The trial of George Zimmerman

[Rhino]

At the point GZ hung up the phone & was told not to pursue....

Zimmerman was never told not to pursue. The word "pursue" was never even spoken in the 911 call. It hasn't been mentioned in court either to my knowledge. He isn't being accused of it anyway. He followed Martin, but only to the extent needed to maintain sight of him, not to confront. That's what a neighborhood watch does, maintain sight and report. And he wasn't told not to follow either. He was simply informed that is wasn't necessary for him to do so. Read the transcript of the 911 call. It's been available for a very long time.
.

Zimmerman required no stitches or hospitalization. If, as many on here claim, his head was getting slammed repeatedly into the ground, wouldn't Zimmerman have lost consciousness or at least required some kind of medical attention? He required NONE! The injuries shown on Zimmerman's head are more likely the result of his head scraping the ground, but hardly anything life threatening.

You obviously know very little about head wounds. People die from blows to the head without ever spilling a drop of blood. And an after the fact analysis of the wounds means nothing anyway. All that matters is the perceived threat that Zimmerman felt at the time. Somebody can raise a baseball bat over your head and you can shoot them in self defense even though you have received no physical injury whatsoever. That's because you perceived a threat to your life, and no physical injury is necessary for that to be the case. If someone is pounding your head into a concrete sidewalk, you don't wait until the injuries become more severe before you defend yourself. That would make you dead, permanently crippled or at the very least one of the biggest idiots to ever walk the face of the earth.

 

[tattedupboy]

Right. So you should wait to be knocked unconscious before deciding your life is at risk? Nope, not me.
It doesn't take much of a blow to the back of the head to do serious damage.

Did you miss the testimony of the PA who treated him?

No, not saying that at all. He should have fought back.

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[SR40c]

At the point GZ hung up the phone & was told not to pursue, TM had already moved away. GZ pursued. As far as who struck who first is not a fact we can prove. We can only look at phone conversations & at witnesses. That is all. Past history can play into swaying judgment, but and again, motive &intent in the heat of the moment.

"Following" somebody is not engaging them. Secondly, it's already been established who "engaged" who. By all means, stick to the media's pipe dream. Not one of those pipe dreams have been proven in court.

 

[tattedupboy]

No, not saying that at all. He should have fought back.



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And I don't buy this theory that Zimmerman's head was being pounded into the sidewalk. If it had, he would've lost consciousness.

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[kerb]

No, not saying that at all. He should have fought back.

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I honestly don't think he had either the knowhow or the physical ability to.
I don't know if you've ever had someone on top of you in full mount, but it can be a very difficult position to get out of.
Even if you are in shape and know what you are doing.

 

[Firefighterchen]

Right. So you should wait to be knocked unconscious before deciding your life is at risk? Nope, not me.
It doesn't take much of a blow to the back of the head to do serious damage.

Did you miss the testimony of the PA who treated him?

Actually you have to wait till you die so you know it's really deadly force before you defend yourself.

 

[BC1]

For some reason, I have a hard time believing that she is nice in person. Maybe without cameras around, she feels exposed and vulnerable?

Yup, a very nice lady indeed.

 

[BC1]

And I don't buy this theory that Zimmerman's head was being pounded into the sidewalk. If it had, he would've lost consciousness.

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Fractured my skull as a kid and didn't lose consciousness.

 

[BluesStringer]

You obviously know very little about head wounds.... ....If someone is pounding your head into a concrete sidewalk, you don't wait until the injuries become more severe before you defend yourself....

Just a quick anecdote that relates to closed head wounds that can (and often do) kill:

November 11, 1972, a motorcyclist was traveling through town in Macon, GA when a city bus and he collided as the bus was merging into his lane. The biker's head struck the side of the bus with a glancing contact that didn't even leave an abrasion on his head. His bike went down, as did he, but suffered no injuries in the fall and did not suffer any other blows to his head. A friend was following behind the biker when the accident happened, and they loaded the scooter in the back of the friend's pickup together and headed back to the ranch from whence they had come. The biker assured everyone back at the house that he was fine, including his wife, the friend and several of his business partners who lived there with him. Less than an hour later, the biker started acting weird, and his strange movements and unintelligible utterances quickly progressed to screams of pain and bodily convulsions. He died in the hospital less than an hour after he presented with those symptoms. He had a closed brain trauma caused by his brain accelerating to the side within his skull, decelerating when it hit his skull, and hyper-accelerating in the opposite direction, "bouncing" away from the impact site. It took less than an hour for his brain to start swelling within his skull before he started presenting symptoms of a brain injury, and back in '72, even the emergency room doctor(s) had no clue what was going on with him. By the way, he was wearing a government-mandated helmet, which obviously did not protect him from exactly the kind of injury helmets are ostensibly designed to protect against, but I digress....

The biker's name was Berry Oakley. He was the original bass player for The Allman Brothers Band, and the account of his death has been public knowledge since within days of the events described above. The friend whose pickup truck they loaded his bike in was Joseph "Red Dog" Campbell, my life-long friend since I was 14, who succumbed to cancer on February 21, 2011, also in Macon, GA. I have heard the story I just described first-hand from Red Dog many times over the years, and he and Gregg Allman have both written about it in their respective autobiographical books. Brother Berry didn't have a mark on his head and yet he died in less than two hours after what even Red Dog thought was a very minor accident.

