Loyal, I'm not the OP. Read my posts and you will see nothing about "wacky" atheists. Once again, everyone has a right to their beliefs. You can't file suit to remove anything religious and then turn around and file suit to place ads in favor of atheism. This is what I'm trying to say, nothing more.
Those wacky atheists are at it again
- Thread starter tattedupboy
- Start date
Loyal, I'm not the OP. Read my posts and you will see nothing about "wacky" atheists. Once again, everyone has a right to their beliefs. You can't file suit to remove anything religious and then turn around and file suit to place ads in favor of atheism. This is what I'm trying to say, nothing more.
If you check 95% of the political threads on this site are bashing the left and Democrats rather than working with them to keep our rights, Their constant bashing is actually turning them in to a much smaller minority and sending more power to the left.
There are parties on this site that bash Republicans and call it informed opinion. Yet when anything is said about a particular Democrat it's bashing. Personally I don't vote strict party lines. I guess I would be considered a moderate conservative when it comes to politics. I am Republican but have voted for Democrats as well. I vote for who I honestly believe would do the best for the state and the country. When my opinion differs from someone that's all it is, a difference of opinion. I'm not bashing anyone when I speak out against something I disagree with. It seems you do the same, speak out when you disagree that is.
Compared to most of what I have read on here I am a very religious person but I disagree with many atheists and many other religious people. To assume that the same group sues to halt any religious advertising but then sues to promote ther anti-religion agenda requires more than just assumptions to start labeling them as wacky or anything else.
I am assuming that the bus company that is involved is publicly owned, therefore totally different from a privately owned business or someone's front yard. If they sue to halt religous ads but then sue to promote their ads we certainly have a good case to call them any name we want to and to fight them in court and anywhere else required. They must follow the same guidelines that religions do. There are many religions that I feel the same way toward that I feel toward atheists, they are wrong and they probably feel the same way toward me.
On a publicly owned bus they must either accept all religious advertising or none and Atheism is as much a religion as Muslim or Christianity. The same guidelines must apply. Until I am shown that this group sues to promote their religion and to stop others I can only say that they have the right to be treated fairly and not make assumptions about their actions.
I am assuming that the bus company that is involved is publicly owned, therefore totally different from a privately owned business or someone's front yard. If they sue to halt religous ads but then sue to promote their ads we certainly have a good case to call them any name we want to and to fight them in court and anywhere else required. They must follow the same guidelines that religions do. There are many religions that I feel the same way toward that I feel toward atheists, they are wrong and they probably feel the same way toward me.
On a publicly owned bus they must either accept all religious advertising or none and Atheism is as much a religion as Muslim or Christianity. The same guidelines must apply. Until I am shown that this group sues to promote their religion and to stop others I can only say that they have the right to be treated fairly and not make assumptions about their actions.
Piece Corps
New member
I call 'em like I see 'em. Forget the Democrat label. Forget the atheist label. Let's just stick with left wing socialist and go from there. Are you against the Constitution? Any part of it? You can't pick and choose, just like we Christians like to say about the other so-called "Christians" who like to pick and choose only thne parts of the Bible they believe in.
BUT - I think it's telling that a LOT of Democrats (hint: the president is one) want to turn this country into a socialist concentration camp, where we are all beholden to our generous government, who giveth and who taketh away.
I'm a registered Republican (soon to change), but I consider myself, today more than ever, a Constitutionalist. And last time I looked, our government officials were sworn to uphold and defend the ENTIRE Constitution, not just the parts they like. And when our elected officials fail to do that, then it is time they were replaced.
Show me a few Democrats who are fighting to protect and defend the Constitution. Not a few who own guns, but those who don't think our Constitution should be flushed down the toilet as ancient and no longer valid.
I'm waiting.........
BUT - I think it's telling that a LOT of Democrats (hint: the president is one) want to turn this country into a socialist concentration camp, where we are all beholden to our generous government, who giveth and who taketh away.
I'm a registered Republican (soon to change), but I consider myself, today more than ever, a Constitutionalist. And last time I looked, our government officials were sworn to uphold and defend the ENTIRE Constitution, not just the parts they like. And when our elected officials fail to do that, then it is time they were replaced.
Show me a few Democrats who are fighting to protect and defend the Constitution. Not a few who own guns, but those who don't think our Constitution should be flushed down the toilet as ancient and no longer valid.
I'm waiting.........
1015811414
New member
Atheists are Patriots too!
Let's not forget that the Code of Hamurabi predates the 10 commandments by more than 300 years and is usually referred to as the source of our modern day laws. But more recently we have as the basis of our laws the: Magna Carta & British Common Law.
Atheists can be as patriotic, and support and defend the U.S Constitution and Bill of Rights as fervently as any other non-Atheist. Cut us a break.
