To open carry or not...


I see you conveniently left out the the part of the letter that addresses the problem.

Damn, you really want to just argue and have no problem ignoring facts in your efforts. That's the whole letter, from salutation to signature.
 

Damn, you really want to just argue and have no problem ignoring facts in your efforts. That's the whole letter, from salutation to signature.

I noticed that too, so that means Firefighterchen made a mistake. I'll bet he said, or will say, "Oops, I made a mistake" the instant he realized/realizes it.

The mistake you made though is in ignoring his quite valid, and to my eyes at least, correct analysis of what the letter said. Just putting the words "open carry" in red did not serve to make your point. Recognizing that the letter was about *firearms* (no matter how they are carried) did serve to make Chen's point. Now will you say, "Oops, I made a mistake?"

Blues
 
Let’s say I show up at your house tonight, being the nice guy you are you invite me for dinner. Once I’m done eating I decide to take your kitchen and move you into the living room, then I decide to take the living room and move you up stairs. I then take the den but promise you the bedrooms are yours forever, until I find out you keep your gold in there. By the end of it all I have taken every thing but the bathrooms, I leave you the bathrooms and tell you, you can fix them up any way you please but you have to allow me access any time I want it. I also promise you millions of dollars for this but you never see a dime of it. Oh and while moving you I wiped out most of your family and left the rest in abject poverty. How do those bathrooms look now?

I have one simple answer for you... who is forcing you to live on the reservation?
 
Open carry is legal in South Dakota but I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen it. I double checked the tribal law and according to the tribal law on Pine Ridge Indians are prohibited from carrying concealed without a tribal license. The tribal law only applies to residents of the reservation any foreigners found in possession would fall under the exclusion rule which seems to mean that once they prove they aren’t tribal members they get kicked of the res.

In other words you are quoting law from a region that is not under Federal or State law, yes? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't tribal land sovereign and separate from the US? So if on tribal land if they banned open carrying (except with a privilege card), how in the world does that play a factor into the Constitution of the United States?


I happen to live on tribal land there for I am subject to tribal law

Yes, I get that. But what I'm asking is if tribal law is subject to the Constitution? I was under the impression the reservation is sovereign from the United States. If this is the case, then on the reservation, any rights as granted to you in the Constitution would be a moot point. If I'm wrong about this, please clarify.
 
Yes, I get that. But what I'm asking is if tribal law is subject to the Constitution? I was under the impression the reservation is sovereign from the United States. If this is the case, then on the reservation, any rights as granted to you in the Constitution would be a moot point. If I'm wrong about this, please clarify.

Damn that's a good question and I’m not sure I can give you an educated answer. The Pine Ridge Reservation is the sovereign territory of the Lakota nation but administered by the BIA so I don’t know what role the Constitution plays and I should. So, I will research it.
 
Yes, I get that. But what I'm asking is if tribal law is subject to the Constitution? I was under the impression the reservation is sovereign from the United States. If this is the case, then on the reservation, any rights as granted to you in the Constitution would be a moot point. If I'm wrong about this, please clarify.

Link Removed

Here is our Constitution it does have a Bill Of Right but does not have a Second Amendment. You can not carry a weapon on tribal land with out a tribal license

Section 1 Enumerated Powers The Ogallala Sioux Tribal Council shall exercise the following powers; subject to any limitations by the statutes or The Constitution of the United States and subject further to all express restrictions upon such powers contained in this Constitution and the attached bylaws
 
Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
I have one simple answer for you... who is forcing you to live on the reservation?
I have an even simpler answer for you It's my home and my families home for 4 generations
And who is forcing you to stay home?

Enough of this "poor me" stuff. You have the ability to better yourself.. and when you do you also have the ability to better the lifestyle of those family members left behind. All you need to do is get off your arse and take advantage of all the possibilities that are available to everyone else in this country regardless of their ancestry.

Or you can stay at home playing the "race card" and complain about "poor you" hoping people will have "red guilt".

Bottom line...

Yeah, crap happened way back when. I seriously doubt my direct ancestors had anything to do with any of the atrocities committed to the Native Americans at the time, and perhaps none of your direct ancestors had anything to do with the atrocities committed to the whites in retaliation (and you damn betcha there were atrocities the "red man" committed! so let us not gloss over that little tid bit)... but the thing is...

You have the unique opportunity to either use the History of conflict between whites and reds to do something to better the relationship between the two races....................... or you can just complain about how terrible things are hoping for sympathy and hoping all us "whites" will be so very guilty we will kiss your arse.

You choose.

Because I am not responsible for the actions of my ancestors just as you are not responsible for the actions of your ancestors.. and I'll be damned before I'll kiss the arse of anyone who plays the "poor me" and the "race" card.

Black "race card" .. red "race card"... same thing. Get off your arse and go forth and change things... or sit at "home" and complain.

Your choice.

Just for context... my wife's previous marriage was to a 50% Chippawaw Ottawa Native American man and I asked for her input before posting this.. and she said that it all sounded about right.

This part I added on my own.

Wanna change things in a meaningful way? Get politically involved in pushing to bring the plight of Native Americans living on reservations into the limelight hoping to have issues resolved. Be aware that the folks who run the casinos might have something to say about upsetting the applecart.

And you do get a check every quarter from the profits of the casinos? Or maybe free medical benefits from the profits of casinos? Or maybe your "reservation" doesn't have a casino and you get nothing?

Let us be totally honest.... Ok?
 
Yeah, crap happened way back when. I seriously doubt my direct ancestors had anything to do with any of the atrocities committed to the Native Americans at the time, and perhaps none of your direct ancestors had anything to do with the atrocities committed to the whites in retaliation (and you damn betcha there were atrocities the "red man" committed! so let us not gloss over that little tid bit)... but the thing is...