It would not have been a good idea for Zimmerman to have waited for the next slam against the concrete. Anyone who thinks the law demands that of any victim of a beating to the head, doesn't know the law, and definitely doesn't understand the phrase "deadly force." All of the evidence points to Zimmerman responding to deadly force with deadly force, period.

Blues

 

[BC1]

Howdy,

Di Maio is a paid "expert" witness. When you pay them they give you the respite you want.

They teach that in like Day 1 of law school.

A very old former ME from San Antonio. Wow! They went to a lot of trouble to find this guy.

It's funny how this "expert" witness for the defense, who never examined George or Martin is right and a dozen other professional who did examine George and Martin is wrong.

Sure

Paul

Don Henley? C'mon. Here's the rub...

Di Maio has written eight books and 88 peer-reviewed articles on gunshot wounds. He's performed over 9,000 autopsy's. You don't get that experience from a 35-year-old. He's world-known as the preeminent expert on the subject. The prosecution's ME even referenced his books during direct examination. I take exception that one is so slanted to think every expert witness has an agenda. This guy needs neither fame nor money. He isn't being bought.

 

[Rhino]

And I don't buy this theory that Zimmerman's head was being pounded into the sidewalk. If it had, he would've lost consciousness.

Thank you for proving what I said previously. You obviously know very little about head wounds. Although after this comment I should probably change "very little" to "extremely little" since you think everyone who gets hit in the head gets knocked out.

 

[Gallstones]

And I don't buy this theory that Zimmerman's head was being pounded into the sidewalk. If it had, he would've lost consciousness.

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Which could have happened, which may be why Zimmerman chose to do something to make it stop.

 

[BluesStringer]

I don't know where to find a video of it off the top of my head, but there was an after-hours series of hearings after the jury left for the day around 4:30 (EST) that I watched on a live stream, and man! The fireworks were flying at the end around 10:00 PM.

Seems the prosecution had a "bin file" from Trayvon's cell phone. I guess it's akin to a Windows Trash Bin, where deleted files go(?). Trayvon had installed an app that was a heavy-encryption, password-protected file protection piece of software. Oh, the software also hid the files so that only someone with the password could see or access the directory where the encrypted files were stored. They remained invisible without the password.

9,000+ texts and thousands of pictures were deleted from his phone, but after FDLE slaved over the task for almost a year, the password was cracked, or the encryption defeated, whatever, and the deleted files were made visible just as though they'd never been deleted. The texts included messages from Trayvon to multiple recipients to tell them about the amateur MMA fighting he'd gotten involved in, with one particular exchange having him explaining how he'd lost the first round of a fight because he screwed up and let the opponent mount him and he got his ass kicked pretty good without being in a good position to defend himself. Sound familiar? It gets better. He then went on to say that he came out in the second round and instead of squaring off against his opponent and working his way in with jabs and kicks, he charged the guy and landed a left hook right to his nose before the guy was set. This fight, or at least the texts, happened about two weeks before he went to Sanford with his pop. Seems he learned his first-round lesson well, and implemented his second-round strategy before he had to repeat another ass-kickin'.

So the fireworks come when West, of the defense team, wants the bulk of what they found in the bin file admitted into evidence and his expert certified to testify tomorrow (Wed.). West and Nelson (the judge) started verbally sparring over the legal details, which to this observer, it seemed West had the better argument, but Nelson basically recessed the court without warning and told everybody to be back at 8:00 in the morning over protestations from literally every lawyer in the room while West never broke cadence as he continued to deliver his argument. I thought an MMA fight was going to break out right then and there! HA!

If you're a serious court-watcher, you have to find the clip of about the last 15 minutes or half an hour of hearing arguments tonight. The last hour or so was very interesting as they revealed what all was in the bin file (tons of unrelated and some related stuff), but also the defense getting very animated in talking about the state's misconduct in not sharing the bin file with them until June 4th, while the pre-trial hearings were going on, and while they were prepping for jury selection, which combined to make it impossible for the defense to scrutinize the files, hire the right expert to present whatever they could glean from it to the jury, interview and call witnesses who were on the other end of the texts etc., all before the start of trial. The state had the file cracked in January. Apparently the judge had already made a date for after the end of the trial for a misconduct hearing on that issue against the state.

As much as I believe that this trial should have never happened, it has been both the most interesting train wreck and most interesting legal battles that I've seen in a long time.

Blues

 

[K7lvo]

The video is included in this link:

Link Removed

 

[Kramer1113]

Everyone who is to Lazy to read and or listen to the 911 Transcript continues to perpetuate an incorrect story.
I sat and listened to my own wife tell our Daughter the story... INCORRECTLY. Thank God the real Jury has the story and timeline in the correct order.
Today is Wednesday, July 10th. I look for a verdict tomorrow if it goes to the Jury today.

I feel Mr. Zimmerman will be vindicated.

