england]

A post encounter mistake could cost a life or freedom

It is well that persons think about and plan for the aftermath of a violent encounter. It is possible to sit in a not threatened, adrenaline free state of mind and contemplate a plan of action. I recommend attending some training regarding the topic from professionals who understand the laws regarding self-defense and the physiology of human beings during and following the stress of a violent encounter. From the training I have received, I understand that my mind might not be in the best condition to be near an assailant. My safety might be compromised; I might be wounded and unaware. Getting my people to a safe position away from the assailant, away from potential danger, and calling for aid are my priorities. Consult with professionals in the field and an experienced attorney in your state. A post encounter mistake could cost a life or freedom.

 

[JrFreak]

I'm a state certified First Responder and I would not administer aid. However, I am only 'on duty' at work. Not sure how that could affect EMTs who do that as a job. Are they "on duty" 24/7? If so, they might be required to administer aid.

 

[walt629]

If your wife is a good enough shot, she won't have to worry about administering first aid. Personnaly... not a chance in H-E-double hockey sticks am I lifting a finger to help some slime that just tried something to make me draw and use my weapon.

Shoot, move, cover, survey, reload, evade and when safe dial 911 and report.

 

[Unfettered Might]

LMBO!!......no.

 

[jtg452]

If I was scared enough to feel it necessary to shoot him/her/it what makes you think I would feel it is safe enough to get into contact range of them?

I hate it for him/her/it, but the only option I see and they get to lay there and bleed until somebody in a uniform comes to take care of them.

 

[FN1910]

There is no possible way to answer this without knowing many more details of what happened. If I shoot someone it will be clearly that I was in fear of my life from the person I just shot. Once I put a bullet into him that fear will not all of a sudden go away, if it does then you should not have shot him. If he is lying there wounded hollering "help me" I am not going to go ruiing up to him offering first aid. Always secure the scene to be sure things are safe, they don't all of a sudden become safe because of a couple of bullets from your gun no matter what kind of gun and bullets they are. Get help, by that I mean call 911. If you have your gun on you then you need to also have your cell phone on you; No cell phone then no gun. After the assess the situation and if the BG needs first aid and you feel that you can provide it in a safe manner then do it. Remember that even if he is lying there in a pool of blood not moving, that does not mean that he doesn't have another weapon and cannot all of a sudden turn over and start using it. That is why LEO do this terrible thing of placing handcuffs on someone lying face down dying instead of immediately turning them over.

There are lots of things to think about but the first rule of offering first aid to ANYONE is do not become a casulty yourself. Only offer first aid when you can do it safely. The second rule of first aid is get help if possible. Once those two are satisfied then you can offer your help.

 

[jsimmons]

Nope - he wouldn't need care. He'd need a bag - to be carried away in.

 

[dkahrig]

defend yourself

Try to kill me? I don't shoot hundreds of rounds to shoot at someone. I shoot all those rounds to properly defend myself against unavoidable danger to myself and my family. If someone breaks into my house with a gun and proceeds to attack anyone in my house I willexercise the castle doctrine in ohio and I will remove the threat. I will shoot to kill not disable. A fallen criminal can still fire a weapon why chance your childz life or your own? KILL SHOT!!!!

 

[mappow]

Try to kill me? I don't shoot hundreds of rounds to shoot at someone. I shoot all those rounds to properly defend myself against unavoidable danger to myself and my family. If someone breaks into my house with a gun and proceeds to attack anyone in my house I willexercise the castle doctrine in ohio and I will remove the threat. I will shoot to kill not disable. A fallen criminal can still fire a weapon why chance your childz life or your own? KILL SHOT!!!!

If someone breaks into my house , GUN or NO GUN in hand, they're a threat to me and my family and will have copious amounts of lead poisoning upon departure from this earth. Semi jacketed type with extreme prejudice. ONLY draw back in my mind is the clean up afterword.

 

[localgirl]

I'm not saying I disagree with anything said here, but I will say that I hope none of anyone's potential prosecuting attorneys read this thread, 'cause there are some seriously damaging statements here.

 

[fyrbug44]

Great question, a question that I have asked myself many times as I am stuck in the middle. I am a Firefighter/Paramedic and martial artist, that also carries off duty. I have a duty to act, whether I am on duty or off duty. There are a few points that are in my mind. #1 If you try to hurt my family or me I will protect them and me at all costs. #2 It would be nice to say I would render medical attention, BUT...I don't carry around my trauma supplies, or my personal protection equipment (gloves, tyvex sleeves, eye and face protection, BVM, decompression needles, IV fluids, trauma dressing, tourniquets, ect.) when I am off duty, so there is not much I could do except call 911. #3 I don't think I would be in the right frame of mind to "help" someone that just tried to hurt my family or me. I have many other thoughts, these are just a few.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Just curious, why do you have a duty to act when you are off duty? Personal duty or legal duty? I'm also a paramedic, but have no feeling of obligation to help anyone off duty (not that I won't, but that's a personal decision, not a legal decision)

 

[localgirl]

Just curious, why do you have a duty to act when you are off duty? Personal duty or legal duty? I'm also a paramedic, but have no feeling of obligation to help anyone off duty (not that I won't, but that's a personal decision, not a legal decision)

People who are classically trained in the martial arts are taught to never instigate violence, and to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

 

[Deanimator]

I don't know about Ohio, but in many / most states even a "good shoot" (no criminal liability) will virtually always be followed by a civil complaint by the survivor or the estate of the perp.

In Ohio, if it's ruled a good shoot, the aggressor CANNOT collect a PENNY, and that's BY LAW.

Try to find a lawyer who'll take your frivolous lawsuit on a contingent basis, KNOWING he's NEVER going to get paid.