To open carry or not...

[croute]

A little background: I've been mulling over the open carry vs. concealed carry for a long time. I've finally come to my own conclusion on the pros and cons. I must admit I'm writing this because of the outrage over the Starbucks letter.

I've always carried concealed, because I don't want to garner attention, yet I feel the need to exercise my rights and protect myself. In my opinion, open carry just doesn't have a place in this time and age. Besides all the shootings making headlines across America, some of the top negative stories regarding firearms stem from people open carrying.

So, what's the point of open carry? I've seen the responses about creating awareness, exercising our rights and changing laws. However, I've also seen how it leads to freaked out people and a lot of negative response. There are more people that are scared at the sight of a gun than there are gun owners. That's just the way it is now. People didn't freak out way back when, because it was the norm. It's not now.

I'm also a believer in "silent" wars. If they see you coming, packing heat, they'll freak out, and so will the government. If we sneak up on them silently, behind the scenes, without them knowing, that's where we'll make a difference and begin to really change the laws. I believe we can carry silently and win the war. I'm afraid that, if we don't, we're only going to keep losing ground.

 

[wcd]

Popcorn popcorn please pass it here. Ok glad you are of that opinion. Me I ail cc or open carry at my discretion.

 

[BluesStringer]

A little background: I've been mulling over the open carry vs. concealed carry for a long time. I've finally come to my own conclusion on the pros and cons. I must admit I'm writing this because of the outrage over the Starbucks letter.

I've always carried concealed, because I don't want to garner attention, yet I feel the need to exercise my rights and protect myself. In my opinion, open carry just doesn't have a place in this time and age. Besides all the shootings making headlines across America, some of the top negative stories regarding firearms stem from people open carrying.

So, what's the point of open carry? I've seen the responses about creating awareness, exercising our rights and changing laws. However, I've also seen how it leads to freaked out people and a lot of negative response. There are more people that are scared at the sight of a gun than there are gun owners. That's just the way it is now. People didn't freak out way back when, because it was the norm. It's not now.

I'm also a believer in "silent" wars. If they see you coming, packing heat, they'll freak out, and so will the government. If we sneak up on them silently, behind the scenes, without them knowing, that's where we'll make a difference and begin to really change the laws. I believe we can carry silently and win the war. I'm afraid that, if we don't, we're only going to keep losing ground.

 

[Peggy Reist]

Living in an open carry state, you wouldn't really think it would matter one way or the other. And maybe it doesn't in some places. Maybe in the bigger cities it might be more common, but I have NEVER seen anyone open carrying anywhere in Kansas. I don't much worry if someone happens to see it, but at the same time I'm not one who wants to call attention to myself.
In other words, I'd like to see it become more common, but I'm not going to be the first. That's just me.

 

[3gunshooter]

Here in Oklahoma we are an open carry state. i moved here from Indiana in Feb. since then I have only seen 1 person OCing and that was in Walmart here in Edmond. Personally I don't. It is your choice.

 

[AndyF]

Here in Oklahoma we are an open carry state. i moved here from Indiana in Feb. since then I have only seen 1 person OCing and that was in Walmart here in Edmond. Personally I don't. It is your choice.

I lived in Norman for 9 years until we moved to Fort Wayne Indiana 7 years ago, I don't recall seeing anybody OCing but I know there were a bunch that CCed.

 

[Warrior1256]

I've lived here two years now, a very pro gun state, and I have not seen anyone open carrying. I'm not comfortable doing it and the only time that I do is to and from my LGS or the shooting range, but that's just me. For those that want to open carry, I'm alright with it.

 

[Firefighterchen]

I've open carried for a couple years now. The only person that I had to deal with negatively was a guy from Texas.

From talking amongst other open carriers, it seems there is a myth that open carry scares the masses, when it's mostly concealed carriers giving us grief. One in the medical field would call that "projection."

From person experience, besides that one negative encounter I have had dozens of positive experiences from gun owners to non gun owners. Open carry isn't normal where I live, but it's not demonized either.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[Bikenut]

The following is a bit long...........

A little background: I've been mulling over the open carry vs. concealed carry for a long time. I've finally come to my own conclusion on the pros and cons. I must admit I'm writing this because of the outrage over the Starbucks letter.

I've always carried concealed, because I don't want to garner attention, yet I feel the need to exercise my rights and protect myself.

