Whats your opinion on the florida shooting?
- Thread starter BOUNTY HUNTER
- Start date
S&W645
NRA Life Member
Funny thing is, I'd be more likely to be called a reverse snowbird. I go north in the fall and winter.
More of the tape was played tonight. And it backed up that Martin was leaving the scene before Zimmerman got out of the vehicle. That means that Zimmerman was continuing while Martin was withdrawing. Zimmerman would lose/lost the protection of law as he was the aggressor at that point. No matter what though, it isn't a race case as Al, Jessie, and most of the media keep trying to make it.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
I'm a little uncomfortable with MilShooter's link. It is interesting, and I think the author tried hard to remain factual, but I don't want to do in reverse what the media has done (and continues to do) to Zimmerman. Neither one of them deserve to be crucified for their lives separate and apart from the events on the evening of 2/26/12.
I've got tattoos too. I'm also taller than Tray was, and heavier too, and though I've got 40 years on the kid, I'm in fair shape. I ride a Harley and wear black leather with patches all over it, none of which is in any way club (or gang)-related, but for which I have been ordered at two different nightclubs to put my "colors" outside as "colors" weren't allowed inside the clubs. I've even smoked pot and dabbled in selling it in my misspent youth. I'm concerned MilShooter's link is playing on way too many negative stereotypes against black youth in an effort to "balance the scales" because of the media's whorish ways concerning Zimmerman. All I've sought to foment in this thread is a dogged reliance on facts instead of judgment.
In the comments of the above-mentioned link, is another link to what appears to me to be proof of the media's practice of agenda-driven hype. Right out of the gate, they apparently doctored the picture of Trayvon in the hoodie. Link Removed, and here's the comparison picture:
This is not meant to characterize Martin in any kind of negative light, but definitely is meant to indict the media. Believe nothing of what you hear from those whores, and this should tell you to believe about the same percentage of what they show you.
Blues
I've got tattoos too. I'm also taller than Tray was, and heavier too, and though I've got 40 years on the kid, I'm in fair shape. I ride a Harley and wear black leather with patches all over it, none of which is in any way club (or gang)-related, but for which I have been ordered at two different nightclubs to put my "colors" outside as "colors" weren't allowed inside the clubs. I've even smoked pot and dabbled in selling it in my misspent youth. I'm concerned MilShooter's link is playing on way too many negative stereotypes against black youth in an effort to "balance the scales" because of the media's whorish ways concerning Zimmerman. All I've sought to foment in this thread is a dogged reliance on facts instead of judgment.
In the comments of the above-mentioned link, is another link to what appears to me to be proof of the media's practice of agenda-driven hype. Right out of the gate, they apparently doctored the picture of Trayvon in the hoodie. Link Removed, and here's the comparison picture:
This is not meant to characterize Martin in any kind of negative light, but definitely is meant to indict the media. Believe nothing of what you hear from those whores, and this should tell you to believe about the same percentage of what they show you.
Blues
MilShooter
New member
I understand what you're saying, but I think maybe you misinterpreted the reason for my post. I simply wanted to point-out that the media was misrepresenting Trayvor as being a little, innocent kid who bought some Skittles and who was gunned-down in cold blood. He wasn't. Trayvor was a full-grown man who (probably) beat the snot out of Zimmerman for following him around. Someone certainly, without a doubt, beat the crap out of Zimmerman. Trayvor was the only other guy there. So who beat-up who?
If Trayvor's behaviors (choices and appearances) fit into the negative stereotypes of young black males, who's responsibility was that? I merely pointed-out that old axiom, "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck."
I'm sure you can understand that daily, we see evidence that young black men attack, shoot, and kill each other for honor. Or some such BS. They all want to be bad-asses or tough guys or whatever is the current term. For the most part, they FIT the "stereotype" or profile. I'm not saying that Trayvor was a criminal or gang-banger or anything of the sort. I'm just saying that he was not as he is being portrayed in the media as a tiny child with a choirboy disposition.
Whatever happened is a sad shame for everyone involved. A young man died needlessly and another man's life is forever ruined because he made a poor decision. There are no winners or losers in this story.
cmhbob
Sig fault.