Let's not forget that the Code of Hamurabi predates the 10 commandments by more than 300 years and is usually referred to as the source of our modern day laws. But more recently we have as the basis of our laws the: Magna Carta & British Common Law.
Atheists can be as patriotic, and support and defend the U.S Constitution and Bill of Rights as fervently as any other non-Atheist. Cut us a break.
gdcleanfun
Banned
I don't like to bash groups. It's non-productive and often it leads to anger. It's "generalizing" in the worst form. I don't like the term, "informed opinion," when it's used as proof of facts. Opinions cannot be proven. Hypotheses can be proven through sciences, but not opinions. I do like to discuss ideas, because, if I may, it's the thought that counts. If I don't like an idea then I say so. But lots of people on both ends of all spectrums break the rules for how they are "supposed to think," especially when others expect them to mimic hard-core party lines and ideals. Usually, people just don't think that rigidly.
In any case, imho, it's the ideas that need to be discussed, not the person or the party. It is the ideas that are formed as questions, or as hypotheses, if you will, that can be proven or dis-proven. If you state, for instance, "That is wrong," then you are stating your opinion. If you rephrase it as, "Is this wrong?" then you are questioning an idea, and you can go about proving it. I hope this is clearer than mud.
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Very well said GD, and I couldn't agree more. Disagreements will happen and it's all in how you present your side that matters.
HK4U
New member
No according to the founding fathers you owe that right and others to God. Read the Decleration of Independence. The constitution and the bill of rights in particular was written to keep the federal government from infringing on those rights. As far as living by your own set of rules is that not to a great extent what is wrong in America today? We no longer have any standards.]
No problem
Hey, I don't have a problem with Christianity.
In fact, I believe we should all be Christians.
How about we all become Jehovah Witnesses?
You all aboard?
No?
How about old fashioned Mormonism? A few more wifes, anyone?
Hmmm...one wife is more than enough for you.
We could turn to that city of gold and priceless works of art over in Italy for guidance on how to live our poor lives. Calm down Father, and please put those instruments of torture away.
Ok, ok. You tell me exactly which Christians should be running the show.
Be careful what you wish for - you just might get it.
Hey, I don't have a problem with Christianity.
In fact, I believe we should all be Christians.
How about we all become Jehovah Witnesses?
You all aboard?
No?
How about old fashioned Mormonism? A few more wifes, anyone?
Hmmm...one wife is more than enough for you.
We could turn to that city of gold and priceless works of art over in Italy for guidance on how to live our poor lives. Calm down Father, and please put those instruments of torture away.
Ok, ok. You tell me exactly which Christians should be running the show.
Be careful what you wish for - you just might get it.
HK4U
New member
The reason I consider myself not a religious man is because I also have a problem with the sheer number of religions in the world today. Each one says they are the way, however, the Bible says there is only one way and that's through Jesus Christ. You don't have to accept organized religion to be a believer. I don't believe life on earth was a simple accident. I believe God (Jehovah, Allah, etc.) guided the development of the planet and life. Sorry for the sermon, I don't normally preach but had to bring out the point of separating organized church from believing.
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Mixing?
Yes, you are right - I do have a problem, but it is not "mixing religions".
My problem is that:
there are reported to be over 38,000 Christian denominations Link Removed
The ones I named in my post were but 3 of them; they are not separate religions.
Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, to name but a few, are separate and distinct religions.
Which brings me back to my original question: "You tell me exactly which Christians should be running the show."
I will be patiently waiting for a well reasoned, cogent reply.
Yes, you are right - I do have a problem, but it is not "mixing religions".
My problem is that:
there are reported to be over 38,000 Christian denominations Link Removed
The ones I named in my post were but 3 of them; they are not separate religions.
Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, to name but a few, are separate and distinct religions.
Which brings me back to my original question: "You tell me exactly which Christians should be running the show."
I will be patiently waiting for a well reasoned, cogent reply.
HK4U
New member
O.K. you tell me which should not be running the show as you put it? Should only athiests and agnostics "run the show"? Should the minority dictate to the majority. Who's set of standards should we follow? Yours?
School yard
What is this?
This is starting to sound like two kids in a school yard.
First HK4U, a little background introduction would be in order.
As to God: I consider myself an Agnostic; I do not deny or affirm the existence of God - I just don't know.
(I did have what might be called a "Spiritual" experience once; but, that is a tale for another time.)
As to religion: I hope you do not assume that I have not been seeking God; I have - all my life (64).
I've been to Jewish Synagogues, Taoist Temples, Buddhist Temples, and spent a good deal of time in Christian Churches. My home is open to religious friends and neighbors of all faiths - even Jehovah Witnesses, when they come knocking - to hopefully shed some light on my ignorance.
