Whats your opinion on the florida shooting?

[S&W645]

Funeral director who prepared Martin's body said there were no bruises or indicative injuries to his hands.

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That article also says the timestamp on the police video is 40 minutes after the shooting.

Time was quoted as 7:54 PM ( 1954 ). So subtract 15 minutes for time to travel takes you back to 7:39 or so leaving the scene. That means under 20 minutes to be treated and released by SFR. Martin was pronounced dead at 7:30 by SFR. Change of clothes hinted at by others seems hard to come up with using those times.

 

[B2Tall]

So here is the problem with that, 4 hours after the incident? The police report says that he was handcuffed and put in the police car at about 1920. Treated by SFR and when released, taken to the SPD for interrogation. 4 hours to treat and take to SPD? It only takes 15 minutes to drive there from the crime scene.

OK so it wasn't 4 hours. I'm just going by what MSNBC said. Regardless, it doesn't take 4 hours to wipe the blood off someone's head. It takes a minute and the EMTs would be perfectly capable of doing that. He wouldn't have had to go home and take a shower....a damp cloth or some wipes would do the trick. We all agree that Zimmerman doesn't appear to have blood on him in the video. That means 1 of 2 things happened:

1. He or someone else (an EMT?) cleaned the blood off of his face/head.
2. He was not injured and the police falsified the report and the witness who saw Martin pummeling him is lying.

Now honestly........which do you think is more likely??

 

[Firefighterchen]

So here is the problem with that, 4 hours after the incident? The police report says that he was handcuffed and put in the police car at about 1920. Treated by SFR and when released, taken to the SPD for interrogation. 4 hours to treat and take to SPD? It only takes 15 minutes to drive there from the crime scene.

OK so it wasn't 4 hours. I'm just going by what MSNBC said. Regardless, it doesn't take 4 hours to wipe the blood off someone's head. It takes a minute and the EMTs would be perfectly capable of doing that. We all agree that Zimmerman doesn't appear to have blood on him in the video. That means 1 of 2 things happened:

1. He or someone else (an EMT?) cleaned the blood off of his face/head.
2. He was not injured and the police falsified the report and the witness who saw Martin pummeling him is lying.

Now honestly........which do you think is more likely??

The EMT's should also have reports on both TM and GZ...so where are those? Patient confidentiality? Why hasn't there been photos released of GZ face with a broken nose? That would surely square away everyone...

So many holes to determine whether either of them were right or wrong. What happens if both are wrong? or both were right?

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[Iteach4U]

Opinions on the matter are overrated at this point. So much of the evidence, like Z's medical documentation if it exists, will be kept quiet until it is presented to attempt to defeat the Feds and local LEOs on the justification of self defense. The Feds know they don't have a case unless they can prove it was a capital murder case.

No matter what happens at this point many who are rioting and claiming the race card are taking what Dr. King fought for and turning the clock backwards. They are in fact becoming bigots themselves and illustrating that they are either bandwagonners or they were raised in a household full of hatred towards whites. (funny that Z has a Jewish last name and he's 1/2 Hispanic....but apparently that makes him 100% white in the eyes of the bigot) It's absolutely unacceptable.

What LE needs to be prepared for is this wave to become increasingly violent and for it to spread like a pandemic across the country. If Z is found justified riots are likely. If he's charged and ultimately acquitted riots worse than the Rodney King incident are likely. If the Black Panthers "hit" is successful you can bet there will likely be race-based retaliation.

The crappy video that ABC News released isn't going to help matters. It's like playing the footage of 9/11 over and over again...it's going to simply breed hatred. Most are refusing to realize that the video is after paramedics were on-scene and the footage is so grainy that there's no real way to tell if there are marks or injuries on Z. After 30+ minutes it's very plausible that the injuries had been cleaned up and the bleeding had stopped. The only way to know for sure is through medical documentation and ABC News is doing a massive injustice on the issue by claiming it doesn't show any injuries. But that's the BHO media for you, they'll never give you both sides, they'll only give you the one-sided issue that serves their ratings and feeds outrage.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Opinions on the matter are overrated at this point. So much of the evidence, like Z's medical documentation if it exists, will be kept quiet until it is presented to attempt to defeat the Feds and local LEOs on the justification of self defense. The Feds know they don't have a case unless they can prove it was a capital murder case.