If you are referring to carrying concealed with the government's permission slip called a "permit" then you are NOT exercising your rights... you only have the government's permission to engage in a government controlled... privilege.

In my opinion, open carry just doesn't have a place in this time and age.

Let me see... if you feel the need to exercise your "rights" but don't think open carry has a place in this time and age... and a government controlled permit is required for the privilege of concealed carry... exactly how will you exercise your "rights"?

Besides all the shootings making headlines across America, some of the top negative stories regarding firearms stem from people open carrying.

So, what's the point of open carry? I've seen the responses about creating awareness, exercising our rights and changing laws. However, I've also seen how it leads to freaked out people and a lot of negative response. There are more people that are scared at the sight of a gun than there are gun owners. That's just the way it is now.

Do you have cites and/or links to facts that state more people are scared at the sight of a gun than there are gun owners? Or are you just stating what you THINK the ratio is?

People didn't freak out way back when, because it was the norm. It's not now.

Know what would be a good way to make open carry become the norm again? Lots of people doing it would be a great start..

I'm also a believer in "silent" wars. If they see you coming, packing heat, they'll freak out, and so will the government.

Judging by the advances made by open carriers, and my own open carry experiences (I have video and audio recordings of every moment I open carried outside my property for the last couple of years) including one instance where the police were called and the officer proceeded to inform the person who called that I was in the right and they were in the wrong..... and all of the things that I gave links to below... I'd say neither folks, nor the government, "freak out" as much as folks are afraid they will.

If we sneak up on them silently, behind the scenes, without them knowing, that's where we'll make a difference and begin to really change the laws. I believe we can carry silently and win the war. I'm afraid that, if we don't, we're only going to keep losing ground.

Some of my response is within your post in blue.

Hmmm... well...about that "sneak up on them" thing.... folks have been hiding their guns in fear of "offending" and "scaring" for several decades and what has that gotten us? Slow but incrementally more and more gun control.

And about that "win the war" thing...

I can only speak for Michigan yet open carry has resulted in many positive changes. An incident at a Lansing Ponderosa involving an openly carried AR15:

Link Removed

the article doesn't mention that the "working cooperatively with Open Carry to ensure this doesn't happen again." involved the Lansing Police Dept. being retrained in the legality of carrying firearms openly but that retraining was the ultimate result.

An incident in Birmingham involving a young man carrying a loaded M1:

Link Removed

resulted in the young man winning the illegal arrest court case.

And then there was the dust up over the "Arts, Beats, and Eats" festival in Royal Oak:

Activist will be allowed to carry guns during Arts, Beats and Eats festival

Even the Michigan State Police published a legal update to police depts. on the legality of open carry...

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

I, and many other folks, openly carried as we ... in groups or as individuals... attended township, city, village, and county council meetings in efforts to have local gun control ordinances on the books that were in violation of State Law MCL123.1102 be brought into compliance on our own time and our own dimes. And we got those ordinances changed too.

Now... during all the council meetings I attended I did not see ONE concealed carrier stand up in support of getting local governments to obey State law. Actually, and sadly, quite to the contrary as there was one gentleman in a township meeting (my own township!) who identified himself as a concealed carrier and then proceeded to tell me how terrible I was for LEGALLY open carrying into a council meeting using many of the very same arguments you used in your post.

Bottom line... if folks are too afraid to exercise a right ... then they have allowed their very own fear to take that right away from them.

And who needs gun control laws if mere fear of what other people might think is enough to stop people from exercising their rights?

 

[GB-Boater]

So how many of the OC'ers here walk down the street in a city with an AR-15 ?
We just had two do it here. They were detained, questioned, released.
It did prompt several 911 calls.

 

[localgirl]

Navy LCDR will be on here any minute now and it won't be pretty.

 

[XD40scinNC]

OC is why starbucks has now officially requested, but not yet put up GFZ sign's in their store. The question remains, will the OC crowd honor this, or will they flaunt their right by OC'ing into starbucks (who say they will still serve OC'ers).

Personally, I can't honor or protest starbucks request, cause I wouldn't drink a cup of their swill if it were free. My favorite coffee comes out of my coffee maker at home, and I can buy a great craft beer at the brewery for much less cost and calories than that yuppie swill.

 

[Firefighterchen]

OC is why starbucks has now officially requested, but not yet put up GFZ sign's in their store. The question remains, will the OC crowd honor this, or will they flaunt their right by OC'ing into starbucks (who say they will still serve OC'ers).

