Whats your opinion on the florida shooting?


Like many have said, the facts are still not out.

Whether GZ initiated the conflict is still not clear. If he did, does that negate the right to defend himself if he was actually in fear of his life when he was getting hit?

The kid's past history may not be the best but GZ apparently has an even worse history with police and actual trouble with the law.

Either way it looks like two troublemakers collided on that night. I would expect someone older to be a little wiser, especially when carrying a handgun. GZ probably will have a lot to explain either way.

I am figuring out the story just as much as anybody else, learning new aspects each day, each hour. I know GZ had run ins with the law before, but what exactly was he charged with? I have read reports it was domestic violence, where charges were dropped, is that true, and was that all he had?


EDIT: After a little google search, I believe I have his record right. And anyone who can correct it, feel free to do so. He was arrested for "resisting arrest with violence" and "battery of a law enforcement." He was charged for "resisting arrest without violence." This charge was dropped after going to alcohol education program. At that point he has a clean record. He then had a restraining order filed against him from his ex-wife, which he in turn also filed a restraining order against, both of which were granted. He had a speeding ticket, which was dropped, because the officer never showed up in court.
 

OP asked my opinion.
1. The arriving officer and subsequent investigators decision is based on the facts and corresponding witnesses.(period).

They are not going to make a determination based on their own political bent like a freakin liberal would do. Hoodies,race, NAACP Jessie Jackson etc are irrelevant to the cop on the street.
To a cop it is just another case. Determine the facts, determine who is lying, either take your findings to the DA or Close it.
 
I am figuring out the story just as much as anybody else, learning new aspects each day, each hour. I know GZ had run ins with the law before, but what exactly was he charged with? I have read reports it was domestic violence, where charges were dropped, is that true, and was that all he had?

domestic violence and assaulting an officer...both seemed to have been cleared/dropped
 
BC1, do you think the folks that have found Zimmerman guilty in the press of murder are going to be happy with Misdemeaner charges?
No. I think they'll try to go the federal route. But if they get him on the misdemeanor does that open him up to the lawsuit?

I also think the family is making a big mistake by playing the race card. Sharpton's and the Black panther's presence doesn't help things.
 
No. I think they'll try to go the federal route. But if they get him on the misdemeanor does that open him up to the lawsuit?

I also think the family is making a big mistake by playing the race card. Sharpton's and the Black panther's presence doesn't help things.

It was stated on Anderson Cooper 360 last night during an "interview" with the leader of the NBPP, that the family of the slain boy did not want the NBPP there, or speaking for the family. The leader seemed a bit taken when he heard that, shook his head and said "they were there for the family anyway because the family needs a military".

Admittedly I haven't bothered to watch all of the press on this but from what I've seen and read, I can't remember the family saying they believed this to be racially motivated until the forensics audio engineers scrubbed the static to hear what they think may have been a bigoted slur.
 
Excuse me for sounding like a broken record, but we still don't know all the facts. Everyone is guessing (conjecture) on incomplete and most likely incorrect, contradictory stories. I'll just wait for some reliable information. Like I have stated before, I will believe the FBI version after they investigate. Black Panthers and the USAG (Eric Holder) are not reliable.
 
The media will jump on anything that will sell ratings, because ratings = money! Sensationalism sells tickets!

So saying that, I will hold my judgement until I hear everything and see all of the evidence. From what has been reported, Zimmerman made a huge mistake following the kid. Sanford PD made a huge mistake by not conducting a thorough investigation, especially when a homicide has a occurred. Now, did Tayvon make any crucial mistakes?? Who knows, without "DIRECT" witness accounts and his version of the account, we will never know. The old addage is "Dead men tell no tales".

One of the major concerns that I have as a gun owner is the situation that you are confronted with an "unarmed" individual attacking you. We all know, if you get into a grappling/wrestling situation with a mugger, a drunk, or an idiot and they see your gun, they will most likely go for it! Saying that, without having an alternative non-lethal weapon, do I have the right to shoot? Because, if he knocks me out, he will definitely take my gun.
 