This. No matter what else. This.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
I don't think I did, MilShooter. I was purposely careful not to criticize your words at all, but rather, comment on a link that you provided. I didn't equate anything that I said about the link to you personally, and that, too, was on purpose. I enjoyed your post, and the link too for that matter, I just think everyone looking for truth in this difficult case should focus on the facts of the case, not the factoids about unrelated and irrelevant issues from either of the principles' pasts. Just like the only picture of Zimmerman in "County Orange" being circulated by the media from a mug-shot that's at least 7 years old does nothing to promote getting at the truth of this case, the link you provided (not your words, but just a link you provided) going into great depth about Trayvon's tattoos, and even showing a picture of a Twitter or FaceBook friend flashing a gang sign and somehow extrapolating that that tends to show a propensity for whatever violence he used in this case, neither stereotyped picture that the mainstream media or your link is foisting on the public is helpful in arriving at the truth of this case.
In short, my previous post didn't question or present a challenge to your views at all. Fair 'nuff?
That said, this post that I'm responding to now does have a troubling undercurrent to it, or maybe not, I'm open to being mistaken. But when I see statements like this....
....I get a bit uncomfortable. Not because I don't understand how you come to such conclusions, or maybe "perceptions" is a better way to put it, but because I catch myself all the time thinking similar thoughts, and it's something in me which I consider a character flaw - something I fight the urge to just accept as "the way it is." I fight it because of what I alluded to before, being a life-long biker who has been judged by outward appearances that have nothing to do with who I am as a person at all, and for the most part, those judgments are nowhere near accurate.
I work in armored transport. I'm atypical in that field, in that I work both in the field on a truck and in the vault sorting, bundling, counting and routing. I work the graveyard shift, and there's not enough stops overnight to justify a full-time route, so they put me and my partner on double-duty to make our positions full-time. My partner happens to be a young black guy, and while at times I do find him to be somewhat knee-jerk in his approach to race issues, the fact is that he doesn't fit any of the stereotypes you allude to above, nor any other as-yet unmentioned stereotypes of young black men. When I say he's a "young" guy, he's 26, married with two kids, one 3 and the other 8 months. We don't socialize outside of work, but coincidentally, he lives in the same sub-division that we do, so I see him fairly often in his "civies." He's got some tats, wears his jeans low, though not, thankfully, with his ass and boxers actually hanging out, he's got 26" wheels on his "whip" of a modern Chevy Impala, and the times I've driven by his house when he's having a BBQ or whatever, all of his friends show one or more outward signs of being "from da hood" too.
When he and his family drive by our house when we're having visitors, they're as likely to see every stereotypical example of Southern rednecks that one can think of. Harleys parked in a row at the curb, pickups with rifle racks in the window, wife-beater shirts that show off fully sleeved tats, leather jackets with large patches of Harley wings, or even a Rebel flag or two, old fat guys with beards braided, and mullets, oh God, the mullets!
If either of us gave into our urge to draw conclusions about the other based only on what we see, as opposed to what we share with each other as human beings, we couldn't work together, period.
This case is rife with potential to not only highlight, but grossly exaggerate, all of the most despicable failings of human interaction. If I gave into those baser instincts, I wouldn't have taken the time to find out that my partner is working these crazy hours so that he can be an active presence in his children's lives while his wife works during the day. I wouldn't have taken the time to find out that he's got an Associates Degree in psychology, and he'll likely spend another decade going to school part-time to accomplish his goal of attaining a Phd in his field. And if he hadn't made an effort to ignore the outward appearances he sees of the people visiting my home, he would dismiss them all as untrustworthy, even dangerous to him and his family, when the fact is, one of my biker friends is a doctor, one is a chiropractor, and one is literally a rocket scientist working at NASA.
All I'm saying is that stereotyping people isn't helpful to finding the true and accurate facts in this case. I believe in general it's harmful, in fact, and that's why I criticized the link. However, as cmhbob points out, your closing paragraph couldn't be more salient or true or profound. I believe we can arrive at the same conclusion without the stereotyping, and without giving the media a pass for such blatant and grotesque uses of the practice either.
Blues
Firefighterchen
OC for Tactical Advantage
Steve357:290860 said:
That did get me thinking...its sad when some one gets arrested for throwing flour on someone else...and now knowing Will Smith is racially biased, I guess I won't be spending money to go see Men in Black 3. Thanks for the heads up.
MilShooter
New member
Blues, I think you DID misunderstand my later statement (as quoted above). I was referring ONLY to those criminals who actually committed the crimes against their brothers. (And I use the term "brothers" not to signify a race, but rather a term to describe their fellow man.) In the quoted part of my statement above, I made no conclusions about anyone except known criminals who had already committed crimes of violence. And I didn't ever mention their appearance. I was trying to be very specific in my characterization of criminals, and NOT Trayvon. But I also wanted to demonstrate, by use of an example that all of us are familiar with, that Treyvor, a healthy, athletic, physically imposing MAN, COULD have been seen in that light. Again, I am absolutely NOT suggesting that he was anything other than a good kid who got involved in a complete disaster. (As an aside, written words are a difficult way to communicate our feelings or intentions. If you had been watching me and listening to me when I made an oral statement like the one above, you would have known from the inflection of my voice and the expression on my face, that I was NOT suggesting that Treyvor was a bad person.)