Personally, I can't honor or protest starbucks request, cause I wouldn't drink a cup of their swill if it were free. My favorite coffee comes out of my coffee maker at home, and I can buy a great craft beer at the brewery for much less cost and calories than that yuppie swill.

Open carry is not why they are requesting firearms to not be brought into their shops.

Misguided media rallies, which involved open and concealed carriers, and uncivil arguments between gun owners and anti gunners are what drove them to pick a side.

Do you mind posting where Starbucks said they would still serve gun owners carrying firearms, openly or concealed?

And no, I will no longer go to Starbucks. I didn't go before because they were pro gun, or to "flaunt" my Right, I went because they followed local laws and didn't give in to anti gun pressure. That's changed, so I will no longer go there.

Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[NavyLCDR]

There are more people that are scared at the sight of a gun than there are gun owners. That's just the way it is now.

And this is the problem. There are not more people that are scared at the sight of a gun than there are gun owners. At least not in most of America. The problem is the anti-gun minority is simply more vocal. I open carry every day. I receive probably 5x as many positive reactions, or honest, non-fearful questions as I do negative reactions. There are many Starbucks stores in Washington where persons with the same interest in guns and open carry used to meet weekly in Starbucks and buy coffee and snacks and sit and catch up with each other - no different than a military spouse club, a mom's club, the knitting group, senior citizens, computer club. The staff likes us because we are regular customers and we are nice to them.

We used to have open carry get togethers and an apartment complex recreation room where one of our members used to live. The vast majority of the tenants and the management liked us there. They said they felt safer when we were there because this place was in a really bad part of town. We would bring plenty of food and share with anyone who came in.

We need to stop believing the lies that the Brady Campaign and others are vomiting every chance they get. Look at Colorado - successful recall of two anti-gun politicians for the gun control crap they passed into law. When was the last time that has happened?

If you haven't open carried on a daily basis, how can you claim to know what it is like and refuse to believe those of us that do? We could post 100's of posts every day on this forum where we open carried all day long and either got a positive comment, or absolutely nothing unusual happened. Maybe that's what we need to do to add to all the "I got stopped today by a cop and he was nice to me" threads.

 

[Firefighterchen]

We could post 100's of posts every day on this forum where we open carried all day long and either got a positive comment, or absolutely nothing unusual happened. Maybe that's what we need to do to add to all the "I got stopped today by a cop and he was nice to me" threads.

Let's do it. A new post for each day. Or will that be considered shoving our firearms in the faces of the concealed carriers on this forum?


Sent from my HTCONE using USA Carry mobile app

 

[NavyLCDR]

Let's do it. A new post for each day. Or will that be considered shoving our firearms in the faces of the concealed carriers on this forum?

I can honestly say that I have had more concealed carry permits/licenses shoved in my face than firearms.

 

[wcd]

So how many of the OC'ers here walk down the street in a city with an AR-15 ?
We just had two do it here. They were detained, questioned, released.
It did prompt several 911 calls.

Treao is that you lol?

ok I can not say that carrying an Ar down main street is a good idea. However I will not condem any one for a lawful activity. With that being said The couple in the star bucks photo in my opinion were hardly concerned with exercising their right to open carry. Instead they were clearly making a statement that says "Wow I am glad to be an American where I am free to make a fool out of myself on an epic scale" Unfortunately open carry in somes minds has become more about hey look at me, I need some attention here! While I will lmaintain there are others that open carry with out incident, or startled masses. And yes I do open carry and ccc daily as the situation and conditions warrant. Again never had an issue, although I do not go on about my business in order to elicit a adverse response either. Not so common sense would seem to dictate that carrying a firearm is a serious responsibility which calls for conducting ones self in a civilized manner.

 

[kennyredhill]

The problem with open carry is that once you have it then you have some idiot that wants to push it to the limit. Oh if I can open carry a pistol let me take my shotgun to Starbucks, you get rid of those idiots and you won’t have problem with open carry.

 

[Sir Diealotz]

I open carry and conceal carry depending on weather, attire and location.

Others have covered all that I would post so I'll just leave you with one outstanding quote.

"Don't Tread on Me"

 

[nybuckboy]

IMO when you OC you do run the risk of someone lifting the weapon from you. It may be a small risk but not out of the question. I tend to agree that that OC in a public place is not a good thing. Hunting, hiking, 4 wheeling, etc but in a supermarket or walking down the street, I don't think so. Again just my opinion.