The media will jump on anything that will sell ratings, because ratings = money! Sensationalism sells tickets!

So saying that, I will hold my judgement until I hear everything and see all of the evidence. From what has been reported, Zimmerman made a huge mistake following the kid. Sanford made a huge mistake by not conducting a thorough investigation, especially when a homicide has a occurred. Now, did Tayvon make any crucial mistakes?? Who knows, without "DIRECT" witness accounts and his version of the account, we will never know. The old addage is "Dead men tell no tales".

One of the major concerns that I have as a gun owner is the situation that you are confronted with an "unarmed" individual attacking you. We all know, if you get into a grappling/wrestling situation with a mugger, a drunk, or an idiot and they see your gun, they will most likely go for it! Saying that, without having an alternative non-lethal weapon, do I have the right to shoot? Because, if he knocks me out, he will definitely take my gun.
The question that must be answered when wondering when to bring a gun into a situation whether any shots are fired or not is quite simple....

"Is there a for real threat to my life?"

That is the only question that needs to be answered...

Now... about that "unarmed person" myth...

There is no such thing as an "unarmed person". While a person may not have something that is considered a conventional weapon like a gun, knife, baseball bat, brick, or sharp stick, it should be understood that fists, feet, and even teeth, can be used as deadly weapons... So each of us is born with built in deadly weapons.. hence there really is no such thing as an "unarmed" person.

For example a person who is trying to hammer someone's head into the pavement is using the pavement as a deadly weapon.

In fact....

"The Texas Court of Appeals, 3rd District, upheld the conviction of an HIV-positive man charged with using his ***** and semen as deadly weapons."

Entire article can be read here:

Court says HIV-infected *****, semen are dea... [AIDS Policy Law. 1997] - PubMed - NCBI

So much for the old tired "unarmed man" stuff.
 
Oh. My. Gosh.

I'm stunned. Stunned, I tell you. I've heard people say that Martin had beaten Zimmerman to a bloody pulp, and I didn't believe them. I thought for sure they were exaggerating. Sure they were making it up.

Link Removed, and I'm a believer now. Just look at how bloody Zimmerman's clothes are as he's brought into the police station.
 
By the way: we're famous here.

Link Removed

The most prolific writer, SGB of Tallahassee, posted more than 30 comments challenging assumptions by other USA Carry members who criticized Zimmerman."Well, you're long on conjecture but it appears you're short on FACTS as well as knowledge of Florida law," he wrote. "But, hey, that's the trade mark of the lynch mob mentality, please carry on with your persecution."
 
Oh. My. Gosh.

I'm stunned. Stunned, I tell you. I've heard people say that Martin had beaten Zimmerman to a bloody pulp, and I didn't believe them. I thought for sure they were exaggerating. Sure they were making it up.

Link Removed, and I'm a believer now. Just look at how bloody Zimmerman's clothes are as he's brought into the police station.
If that was right after the incident, there is no evidence of a broken nose as claimed. A broken nose would have been packed/taped and Zimmerman would have been breathing thru his mouth. No evidence of injury to the back of the head either. So either it wasn't that night right after the incident or the story is a coverup. A simple bloody nose from getting punched looks to be the worst that might have been possible in the scenes on the video and that had stopped bleeding already..
 
Oh. My. Gosh.

I'm stunned. Stunned, I tell you. I've heard people say that Martin had beaten Zimmerman to a bloody pulp, and I didn't believe them. I thought for sure they were exaggerating. Sure they were making it up.

Link Removed, and I'm a believer now. Just look at how bloody Zimmerman's clothes are as he's brought into the police station.

If Jeff Wiener of the LA Times would have read the preliminary police report (like a "good" reporter), he would have noticed that Zimmerman was treated at the scene by SFD paramedics.
 