But God (or Nature) has given me a mind that questions everything. When I went to Temple or Church I did not check my critical thinking at the door. When I talk to the people who express a desire in helping me find Jesus, I first caution them that I will be asking tough questions.
So far, when the tough questions start coming, they get going; with the exception of one Jehovah Witness who has not given up on me – yet.
The reason I ask these tough questions is because before I commit my soul to any God or religion, I would be foolish not to try my best to be as certain as humanly possible that it is the True One; otherwise I've wasted a whole lot of time, money, and in fact, will not be going to Heaven.
A problem I have is similar to ronwill, where he posted, “...I also have a problem with the sheer number of religions in the world today. Each one says they are the way...”.
It seems a Tower of Babel has be erected and called Religion.
As far as the question of a place where religion and politics meet; I'll go with the answer Jesus gave, "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.”
There are millions of Americans who believe – you seem to be one of them – that the two should be mixed, with a greater proportion going to religion; specifically Christianity.
This started with you saying, "For those of you that have a problem with Christianity".
To which I replied, "...I don't have a problem with Christianity.".
To be fair, and more specific, I do not have a overall problem with Christianity; however, I do have many questions, with some of the answers posing problems for me.
Getting back to my school yard metaphor at the beginning of this post; I threw the ball to you, “You tell me exactly which Christians should be running the show.”
Now, you have thrown the ball back to me without taking your shot and answering my question.
But, I will shoot the ball and answer your questions:
HK4U: 'Should only atheists and agnostics "run the show"?'
Loyal: Absolutely, unequivocally, NO.
HK4U: “Should the minority dictate to the majority”
Loyal: NO
HK4U: Who's set of standards should we follow? Yours?
Loyal: Mine? I don't know my asshole from my elbow; shit from shineola. But, I am smart enough to know that I am not smart enough. One more...don't follow me – I'm lost. (Sorry, gotta lighten this up a little.)
Seriously, we should follow the same standards that have been working just fine since 1776; they
have served the majority of Americans very well all these years.
HK4U: O.K. you tell me which should not be running the show as you put it?
Loyal: I will; none of them should be running the show. Wherever, and whenever I look throughout history – up too and including the present - and find one religion, or one ideology running the show, I find a horror show.
We don't have Ayatollahs, or Hitlers, or Stalins running our show.
Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power.
Eric Hoffer (1902 – 1983)
So my question to you was not frivolous by any means, especially in light of RNC Chairman Michael Steele's comments just this morning, “It was the base that rejected Mitt because it had issues with Mormonism.”
So, now I throw the ball back to you: "You tell me exactly which Christians should be running the show."
I will be patiently waiting for a well reasoned, cogent reply.
Oh, one more thing: I support and will defend your right to vote for the party of your choice and worship as you choose...except, kissing a rug, I can't deal with that one. I guess everyone is entitled to at least one irrational, emotional response.
What is this?
This is starting to sound like two kids in a school yard.
First HK4U, a little background introduction would be in order.
As to God: I consider myself an Agnostic; I do not deny or affirm the existence of God - I just don't know.
(I did have what might be called a "Spiritual" experience once; but, that is a tale for another time.)
As to religion: I hope you do not assume that I have not been seeking God; I have - all my life (64).
I've been to Jewish Synagogues, Taoist Temples, Buddhist Temples, and spent a good deal of time in Christian Churches. My home is open to religious friends and neighbors of all faiths - even Jehovah Witnesses, when they come knocking - to hopefully shed some light on my ignorance.
But God (or Nature) has given me a mind that questions everything. When I went to Temple or Church I did not check my critical thinking at the door. When I talk to the people who express a desire in helping me find Jesus, I first caution them that I will be asking tough questions.
So far, when the tough questions start coming, they get going; with the exception of one Jehovah Witness who has not given up on me – yet.
The reason I ask these tough questions is because before I commit my soul to any God or religion, I would be foolish not to try my best to be as certain as humanly possible that it is the True One; otherwise I've wasted a whole lot of time, money, and in fact, will not be going to Heaven.
A problem I have is similar to ronwill, where he posted, “...I also have a problem with the sheer number of religions in the world today. Each one says they are the way...”.
It seems a Tower of Babel has be erected and called Religion.
As far as the question of a place where religion and politics meet; I'll go with the answer Jesus gave, "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.”
There are millions of Americans who believe – you seem to be one of them – that the two should be mixed, with a greater proportion going to religion; specifically Christianity.
This started with you saying, "For those of you that have a problem with Christianity".
To which I replied, "...I don't have a problem with Christianity.".
To be fair, and more specific, I do not have a overall problem with Christianity; however, I do have many questions, with some of the answers posing problems for me.
Getting back to my school yard metaphor at the beginning of this post; I threw the ball to you, “You tell me exactly which Christians should be running the show.”