 

[Sir Diealotz]

I don't know where to find a video of it off the top of my head, but there was an after-hours series of hearings after the jury left for the day around 4:30 (EST) that I watched on a live stream, and man! The fireworks were flying at the end around 10:00 PM.

Seems the prosecution had a "bin file" from Trayvon's cell phone. I guess it's akin to a Windows Trash Bin, where deleted files go(?). Trayvon had installed an app that was a heavy-encryption, password-protected file protection piece of software. Oh, the software also hid the files so that only someone with the password could see or access the directory where the encrypted files were stored. They remained invisible without the password.

9,000+ texts and thousands of pictures were deleted from his phone, but after FDLE slaved over the task for almost a year, the password was cracked, or the encryption defeated, whatever, and the deleted files were made visible just as though they'd never been deleted. The texts included messages from Trayvon to multiple recipients to tell them about the amateur MMA fighting he'd gotten involved in, with one particular exchange having him explaining how he'd lost the first round of a fight because he screwed up and let the opponent mount him and he got his ass kicked pretty good without being in a good position to defend himself. Sound familiar? It gets better. He then went on to say that he came out in the second round and instead of squaring off against his opponent and working his way in with jabs and kicks, he charged the guy and landed a left hook right to his nose before the guy was set. This fight, or at least the texts, happened about two weeks before he went to Sanford with his pop. Seems he learned his first-round lesson well, and implemented his second-round strategy before he had to repeat another ass-kickin'.

So the fireworks come when West, of the defense team, wants the bulk of what they found in the bin file admitted into evidence and his expert certified to testify tomorrow (Wed.). West and Nelson (the judge) started verbally sparring over the legal details, which to this observer, it seemed West had the better argument, but Nelson basically recessed the court without warning and told everybody to be back at 8:00 in the morning over protestations from literally every lawyer in the room while West never broke cadence as he continued to deliver his argument. I thought an MMA fight was going to break out right then and there! HA!

If you're a serious court-watcher, you have to find the clip of about the last 15 minutes or half an hour of hearing arguments tonight. The last hour or so was very interesting as they revealed what all was in the bin file (tons of unrelated and some related stuff), but also the defense getting very animated in talking about the state's misconduct in not sharing the bin file with them until June 4th, while the pre-trial hearings were going on, and while they were prepping for jury selection, which combined to make it impossible for the defense to scrutinize the files, hire the right expert to present whatever they could glean from it to the jury, interview and call witnesses who were on the other end of the texts etc., all before the start of trial. The state had the file cracked in January. Apparently the judge had already made a date for after the end of the trial for a misconduct hearing on that issue against the state.

As much as I believe that this trial should have never happened, it has been both the most interesting train wreck and most interesting legal battles that I've seen in a long time.

Blues

Interesting! Saw this on the news this morning. Of course the main stream media failed to mention the phone, deleted files or anything that would damage Little Skittles sweet boy street cred LOL

 

[Gettysburg Bill]

I have been watching the Zimmerman trial off & on.
It's going the way of Zimmerman and the Prosecution is helping.

You know the old saying -- "A drowning man will grab at staws to stay afloat"
That is what the Prosecuton is doing and its noticeable.
Unless something 'Powerful' come to light and to the jury-----Zimmerman is walking.

 

[recithree]

I also hope the text files are presented.on a slight tangent I am so hating on nancy grace and her statements on how dumb it is to carry a gun while walking your dog (or running to the grocery store).

 

[BluesStringer]

The video is included in this link:

Link Removed

Thanks man. I found another one that includes that segment, but it also shows more of the arguments leading up to Nelson's hissy fit. In this 16 minute clip, West reveals all the malfeasance going on by the prosecution over discovery issues, and the bin file seems to be at the heart of it.

Also this morning comes news from several sources that Tracy Martin (dad) and Trayvon have text message exchanges in that bin file discussing buying and selling guns. I haven't seen any transcripts yet, so I am withholding judgment at this point, because if Tracy is just talking about himself buying and selling with his 17 year old son, that doesn't seem significant to me. But if Tracy is discussing how Trayvon could go about acquiring a gun, or talking about how Trayvon could have a little black market enterprise buying and selling on the streets, to me, the defense should be able to show Martin's propensity for criminal and potentially violent behavior. Anyway, check out the link and decide for yourselves.

Blues

 

[tricolordad]

Just a point on head injuries. When I was in High School playing football, I received a concussion when having been tackled by two linebackers. One in front and one from the side. No blood and no swelling but there none the less. Didn't know where I was for awhile and had trouble seeing for a couple of days. You don't have to have blood running out your ears to have a severe head injury and/or loss of consciousness. And if I was in that position as GZ I would have been in fear of great bodily harm and if he kept on after I passed out, death.
Yeah, I would have shot him too.

Been there! I took a knee to the back of my helmet from a 300 lb tackle my junior year and couldn't even form words much less walk in a straight line. My coach put me back in after shining lights in my eyes for a few downs. Not sure what he was trying to do to me but I ended up in the hospital after the game. When I took my helmet off my head just bobbled and I couldn't even sit up.