No matter what happens at this point many who are rioting and claiming the race card are taking what Dr. King fought for and turning the clock backwards. They are in fact becoming bigots themselves and illustrating that they are either bandwagonners or they were raised in a household full of hatred towards whites. (funny that Z has a Jewish last name and he's 1/2 Hispanic....but apparently that makes him 100% white in the eyes of the bigot) It's absolutely unacceptable.

What LE needs to be prepared for is this wave to become increasingly violent and for it to spread like a pandemic across the country. If Z is found justified riots are likely. If he's charged and ultimately acquitted riots worse than the Rodney King incident are likely. If the Black Panthers "hit" is successful you can bet there will likely be race-based retaliation.

The crappy video that ABC News released isn't going to help matters. It's like playing the footage of 9/11 over and over again...it's going to simply breed hatred. Most are refusing to realize that the video is after paramedics were on-scene and the footage is so grainy that there's no real way to tell if there are marks or injuries on Z. After 30+ minutes it's very plausible that the injuries had been cleaned up and the bleeding had stopped. The only way to know for sure is through medical documentation and ABC News is doing a massive injustice on the issue by claiming it doesn't show any injuries. But that's the BHO media for you, they'll never give you both sides, they'll only give you the one-sided issue that serves their ratings and feeds outrage.

Great post. KEPR News had a plastic surgeon for facial reconstruction, saying the picture was too fuzzy and it was not possible to tell on the video if there were injuries. A broken nose can and usually does bleed, but can and usually stops within 10 minutes.

KEPR said they had their expert "enhance the video for the audience." All it did was make me wonder if they enhanced the video the same way they enhanced the 13 year old image of TM to make him look younger. They did show GZ nice picture with a blue shirt and TM picture of him flipping off the camera though, so at least they are getting both sides out now.

What are all of you doing to get ready if there are riots in your towns? (it still amazes me that there is such a violent potential over a seemingly meaningless case [besides being sad that a life was lost], this case doesn't even come close to how disgusting the other more torturous murders of the past week have been....)

>>

 

[elmuelmu]

Is it possible GZ saw an opportunity and set this kid up for a shooting? far fetched, maybe, but possible. GZ looked to be a citizen tired of the criminals in society, by all accounts. We may never know

 

[S&W645]

OK so it wasn't 4 hours. I'm just going by what MSNBC said. Regardless, it doesn't take 4 hours to wipe the blood off someone's head. It takes a minute and the EMTs would be perfectly capable of doing that. He wouldn't have had to go home and take a shower....a damp cloth or some wipes would do the trick. We all agree that Zimmerman doesn't appear to have blood on him in the video. That means 1 of 2 things happened:

1. He or someone else (an EMT?) cleaned the blood off of his face/head.
2. He was not injured and the police falsified the report and the witness who saw Martin pummeling him is lying.

Now honestly........which do you think is more likely??

I'll give you possibly some minor injuries but point out that they do not rise to life threatening. If they put it in front of a jury, I'd say they'd vote for manslaughter. Exactly what the SPD wrote on the initial police report.

 

[B2Tall]

I'll give you possibly some minor injuries but point out that they do not rise to life threatening. If they put it in front of a jury, I'd say they'd vote for manslaughter. Exactly what the SPD wrote on the initial police report.

Should he have waited for his skull to begin to fracture?? Or maybe until he was on the brink of unconsciousness before pulling the trigger?? I would imagine that when someone is on top of you and beating you, the line between grave danger and plain ol' danger becomes a bit blurred.

It's kind of tough to prove an attacker was using "deadly force" if the victim survives. It's kind of like a catch-22....the fact that they survived means it wasn't deadly (Florida's SYG also covers "great bodily harm"). The point is to stop it before it kills you. If Martin had simply bopped Zimmerman in the nose then I'd be with you on the manslaughter charge, but sitting on top of someone and beating their head into the ground is a different story.