I agree 100%. Let me tell you some about MY frame of reference. I've already noted somewhere on this forum that my best friend is black, a retired Philadelphia cop. His Lexus is "blinged-out" a bit with 20" spinners, but his Corvette is immaculate, winning trophies in most shows we attend together. But he dresses like a Preppie from the '80's. He always looks like he came from a church meeting. When I made the statement about "Looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...", it was my black friend who first made that observation to me. He laughs when anyone mentions that "profiling" is illegal and never used. It is used all of the time in police work. Evidently, profiling is quite accurate and widely used, although officially forbidden. As my friend puts it, he is much more careful when he approaches a car driven by "gang-banger" (in appearance only) than a car driven by a 70 year-old white woman. Call it what you will, (racial profiling) but the facts are largely indisputable. He really is at more risk in the former traffic stop than the latter. As he tried to describe it to me, it seemed prejudicial, but on the other hand, very pragmatic. Statistics show that he is more likely to be shot by a real "gang-banger" than an old white woman.
My brother, on the other hand, is absolutely covered with tattoos. He has the most beautiful full-back tattoo you've ever seen (in my opinion), and his arms are covered by ink-art. He wears a beard and shaves his head. He stands about 6' 3" tall and is built like a weight-lifter. He is in his early 40's and looks like trouble. But he is the kindest, gentlest man I know. He has rescued more stray cats and kittens than any other person I've run across. He donates his time to cleaning the environment. But when he rumbles-up on his fully-dressed Electraglide, people scurry away from him. So both my brother and my best friend are subject to prejudgement. And all of the prejudgement is wrong.
So I understand exactly what you're saying and why you're saying it.
All I can offer to you is this: I was not trying to cast Trayvor as anything, prejudged or not. My intention was to point-out that the media portrayal (and the flame-fanning incitement to violence by the typical group of Jessee Jackson, Louis Farrakahn, Al Sharpton, and so on) was inaccurate and biased. Factually, the truth is that Trayvor is NOT a little, powerless 12 year-old kid who was pursued and shot in cold blood by a crazed lunatic "white person". Sometimes, while watching the news coverage of the rallies hosted by the rabble rousers mentioned above, I wonder if we're talking about the same event. Media bias is rampant in this case and I was simply trying to dispel the image that was being presented.
I had read all of the posts on this very message thread, and many, many people had already convicted Martin because he chased and shot a little boy who bought skittles and wore a hoodie. Their conclusions were based on outright lies, foisted on all of us by the press and the above-mentioned gang of racial dividers. In fact, all of the above mentioned rabble rousers would be out of a job if they didn't invent controversy and shout "racist" all the time. Evidently, their JOB is to create more racial tension and animosity and it sickens me.
I, like you, make a special effort to see past the façade that people exhibit to the world. I try very hard to not pre-judge people based on their appearance. Rather, I try to see people for who they are. And my misunderstood statement as quoted above regarding established criminals who shoot each other was a simple observation - it is what we see on television daily. Unfortunately, what we see on television is seldom the "real" truth. The link I provided was to provide a counterpoint to the established thinking, which I saw evident in this thread; that Treyvor was not the little boy he was portrayed as.
In the Army, I was offered my first glimpse (close-up) of black people. In fact, it was my first exposure to MANY different types of people. In the induction center, everyone was wearing their civvies, but after our buzz-cuts and uniforms, we all became the same. That was an enlightenment to my somewhat sheltered upbringing. I was very surprised later to discover that my best buddy in the Army, a really squared-away soldier, was a hippie in the "real world". So my world changed. As has yours.
I honestly think we're cut from the same cloth. If I failed in my attempt to communicate my feelings and intentions accurately, it is solely my fault. I am sorry for my failure and I will endeavor to convey my thoughts more accurately in the future.
While I now know to take people for who they are rather than how they look, I cannot turn a blind eye to the violence I see every day on my local news (from Philadelphia) wherein there are multiple shootings every day within the black community. I may never understand their motivation for killing each other, but I should not be cast as a bigot or prejudgemental for making a factual observation about the people who are committing these crimes.