Now, you have thrown the ball back to me without taking your shot and answering my question.
But, I will shoot the ball and answer your questions:
HK4U: 'Should only atheists and agnostics "run the show"?'
Loyal: Absolutely, unequivocally, NO.
HK4U: “Should the minority dictate to the majority”
Loyal: NO
HK4U: Who's set of standards should we follow? Yours?
Loyal: Mine? I don't know my asshole from my elbow; shit from shineola. But, I am smart enough to know that I am not smart enough. One more...don't follow me – I'm lost. (Sorry, gotta lighten this up a little.)
Seriously, we should follow the same standards that have been working just fine since 1776; they
have served the majority of Americans very well all these years.
HK4U: O.K. you tell me which should not be running the show as you put it?
Loyal: I will; none of them should be running the show. Wherever, and whenever I look throughout history – up too and including the present - and find one religion, or one ideology running the show, I find a horror show.
We don't have Ayatollahs, or Hitlers, or Stalins running our show.
Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power.
Eric Hoffer (1902 – 1983)
So my question to you was not frivolous by any means, especially in light of RNC Chairman Michael Steele's comments just this morning, “It was the base that rejected Mitt because it had issues with Mormonism.”
So, now I throw the ball back to you: "You tell me exactly which Christians should be running the show."
I will be patiently waiting for a well reasoned, cogent reply.
Oh, one more thing: I support and will defend your right to vote for the party of your choice and worship as you choose...except, kissing a rug, I can't deal with that one. I guess everyone is entitled to at least one irrational, emotional response.
NMHunter
NM Hunter
"That is exactly why the 10 commandments where removed and God taken out of the pledge of allegiance, to stop forcing those beliefs on others."
Interesting, I do believe that the start of this country is based on Judeo-Christian priciples and we grew as a country and didn't do too badly on that basis. As far as I know God is still in the Pledge.
If not on the basis of the law of God what was this country founded? If not on God given rights what are our basic civil rights based? They cannot be the gift of government as then government would be able to take them away and rightly so. I refuse that dangerous base.
Interesting, I do believe that the start of this country is based on Judeo-Christian priciples and we grew as a country and didn't do too badly on that basis. As far as I know God is still in the Pledge.
If not on the basis of the law of God what was this country founded? If not on God given rights what are our basic civil rights based? They cannot be the gift of government as then government would be able to take them away and rightly so. I refuse that dangerous base.
HK4U
New member
Loyal I agree there are a lot of religions out there. Everyone has to decide for themselves which one is "the one". I too have a problem with the whole religion thing. I don't even like the words religion or religious. Personally I feel religion is man trying to work out his salvation. Trying to work his way to God but Christianity is a loving God that reached out to man by sending his Son to pay the price that man could never pay. As festus said on this thread or another one I do not understand why God loved me enough to send his Son to suffer and die in my place but I am sure glad he did becuase if my salvation depended on me being good enough anything that I would do would fall short.
Thank you
Thank you for a reply I would expect to get from a real Christian; you gave me a well thought out response with honesty and sincerity - without resorting to nasty ad hominem attacks.
I have a friend by the name of Ernie; he is in construction. For his vacations he goes to poor places, and along with a couple of fellow Christians, builds simple homes and spreads the Word by deeds.
I have never heard Ernie utter a bad word about anyone, never lift his voice in anger, and I have personally seen him turn away from great temptation.
I have had many long conversations with him about faith, Jesus and Christianity.
He has told me that he uses his strong faith in Jesus as a powerful bulwark to work on his human faults, and give him strength to reject temptation.
Sadly, he is only one of a small handful of people that I have known in my life that were truly worthy of being called Christian.
I know there are others like him out there... I have a feeling you may be one of them.
Thank you for a reply I would expect to get from a real Christian; you gave me a well thought out response with honesty and sincerity - without resorting to nasty ad hominem attacks.
I have a friend by the name of Ernie; he is in construction. For his vacations he goes to poor places, and along with a couple of fellow Christians, builds simple homes and spreads the Word by deeds.
I have never heard Ernie utter a bad word about anyone, never lift his voice in anger, and I have personally seen him turn away from great temptation.
I have had many long conversations with him about faith, Jesus and Christianity.
He has told me that he uses his strong faith in Jesus as a powerful bulwark to work on his human faults, and give him strength to reject temptation.
Sadly, he is only one of a small handful of people that I have known in my life that were truly worthy of being called Christian.
I know there are others like him out there... I have a feeling you may be one of them.
HK4U
New member
Thank you Loyal. I wish all Christians including myself would let the love of Christ shine through them more often. I try to live my live in a way that would give glory to Christ and point others to him but if I am honest I will have to admit there are times when I fail. Thank the Lord I received grace and not what I deserved.
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