Would/Should you provide medical care to someone you shoot?

[Firefighterchen]

First two things that is taught in ems: is the scene safe? , bsi/ppe (body substance isolation/personal protection equipment)...

They will fail you if you say you will go into a dangerous scene before police.

 

[karle]

My thoughts are this.....if the BG put himself into situation that i needed to use deadly force then how can i be sure that if i were to render aide that he would not again attack me??
Not only that but if u live in a "liberal" area or there are already questionable circumstances ....then u would be opening the door for prosecutor to prosecute you....
As for the states that have "render aide laws" the "blood born pathogen laws" supersede them...since in this day and age no way to tell what diseases someone might or might not have.....and since u just shot them there is obviously the presence of blood, and as such you do NOT have to render aide...

I NEVER want to have to shoot someone.....but if i do i will NOT be rendering aide........
While some say its situational dependent...I personally can and will train NOT to render aide....since in the event of having to shoot some one i would expect to be in an altered state of mind ....and as such will not trust my life or the lives of my loved ones to overlook the secondary weapon of the BG.......its just not a risk i feel that i would ever take......

 

[wooddoctor]

" For those who want to empty your magazine into the BG to make sure he's dead, sleep tight and sweet dreams. (yes, the sarcasm was intended) "

Comments like this can certainly make one consider your sincerity.

 

[mappow]

Sorry to all that don't agree but it is not my job to render assistance I just used lethal force against. Bleed out for all I care, it wasn't me who put this situation in motion. I am the victim, yet due to my forethought by carrying a weapon, I choose to defend myself allowed by Law. I will call 911 and immediately report the shooting. "Please send LEO/EMS to this location, I was in fear of my Life and had to defend myself against the attacker"

 

[B2Tall]

My question is, if you had the first aid training, would you provide care to the person that you shot?

Highly unlikely.

 

[tommyjames49]

I believe the threat is stopped when the last breath is taken. The criminal upon leaving prison can look you up and try to settle tyhe score. I don't want that to happen.

 

[inspgad]

"reasonable assistance" means aid appropriate to the circumstances, and includes obtaining or attempting to obtain assistance from a conservation or law enforcement officer, or from medical personnel.
I could be very wrong, but it looks to me that the law could be pointed at some one who accidentally shot someone, seeing that the Defense, is agreeing with not rendering aide, if the defendant reasonably perceived that these actions could not be taken without a significant risk of bodily harm to the defendant or others.

Defense.

It is an affirmative defense to a charge under this section if the defendant proves by a preponderance of the evidence that the defendant failed to investigate or render assistance as required under this section because the defendant reasonably perceived that these actions could not be taken without a significant risk of bodily harm to the defendant or others.

and no, I would not put myself in the position of being attacked, by a perp that had just tried to kill me, besides the fact that it kind of makes your defense, that "I was scared for my life" a mute point, because how could I, be afraid for my life, if I go up and try to do something to the very perp I was afraid for my life from.

 

[Phillip Gain]

actually "shooting to kill" or even using that expression within earshot of potential witnesses for the prosecution is likely to place you in the position of having to defend yourself against charges of intent, manslaughter, homicide, etc. You should never present the case that it was your intent to end someones life bad guy or otherwise. Its of much concern to me the general lack of fore thought regarding the legal rammifications of defending yourself in todays politically charged society. If you choose to carry or even use a firearm for home defense. You should be fully aware and accepting that you may face a legal nightmare and even possibly spend time in jail. You should decide, know and be committed to what degree you are willing to go before you accept the responsabilities of carry a firearm. If you are firm in the convictions of your commitments then when the bad stuff goes down your only decision will be where to place the bullet. You won't be distracted by "what ifs".
Your willingness and ability to pull the trigger and STOP the threat is what is required of those desiring to carry. Expressing the desire to "kill" an offender only increases the odds of either civil or legal consequences. The underlying gratification of exacting justice or even revenge is natural. But to remain above reproach means avoiding operating on emotion.

My decision on where to place the bullet has been made. Center mass. Repeat as necessary. You make a point about not SAYING "shoot to kill" once you've survived a situation. In that case you say "I was in fear of my life. There's the bad guy. There's the evidence. His friends went THAT way. I'll cooperate further after speaking with counsel. I'm having chest pains, please take me to the hospital."