 

[cmhbob]

The crappy video that ABC News released isn't going to help matters. It's like playing the footage of 9/11 over and over again...it's going to simply breed hatred. Most are refusing to realize that the video is after paramedics were on-scene and the footage is so grainy that there's no real way to tell if there are marks or injuries on Z. After 30+ minutes it's very plausible that the injuries had been cleaned up and the bleeding had stopped.

Look at his shirt. I'll stipulate that EMS had cleaned up his head and nose if you'll agree that it's hard to see any blood on his clothing. Given the positions he must have been in (recoiling from the alleged nose shot, rolling around on the ground for a minute) I find it difficult to believe that no blood from his nose ended up on his clothing.

 

[SGB]

 

[FN1910]

I thought we were making progress in this thread getting people to wait until the facts are out to make a judgment but it appears that a very grainy video that we have no details of has all of a sudden turned everyone into medical experts and ready to hang Zimmerman again. On April 10 the grand jury will meet and all the evidence will be placed into the record so let's at least wait until then to start construction of the gallows.

 

[kerb]

Interested in opinions...

Should those in neighborhood patrols consider mace or a stunner? How about some self-defense training?

I think they should probably consider using a cell phone and not putting themselves in harm's way at all.

 

[JohnLM]

This case has more twist and turns than a Chicago pretzel!!

 

[kerb]

I'm withholding any judgement until all the facts are out.

However, the media has been spinning this story against Zimmerman from the very beginning.
Displaying a picture of a 12/yo, constantly hyping the candy angle, and just generally doing a terrible job of reporting.

The media really disgusts me.

 

[MilShooter]

A Sample of the Unbiased Media

I was reading the morning (online) papers and ran across this cartoon. I think it pretty-well describes the state of affairs within the liberal media...

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And so it goes...

 

[hogwylde]

I was reading the morning (online) papers and ran across this cartoon. I think it pretty-well describes the state of affairs within the liberal media...

Link Removed

And so it goes...

All I can say is .....wow.

 

[Fyrewerx]

treated at the scene must also include shout pens/wipes to clean blood from clothes too. the front of that shirt has no blood on it at all. if he did have his nose broken/bloodied, it should have run down when he was upright. and like bob said, it would have been packed/bandaged, if that was the video right after the incident. dont think they would process him in after they removed his clothes from the shooting.

After reviewing the video, and some of the additional reporting, I would say I err'd in my statements. It certainly appears questionable that the absence of any dressing on the back of the head and/or nose would back up GZ's explanation of events.

My appology to Jeff Wiener of the OS for challenging his reporting skills.

 

[zeebea]

First, following someone is not illegal and in most PD's the dispatcher is a civilian so he has no right to order jack. second and I admit not all the facts are in and may never be known, but.....when listening to the 911 tape, Zimmerman loses sight of the "subject". The dispatcher asks him if he wants to meet the officer at the mailboxes.(I think it was mailboxes) This would leave one to conclude that he was no longer following Martin. It appears Martin doubled back to confront Zimmerman and after some chatting started beating the crap out of Zimmerman. Zimmerman pulls his weapon and delivers a single shot killing Martin. As I said not all the facts are out there, but if Zimmerman lost contact and Martin re-engaged then MArtin is now the aggresser and Stand Your Ground is in effect. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out but from what I take from the 911 call, Zimmerman was no longer following Martin and was on his way to meet the cops.

 

[BC1]

A broken nose can and usually does bleed, but can and usually stops within 10 minutes.

True. I broke it twice playing sports when I was young. Once it bled pretty badly and stopped within a few minutes. The second time it barely bled at all. Eventually surgery was required to repair the septum.

 

[Dale64]

Look at his shirt. I'll stipulate that EMS had cleaned up his head and nose if you'll agree that it's hard to see any blood on his clothing. Given the positions he must have been in (recoiling from the alleged nose shot, rolling around on the ground for a minute) I find it difficult to believe that no blood from his nose ended up on his clothing.

Ummm.... WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!!
The clothes he is wearing in the video are not the clothes he was wearing during the incident.
His clothing was collected for evidence long before he was brought to the station for a statement.
Nuff said?!?