And by the way, thanks for your insightful post. I understand your frustration with the prejudice of appearance even though I haven't been a life long victim of it. It is not often that we hear both sides of a story and it is to our detriment. In recent history, too many people have been tried in the press and convicted because of the biased nature of reporting. I try always to take a breath, and ask, "What's the OTHER side of this story?" because surely, there is something missing in our rush to judgement. I don't always win the battle against myself, but I make an effort.
Best regards,
MilShooter
MilShooter
New member
I made an error in the above post. In the paragraph below, I said:
But I should have said Zimmerman has already been convicted. I wrote this soon after awakening this morning and my mind wasn't yet in gear. Sorry for any confusion.
MilShooter
MilShooter said:
But I should have said Zimmerman has already been convicted. I wrote this soon after awakening this morning and my mind wasn't yet in gear. Sorry for any confusion.
MilShooter
B2Tall
Stirrer of the Pot
I'm about 170 degrees into doing a 180 on this one.
Earlier in this thread I ripped Zimmerman for what I perceived as a ciminally negligent use of his gun and his right to carry. That's changing. New information that has surfaced over the last few days has gone a long way towards making me believe differently.
1. Eyewitnesses are overwhelmingly corroborating Zimmerman's story. As a matter of fact, the only witness that I've seen who has even remotely contradicted Zimmerman was a woman who heard the commotion (but didn't see it) and who said the person crying for help "sounded like a kid". Well, I've seen the aftermath of enough bar fights to know that grown men can whimper like babies after getting their butts kicked. A witness who claims they actually saw the confrontation said they saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, beating him. While not every aspect of Zimmerman's story has been backed up by a witness, as far as we know none of it has been contradicted and the forensic evidence only reinforces it further. He said he was returning to his vehicle when Martin initiated the physical confrontation and attacked him. Since the rest of his story seems to be accurate, unless another witness comes forward to say that Zimmerman attacked Martin, I have no reason to doubt him.
2. There wasn't nearly the disparity in size between the two as was originally reported. We were originally lead to believe that it was a 250lb Zimmerman vs a 140lb Martin. New info has Martin at 6'2" -6'3" and closer to 180lbs and Zimmerman around 200lbs. Not quite the one-sided affair that was first reported. A size difference like that can easily be negated by surprise, anger, skill, conditioning, or just the amount of fight in the dog.
3. Facts that perhaps shed light on Martin's personality have come forth. It seems as though this kid had thoroughly embraced the "thug life". Truancy, vandalism, drugs, burglary/theft (almost certainly), baggy hood-rat clothes and even a gold grill for his teeth (AOL has a pic of him showing it off). I know....none of that means that he assaulted Zimmerman but it does give us a little window into his personality. He wasn't the innocent 12-yr old angel that appears in that picture that has been continuously foisted upon us. It's just more doubt.
While I still believe Zimmerman should have stayed in his vehicle, at this point there's no way I could convict him of anything based on what I've read.
Earlier in this thread I ripped Zimmerman for what I perceived as a ciminally negligent use of his gun and his right to carry. That's changing. New information that has surfaced over the last few days has gone a long way towards making me believe differently.
1. Eyewitnesses are overwhelmingly corroborating Zimmerman's story. As a matter of fact, the only witness that I've seen who has even remotely contradicted Zimmerman was a woman who heard the commotion (but didn't see it) and who said the person crying for help "sounded like a kid". Well, I've seen the aftermath of enough bar fights to know that grown men can whimper like babies after getting their butts kicked. A witness who claims they actually saw the confrontation said they saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, beating him. While not every aspect of Zimmerman's story has been backed up by a witness, as far as we know none of it has been contradicted and the forensic evidence only reinforces it further. He said he was returning to his vehicle when Martin initiated the physical confrontation and attacked him. Since the rest of his story seems to be accurate, unless another witness comes forward to say that Zimmerman attacked Martin, I have no reason to doubt him.
2. There wasn't nearly the disparity in size between the two as was originally reported. We were originally lead to believe that it was a 250lb Zimmerman vs a 140lb Martin. New info has Martin at 6'2" -6'3" and closer to 180lbs and Zimmerman around 200lbs. Not quite the one-sided affair that was first reported. A size difference like that can easily be negated by surprise, anger, skill, conditioning, or just the amount of fight in the dog.