 

[Iteach4U]

I think we all agree that IF we have to shoot for our safety we are shooting to stop the threat and not to kill the person.

My wife is an EMT and she carries (when she's off duty). My question is, if you had the first aid training, would you provide care to the person that you shot?

Thanks for your input

Absolutely not! If that person has communicated a threat or committed an act against you illustrating they are a threat, then they remain a threat until LEOs arrive, consider LEOs as "backup" at that point. I teach students to remove themselves from the immediate "threat" zone (doesn't mean driving across town) so they can keep eyes-on if possible and locate others who can bear witness if it progresses, then dial 911 and identify themselves as a victim.

What that illustrates:
You have disengaged from the matter.
You have concern for the safety of yourself and others because you called 911.
You may have been the victim of a crime.
You want first responders to arrive quickly.
You don't want the attacker to get away which could make identification of that attacker difficult. (the eyes-on part)
You want witnesses in the event that you are forced to take further action.

It's extremely difficult to beat those kinds of illustrations in an investigation let alone with a jury.

The only circumstances I could see First Aid coming into the picture are if you shoot a loved one, intentional or not, even if they're a threat for that moment you may become sympathetic following a shooting. The other being if an EMT was forced to defend oneself on duty (if they're allowed to carry on duty), then their EMT obligations might be forced to kick in....very dangerous ground right there.

 

[rudiepop]

After shooting a person that has threatened your life the likelihood of YOU being in shock is very high, therefore YOU are not the person that needs to be administering anything in the form of medical assistance or first aid. EVER! Major conflict of interest.

I also firmly believe that if you are a BG your stupidity, irresponsibility, lack of respect, lack of honor and bad decisions does NOT constitute an emergency on MY part. I don’t care how bad you are hurt.

On the other hand, for those of you who run your mouth about shootem till they are dead have obviously not had to take a human life. If you think it is that simple and you won’t be affected you are an idiot and taking a life in war is NOT the same. Shooting to stop the threat will likely end in death but if you shoot a BG that is already down, out and no longer a threat just to make sure he is dead you are pathetic! It puts you on the same level as the fool you just shot. It is one thing to joke about these things on a forum but some of you are obviously not joking. You need to use the brain God gave you.

 

[OpenCarryYes]

" For those who want to empty your magazine into the BG to make sure he's dead, sleep tight and sweet dreams. (yes, the sarcasm was intended) "

Comments like this can certainly make one consider your sincerity.

Don't doubt my sincerity. I was being sarcastic because when some people talk about killing someone else so easily, I don't think they fully understand the changes that they will go through. There may be second guessing going on as to whether you had to kill them or not and most likely nightmares for a long time. Some people have even given up their firearms because it was so traumatic to have to take another person's life. So the sarcasm was really meant for those that think life will be the same for them with no psychological ramifications.

 

[jg1967]

If it's safe to do so (threat down and disarmed, no other threats) you would be well advised to do so. Especially if you have the training and you just let that person die you will look pretty bad in court. Just my 2 cents.

I know we forum people are all gung ho about protecting ourselves and that's okay but let's think realistically.

 

[Firefighterchen]

If it's safe to do so (threat down and disarmed, no other threats) you would be well advised to do so. Especially if you have the training and you just let that person die you will look pretty bad in court. Just my 2 cents.

I know we forum people are all gung ho about protecting ourselves and that's okay but let's think realistically.

Realistically, there are too many situations to say there is definitely a right and wrong thing to do. In my life, i spend most of my time with my family, which means more than likely they will be present when day x arrives...in which case there are more important priorities than medical attention for the bg (I'm a paramedic BTW).

I do not know of any ambulance, public or private, that allows staff to carry. Even a knife unless clearly used as a rescue tool, isn't allowed. That being said...I do know paramedics who carry, and I do know paramedics who have defended themselves...in which case police arrive very quickly, there is usually a substantial amount of fire, police, and other ems on scene anyways, and medics will take care of each other before giving medical attention to the aggressor.

I would expect even less attention to the bg by a civilian or off duty emt.

 

[mappow]

What that illustrates:
You have disengaged from the matter.
You have concern for the safety of yourself and others because you called 911.
You may have been the victim of a crime.
You want first responders to arrive quickly.
You don't want the attacker to get away which could make identification of that attacker difficult. (the eyes-on part)
You want witnesses in the event that you are forced to take further action.
.