If Jeff Wiener of the LA Times would have read the preliminary police report (like a "good" reporter), he would have noticed that Zimmerman was treated at the scene by SFD paramedics.

treated at the scene must also include shout pens/wipes to clean blood from clothes too. the front of that shirt has no blood on it at all. if he did have his nose broken/bloodied, it should have run down when he was upright. and like bob said, it would have been packed/bandaged, if that was the video right after the incident. dont think they would process him in after they removed his clothes from the shooting.
 
By the way: we're famous here.

Link Removed

You know, after reading the linked article, I was pleased that (at least) this media outlet recounted the truth about our discussions here. Did you notice that we were not vilified or made to appear as "gun toting lunatics" or rabid racists for even wanting to hear the full truth of the event?

My personal thanks to the Orlando Sentinel for (at least in this article) remaining an unbiased reporter of facts regarding our discussion. While we would almost certainly have been criticized by many other media outlets, most with an anti-gun agenda, the Sentinel chose the high ground and fulfilled its responsibility to report facts rather than political-agenda-based twisting of our statements.

Here's another "teachable moment" for all of us. Our statements online become part of the historical record. Hysteria and prejudging does not serve us well. A calm, reasoned discussion, as this has been, shows how we, as responsible citizens can discuss an inflammatory subject such as this without too much rancor. Consider the difference between our discussion and the hateful words spewed by the likes of the New Black Panthers, Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan, and to a lesser extent, Jesse Jackson, who seems to be keeping his divisive tongue in his mouth for a change. Just remember; from now until the end of time, your comments to the local audience on USACarry can and will be made available to the world audience.

Let's continue our civil discussion and vet the facts as we learn them, making no conclusions or a rush-to-judgment until the legal system has been allowed to carry-out its duties.

And so it goes...
 
treated at the scene must also include shout pens/wipes to clean blood from clothes too. the front of that shirt has no blood on it at all. if he did have his nose broken/bloodied, it should have run down when he was upright. and like bob said, it would have been packed/bandaged, if that was the video right after the incident.

I may be mistaken, and it is too early in my morning for me to search for it, but I seem to recall that both the police report that was leaked and an eyewitness statement said that there was grass on the back of Zimmerman's jacket, the rear of his head was bloodied, and he appeared to have a broken nose.

Why would these people, the first to see Zimmerman, lie about something like that? At that point, they had no axe to grind and no way of knowing how this case would "blow up" in the media. I'd like to think that they were reporting their observations without bias.

What I'm saying is that there may be an explanation as to why Mr. Zimmerman appears to have been cleaned-up in the video. Surely, the first two eyewitnesses saw something to prompt them to make their statements. I can't believe that they would lie about it for no reason. But, as history has shown, I've been known to make mistakes, so I might be off-base here.

Like all other things, we'll just have to wait and see on this one. Frankly, I was surprised that Mr. Zimmerman did not appear more disheveled when arriving at the police station.
 
I may be mistaken, and it is too early in my morning for me to search for it, but I seem to recall that both the police report that was leaked and an eyewitness statement said that there was grass on the back of Zimmerman's jacket, the rear of his head was bloodied, and he appeared to have a broken nose.

Why would these people, the first to see Zimmerman, lie about something like that? At that point, they had no axe to grind and no way of knowing how this case would "blow up" in the media. I'd like to think that they were reporting their observations without bias.

What I'm saying is that there may be an explanation as to why Mr. Zimmerman appears to have been cleaned-up in the video. Surely, the first two eyewitnesses saw something to prompt them to make their statements. I can't believe that they would lie about it for no reason. But, as history has shown, I've been known to make mistakes, so I might be off-base here.

Like all other things, we'll just have to wait and see on this one. Frankly, I was surprised that Mr. Zimmerman did not appear more disheveled when arriving at the police station.

i must have been editing my post when you quoted, but i did highlight a key line.
 
The video was from 4 hours after the shooting and Zimmerman had cleaned up. The police took some of his clothes that he was wearing. Not sure if that had happened already and the clothes he's seen in are different from those he was wearing at the time of the shooting. I did see a mark on the back of his head. The video is inconclusive to say the least.
 

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