3. Facts that perhaps shed light on Martin's personality have come forth. It seems as though this kid had thoroughly embraced the "thug life". Truancy, vandalism, drugs, burglary/theft (almost certainly), baggy hood-rat clothes and even a gold grill for his teeth (AOL has a pic of him showing it off). I know....none of that means that he assaulted Zimmerman but it does give us a little window into his personality. He wasn't the innocent 12-yr old angel that appears in that picture that has been continuously foisted upon us. It's just more doubt.
While I still believe Zimmerman should have stayed in his vehicle, at this point there's no way I could convict him of anything based on what I've read.
The_Outlaw
~The Dude Abides~
Excellent analysis.
I could not agree with you more.
Now that more information is coming to light, I am also starting to change my opinion on this story.
B
Bikenut
Guest
If you truly are a Florida Deputy then you know it is unprofessional to express any opinions that might have influence on an ongoing case. That alone makes me doubt the veracity of your claim to be a LEO.
I have said before that I thiough that Zimmerman would be indicted but found innocent in this but I am now strting to question if he will even be indicted. My opinion that he made some bad decisions has not changed as the facts are starting to come out but we still do not know all of what happened to actually instigate the fight. My opinion of the police department making a mess of this has not changed and making me wonder what actually happened within the department and their decisions. Early rumors were that Zimmerman was allowed to go home that night with his gun and without having given a full statement. I was watching TV when the City Manager agreed with Al Sharpton on those rumors and as far as I was concerned confirmed them. It turns out that many of the rumors that have caused this uproar are incorrect but the City Manager and Police Chief either confirmed them or failed to correctt them when given the chance. Why they handled it in this way makes me wonder if they were given bad information, just did not ask for the information and started running their mouths or relied on the media for their information. Both the Police Chief and City Manager hadseveral chances to calm this down before it got out of hand but both failed miserably to do anything about the rumors. I know that some of the information was not supposed to be publicized for good reason but to put it mildly those that were in charge ###### up. They allowed the public to swallow the whole media circus deal without any corrections that could have helped the public to understand what actually happened.
We now know that Zimmerman was taken down to the police station and gave a full account (or at least his account) of what happened and there were witnesses that confirmed to a certain point what Zimmerman said. The police had a good reason not to charge him with anything but still should have followed up on what happened and from some accounts did. However for some reason they allowed the story that Zimmerman was patted on the back telling him to go home and sleep well the case is closed to be spread all over the world with no correction. There was definitely a screw-up here but it is starting to look like the blame was placed on the wrong parties. It doesn't matter what race either one of the two parties were and it appears to me that it didn't matter to those doing the initial investigatio and making the decisions initially. Somewhere between then and now all that was ignored and now we have a mess. When Big Al said that Zimmerman was allowed to go home with his gun the City Manager could have handled it lots of different ways but to nod his head in agreement and say nothing was the wrong way. More than just the police chief need to lose their jobs over this.
We now know that Zimmerman was taken down to the police station and gave a full account (or at least his account) of what happened and there were witnesses that confirmed to a certain point what Zimmerman said. The police had a good reason not to charge him with anything but still should have followed up on what happened and from some accounts did. However for some reason they allowed the story that Zimmerman was patted on the back telling him to go home and sleep well the case is closed to be spread all over the world with no correction. There was definitely a screw-up here but it is starting to look like the blame was placed on the wrong parties. It doesn't matter what race either one of the two parties were and it appears to me that it didn't matter to those doing the initial investigatio and making the decisions initially. Somewhere between then and now all that was ignored and now we have a mess. When Big Al said that Zimmerman was allowed to go home with his gun the City Manager could have handled it lots of different ways but to nod his head in agreement and say nothing was the wrong way. More than just the police chief need to lose their jobs over this.
BluesStringer
Les Brers
Well, as if there wasn't enough disgusting, despicable behavior around this case, Trayvon's aggrieved mom decides to make a buck or two off his name. Yep.....
The only other person I can think of whose family put strict usage protections on his name after being shot is Martin Luther King, Jr. He actually had valid intellectual property to protect though, so that made perfect sense to me when I heard about it. This....not so much.
I wonder if the T-shirts and whatever other merchandise might fall under this trademark umbrella, will help the NBPP raise the money for the bounty on Zimmerman's head. I say that somewhat tongue in cheek, and it can be construed that I am being disrespectful to the family. No need to construe anything though. I cannot express how undeserving of respect I find this move.
I acknowledge this has absolutely no bearing on the case itself, but I did think it was an interesting development, and didn't see any need for another thread, so there ya go. Weird stuff.
Blues
The only other person I can think of whose family put strict usage protections on his name after being shot is Martin Luther King, Jr. He actually had valid intellectual property to protect though, so that made perfect sense to me when I heard about it. This....not so much.