There is NO MAY to it, you are a victim, your defended yourself as allowed by Law.

 

[Grognard Gunny]

Anyone who places my (or mine) lives in eminent danger is going to be shot. (If I have any recourse to my weapons in the particuclar situation.) Shoot to stop, but with any luck (and accuracy) it will permanently remove that particular dirtbag from any further efforts of harming anyone else further down his/her career.

Render first aid? Not without exactly the same level of "protection" that hospitals take to insure that blood is not "touched". (In addition to the "make sure the area/culprit is safe" admonition.) Since I generally don't carry such protection or have it in the house..... be damned if I will risk it. (.... and that alone should be a perfectly acceptable defense, should the situation ever arise.)

I have little sympathy for those who break the law and then demand that the "law" protect their "Rights". (The "must render aid" abomination Law, mentioned above..... not on MY watch.)

Thus, it can be concluded, at least in those jurisdictions where Lib anti-gun crap and PC does NOT reign wildly, if you have a "righteous shoot", it will never come to trial. (DAs have other things to do.) Further, efforts must be made, in every State, that the "Castle Doctrine" addressing frivolous civil suits resulting from "righteous shoots" are encoded.

Shoot to stop. Certainly. (... and ALWAYS refer to it thusly!) If you happen to kill the perp, look at it as a public service. (i.e. That dirtbag won't be back out on the streets in a few years plying his trade any more.) Besides, if the perp is alive, by the time he gets out of the hospital, he and his lawyer(s) will have concocted a wonderous "version" of events in the effort to make YOU look like the BG. In this nation, Justice is only served to those with the Lawyers with the best line of BS.

Short story..... a dead perp tells no tales, truth or otherwise.

Bottom line: Shoot to stop, but be damn accurate at it! (Sly wink here!)

GG

 

[SFC]

I think we all agree that IF we have to shoot for our safety we are shooting to stop the threat and not to kill the person.

My wife is an EMT and she carries (when she's off duty). My question is, if you had the first aid training, would you provide care to the person that you shot?

I cannot agree with you on your first statement. I was always have been taught or trained to first give the perp every chance to leave your home and or area. Also you have no idea what what the perp is on, i.e., Angel Dust/PCP, LSD, Coke, Heroine, etc., and one needs to shoot to kill and to empty your firearm as he is there for one of two things to rob you, then let him have whatever he wants, or he is there to murder you and your family. There is a third possibility and that is a home invasion and you may be pistol whipped, females raped and beaten, children murdered. No matter why he is there the perp is uninvited and up to no good does not belong there. You wound this person the perp he will have an attorney and sue you, and if you kill him his family will sue you whether they liked him or not ,so you are screwed in any case. But I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6 and take my chances in a Civil Court.

The second part is, read my first part

 

[marktype1]

My medical care is in the form of 911 when I get a chance to safely use my phone

 

[ScottMac]

However distasteful it may be to you, making an effort to assist the Bad Guy you just shot will reflect more positively on you, the Defendant, at your trial (possibly criminal, almost certainly civil). Of course, if you believe the Bad Guy is still a threat, GTFO and call 911; if they're down and out, make an effort to stop the bleeding and maintain an airway.

A demonstration of humanity is rarely a wasted effort, IMO.

 

[Phillip Gain]

However distasteful it may be to you, making an effort to assist the Bad Guy you just shot will reflect more positively on you, the Defendant, at your trial (possibly criminal, almost certainly civil). Of course, if you believe the Bad Guy is still a threat, GTFO and call 911; if they're down and out, make an effort to stop the bleeding and maintain an airway.

A demonstration of humanity is rarely a wasted effort, IMO.

If the BG is still breathing - then HE IS STILL A THREAT. Without a medical degree and a reliable crystal ball, YOU CANNOT TELL from looking at him how incapacitated he really is.

 

[Deanimator]

1. Having just defended myself from an unlawful deadly force attack, I'm not going to risk giving MYSELF a death sentence by getting AIDS/HIV from my assailant.
2. I'm not going to risk lawsuit over improper rendering of first aid to somebody who only moments ago was trying to maim or murder me.

If you try to inflict on me, death or great bodily harm, you can expect nothing from me in the way of aid besides a call to 911. If they don't get there in time, it clearly sucks to be you. Perhaps that should have gone into your calculus of whether or not to attack me.