I notice when this argument comes up it's generally the guilty party that makes it. Your people tried to cause my people to cease to exist. Nope I'm not going to forget that if I live to be a million years old.

As for bettering myself, I have I went to college and now I work on the reservation to help my people better themselves. I could leave but I owe a debt to my people and I choose to honor it.
 
I notice when this argument comes up it's generally the guilty party that makes it. Your people tried to cause my people to cease to exist. Nope I'm not going to forget that if I live to be a million years old.

As for bettering myself, I have I went to college and now I work on the reservation to help my people better themselves. I could leave but I owe a debt to my people and I choose to honor it.
Nice try but you ignored the bulk of my post that put the responsibility of changing things on YOU! And you still tried to tie things to "red guilt".

Try again.

And if "your people" ceased to exist... who are you?

Oh... may I ask if your college tuition was paid for by the tribe with profits from a casino?
 
I never asked for red guilt, I never asked you for sympathy, I never whined. I was straight from the get go. I will never forget that your nation tried to wipe my nation off the face of the earth and I will treat your nation with due caution at all times. No whining involved.

BTW sleeping with an Indian doesn’t make you an expert any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.
 
I never asked for red guilt, I never asked you for sympathy, I never whined. I was straight from the get go. I will never forget that your nation tried to wipe my nation off the face of the earth and I will treat your nation with due caution at all times. No whining involved.

BTW sleeping with an Indian doesn’t make you an expert any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.

"Sleeping with an Indian?" did you not notice that it was my wife who was previously married to the "Indian"? The Native American man who was her previous husband, and who was a very good man, passed away. Leaving two sons. Which means my wife ISN'T even Native American!!! And how dare you insult the intimate relationship my wife and I have with such an arrogant comment? Make no mistake SIR! Making that comment says much more about you than it does about my wife and I!

It is time for all of us to get past this "white man", "black man", "red man", "you are to blame for the sins of your ancestors" crap and move on to understanding that we are all "men" regardless of our skin color and that it is up to each of us individually to either get off our arses and change things................. or sit on our arses and complain expecting everyone else to change things for us.

Upon reflection I edited this post to remove stuff that wasn't necessary. To those who have read the original version... I apologize for the contentiousness of it.
 
I never asked for red guilt, I never asked you for sympathy, I never whined. I was straight from the get go. I will never forget that your nation tried to wipe my nation off the face of the earth and I will treat your nation with due caution at all times. No whining involved.

BTW sleeping with an Indian doesn’t make you an expert any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.
You're not saying that every nation gets one shot at you before you treat them with caution, are you? <smile> Seriously, treat ALL of them with caution.

IMO, the best thing that could be done for Native Americans would be to eliminate the reservations and give the people the same rights, privileges, and responsibilities due all U. S. citizens. Of course, that would REALLY "annoy" the Native American counterparts of Jackson, Sharpton, etc...
 
Link Removed

Here is our Constitution it does have a Bill Of Right but does not have a Second Amendment. You can not carry a weapon on tribal land with out a tribal license

Section 1 Enumerated Powers The Ogallala Sioux Tribal Council shall exercise the following powers; subject to any limitations by the statutes or The Constitution of the United States and subject further to all express restrictions upon such powers contained in this Constitution and the attached bylaws

Thanks for the link, it was an interesting read. Under Section 1, Enumerated Powers... the section states you may exercise whatever powers you wish as long as that power is not limited by the Constitution of the US. Therefore, if there is something in the US Constitution then the Oglala Constitution and its bylaws can't say that it is acceptable policy on the reservation. However, this then, does NOT cover the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution since that is not a limiting factor but a right granted unto the people of the United States. Therefore, if your reservation has any restrictions about carrying in any way or fashion then it is actually your people that did that to themselves.

This was also my original point when you compared the open carry of South Dakota to your reservation. Your people accepted the limiting factors of the US Constitution but did not adopt all of the rights of the people within it.

Thanks for educating me on the framework of your Constitution and bylaws.
 
I don’t have the nicest house in the world but it isn’t a “hovel” I paid roughly 80K for it. it has 3 bedrooms and it’s a rancher. 80K buys more house in South Dakota than it does in Tacoma. I don’t know where you got the idea that I live in a hovel.

But if you take Pine ridge and compare it to the Dakotas, Wyoming, part of Nebraska, Montana and parts of Canada which is what we used to have you can see where the bathroom comparison came from. How would you feel if China came in here and took all of America and made you live in a couple of counties in Nebraska?
 
Don't fret so much about the historical events relating to the white man taking over the Nations. The Nations had very poor immigration laws that allowed the white man to take over. Now the white man has very poor immigration laws and soon will also be taken over.....karma.....
 
I don’t have the nicest house in the world but it isn’t a “hovel” I paid roughly 80K for it. it has 3 bedrooms and it’s a rancher. 80K buys more house in South Dakota than it does in Tacoma. I don’t know where you got the idea that I live in a hovel.

But if you take Pine ridge and compare it to the Dakotas, Wyoming, part of Nebraska, Montana and parts of Canada which is what we used to have you can see where the bathroom comparison came from. How would you feel if China came in here and took all of America and made you live in a couple of counties in Nebraska?

I believe China owns America now anyways...but for your hypothetical...

If they came and took all of America I would be dead because I would of fought till I died.

That doesn't mean I'm going to stereotype all Chinese people. That doesn't man I'm going to be a racist against all Chinese people.

Next?



Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app
 
We all have the right to carry a weapon. If that person is one that is responsible and has no background of mental health problems to harm one selves or others. I feel it is safer in this country that we all carry to defend our family our fellow man & women and children. Conceal or open carry? myself conceal due to if no one knows your armed you have the choice of how to protect yourself the safest way. You have the upper hand
 

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