I wonder if the T-shirts and whatever other merchandise might fall under this trademark umbrella, will help the NBPP raise the money for the bounty on Zimmerman's head. I say that somewhat tongue in cheek, and it can be construed that I am being disrespectful to the family. No need to construe anything though. I cannot express how undeserving of respect I find this move.
I acknowledge this has absolutely no bearing on the case itself, but I did think it was an interesting development, and didn't see any need for another thread, so there ya go. Weird stuff.
Blues
I figured she was trademarking the name to be able to stop it from appearing everywhere. Maybe so it wouldn't be used in any gangsta' rap songs and vids, or in other undesireable places. My thoughts were that she just didn't want to see it in public. Hope I'm right... time will tell.
BC1
,
While I initially thought Zimmerman was guilty I've since been pursuaded by some posters to reserve judgement until the facts bear-out. So what can we learn from this incident?
Posters need to understand that in the event they use a gun in self-defense, whether they are right or wrong it will probably ruin their life. I learned this long ago from Mas Ayoob. This case is an opportunity for people to understand what happens when they use deadly force. Mas' words ring true.
George Zimmerman did not proceed in an intelligent manner. As a result someone is dead. I see from the many posts that most of us agree we would probably not have acted as he did. Although hindsight is 20/20, Mr. Zimmerman's life is probably over regardless of the outcome of this event. I can't stress enough to my students to keep out of the mix unless there is no other alternative. When you carry a gun you have the power of life and death on your hip. Right or wrong, Mr. Zimmerman can never go home again. He'll need to remain in hiding for quite some time. There are many who might seek retribution against him. Even if the facts bear-out that he was justified he will undoubtedly be sued in civil court where the standard of proof is lower and only a majority of the jurors need be pursuaded. The complaint will allege the homeowners association and it's board & officers are also negligent. A lot of people are about to incur big legal bills. For the shooter and the homeowners association's officers the costs to be incurred in their defense are potentially a devastating, life-destroying event. Whether one wins or loses the lawsuit doesn't even matter. The legal bills alone makes this a loser. The rest of us should follow this case closely... and learn.
For those that care to understand the aftermath of a shooting, I recommend reading Mas' book, "In the Gravest Extreme: The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection."
Link Removed
Posters need to understand that in the event they use a gun in self-defense, whether they are right or wrong it will probably ruin their life. I learned this long ago from Mas Ayoob. This case is an opportunity for people to understand what happens when they use deadly force. Mas' words ring true.
George Zimmerman did not proceed in an intelligent manner. As a result someone is dead. I see from the many posts that most of us agree we would probably not have acted as he did. Although hindsight is 20/20, Mr. Zimmerman's life is probably over regardless of the outcome of this event. I can't stress enough to my students to keep out of the mix unless there is no other alternative. When you carry a gun you have the power of life and death on your hip. Right or wrong, Mr. Zimmerman can never go home again. He'll need to remain in hiding for quite some time. There are many who might seek retribution against him. Even if the facts bear-out that he was justified he will undoubtedly be sued in civil court where the standard of proof is lower and only a majority of the jurors need be pursuaded. The complaint will allege the homeowners association and it's board & officers are also negligent. A lot of people are about to incur big legal bills. For the shooter and the homeowners association's officers the costs to be incurred in their defense are potentially a devastating, life-destroying event. Whether one wins or loses the lawsuit doesn't even matter. The legal bills alone makes this a loser. The rest of us should follow this case closely... and learn.
For those that care to understand the aftermath of a shooting, I recommend reading Mas' book, "In the Gravest Extreme: The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection."
Link Removed
BluesStringer
Les Brers
I'll admit, uncharacteristically (I think and hope), I hadn't given her that benefit of the doubt. I hope you're right too.
roguejesse
Jesse
I call B.S. on your claim of blacks being targeted by CCW holders. The number one threat to a black man and woman is: a young black male between the ages of 16-24.
Please reference your news sources that you read. A few links would be nice.
Plus I would like to see actual verifiable data on CCW shootings.
Please reference your news sources that you read. A few links would be nice.
Plus I would like to see actual verifiable data on CCW shootings.
New Threads
-
Recent TX Appeals Court declaration that ATF arm brace rule is unconstitutional
- Started by lw07
- Replies: 1
-
Hunter Constantine or Phlster Enigma, for running?
- Started by sigsag1
- Replies: 1
-
-
-
Members online
No members online now.